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In this exciting episode of the Fresh Start Family Show, Wendy Snyder teams up with the insightful Dr. Tracy Dalgleish to dig into a topic close to every parentโs heart: keeping romance alive and building a partnership that strengthens the whole family. Wendy and Dr. Tracy dive deep into the powerful impact a thriving relationship can have on parentingโespecially when raising spirited, strong-willed kids. Together, they expose the everyday traps that can turn partners into roommates and share real-life tips for sparking that connection back to life.
This conversation is packed with aha moments, offering couples fresh ways to bring more intention into their relationships. Wendy and Dr. Tracy tackle the art of everyday rituals, why setting digital boundaries can save relationships, and how to communicate in a way that nurtures rather than drains. With Dr. Tracyโs unique blend of research-based expertise and personal parenting experience, they break down small but powerful changes that lead to deep, lasting connection, helping parents show up as a team not only for each other but for their kids, too. Get ready to feel inspired and empowered to make simple shifts that can reshape your relationship and family life for the better!
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Episode Highlights:
- Daily Rituals Can Foster Connection: Implementing small, everyday rituals can help maintain and grow emotional intimacy between partners.
- Limit Phone Time for Better Bonding: Managing digital distractions is key to enhancing communication and presence with your partner.
- Regular Dates Revitalize Relationships: Scheduling regular dates, even without leaving the house, can keep the spark alive and strengthen your bond.
- Share Dreams and Passions: Open communication about dreams and passions can deepen understanding and nurture the partnership.
- Schedule and Redefine Intimacy: Planning intimate time and redefining intimacy beyond just physical interaction can enhance closeness and relational satisfaction.
Resources Mentioned:
Follow Dr. Tracy on Instagram
Dr. Tracyโs IG Reel on this topic
Don’t miss her book I Didnโt Sign Up for This: A Couples Therapist Shares Real-Life Stories of Breaking Patterns and Finding Joy in Relationships . . . Including Her Own
Dr. Tracy’s podcast I’m Not Your Shrink
Dr. Tracys’s Website
Catch this episode on YouTube!
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Not able to listen or prefer to read along? Here’s the transcript!
0:00:03 – (Wendy): Well, hey there, families. Welcome to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family show. I am thrilled to be here today with Doctor Tracy Dalgleish, and we are going to be talking all about how we can really kind of reclaim our romance in our partnerships, how we can strengthen our partnerships and our parenting, and how it all is so interconnected if we want to be able to parent in a way that is really strong and impactful. So welcome to the show, Doctor Tracy. We’re so happy to have you here.
0:00:35 – (Dr. Tracy): Thank you, Wendy. I’m so thrilled to be sitting with you and also to be part of, to be brought into your community. It’s such a gift to be able to be in this role and also to know all of the people that you’re reaching and supporting.
0:00:49 – (Wendy): Oh, well, I am kind of like fangirling right now in a big way because I love your work. You have such a beautiful knack for being able to inspire and drop little nuggets of very impactful information when it comes to strengthening relationships, especially over on instagram, which is where I found you. And your perspective and the work you do is just absolutely beautiful. So it really is an honor to have you here. And the reason why I wanted to have you on the show is because I think when it comes to parenting, and especially the parents we support, which are often doing kind of a 180 in their parenting walk, so they might come into parenting thinking that they’re just, you know, it’s gonna be kind of not that hard, right? You just put a kid in time out if you need to show them who’s boss and if they need some punishment here and there, and then they get handed a beautiful, strong willed child, and then they realize all the autocratic b’s overpowering tactics don’t work well to influence strong willed kids. And living in a constant state of having to intimidate small human souls is exhausting, and it will wreck your marriage.
0:02:03 – (Wendy): And then on top of that, not being on the same page when it comes to compassionate discipline or how to make this said little strong willed child get in the car or put on their shoes. We just see marriages get into a place or partnerships get into a place where it gets really rocky. And then all of a sudden, not only are you kind of arguing about things or not seeing eye to eye, but many of couples that we help in our programs, they’ve been together for a long time, like Terry and I have been together.
0:02:35 – (Wendy): This was our 30th Valentine’s Day. Married 22 years. And over time, it can just be so easy to fall into this, like, rut of almost roommate like existence, and then disconnection builds and then it’s harder and harder to get on the same page. So when I first found your work, Doctor Tracy, I was just, like, thrilled to have you. Come on, talk about relationships, how we can strengthen them, and really how it goes hand in hand with feeling very empowered and confident to work as a team, as parents.
0:03:06 – (Wendy): But before we get going on our topic, will you tell us just a little bit more about you and your story and how you got to where you are today and why you’re so passionate about what you teach and how you help couples?
0:03:18 – (Dr. Tracy): Yes, of course. And let’s just even anchor into the idea of not being on the same page. And that would definitely describe our own journey, my journey into parenthood, where, like most of people who show up into my office, who are part of my community, we didn’t talk about what kind of parents are we going to be, what roles are we going to play when it comes to navigating the mental load? How do we want to manage big feelings with our kids?
0:03:51 – (Dr. Tracy): Like most people, despite me being a couples therapist, we didn’t have those conversations. Right. Our society, our teachings, our education doesn’t set parents up for success in that way, nor do they set our relationships up for success. Most parents struggle to continue to feel connected and close after having kids. And we know that from the research that two out of three couples will experience a significant decline in their satisfaction in their relationship after having a baby. And, you know, many of those couples, that will change in the first year without intervention.
0:04:25 – (Dr. Tracy): Some, it will change after the third year, and then others really stay stuck in that. So I’m a psychologist and couples therapist up in Ottawa, Canada, and I have two young children. And I used to say that getting my PhD was the hardest thing that I would ever do until I became a parent. And that, I mean, that was also the underpinnings of writing my book. I didn’t sign up for this because here I was also saying the very same things my clients were saying.
0:04:56 – (Dr. Tracy): I didn’t sign up for this. I didn’t sign up to be the shepherd parent. I didn’t sign up to have this weight of resentment towards my husband or to feel like we’re roommates. It is incredibly difficult. And so while in my office, I show up as the therapist, as a couples therapist, I show up in my online community as also human because I’ve been a human a lot longer than I’ve been a therapist. And I can go home and feel all the same things that my clients do.
0:05:26 – (Dr. Tracy): And I think it’s, you know, Wendy, I think something that we’re really shifting into today is removing the veil that experts have it all figured out and that we all have this common humanity of we don’t get out of this hard stuff. So in the depths of the canadian winter after my second was born, I said to myself, I’m dissatisfied with how relationships are being talked about in the general media. Instagram was taking off, and I was one of the earlier therapists on Instagram starting to share more about motherhood and relationships.
0:06:03 – (Dr. Tracy): And my value was just to continue to reach more people outside of my office, because I know as parents to young children, the last thing you have is time to necessarily get to couples therapy, or maybe your partner’s not interested or the financial piece is not there. And I just really wanted more people to have the skills and tools that I teach every single day and to make it more accessible. So that’s. That’s part of my work. I’m still a clinician here in Ottawa. I own my own mental health clinic.
0:06:30 – (Dr. Tracy): I do supervision with other clinicians. I’m a mom. I’m a wife. I have a dog that bosses me around.
0:06:39 – (Wendy): And you’re an author and a podcaster, right?
0:06:41 – (Dr. Tracy): And an author and a podcaster. Those two things. Gosh, yes. My book came out last year. You can get it anywhere you get books. And it’s just been a joy to see how people needed to hear the everyday stories of what it means to be in relation with another person. And so, in the book, I take you through different couples in my therapy room who all ended up saying the same thing. I didn’t sign up for this.
0:07:08 – (Dr. Tracy): And throughout the book, I teach them how to build interdependence, which ultimately is what I’m trying to do in all of my communities online.
0:07:16 – (Wendy): Oh, amazing. And, yeah, you talk about building all that and then children and then entrepreneurship, I’m sure is in your bucket, right? Of, like, I don’t know if you agree, but childrening parenting turned out for me once my kids were toddlers, especially my strong willed one. Holy smokes. Hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. And then entrepreneurship is like my new baby that I’m like, oh, my gosh, this is so intense. Like, building, like, everything you mentioned, putting that all under the umbrella of doctor Tracy Dalgleish. You know, it’s just, like, a lot.
0:07:51 – (Dr. Tracy): And I think we don’t necessarily talk about the a lot part. And so I know, many people come to me and say, wow, you’re doing all these things. How do you do it all? I don’t do it all. I’m not there doing school pickup every day. And that’s something that I’ve accepted that in order for me to write the book, I wasn’t able to do the pickup and drop off every single day. My husband is also in business with me, so I’m not doing this all on my own. Right. You need a team.
0:08:18 – (Dr. Tracy): And also, then we have to work on our marriage in terms of, do you really need to talk about business at 930 at night? Or can we box this up and we’ll come back to it at our meeting? But you know all of those things. So I do. I do want listeners to know that when you see people doing this stuff, it’s not just easy and happening overnight. I like to remind people, I started my website in 2018, and I started the podcast in 2019, and then I did my membership space in 2020. And, you know, we grow and evolve and stretch over time. It takes time.
0:08:51 – (Wendy): Yes. And how cool to hear that your husband is now in that with you. What a. What a beautiful, beautiful thing. So amazing. All right, well, very cool. And how old are your kids now, Tracy?
0:09:06 – (Dr. Tracy): Yep. They’re nine and six. Well, eight and six.
0:09:09 – (Wendy): Nice. I know. Sometimes you have to think about that, right?
0:09:11 – (Dr. Tracy): You’re like, I know. Yes. And one of my kids is a deep feeler, a highly sensitive one. And so one of the things I also talk about with people in my community is just how difficult it is to parent two different children where with the one, it works, the traditional strategies are great, and we’re moving forward. And then the other one, it’s a complete mindset shift. And of course, me being therapist, I go into the feelings, wow, that must be really hard. Tell me how you’re feeling.
0:09:42 – (Dr. Tracy): Runs down the hall, slams the door. And so what works for one doesn’t work for the other. And that alone can also be a stressor on our marriage.
0:09:50 – (Wendy): It really can. Right? I think I saw. Did you have my friend Mary Van Geffen on the show?
0:09:55 – (Dr. Tracy): Is that you? Yeah.
0:09:57 – (Wendy): Yeah. So it sounds like that big feeler. You identify like it’s there. They’re in that camp, right? Like I. In our work, I have a tendency to specialize in helping families with strong willed kids because it’s like they’re the ones that usually bring us to our knees. They’re the ones who cause us to usually say, oh, I’m willing to get support. Like, I’m willing to step into the land of healing. And they’re just, they’re like these little angels that don’t present as angels necessarily, like, in the physical world realm, but they really do call so many people into, like, deeper healing and letting go of our egos and our prides and all the things. But I can. So I get you on that because my oldest, who’s 16, is my strong willed, powerhouse, beautiful little girl who I found this work when she was three, and just, I would never be a teacher without her.
0:10:47 – (Wendy): And then my little guy is more just the easy going. Like, you know, I was cracking up this last weekend. We were in big bear skiing. And whether it’s like, the music we’re listening to or just like, what lift we’re going to go on, it’s like, you know, three, about three times I can be like, come on. Like, he’ll say, no. And then I’ll say, well, we could do that. You know, come on, it’ll be fun. And then maybe twice. And then the third time he’s like, okay, fine.
0:11:08 – (Wendy): Stella is like, no, it is holding the ground, like, in order to really meet in the middle or get her to go turn the music to a different one or go on a different lift. Like, you are in intense. Like it is. It’s just so interesting how different they are. So. And it’s kind of fun sometimes, too, because you get to see, like, oh, this is really just a lot of natural design within them is perfect, but it’s just so different.
0:11:36 – (Wendy): Very cool. All right, well, when it comes to romance with our partners and strengthening our partnership, which, again, I see so much with my students, the stronger their partnership is, the more intimate, intimately connected, and I just able to communicate and be present with each other, the stronger they are, the easier the parenting is not necessarily in the realm of, like, things are going to be perfect with your kid or compassionate discipline when you’re shifting out of punishment is going to be easy peasy, but just more able to move through the uncomfortable moments and experience radical, positive change in homes, which, again, a lot of our parents are doing this shift.
0:12:23 – (Wendy): We have a lot of parents come from religious trauma backgrounds where they were taught in their religion to, like, literally hurt and harm their children, and that was godly. And then they learned this different way, and they’re just like, wow. To change into from an autocratic parenting model into a firm and kind, connection based, relationship based model is just intense. And when you can be really united as a team, it’s just.
0:12:46 – (Wendy): And the reality is, is a lot of people aren’t. So. But. But what I see is, like, we get. I’ve been together with my husband now, so we just celebrated our 30th Valentine’s Day and been together 22 years. And when I first found you, Tracy, you had shared something around how easy it is to fall into, like, almost like a roommate type relationship, where you’re just going through the motions, which there are a lot when you are a parent and you have just all these things. Right. Happening, and you just fall into these motions and, like, roommate life. And so we’re going to kind of talk today about how do we get out of that?
0:13:23 – (Wendy): And you have some. Some key points that will help us. But number one you had shared when I found you was implement daily rituals and tell us what this means and how this can help us get, like, back to this connected state as parents, as partners.
0:13:39 – (Dr. Tracy): Yeah. So, Wendy, let’s even back up and talk about why does the roommate season take over? And so many people resonated with this. I run a challenge where it’s ten days. I know ten days is not enough to fix it, but it’s enough to get you into a momentum to make a shift. And it’s powerful neat to hear people say, wow, I made this small shift, and I felt closer afterwards. And so the root, the roommate feeling, is transactions have taken over your relationship, which we know that parents, on average, spend less than 30 minutes a week talking about deeper issues.
0:14:15 – (Dr. Tracy): Most of the time, it’s transactions. And so we lose them. That deepening of our emotional connection. So when we lose in the, we lose the deepening of our emotional connection. What goes with that? Well, we also lose the physical connection and the sexual connection. And so then we become two ships passing in the night. Or the other image I really like is one parent feels like they’re driving the ship all on their own and they feel alone.
0:14:37 – (Dr. Tracy): Their partner’s on board, but they’re down below deck. And so it’s like, I’m doing this all on my own. Where are you? Am I even with you? Or do you want to be in this with me? And a lot of this comes down to those core attachment needs of, do I matter to you? Am I important? Am I adequate? Am I enough for you? And so when we stop being able to meet those needs, we still get stuck in those negative cycles. And then that wedge between us just starts to grow.
0:15:06 – (Dr. Tracy): And a common thing that shows up with people is because our children at one point are so dependent, they need so much from us, and we stop then giving the little pieces into our relationship. And one of the mistakes, we think, is in order to get out of this stuck place that we are, we need some big granddad gesture. Oh, we can’t go for the date night. Can’t get the babysitter. We don’t have the village. We can’t take a week away.
0:15:32 – (Dr. Tracy): And so we get stuck in that all or nothing thinking. And instead, what I encourage people to do is to go back and ask yourself, what were those things that you did in the early stages of your relationship that brought you together? And those are those rituals. Those are the small things. Frequently, I bet you greeted each other in the morning. So many people go to their phones when they first wake up. Oh, turn the arm off, pick up the phone, and then we start to scroll. Well, at that point, you have just allowed the entire worlds of stuff to come into your mind rather than the person beside you.
0:16:07 – (Dr. Tracy): And that’s something so small and simple that we can do another ritual. Did you pour your partner coffee? Did you greet them at the door? There are all of these beautiful things that you had in place that it’s about asking yourself, how can we go back to those and start bringing them back into our relationship?
0:16:24 – (Wendy): Oh, so good. I have a feeling as we talk about all these, I’m going to be like, uh oh, I do that. I do that, I do that.
0:16:31 – (Dr. Tracy): And that’s the thing, Wendy, too, is, you know, we do. And that’s one of the things I love about the little snippets I share on Instagram is they’re just these small little windows into the bigger picture of what I teach people. And when we can see that small little window and be open to it. What did I talk about yesterday? I talked about initiations, and that’s a hard one, because people will say, well, why do I have to initiate all the time? And if they’re not initiating hugs and comfort and coming close to me, do they even love me? And, you know, breaking that open, I think, can be really helpful, but also appreciating. We’re all human.
0:17:02 – (Dr. Tracy): We all get stuck at times. And it is really. This is one of the easiest things. Our relationships feel safe and solid, and so we slide away from each other a little bit. And it’s just that remembering that each day you have a choice, and the choice is to grow your tree branches together. That’s what you need to choose every single day. And it doesn’t have to be some grand gesture and some big date night.
0:17:28 – (Dr. Tracy): It’s that when my partner says, I told this story recently. I love this one. When your partner says something silly or mundane about the day, do you go, oh, yeah, that’s nice. And you look away, or do you say, tell me more about that. What’s going on for you right now?
0:17:42 – (Wendy): I saw that reel. You did? I was like, huh? Yes. I need to do that more. And I’m laughing thinking about it, too. My own relationship is because I always have this thought of how funny it is, how when you were first dating, I think back to 1994 was when Terry and I first started dating. But, like, how, like, and we moved to California together in 1995, literally across country from Maryland, became roommates at that time, like, fell madly in love, deep, fast. It was incredible. Very young, and.
0:18:13 – (Wendy): But I just remember, like, how in the morning you were never, like, concerned with how you look or your breasts. Like, it was just never a thing. And then as you go along, you get, like, more and more like. And my husband is a type who, like, loves hugs. He, like, loves to slow down and connect. And I think I might have seen you post something, too, about how you’ll watch your husband sometimes just, like, make breakfast and eat an egg.
0:18:38 – (Wendy): And then you’re, like, doing 10,000 things at once. And I’m like, oh, gosh, that’s so me. But I’m like, that would serve us so well and be so connecting to just stop and hug him first thing in the morning. I’m, like, thinking about my thoughts of, like, oh, my gosh, I look crazy. I need to brush my hair. And I’m, like, thinking now, no, I don’t. It’s like, they don’t care. It’s the connection that they are looking for.
0:19:03 – (Wendy): And that was. I know that was just one of your points, but it just got me to thinking of some of the. Sometimes it’s a little bit of the silly things you have to walk yourself off the ledge, right. Of. Like, it’s. We develop these thought patterns that it matters so much, but, like, really, it doesn’t. You know, like, a hug, when your hair is in the crazy bun and coming out the sides is fine, no one’s looking. Like, even if they were, it doesn’t matter, right?
0:19:28 – (Dr. Tracy): Let me even add to that, because I know what a busy parent will say. A hug. I don’t have time for a hug. I have a hundred things on my to do list. I need to get going. There’s no time for a hug. But if we understood that that hug is actually a way of grounding ourselves and centering into connection, a 32nd hug releases oxytocin. A six second kiss releases oxytocin. That chemical in our brain is a bonding feel good hormone. That’s the same hormone that’s released when we’re feeding baby.
0:19:58 – (Dr. Tracy): We need that with our partner. And when we can experience that with them, we feel more grounded and calm and connected. When we feel secure and close with our partners, we are more resilient to the stressors in our everyday life.
0:20:14 – (Wendy): Amen. Yes. So it’s like where the science meets the resistance. Like, you’re like, let’s look at the science. Like this is, you know, so many parents are like, why am I so stressed out? And why is my nervous system so rattled? And why does misbehavior get me so fired up? And it’s like, well, here’s one way, just one way that we can really settle ourselves first thing in the morning to set the tone for the rest of the day. So boom, I’m on it. Okay, number two, let’s talk about limiting phone time, which, holy smokes, doctor tracy.
0:20:47 – (Wendy): I am watching the world develop right now. And I’m like, what is happening to us? What is happening? And our kids, like, I have two teenagers now and we, hallelujah. We’re able to wait till high school to give them a phone even though there was so much resistance. And nobody in the world in southern California does that. Like the rainbow universe.
0:21:07 – (Dr. Tracy): I love that you were able to do that.
0:21:09 – (Wendy): Oh, my gosh, it’s intense.
0:21:10 – (Dr. Tracy): So important for their brain. I know we’ve already had those conversations with our kids. They know they’re not going to get phones until they’re 16.
0:21:18 – (Wendy): Good. Yep. You do it very early and you just let them know and then you stay the course and you hold space for the conversations. But it is intense, at least here in Southern California, literally, people look at you like you’re crazy when you’re kids in like 8th grade and you know, the coach is like, okay, everybody, I’ll text you when you’re coming back. And you’re like, coach member. I mean, now, my kids, my kids always had like a true me or a gab device, which was like just text, text and phone only.
0:21:42 – (Wendy): But still, it’s just wild to me what’s happening in our world. And it sure feels like I am able to see, like I almost can vision. Like our brain. I can see our brains changing. So the limiting of the phone time, it is becoming, I think, one of the biggest difficulties in marriages and parenting and all the things. So tell us your thoughts on this how can we get a hold of this and retrain our brain to feel good in different ways? Then I think we’re getting those dopamine hits from these phones, right? Like, tell us what’s happening.
0:22:19 – (Dr. Tracy): The fast acting dopamine hits. And we need to understand, and I said this to a parent recently working with them, because they’re like, my kid’s addicted to the screen. And I said, no, the system is rigged. It is rigged for us to feel that, that we have to be on it, that we need to be on it. And then we, as our fully formed adult brains, we also then need to start putting in systems in place. And we can do that, but it’s also really hard. And so we are all going to struggle with this because of how the system is set up.
0:22:49 – (Dr. Tracy): Instagram designed to keep you on it, right? Pinterest, all of that, all the games. The Snapchat. Gosh, the Snapchat. Actually, we won’t go down the rabbit hole. I’m not on it, but I’ve just heard of, like, how it feels like if you’re not on it, you’re going to miss out. But remembering, and I talk about this with my kids, too, already. At this stage, when we do the things face to face, we go, we’re a ski family, so we go skiing.
0:23:11 – (Dr. Tracy): When we go and do those moments, we’ve got this deep sense of connection. It’s inside of us. It stays with us. It lasts longer, it boosts our mood. We go out for walks before, after dinner, we throw the football. Like, you know, we do that. And that’s this longer lasting, feel good chemical in our brain. It’s also the soul. Nurture, nurturing. Like, I’m pointing to my gut, right? Like, this is where we feel it.
0:23:36 – (Dr. Tracy): And so even being able to label that and talk about it, even with our partner partners, is so important. And then what we need to do is how do we create systems inside our home that’s going to help us limit that screen time? I want to highlight something here if we have our phone. So I’m going to pick up my phone and I’m going to keep talking to you, Wendy, and, you know, right now, I’m going to tell you about how important it is that we put our phones away. And, you know, the challenge with today, and, like, over time, though, my face is not even looking at you, and so I don’t have feedback from you and what’s happening in your world. And I need that. We have those mirror neurons that reflect each other back. Are we connected?
0:24:11 – (Dr. Tracy): Are we feeling close? Are we on the same page? But when my phone is open and you’re trying to talk to me, it says that whatever is on my phone is more important than what you have to say. And like, let’s just sink into that in terms of that being a daily existence in our relationship. In fact, I would argue that some people have even become numb to that feeling, and then we don’t feel it anymore. So a really simple thing to do is you and your partner today saying, hey, you know what?
0:24:41 – (Dr. Tracy): We so don’t point to the you. Right. We like that soft startup. We can use the Gottman strategy there. Soft startup. We’re struggling with something, and I really want us to take a look at this. Can we take a moment to speak about it? I’m not going to blame you, I’m not going to say this is your fault, but we are stuck on our phones. Oh, everybody. We go out to dinners and we see people doing it, and I don’t think that’s really working for us. I miss us speaking, connecting and being close.
0:25:11 – (Dr. Tracy): What would you think about finding a time during the day where we could put our phones away and notice in there? I’m not saying you never, always, you must, you have to. I’m asking my partner to come on board and collaborate with me here and let’s find a way that’s going to work for both of, of us. So if you, if you come in saying from now on this day forward, no phones between five to seven, guess what?
0:25:35 – (Dr. Tracy): Your partner’s autonomy feels threatened and you know what they’re going to do? What? No, that’s ridiculous. Why would I do that? I have to be on my phone. What’s wrong with you? Right? No. When we go in being collaborative, then they feel like they have a choice in there as well. And so going in, soft startup, really important, we emphasizing connection and then finding that way of how are we going to limit it together?
0:25:58 – (Dr. Tracy): Is it about taking the first ten minutes of the day where you don’t go on your phones and you connect together? That’s really powerful. Ending your days off of screens, having a ten minute check in, or maybe it’s around dinner time. So between 530 to seven, put your phones in another room, make it harder to access.
0:26:17 – (Wendy): So good. Yeah. And I love, I’m gonna like, listen to this again once it comes out, to just be able to help my kids understand too. So good. I mean, because my kids tell me often, like, mom, what is the big deal? Like, why? What is the big deal? Like, you know, because my little guy is 13, so he’s obviously doesn’t have a phone yet. And he also wants these apps, these social media apps. His, I don’t think his true Mephone will even let you. It won’t let you, but he just desperately wants these apps. I think the one that he was asking me lately was like, discord and then also, like, all these things. But anyways, it’s intense as a parent to help them understand that, like, you called it a longer lasting, soul nurturing feeling because to them, the connection, because they’ve never known anything different for the most part. I mean, they’re kids, but it’s like they don’t quite understand what the, what the problem is when they think this is connection, right? Like, they think if you’re texting someone and it’s like, what’s the big deal? If you’re scrolling TikTok for an hour, like, what’s the biggest, that’s connection, that’s fun, that feels good in your body and trying to describe to them, well, it’s like a false feel good.
0:27:31 – (Wendy): It’s like, it is a feel good, but it’s like, you mentioned the skiing and the being, like, we just came off the mountains together and my little girl, who’s 16 and she’s my cactus kid, she can be hard edged. She was so sweet and soft and connected with us when we got home on Monday night, and I was like, I noticed. I was like, wow, that was really cool because we were on the mountain for days together off of these devices, and I can just picture even just last night. Terry’s been doing some extra work lately and, you know, just having him be on his device at night, definitely I could feel the, like, disconnection. But in order to, like, to express that both to your spouse and your kids is an art and to do it in a way that will help them understand.
0:28:16 – (Wendy): And then I just love the, like, we.
0:28:18 – (Dr. Tracy): That’s so.
0:28:19 – (Wendy): And I miss, like, I miss the connection I feel when we’re together instead of the blame because I know my 16 year old, now that she does have the phone, can get really defensive about it. And so just bringing in that soft startup is awesome.
0:28:34 – (Dr. Tracy): I love the idea of in the moment processing. So I think what we tend to be really good at as parents is this, like, top down knowledge expert instead of the, I’m going to be the guide beside you. So when you’re on the ski hill being like, this is so cool, I’m beside you and I’m not thinking about anything in the world. There was this reel going around that’s like, had a bad day. Go skiing. Feeling down.
0:28:59 – (Dr. Tracy): Go skiing. My husband are like, yes, just go skiing. I agree. But, but it’s this sense of, instead of saying to our kids, get off your phone, get off your device, go do these experiences, process it with them. Well, hey, what was it like after skiing so many days? Hey, do you notice how sometimes after you’re on your device, you feel a little, like, you know, jarred up in your body and feel a little irritated? Yeah, me too. You know, I know I’ve been on my phone all night. I’m going to go for a walk. Do you want to come with me? And so we start modeling it to them and so that they can then be like, oh, yeah, I feel that.
0:29:35 – (Dr. Tracy): So with my, my high sensitive guy, we talk about that, of, like, noticing, how’s your body? Where’s your body right now? Check in with yourself. Okay, we’ve just wrapped up being on a screen. How are you feeling? Do you think maybe we need to go, like, activate our bodies in some other way and they can start to learn that?
0:29:53 – (Wendy): You know, what I love that makes me think Tracy is. Is at. Because I can see my, my strong willed one, especially being like, I feel great. I feel great after an hour of tick tock, you know? But if. If she.
0:30:06 – (Dr. Tracy): I do know a little.
0:30:08 – (Wendy): If she were to get a little snarky with me, if I. Because I can, like, sometimes, um, if I’m finishing a text or something, I think I’ve heard Mary call this, like, snubbing or something, right? When you’re, like, someone’s trying to be present with you and, like, you are on your phone. Thank you. And I can think of some times when Stella especially, and this is exactly what I’ll do to Terry. Stella is like, my mini mirror, so it’s hilarious. I’ll do this sometimes to Terry, but she’ll go, hello?
0:30:35 – (Dr. Tracy): Hello?
0:30:36 – (Wendy): Like, are you. Are you even here with me? And so I think in those moments, it would be a really good opportunity to be like, like, my bad. Like, I had. I thought I had to finish that text right now, but honestly, it can wait. Like, how did that feel in your body? Because I’m sure that didn’t feel good. Just, like, trying to anchor. Because when she is feeling the annoyance or, like, Terry is my partner, he’s, like, the most angelic dude on the planet, so I feel like he never gets annoyed, whereas I’m the one who always gets annoyed if he’s on his device advice, I’ll say to him, what are you doing? Who are you talking to?
0:31:15 – (Wendy): And it’s like, they would be good for me to, you know, I’m, like, trying to tap into our bodies. How are we feeling so we can remember that this affects our relationships. And when you’re with somebody and you’re not on devices, it feels really, really good. And when you’re on, when you’re with people and they are on their devices and you’re trying to engage, it just feels there’s just a disconnection. So that’s the point. And, like, coming at it at all these different angles is, I think, really fun to get creative with it because.
0:31:41 – (Dr. Tracy): It’S important, and our phones are here to stay. And so how then do we utilize it? Can you watch the funny memes that you’re sending each other together? Can you send it back and forth? Right. Like, find the points of connection so that, you know, that’s a good idea. Let’s think. You know, what was, like, 15 years ago, you would only have the option to send a text. Or 20 years ago, it was only a text. It wasn’t anything else on social media.
0:32:04 – (Dr. Tracy): Go back to sending the text. Hey, I thought about you. This one made me laugh so much. And, you know, we can still do that. We can find the ways to connect alongside our phones.
0:32:15 – (Wendy): I love that. I love that. Okay, number three, prioritize regular dates. You know, we’re gonna have some listeners that are like, ha ha ha. That’s hilarious. I can’t do that. I have no family. My kids are crazy and won’t stay with.
0:32:30 – (Dr. Tracy): Right. I I nudge people to do this, and most of my clients will come back and say, you know what? We were a little bit tired the next day, but because we felt so connected, that little bit of tired feeling the next day was totally worth the date that we had. And let’s redefine what it means to date when you have children. Because before kids, you could go on a whim. It didn’t matter what was going on. You could leave when you wanted, come back when you want, sleep in, you know, depending on what your job was, there was so much more flexibility and less demands on you.
0:33:03 – (Dr. Tracy): And now we do need to get more intentional. But here’s, here’s the reality about something. When it comes to you scheduling your work meetings, like, you and I, we put it in our calendar. We agreed ahead of time. How’s your calendar? How’s my calendar? Okay. We’re going to meet at this time and we both upheld that date. Otherwise, you and I both know with all that goes on in our lives, we will not be able to meet for this podcast episode here in my calendar. I prioritize it and so did you.
0:33:28 – (Dr. Tracy): And we can do this with our partners. And that is just about allowing ourselves to use system that we use in other places of our life. Nothing happens without it being planned. And I know when I even talk about planning and scheduling intimacy and sex, some people will come back and say, well, where’s the spontaneity in that? There’s no fun in that. And I said, hey, I did not say for two minutes you do x and then for one more minute you do y, and then you’re going to do this for what? Right, that, no, there’s no fun in that.
0:34:01 – (Dr. Tracy): But when you say the third Wednesday of every month is our time to, you know, the kids maybe have extra screen time that night so that we’re not exhausted, and we go and we do our own thing, we make our own dinner, the kids have maybe had their own order in kind of fun food, whatever they’re having in front of tv. We close the door, we’re in our room, we get to have fun, whatever that looks like, but play and be creative. And instead of getting stuck in the.
0:34:29 – (Dr. Tracy): We can’t afford babysitters. Totally get that. We can’t afford going out once a week. I also really get that. But get a card game. Get a new game that you can learn. Have the experiences together, because that’s what’s going to keep you feeling close.
0:34:44 – (Wendy): It’s so true. And yeah, there is often, like, I remember, especially when the kids were little, there was intensity, there was planning. I remember when my little guy, who’s always been like my one, that struggles with a little anxiety, he had separation anxiety real bade. There was so many nights where he would chase us down the road as we were driving away, screaming, crying. And that was when his little cousin lived with us for two summers.
0:35:12 – (Wendy): So he knew her really well. But just, I remember that feeling of just being like, oh, my gosh, that took so much effort. And then, like you said, it is so worth it. Because whether you’re in your bedroom with your door locked and just watching Seinfeld and having a, your dinner that you want and not feeling guilty that the kids are watching tv or you’re actually going out to a nice dinner or in a movie or whatever, but it is, it’s, that connection point is just like so huge. And that is one area that we did really prioritize all those years. And it’s interesting because now that our kids are older, it almost feels like, well, we are, we’re not, we’re not prioritizing date nights right now. So we need to, I want to get back into that.
0:35:55 – (Wendy): But it was really nice all those years because it did just keep us so, so connected.
0:36:03 – (Dr. Tracy): My kids get mad at us and, and I actually like it. I like that they get mad at us because we’re modeling that our relationship is important. And when we can tap into. What do you hope your children learn about what it means to be in a loving relationship? We don’t tell them these things. We model it. We model the repair, we model what it means to make a mistake, get heated and come back and say sorry.
0:36:29 – (Dr. Tracy): We model what it means to prioritize each other. So my little guy, same thing, used to cry at the window because we’d be pulling out the driveway or even if it was just me, myself, one of us, we always had a hard time leaving for us, period. And he would just cry. And it was the hardest thing to leave. Date nights were not happening that often that time. And then the other one would get mad at us. And those are uncomfortable feelings.
0:36:54 – (Dr. Tracy): And I know that we can work through discomfort. We can teach our kids that, yes, you do feel disappointed. I am going to disappoint you. That’s my job as your parent, to disappoint you. Because when you learn how to deal with that with me at home, then you’re going to be able to do that out in the world. And when we’re connected as parents, we feel better being able to parent you. So we’ve had those conversations with the kids and what we did last night is we agreed that. So kids bedtime is at 08:00 p.m.
0:37:21 – (Dr. Tracy): last night we said, all right, guys, 07:00 p.m. we are all yours. But right now, we finished dinner at 620. We’re going to have our time right now here. So we’re going to set the table, we’re going to chat, we’re going to connect. You guys can go play on your own. And then we’ll meet up at seven. And they kind of resisted it a little bit and they’re like, oh, we don’t like that. I’m like, yeah, I know, it’s totally hard. And I gave them some ideas of what they could do and then they’ve resisted again.
0:37:45 – (Dr. Tracy): But then they got there and that’s okay. But we’re modeling something really important to our kids, we have limits. We have needs, and it’s okay to get them met.
0:37:58 – (Wendy): Amen. And just you. You mentioned it of just becoming comfortable or the way. I forget how you phrase it with the uncomfortable.
0:38:05 – (Dr. Tracy): Right.
0:38:05 – (Wendy): Like, we are capable of moving through the uncomfortable because I think of all the listeners that have the strong little kids who. The babysitter is really tough, right. And you have to go through a few babysitters till you find the one that, when you come home, they don’t feel the need to tell you all the ways that your kid was, like, a pain in the ass. You’re like, okay, thank. Like, you know, like, we went through a few where we were like, you’re fired. You know, like, when we go home, we just want to know, are they alive? Did you get them to sleep?
0:38:30 – (Wendy): Did you get them fed? And I can support you with creative ways if you need help to, like, if they pushed back on bedtime or something. But in general, like, I don’t wanna hear you complaining to me, but, like, strong willed kids are notorious, right, for, like, the sitter being intense to, like, find the right one who’s gonna really click. And thank God we did find those sitters over the years that we were just like, it’s amazing how one sitter can, like, handle a strong willed child really, really well, and another one can just be destroyed by them. Right? And so that’s. But that’s the uncomfortableness of sometimes you have to go through that and say, okay, it’s okay that this one didn’t work out.
0:39:10 – (Wendy): We’re going to keep trying, and we’re going to ask another person and just maybe educate them a little bit more on what they can do when the kid pushes back on dinner or is being rough with their. Their sibling or whatever. But it’s like, those uncomfortable moments that we are capable of getting through. And the more we become, like, practice and not feeling, like, our nervous system is, like, not feeling unsafe in those moments, but, like, this is just an uncomfortable moment. And we’re going to still pay the babysitter, and then we’ll talk to her tomorrow about what she can do next time to feel more confident at bedtime. Like, we’re okay. We’re safe.
0:39:44 – (Wendy): Okay, awesome. Date nights or date regular dates. Okay. And I will say that for me, it has helped to have. And we’re going to. We’re. I’ll save that for point number five. Okay, let’s move on to share your dreams and passions. Um, what do you want to riff about this one, Tracy? Because my gosh this is amazing and so powerful and connecting.
0:40:07 – (Dr. Tracy): I think what we do in our relationships is we start to predict the other person and we tell ourselves we know everything about them. And I like to remind people that on average, we have something like 40 to 50,000 thoughts a day. It’s not possible to know every single part of your partner. And it’s pretty magical when you can discover something that your partner is experiencing or thinking about or feeling that you didn’t know.
0:40:33 – (Dr. Tracy): And that is a way of forming connection and closeness. And so when it comes to sharing our dreams and our passions, it is about continuing to turn towards each other. And to say, I had this thought of or one day when being able to talk about the dreams, one day of do you want to travel? Where do you want to live? What does it look like to even be retired and the kids are not there? And I think what this does, that I think we want to root ourselves in, is developing this sense of we together, this we ness.
0:41:06 – (Dr. Tracy): And if you’re in the roommate stage, what can also feel, because it’s hard, right? If your kids are four months and two years old, you’re in a stage where it’s going to feel like roommates because you are giving so much to your young kids kids. So if you’re in that season, give yourself a lot of permission. But what is most important is that you can both sit on the couch and say, we’re in this together.
0:41:30 – (Dr. Tracy): We both want to get out of this. We both trust that we’re going to move through this together and come out on the other side, where we get to put our intimacy back into the main scene again, where we get to find new ways to explore each other. And that, even in that season, is a way of sharing a dream and a passion together. There.
0:41:51 – (Wendy): That’s so beautiful. Yeah. Because sometimes when you’re out on date nights, it can be like, what are we going to talk about? Because you either talk about business or you talk about your kids, but talking about your dreams and visions or passions is a little bit different brained and so beautiful. And I know for a lot of families who feel like they might struggle to be on the same page, we often will guide them to talk about what are their dreams for their children and their family legacy. Because a lot of times it’s similar.
0:42:22 – (Wendy): We think we’re on such different pages, especially if a spouse is like, no, we need to punish. That’s the way you’re getting. And one’s like, no, we’re going to. I’d like, to do compassionate discipline. Both parents want to raise kind, loving, compassionate, responsible children. Like, we’re on the same page with our dreams of, like, having kids who want to call us when they want to come home once they’re adults. Both of us want that. That’s our dream, is to one day have grandchildren and have this tight knit relationship.
0:42:54 – (Wendy): But sharing in, realizing, oh, we actually are on the same page. We might just be different in how we’re going to. We might not understand how we’re going to get there with the same. How to, but we have the. The same, or, like, similar dreams and passions, and it’s just so energizing, right when you can get out of the mundane. Let’s talk about work, let’s talk about kids. But, like, where are we going to be in ten years? Where do we want to retire? I love that.
0:43:23 – (Dr. Tracy): So this was such a common thing that was showing up in my therapy room and also with my members and be connected. So what I did was I created 100 questions to deepen your connection. So if people are looking for something to bring to their next date night or while they’re washing dishes beside their partner, I’ve got that on my website. It’s drtracyd.com connect, and it’s a free guide, 100 questions. It’s my favorite tool that I have, and it really stemmed from parents saying, yeah, we went on a date and we had nothing to talk about, and parents saying, I don’t know where to start. We don’t even know each other anymore.
0:44:00 – (Dr. Tracy): And one question, for example, Greg and I took it on our date night last year. We’ve taken it a few times, but this one stands out in the sense that we answered one question, and it took 20 minutes to answer the one question, and we got to know more about each other. What was the one? It was, who would you choose to have dinner with? Past, present, or future? Choose three people. We could talk about different memories and what that was like and what you’d like to ask them at the table and how it would be different so they could see you today. So just really deep in that sense of connection.
0:44:34 – (Dr. Tracy): It was fun.
0:44:35 – (Wendy): I love it. I always say to that one, Jimmy Fallon would be at the top of my list. Okay, amazing. So we have one last point to cover before we wrap, and that is schedule intimate time.
0:44:47 – (Dr. Tracy): Yes, I touched on it already. Yes, you did. Yeah. This is, again, if you don’t put it in the calendar, do things really happen? And I know people want spontaneous, and also, I know spontaneous doesn’t work for everybody. So we have to understand that if we don’t prioritize something, it tends to go on the wayside. And I think the other thing, too, why I like this so much, is that intimacy is not so.
0:45:14 – (Dr. Tracy): People who are listening test yourself. When Wendy said, schedule intimate time, did you immediately think sex as in intercourse and ending in orgasms? Okay, so then this is also the common mistake that we make because intimacy doesn’t need to be narrowly defined as ending in orgasms. And I specifically talk about this because I know for some people, if they’re still not sleeping through the night, if they’re nursing, if they’ve experienced mental health difficulties or a loss or a traumatic birth, sex and physical touch might be the furthest thing from what they need right now.
0:45:50 – (Dr. Tracy): So remembering to redefine what intimacy looks like. And that could be the. Well, first the physical intimacy, it could be the emotional intimacy, experiential intimacy. What are the things you can do together? But if we were to narrowly define this, then. And go to more of the sex and physical connection. Yeah, we need to put it on the table. We need to be able to say, when are we going to make this work for both of us? And how can we then flex the things that we do that day? Maybe that day we don’t do the dishes, maybe we give the kids screen time and we lock ourselves in the room and tell the kids that we’re doing laundry or something. So that time is really important.
0:46:30 – (Wendy): Yeah, it was just. Yeah, the. It’s interesting to look at the definition of intimacy because. Yeah, it’s like you think of, like, we have this narrow viewpoint. As you said, sexual intercourse ending in orgasm.
0:46:44 – (Dr. Tracy): Right.
0:46:44 – (Wendy): It’s like, well, like taking like, a hot bath together could be really. Or like massage.
0:46:50 – (Dr. Tracy): Shower together. Massage, yeah. Or exploring each other’s body. But as soon as we say, it always has to end in orgasm. Where’s the fun? Where’s the play? And what couples are really good at doing is finding the rhythm that works. I can ask couples in my therapy room, tell me what it looks like when you’re having sex. Like, walk me through what you do. Okay. Well, we kiss. You know, I say, you wanted tonight, and she’s like, well, okay, I guess so.
0:47:17 – (Dr. Tracy): And so then we kiss for two minutes, then we touch a little bit here. And then I do that and she does this, this, and then we have intercourse. And then we’re done. And you repeat the same thing over and over again. And that doesn’t become fun and playful, and that’s what intimacy is about. Exploration, pleasure, play, fun.
0:47:38 – (Wendy): That’s so. Yeah, that’s so, like, interesting how. Yeah. To get out of the rut, you. I think. I would think you would just need to have some conversations of, like, hey, let’s. Let’s schedule this in. Like, let’s. And not feel like that’s a defeating thing. And then let’s, like, switch it up and not just. I’m feeling like, from hearing this right now, let’s figure out a way to not just make it about the end. Like, I feel like, especially for women.
0:48:03 – (Wendy): I don’t know. You’re the expert here, but it feels like the pressure comes on because for, like, women, it’s such. More of an act to orgasm than men. And so it’s like, okay, we got to do this. It’s like. And then it’s amazing. It ends up being amazing. But, like, if you could take that pressure away and just say, hey, can we just play around with, like, what if we just did massages this week and just see what happens? Like, I don’t know.
0:48:26 – (Dr. Tracy): Right. And so you’re. You’re tapping into a little bit of anticipation. And so when we massage and when we touch in ways that build anticipation, we feel more arousal, we feel more desire. We want to go into those things again, but if we’re asking ourselves to go from zero to 100 and where we’ve just had to be the boundary, that person putting kids to bed and then doing the dishes and then making sure the laundry’s not in the bed. And then you want me to be this goddess right here.
0:48:54 – (Dr. Tracy): That doesn’t necessarily work. Right. So we’ve got to find these other ways throughout the day as well. So intimacy, anticipation is not something that just happens in that window when you’re ready to, but it’s all constantly throughout, which is we go back to the rituals, we go back to the limiting phone time. Right. Waking up and kissing your part, kissing your partner in the morning, giving them a deep squeeze.
0:49:16 – (Dr. Tracy): You’ve started it already. You send them a text later on saying, gosh, that hug this morning was so good. I love smelling you. Then you have that date you have. Right. You share the thing. All of that, or all of these pieces of intimacy that then lead to the, yes, let’s do this. I’m so right. And we forget that. So I encourage all people to listen with your partner at the same time.
0:49:42 – (Wendy): This is amazing. Yeah. And I will say that as our marriage has gone on, I think. I think we’re on 23 years now. It’s like, the scheduling for me, the morning is like Friday mornings. That’s two Friday mornings. And recently I did some financial healing program, and now it’s like we’re starting to combine looking at our numbers and having really awesome financial clarity and loving on our numbers every week combined with, like, hey, let’s have some great hot sex.
0:50:11 – (Wendy): But it’s like, it feels. It feels good, it feels exciting. Like, that’s what we do on Fridays. But it’s Friday morning because don’t ask me to look at my freaking numbers or have hot sex on Friday night.
0:50:21 – (Dr. Tracy): Or, like, Saturday night.
0:50:22 – (Wendy): Like, the daytime is my happy zone. Of course, in the morning, especially.
0:50:27 – (Dr. Tracy): Sure. And so hormonally, that also makes sense for many people. And when you give all your energy to everything else, I’ve worked out, I’ve done the dishes, I meal planned, I did the work, and then I laundered, and then I kids and I parented. And then you want me to have sex. There’s nothing left, right? So we have to ask ourselves, where do we put sex in the priority list? Oftentimes it’s the last thing.
0:50:51 – (Dr. Tracy): What would it be like to shift some of those things up when people were locked down and at home? You know, of course kids were at home with them, but that. That, to me, was, go and play. Lock yourself in the bedroom and you’re both home. If you work from home, take your lunch break, do something fun and play. Don’t leave it until the end of the day because most people don’t want to. But that really does require us to kind of enter into conversations with our partners, which we know people have sex, but rarely do people talk about sex. It requires us to have these conversations outside of the bedroom to talk about, what do I like? How do I want to be initiated?
0:51:30 – (Dr. Tracy): What feels good? What do I not like? It’s all part of the picture.
0:51:34 – (Wendy): So good. I will say I love having teenagers. When you do parenting this way, it’s like, the best. Like, it’s. Teenagers are so fun, except for you. Like, when their kids are little, you can, like, sneak away and, like, do what you want in the bedroom when they’re teenagers, you’re like, no, we cannot. Because it’s like, we always be, like, horrified. It’d be like scarring if you weren’t your parents.
0:51:55 – (Dr. Tracy): But, yes, have a lock on your door. You need to make sure they’ve got their headphones on, all those things, right?
0:52:01 – (Wendy): Yes. At this stage, they need to be at freaking school. So. But, oh, my gosh. Doctor Tracy what an honor to spend this last hour with you. Thank you for taking time out of your very busy schedule to be with us and to bless our community with all of this inspiring information and wisdom when it comes to reclaiming, reclaiming our romance and strengthening our partnership and our parenting. So let listeners know where they, they can come find you and learn more about all you have to offer and all that good stuff.
0:52:34 – (Dr. Tracy): Thank you, Wendy. And thank you to everyone who joined us today and clicked play. I know our time is our most valuable commodity, so giving time is so important to me. So come say hello to me on Instagram. That’s my main hangout place. Doctor Tracy D is my social handle. All of my resources are there as well. You can scroll through my reels, my link in bio, or head over to my website, drtracyd.com.
0:52:56 – (Dr. Tracy): my podcast is called I’m not your shrink. My book is. I didn’t sign up for this. I guarantee you and your husband will learn something in there. Wendy, I am blown away by the number of men who have sent me emails and messages saying I needed your book. I did not anticipate as many men. And it’s just been amazing because the COVID is white with a gray couch on it, so it’s inviting. And the stories are of men as well who were in my office struggling with the very real struggles. And so, anyways, I encourage anyone to grab that book, but do say hello to me. It’s the most meaningful thing to me, being social on Instagram.
0:53:35 – (Wendy): Oh, I love it. And I love that you mentioned that the men really love your work, too, because we have, I mean, we have 93% women who listen to our show, 7% men. And then. But in our communities, we’re always encouraging our students to encourage their husbands to listen and read along. And so many are completely responsive and willing. So that’s wonderful to hear that. So many loved it. So you hear that, wives, go get, go get your hubs, go get the book for the family, and then share the book or get two copies. So amazing. Well, thank you again for being here, tracy.
0:54:08 – (Wendy): We just appreciate and honor the work that you’re doing in the world, and it’s just been a delight to chat.
0:54:13 – (Dr. Tracy): Thank you so much, Wendy.
