What if one of the most important things we teach our kids is how to handle hurt…without hurting back?
In this episode, Wendy and Terry unpack revenge misbehavior, one of the four mistaken goals of behavior taught inside Fresh Start Family and featured in Chapter 12 of Fresh Start Your Family. They explore what revenge behavior looks like in everyday family life, hitting, biting, attitude, eye rolls, harsh words, and why it so often comes from a childโs deep sense of hurt, unfairness, or disrespect.
But this conversation goes deeper than parenting.
Wendy and Terry also draw a powerful parallel between the revenge cycles we see in homes and the same power-over, hurt-back patterns playing out in culture, leadership, and politics. When families are taught that force, fear, punishment, and humiliation are the way to control behavior, those same dynamics donโt stay in the home, they ripple outward into the world.
Inside this episode, youโll hear:
- What revenge misbehavior really is and how to spot it
- Why punishment keeps hurt cycles alive instead of ending them
- The role of humility in breaking revenge patterns
- How strong-willed kids often react to disrespect and hypocrisy
- Why the way we handle conflict at home shapes the future of our communities and world
If youโve ever wondered how to stop the hitting, attitude, or emotional jabs without becoming harsh or permissive, this episode will help you understand the root cause, respond with strength and compassion, and raise kids who know how to handle hurt in a different way.
Episode Highlights:
- Revenge misbehavior is rooted in hurt and perceived unfairness.
- Kids often hurt back when they feel disrespected, overpowered, or unseen.
- Punishment may control behavior for a moment, but it usually keeps the revenge cycle going.
- Humility helps parents step out of defensiveness and see their contribution to the dance.
- Looking for the root cause of hurt changes everything.
- Strong-willed kids are especially sensitive to hypocrisy, injustice, and power-over behavior.
- Teaching kids how to process hurt without hurting back is one of the greatest gifts we can give them.
- The way we handle conflict in our homes shapes the kind of leaders, citizens, and humans our kids become.
Resources Mentioned:
Looking at our contribution to the hurt IG reel
Unable to listen, or prefer to read along? Here’s the transcript!
Wendy:
Well, hey there, families, and welcome back to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family Show. We are so happy you are here today.
Today weโre going to talk about a certain category of misbehavior called revenge. Itโs one of the four categories of misbehavior that we teach here at Fresh Start Family, and it really empowers parents when they understand how to differentiate between their kidsโ imperfection as theyโre growing up.
One of the key categories of misbehavior we coach parents through day in and day out is revenge misbehavior. There is a certain step-by-step plan that we teach parents, and it is so effective and so beautiful. Thatโs what weโre going to talk about today.
So welcome to the show, Terry. So happy to have you here.
Terry:
So happy to be here. And yeah, this is such an interesting topic too because, like so many of these family, parenting, and relationship dynamic topics, they show up in the home, but you also see them all over the world and throughout history. So itโs just fascinating. Itโs a really cool subject.
And this is part of our series where Wendy is breaking out pieces from the Fresh Start Your Family book, so this is great. Youโll get a little insight into what the book is all about.
Wendy:
Yeah. And this particular topic that weโre talking about today is chapter 12.
Section three of the book is where weโre really helping you understand the root causes of your childโs misbehavior and really human misbehavior because, again, as Terry said, everything that we teach is really about human behavior. We just do it through the lens of parenting.
Chapter 12 is called Hurt People Hurt People, and I love this chapter. I have so many good stories in here, many, many good stories. I really put all of my personal stories out there in this book. There are still some, even to this day, where Iโll be coaching my community and Iโm like, โDang, I didnโt put that one in the book.โ There are only so many pages. I turned this book in way over, and they were like, โDude, youโve got to get rid of some pages.โ
But there are so many good stories in there. One of the stories I tell in this chapter, Hurt People Hurt People, that teaches parents how to redirect revenge misbehavior successfully so it actually ends instead of just going on and on and on through generations, is a story from Stellaโs kindergarten class.
Itโs one of my favorite stories ever because it perfectly represents what revenge cycles look like and the misconception so many humans have that this is just the way it is.
By the time Stella was in kindergarten, this was probably our second year of practicing positive parenting. I donโt even remember if I was certified by that point. I might not have been. But I was so passionate about all the things we had been learning.
We started this work when Stella was three. We were really in the shitter with parenting, just not knowing what to do. Then this work changed our lives. Her behavior started to really change once we started using these tools and strategies. We started changing the way we saw her and the way we felt capable of teaching her without the fear, force, bribery, rewards, and threats.
By that time I was pretty passionate about this, but Stella was still kind of getting in trouble every now and again. We were just getting our footing in this work.
Terry:
A lot of practice.
Wendy:
Yeah, lots of practice. And kindergarten year was really pivotal for us to start gaining our confidence.
We were learning all these strategies, maybe a few years deep by then, but we actually had to believe in ourselves enough to advocate for some things. One of them was that they were starting to come down on Stella. She was in the 63rd percentile for reading at the time. This was the beginning of there being more emerging data and research around how increased homework for children and extra pressure on young children does not equal more successful humans.
We had seen the documentary Race to Nowhere, which really changed our lives. I highly recommend it for every family. And we started advocating that we were not going to force our kid to do homework at night. We wanted her to be in trees, have healthy meals, and go to bed on time versus having tearful exchanges and power struggles where we forced her to finish homework packets and practice sight words.
So we advocated for that. We had the principal called on us, remember? We went to have a meeting with the teacher and the principal showed up, and we were like, โAre we in trouble?โ But we advocated for it.
And then fast forward, what was it, four or five years later?
Terry:
Yeah.
Wendy:
By the time Terrin was going through that same elementary school, they had no homework. Our younger son went all the way through, and by the time he was in fifth or sixth grade, there was no more homework. So we were ahead of the curve, but we had to really start stepping into believing in ourselves.
One of the ways I started to practice that was volunteering in the classroom. I remember we got word that Stella had been accused of being a bully. I was just learning to assume integrity in my kid. At the time I still had days where I was like, โCrap, she is a bully. What is wrong with my kid? What is wrong with me? Sheโs a bad kid.โ
But this work was teaching me, no, she is a leader. She is a strong-willed child. She is communicating. Misbehavior is just communication. What category of misbehavior are we working with here? Sheโs kinesthetic. She likes to use her hands a lot. She will advocate. She will use her voice. She will go for what she wants.
My teacher helped me and said, โDonโt just believe everything. Go in and see it for yourself. See whatโs happening in the classroom. See how Stella behaves. Be a helper.โ
So I started volunteering in the classroom. One day I had created this little exercise where it was like, โOkay guys, weโre going to practice a stop sign, or whatโs called a pause button.โ I teach this in section two of the Fresh Start Your Family book. We did this little craft and I said, โHey kids, Iโm going to teach you what your options are when someone does something hurtful or harmful and how you can respond in a way that respects yourself and others.โ
And Iโll never forget this little girl, this sweet little twin, this tiny blonde-haired girl with this little high voice. She shot her hand up and was like, โI know, I know, I know, I know, I know!โ
I said, โYes, tell me.โ
And she said, โItโs like when someone says your shoes are ugly, you look them right in the eyes and you say, โWell, your face is ugly.โโ
Then she just smiled and looked at me like she was waiting for me to praise her and be like, โYeah girl, thatโs how you donโt let anyone walk on you.โ
And I just said, โMy gosh, thank you for sharing that with me. That is one way. Iโm going to teach you a different way today.โ
You could tell she really thought that was the right answer. And this was not a trauma family. We knew the family very well. High-achieving, successful family. Yes, mom had a little anxiety, but they were โgoodโ parents. Yet culture had already gotten ahold of this little girl at five years old and taught her that if someone hurts you, you hurt them back, and you do it fast or youโre a pushover and weak.
Do you remember this moment at all? I tell this story all the time. Do you remember me coming home and sharing about it?
Terry:
Yeah, for sure. Itโs one of those things that you would normally just pass off and laugh about, but because of the context, because of where we were in our own journey and how curious we were about what was happening with Stella, we were watching all of these dynamics and behaviors differently.
And I remember thinking, โMy gosh, that is so interesting.โ It also made us think about the world as a whole and even grownups. Here was a kid doing that, but it made you pause and think about human nature.
Wendy:
Exactly, which weโre going to get to today because as of todayโs recording here in America, we are officially at war. We have invaded another country. So we are officially, in 2026, at war.
Weโre going to talk a little bit about the commonalities between any type of power-over system because they all have very common themes.
But what I want everyone to understand is that in the work we teach here within family units, we really help families understand that 99.9% of the time, when you handle hurtful and harmful behavior with a smack back, with a power-over structure, with a โNow Iโll show youโ type of response, and it includes hurt-back behavior, the cycle will keep going forever and ever and ever. It is exhausting.
I see it show up all the time in family lineages. As people get older, it turns into, โFine, I just wonโt be your sister anymore,โ and then they donโt talk for 17 years because โF you.โ Itโs this passive-aggressive way of hurting back. It is so deep in our society.
We as parents have such a beautiful opportunity to teach our children from a very young age that there is a different way to handle hurtful and harmful behavior.
So let me back up for a minute and talk about what revenge misbehavior actually is.
The four categories that we teach and really go into depth about in section three of the book, where we help you understand root causes, are power misbehavior, revenge misbehavior, inadequacy misbehavior, and attention misbehavior. Then we do add a fifth bonus category called significance. Itโs very tied to power misbehavior. A lot of power kids also have significance behavior.
But those are the four we go into deep detail about because if you have a moment where youโre like, โThis kid is not doing what I want,โ or โTheyโre misbehaving,โ or โIโm feeling triggered by them,โ if you try to handle all misbehavior with one thing like punishment or overpowering threats, youโll drive yourself crazy because you wonโt get long-term, sustainable results. The misbehavior wonโt actually end.
So we really teach you to educate yourself on what is happening within the child or human, because this all applies to grownups too. Then from there, the way you respond to the misbehavior puts you in a state of empowerment to actually get what you want, which is changed behavior.
Revenge misbehavior shows up as hitting, kicking, biting. One of the biggest stories I tell in the book, where I really got it wrong, involved you, Terry, and Terrin.
Terry:
Not Terry. Terrin.
Wendy:
Why are you so happy to point that out right now?
Terry:
Iโm often wrong, but she says Iโm never wrong.
Wendy:
Oh my gosh. Terry is the angel of our family all the time, but that one situation, we were in the beginning. Stella bit Terrin when he was 11 months old. She drew blood. I tell the whole story in the book. We tried our best to handle it using what we were learning about compassionate discipline, but we still dipped down into fear. We still had that โIโm going to scare the shit out of you so you never do this againโ energy.
It was a good learning moment. Stella still jokes that she has trauma from that day.
Point being, biting somebody can be power misbehavior, especially with really young toddlers, but most of the time it is revenge misbehavior. Itโs when someone isnโt doing what you want, when life feels unfair, when you feel hurt.
So revenge misbehavior looks like biting, hitting, kicking, pushing. It also looks like โI hate you,โ โYou suck,โ and we even have a lot of kids these days saying, โIโll kill you.โ That language has become so normalized in society that kids mimic culture.
The key thing to understand is that the root mistaken belief underneath revenge misbehavior is: When I feel hurt, I must hurt back, often because thatโs whatโs been modeled to me.
The core emotion associated with revenge misbehavior is hurt.
That shows up in a lot of kids when they feel like life is unfair, when their brother or sister is getting something theyโre not, when someone isnโt listening to them, when someone raises their voice at them, or when they feel disrespected. A lot of kids, especially strong-willed kids, will flare up and be like, โHell no,โ and hit back, yell back, or talk back.
Then the traditional cultural approach in autocratic or authoritarian parenting, which is what most of us were raised with, is basically this: if you talk back, roll your eyes, hit, kick, bite, whatever, you get the smackdown. You get grounded, put in timeout, your iPad gets taken away. Parents donโt know what else to do, so they punish.
Punishing is a way of saying, โI will hurt you back and make it sting so badly that you never F with me again.โ Thatโs what weโre talking about today. Revenge misbehavior and what you can do in your home to actually have it go away versus just putting a Band-Aid on it.
And I will say, we did learn a new way. That day with Stella biting her baby brother, we got it wrong. But years later, after learning and practicing, we got it more right.
Years later, I forget if I tell this exact story in the book, but Stella was probably around seven and Terrin was maybe four. We were walking out the door to go to the park. The kids have always been incredibly competitive. They got into a little argument and Stella shoved Terrin and he fell into the rose bushes and bloodied his fingers.
I love using these stories in the book to show where we started and what it looked like when we were doing the normal cultural thing, basically trying to scare a kid or make them feel awful enough that they would never do it again, versus what changed when we learned a new way.
That day, when she pushed him into the rose bush, we came back inside and did about 45 minutes of learning activity and compassionate discipline. It was so effective because I honestly canโt think of another day where things got physical like that after that season. It was the season where they really started changing and the physical aggression started to disappear.
Terry:
And we were able to do that at home, which is such a gift. Even though it doesnโt feel good to see your kids treating each other that way, home became the place where we practiced life so it wouldnโt show up elsewhere.
So not only did it start to stop happening between them, it also made it less likely to show up at school or out in the world. We were able to work with it at home, and that was really important.
Wendy:
Yeah. And I think that was also the season where I started really upping my self-awareness and self-compassion around my own reactive patterns.
By then, I had fully dissented from the belief that I was justified in aggression or power-over tactics, even though I still made mistakes. I write about many moments in the book where I still lost it. But I had stopped believing that it was necessary or good to overpower, hurt, or shame your children into submission.
You could feel the engine start to click once those things lined up. And when I did make a mistake and get aggressive or overpowering, I would make amends. I would come back and say, โHey, that was me, not you. This is not how we handle conflict.โ That is all part of it too.
We are all practicing. We are all in different stages of the game.
But as far as strategy goes, letโs talk about the two biggest things that parents miss when theyโre trying to redirect revenge misbehavior: the root cause of hurt and humility.
We teach a step-by-step process in section three of the book. One of those steps is compassionate discipline because teaching is essential. We are not just letting kids hit, kick, roll their eyes, say โI hate you,โ or treat people however they want. We are not permissive. We are setting firm boundaries, holding kids accountable, teaching important life lessons, and helping them build emotional literacy and strong boundaries.
But the biggest part of the process, I would say, is humility.
Without humility, it will not work.
I coach parents on this all day long, and often the step they miss is humility. The other one they miss is understanding the root cause of hurt. Those are the two biggest things, along with the actual teaching component.
Because a lot of parents will correct the misbehavior fast. Thatโs what the nervous system knows. You correct quickly, put the child in their place, make sure they know itโs not okay. But then you never teach a new way.
So it takes a lot of practice and coaching to say, โYeah, weโre going to revisit this tonight. Weโre going to spend a half hour on Saturday role-playing what it looks like to be really pissed at your brother and still make a different choice than pushing him into the rose bushes.โ
The hurt and humility steps are huge.
When it comes to hurt, I often tell parents that if you are wondering, โWhat is your deal? What is wrong with you?โ just look for perceived unfairness. Nine times out of ten, when you can find where a child feels like life is unfair, disrespected, or hurt, you will be able to apply these steps and help them learn a new way to process that pain.
And the strong-willed kid is notorious for this. They come out of their skin if they feel like injustice is happening. That is a God-given design. Other humans have their own incredible gifts, but strong-willed kids see injustice and they cannot go on if they donโt do something about it.
So if youโre fishing for the root cause of hurt, look there.
Then thereโs humility.
A lot of us were raised in homes where if you made a mistake, you got punished, shamed, or made to feel like a disappointment. So we grew into adults who get defensive. โNo, no, no, I didnโt do anything wrong.โ
But humility says: โItโs okay. You raised your voice. You used an annoyed tone. You took sides with the youngest. You created an ecosystem where your child feels hurt. Itโs okay. Youโre human. You donโt need to defend. Just look at where you contributed to the dance.โ
When you are willing to clean up your own behavior, your child starts to trust you more. And then theyโre much more likely to stop using revenge behavior because youโre showing them, โIโm learning too. Iโm not going to shame you while refusing to grow myself.โ
And I will say this too: for a strong-willed child, one of the biggest ways they feel hurt is when they feel overpowered. When they feel disrespected, talked down to, forced, threatened, or shoved into submission, it lands like a slap in the face.
So if you have any kind of model in your house, whether itโs you or your spouse, that still believes, โIโll just yank the iPad and make them know whoโs boss,โ Iโm telling you, for a strong-willed child, that is often the root of the hurt right there. They do not take that well.
What are your thoughts, Terry, hearing all of this strategy side of things?
Terry:
I think for me, it always comes back to intention. What is the North Star for your family? What is the thing youโre trying to protect or create?
When I think about revenge, it is this never-ending back and forth. Someone has to decide itโs going to stop somewhere.
And I think that was a big shift for me, realizing that I wasnโt just standing on the sidelines trying to manage my kidsโ behavior. I was actively participating in the dance. The way I reacted could either perpetuate the cycle or help course-correct it.
So for me, itโs really simple. At some point, you just have to decide youโre not going to keep the cycle going.
That doesnโt mean you get walked on. It doesnโt mean you become permissive. Actually, some of the most powerful and admirable people in history are the people who decided not to strike back, not to use violence, not to get revenge.
And once you really see that, you start to realize the people who only know revenge or only know violence actually have a very limited set of tools. That is the weakness, not the strength.
Wendy:
Yes. And one of the most relatable forms of revenge misbehavior for so many parents is attitude.
Yes, there are the big things, like hitting and kicking and biting and โI hate you.โ But there are also the quieter forms, eye-rolling, tone, attitude, contempt. Those are also revenge misbehaviors.
And I see a lot of parents dehumanize teens and tweens for that behavior without being willing to look at their own contribution. But if you slow down, take the blinders off, raise your self-awareness, and use the revenge misbehavior steps we teach, the attitude changes.
It does.
I will say, our kids call us out all the time when our tone is off.
Terry:
They do.
Wendy:
And itโs actually beautiful. Sometimes disarming, but usually accurate.
Terry:
Yeah, more often than not, theyโre spot on.
Wendy:
Kids are often very accurate. Culture teaches us not to trust that, but they really are.
I remember when Stella was around 12 or 13 and I was having one of my โteacher momโ moments, trying to coach her through her aggression toward her brother, and she just looked at me and said, โMom, how are we going to work on your aggression? Because you show up aggressively.โ
And I was like, โDang, child. You are bright.โ
But she was right. And thatโs part of this too. We are practicing. We are learning. We are making mistakes. We are repairing.
And one example of compassionate discipline that I think about a lot is the old attitude chart with Stella.
Terry:
Yeah.
Wendy:
Weโve had to work with attitude over and over again. And now with Terrin too, heโll have his classic teen attitude moments. Heโll act like he knows everything and I can feel myself getting annoyed.
But I can also feel how much better we are now at catching ourselves. Weโre much more likely to stop and say, โOkay, let me try that again,โ or โThat tone doesnโt work. Letโs reset.โ We still hold a strong boundary. We still ask him to try again. But we donโt have to go nuclear. Thatโs such a huge difference.
So I just want people to know that attitude is revenge misbehavior too, and it can be worked with beautifully.
Which brings us to the final piece of this conversation.
I wanted to record on this topic today because as of this recording, we are watching our country start dropping bombs again. We are officially at war. Multiple servicemen and women have already been killed. A childrenโs school has been bombed. And it is heartbreaking to me because this exact same mentality, this eye-for-an-eye, hurt-people-back-to-make-them-submit mentality, is playing out on the world stage.
At communion today, our pastor said something so beautiful. She invited us to think not only about the people who were there, but also the people who werenโt there, even the people we disagree with. And she told a story about an unhoused person she had to say no to that day because they were incredibly dysregulated. It was just this beautiful reminder that every single human has a story, a context, a nervous system, root causes.
And here we are again, watching the same old lie play out, that the way to influence people is through violence, dominance, force, and fear.
It breaks my heart because once you have seen another way, once you have built that in your home and watched it work, once you have watched children calm down and stop hurting each other because they are being taught and loved instead of shamed and overpowered, you canโt unsee it.
And yes, what you do in your home matters. What you support with your dollars matters. What you believe in matters.
We are spending hundreds of millions, probably billions, on bombs and war. Imagine if that same energy and money was invested into education, healing, support, empowerment, community, and leadership.
You were just listening to that podcast the other day, Terry, where they asked, โIf there was one thing you could do to change the world, what would it be?โ And the answer was education.
Terry:
Yeah. It was thought-provoking because money does show where your emphasis is. It shows where your heart is and what you believe is worth investing in.
And the idea was basically: what if you took all that energy, all that money, all that effort, and instead of putting it into bombs and violence and machines of destruction, you put it into education?
Because through education, you can start to right inequalities, generational inequalities. You can increase literacy, opportunity, discernment, confidence. You start helping people make better decisions. You start helping society rise together.
Iโm not anti-military. I have a lot of gratitude for the military and for the protections that many of us benefit from. But at some point, we have to ask ourselves, now what? What are we doing with what weโve been given?
And I just think itโs worth asking: at what point do we prioritize education over bombing other humans?
Wendy:
Yeah. And I think what I want everyone to understand is that we all get to advocate for a healthier, kinder, love-rooted world in our own ways.
And every single one of you who listens to us, trusts us, and implements this type of parenting in your home, you are part of that advocacy. You are part of creating a world that does not rely on violence, coercion, fear, and forced submission.
One of my favorite quotes from Martin Luther King Jr. is this:
โHate begets hate, violence begets violence, toughness begets a greater toughness. We must meet the forces of hate with the power of love. Our aim must never be to defeat or humiliate, โฆbut to win his friendship and understanding.โ
And thatโs exactly what weโre talking about here. To live in a world, and under leadership, that represents everything we donโt believe in, this idea that, โThis will fix it. Letโs use violence. Letโs come in and overpower. Letโs drop bombs,โ itโs just heartbreaking.
And so many people are like, โYep, thatโs what has to happen.โ But what you do in your home matters. What you support system-wise matters. And I want to say this too, what you pour into matters. Your dollars matter. What you contribute to matters.
Right now, Iโm sure weโve already spent hundreds of millions of dollars on this. By the end of this war, which could go on for a decade, weโll probably spend billions and billions and billions of dollars that could have been put into education and empowerment.
And that reminds me of the podcast you were listening to the other day, Terry, where someone said if we really want to change the world, what do we need to do? It was so spot on. Itโs just a choice. What are you going to believe in to help make the world a better place?
Terry:
Yeah. I mean, you said it. Everything goes back to money sometimes, but money does represent where your emphasis is, where your heart is, where your mind is.
And if you took all of that energy and all of that money and put it into education, that interview was between two musicians who were just people with ideas, but it was really thought-provoking because you think, what if you took all of that and put it into education?
The question they were asked was something like, โIf there was one thing you could do to change the course of the world or make the world a better place, what would it be?โ And the answer was to put the greatest emphasis on education.
Because through education, you can right inequalities, generational inequalities. Through people being more literate and more educated, theyโre more likely to understand things and not make certain mistakes, whether itโs crime, health decisions, or just the way they move through life. The list goes on and on.
If you keep doubling down and tripling down on education, all of these things start to melt away. Even the disparities between lower class and upper class start to shift, at least in terms of opportunity and understanding. There may always be people who earn more money than others, but the point is that if everybody is given access to a higher level of education and understanding, we rise as a society and as a world.
I think it was just really thought-provoking because, you know, โput your money where your mouth is,โ right? And as a country, we seem to spend more money on bombs and killing machines than almost anything else.
And Iโm not anti-military. I have a lot of gratitude for the military and for the protections that we receive, things that many countries do not get. I know there are so many freedoms weโre afforded. But then what do we do with that? At what point do we say, โOkay, we are safe, but now what?โ
Thatโs what feels so interesting to think about. At what point do we prioritize education over bombing other humans?
Wendy:
Yeah. I wanted to make sure everyone understood that again, Terry and I are just two people who have chosen to invest so much in the last 15 years in understanding human behavior, development, psychology, and peaceful conflict resolution. We love this conversation, so these are our opinions.
But it is wild to see how many people will justify violence, justify these ends as a means to an end, when itโs just one way of making people do what you want. It is just one way. It is just a choice.
And in my opinion, it is not an effective strategy, because long term it is not effective. We see it in parenting. We see it in countries. Empowering people, investing in their education, Iโve seen so many beautiful things talking about the brave women of Iran right now and the peaceful protesters. It is atrocious what has happened there.
But imagine if they were the ones being invested in. Imagine if they were empowered, educated, supported. Even the men in dictatorships or authoritarian regimes, imagine if they were poured into with education, connection-based firm and kind leadership, and endless peaceful conflict resolution tables that didnโt have a time limit where we all of a sudden decide, โWell, that didnโt work fast enough, so now weโre going to drop bombs.โ
I see this all the time in parenting. People are like, โI tried that, I tried that, I tried that,โ and then they go right back to, โNope, it didnโt work.โ And itโs like, dude, this is a long-term game. You have to stay in it. You have to fully dissent from the belief that violence and power-over works.
Imagine hundreds of billions of dollars invested into education and the empowerment of people who are already standing up and saying, โWe need help.โ But instead, we believe the lie that violence and power-over are going to do the trick, and it never does.
One thing Iโve discovered is that progress and peace usually involve having to sit in an uncomfortable situation. You might be uncomfortable connecting with your child at home or with people in the world who donโt look like you or agree with you. But it takes getting yourself into that discomfort and not fleeing to force.
Terry:
Yeah. And thatโs what I would say too. Progress and peace usually involve discomfort.
You might be a little uncomfortable in the moment, whether itโs at home with your kid or on the macro level with people you disagree with. But if you donโt have the patience to work through that discomfort, then you just keep perpetuating the cycle.
And I think thatโs where people fall short as parents and as people on the world stage. Thereโs this attitude of, โI need this fixed now. I need immediate obedience now. I need immediate compliance now.โ
Thatโs the same thing in parenting when people say, โThat takes forever. I donโt have time for a half hour talk or role play. I need this fixed now.โ But I would make the point that when you choose the shortcut, when you choose power-over, when you choose revenge, you are actually choosing something that could last decades, centuries even, because youโre just creating more hate and more division.
Until somebody sits down and goes through the uncomfortable connection period, and does not give up, things just keep going. Thatโs why itโs called a revenge cycle. Itโs a cycle. Somebody has to get off of it.
So I think my thing on this subject is, will you be the person to get off the cycle? Will you be the person to say, โItโs going to stop with me and Iโm going to do it a different wayโ? It takes bravery. It takes education. But it also just takes the love thatโs already in your heart.
Wendy:
Yeah. Use that as your inspiration. Use the hope for the relationship that you have on the other side of all of this as your motivation.
It is such a feeling of power when you do not force someone into submission, but instead influence them and effectively create a win-win solution after having peaceful conflict resolution. It is one of the most powerful feelings in the world.
We see it all the time with our kids. You make it through one of those moments, and then suddenly the siblings who were just clawing at each other, smacking each other, saying, โI hate you,โ are high-fiving, hugging, and running off to play. Itโs like the movie Step Brothers. They become best friends again.
It is so empowering when you realize that as a human being, you do not have to force someone into submission to influence them.
So to piggyback on your final thoughts there, Terry, my parting thought is this: the humility it takes to look in the mirror matters so much.
When you are justifying power-over, hurting back, and often violence toward someone who is having behavior that you do not realize you have the exact same behavior around, it is just going to perpetuate the cycle.
Right now, we are dropping bombs on a nation because they are killing protesters, silencing media, using control and force. And itโs like, are we looking in the mirror? We are doing the same exact thing. Then people get into this hierarchy of, โWell, they do it more,โ or โThey do it on a bigger scale.โ But it is the same exact mentality.
So for me, humility is such a strength. Mother Teresa talked about this so much. Humility can change the world. It is such a strength to look in the mirror and say, โLetโs clean up our own actions. Letโs talk about our own contribution to the dance. Letโs create relationships where we heal, build trust and unity, and educate people that their behavior is not who they truly are when they were designed in the image of God.โ
If we invested in that, then 100 years from now our grandkids and great-grandkids would have a better place to live. But itโs going to take enough people speaking up and saying, โI do not adhere to that model. I donโt support that with my tax dollars, with my votes, or with my parenting.โ
I support a model that creates true, sustainable change and influence over human souls. And that is always going to be through relationship, connection, love, and firm kindness.
Awesome, babe. Thank you for having this very deep conversation. You did marry a deep person.
Iโve been saying lately that I love the way my brain has evolved. We have 150 lessons inside the Fresh Start Experience. This book, Fresh Start Your Family, is the how-to on how to get your kids to sit still at the dinner table, put their shoes on, do their homework, clean up their rooms without arguing, and how to actually like your kid again after wishing they were different. All the how-to is there.
But I really am evolving into a season where I want to talk about the deeper effects of adhering to any type of autocratic, authoritarian system and the joy of dissenting from that. And I think it ripples from our home out into the world.
As Mother Teresa said, โIf you want world peace, go home and start with your family first.โ We can talk about strategy all day long, but talking about how it ripples into the world is one of my favorite things to do these days.
So thanks for doing it with me, babe.
Terry:
I love you.
Wendy:
I love you.
And listeners, go grab the book at freshstartfamilyonline.com/preorder. It drops on May 19th, but right now when you pre-order, you get all the bonuses.
Section three goes through everything we talked about today, all the stories from our years of redirecting revenge misbehavior. Sometimes we got it wrong. Then we learned to get it more right. But there are so many great bonuses that you are going to love if you pre-order, and you wonโt get charged until May 19th.
So thank you for supporting us here at Fresh Start Family. We love doing these episodes for you, and we hope that youโve been blessed today.
