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Feeling edgy, exhausted, or like youโre constantly running behind? Youโre not aloneโand it doesnโt have to stay this way. In this empowering episode of the Fresh Start Family Show, Wendy is joined by Michelle Grosser, nervous system coach and former attorney turned burnout recovery advocate, to explore what she calls โThe Burnout Trifecta.โ Together, they dive into the three sneaky habits that silently run parents into the ground: people-pleasing, perfectionism, and high-functioning anxiety.
If youโve ever felt like youโre doing all the things but still feel depleted, Michelle offers encouragement, healing insights, and actionable tips to help you slow down, feel safe in your body again, and actually enjoy your family life.
Whether youโre deep in the parenting trenches or just starting to realize your nervous system needs a resetโthis episode will meet you with compassion, validation, and fresh tools to start your healing journey.
Raising A Strong Willed, Intense or Sensitive Child? If yes, I have a FREE gift for you!
This free bundle comes with an extensive learning guide & FREE workshop with me, where Iโll teach you ways to build connection & methods to work WITH your strong willed kids instead of trying to MAKE THEM change.
Youโll learn:
*Firm & kind strategies to navigate challenging behavior with firm kindness & connection (vs. fear, force, yelling, threats & bribery)
*Ways to build connection instead of pushing your child away w/ heavy handed โhand me down parenting tacticsโ
*How to work WITH your kids instead of forcing them to comply or trying to MAKE them change
Grab your FREE bundle now & start learning today!
Episode Highlights:
- Michelleโs personal story of burnout as a lawyer + mom of twoโand how she rebuilt her life with nervous system healing at the center.
- What high-functioning anxiety really feels like and why itโs so common (but not normal).
- The danger of people-pleasing and how chronic self-abandonment leads to burnout.
- Why perfectionism is not the same as excellenceโand how to embrace โgood enoughโ without guilt.
- The connection between childhood wounds, nervous system dysregulation, and parenting struggles.
- Simple, daily tools to rewire your nervous system: stillness, play, and rest (yes, even 1 minute counts!).
- How to model emotional expression and nervous system regulation for your kids.
- Why boundaries arenโt selfishโtheyโre survival.
Resources Mentioned:
Michelle’s The Calm Mom Podcast
Follow Michelle on Instagram
Michelleโs Website
Wendyโs episode on The Calm Mom Podcast
Catch the full episode on YouTube!
Unable to listen, or prefer to read along? Here’s the transcript!
Well, hello families and welcome back to a new episode. I’m so happy to be here today with Michelle Grosser and we are going to be talking about the burnout trifecta. Three things that just really drive us into the ground as parents. And obviously we’re going to talk about how we can avoid those things. So we are thriving as parents instead of just surviving. But welcome to the show, Michelle.
00:31
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to be here.
Yes, I would say normally we are like glasses twins because for the last few years I have rocked super fun glasses, but I just got contacts. so I know and reminder everyone who’s listening on audio, we are now on YouTube and it’s just a fun way to connect with us even more as you’re listening to these episodes. So make sure you listen over there if you haven’t yet and you can check out Michelle’s cool glasses.
00:58
Michelle, would you start us off by sharing with us a little bit about your story and how you became an advocate for families? We would love to hear more. Sure. Yeah. So my name’s Michelle Grosser. I’m a mom of two girls. So there’s six and seven. And my husband, Jeff, we just celebrated 15 years married. And yeah, yeah. And for those 15 years, we lived in Miami. And I had a law practice.
01:27
It was awesome. And then I had two babies and then it was a lot. And then I found myself in a really, really, really deep state of burnout that I think I had been probably ignoring a lot of the warning signs for probably a really long time, probably years until my body was just like, you know what? You’re not gonna pay attention. I’m gonna force you to slow down and pay attention. And as I started to…
01:56
do just that, slow down and pay attention to my body and start to work with my own coach. And I hired a functional medicine practitioner really to get to the root of why I was feeling so off, right? In my mind and in my body and in my spirit. And what I came to realize and understand through that healing process really was that the through line for everything I was experiencing was the state of my nervous system. And it was so
02:24
deeply dysregulated and I was stuck in this kind of fight or flight urgency. Everything’s gotta happen now, like always perpetually busy kind of state for so long and it wore me ragged. So as I learned how to heal and a lot of those symptoms went away, I just got so excited and I’m like, man, I gotta tell everybody about this. And it’s really become my life’s work. I closed my law firm just a few weeks ago.
02:53
My family closed up shop in Miami. We sold our house. We moved to Texas. And for a lot of reasons, but one of which so I can really go all in on unsharing this message and how we go about doing this because I think it benefits so many women in particular. I’m the host of the Call Mom podcast. We’re about to do a swap and I’m going have you on my show. really just women moms coming through, right? Experiencing so many of the same things I was experiencing.
03:21
And to have an opportunity to say, hey, these are some changes that we can make. And just day to day life, you have to go out and buy anything. You don’t have to have any equipment or anything. This is just like new awareness and new ways of being that can have such an impact on how we’re able to be present with ourselves and with our families. I love that. Well, congratulations on the move and the career shift. It takes so much courage to dive in and just build an organization where you’re helping people in this capacity.
03:50
How inspiring, congratulations. And I love it. So talk to us before we get into our subject matter around burnout and three surefire ways to drive yourself into the ground, essentially. What were your symptoms back when you were like, dang it, I am like survival mode right now? What was happening in your day-to-day life? Thoughts, behaviors, patterns, all the things. Yeah, that’s a good question.
04:18
Initially, it was a lot of mental and emotional symptoms. And those were the ones that I was like, especially with my personality, I was like, I’ll just push through this, right? So it’s like the chronic exhaustion, the waking up tired, no matter how much sleep I’m getting. It’s a lot of brain fog, difficulty concentrating, forgetfulness, and just kind of like this underlying edginess and irritability all day long. Like, why is everything annoying me? Or why is it really hard to be patient with my kids? Or why am I snapping?
04:48
Uh, the sense of urgency, like I would wake up feeling like I’m already behind for the day, right? Like I’m just running, trying to get back on track all day long. Um, really uncomfortable, slowing down, just busy all the time, right? Like my calendar chock full running my kids from one thing to the next myself. Um, and those are all really subtle things, right? I think that we can normalize. And I did for a long time. like, well, I’m, you know, I’m an attorney with young kids. Like it’s just how life is, you know,
05:16
That’s not true. And then when the physical symptoms started to come around, that’s when I really like started to talk to my doctors and I was like, okay, something’s going on here. And I just wasn’t sleeping. I couldn’t fall asleep or stay asleep. Gut issues, like I went gluten free for six years. I thought that was the issue. wasn’t. Muscle aches and chronic muscle tension, always having pain in my back and my neck and my shoulders. I was convinced I had an autoimmune condition.
05:44
Thank God I didn’t, but a lot of people who have been diagnosed with autoimmune conditions, it’s also rooted in the state of our nervous system. My hair was kind of falling out and thinning my skin seemed really dull. And I was just like, I think the thing that scared me the most is I just like lost my passion for life. it wasn’t like…
06:06
this deep dark hole, but it was just like this kind of apathy of like, man, I’m just like trudging through. it’s not, nothing’s really exciting me anymore. Like I’m not feeling that, that like bubbly feeling that we get when we’re so excited about something. And that wasn’t me. And I knew like that woman was still there somewhere inside of me. And that’s really what prompted me to action. I didn’t want my kids to have memories of like, well, mom was just always tired, right? Or like, mom, I just didn’t want that to be. Mom was just like, you know, we were always on her nerve.
06:35
So I’m like, no, you’re not actually, right? Like, this is my thing. I’m going to own it. And I’m going to do something about it. That word, that term you use, underlying constant edginess. I so many people can relate to that. And it’s so easy to normalize it, right? And then just, I mean, so many of the things you said, the sense of urgency.
06:58
wanting to slow down, but feeling very, very uncomfortable when you slow down. I can just relate to so much of your story. And it definitely showed up for me in my parenthood journey when my kids were young, before I really dove deep into the world of powerful parenting. And we changed our whole system and our whole ethos in our family. But it also does still show up for me in business, right? I think just it is definitely very easy.
07:25
to fall into the grind and to reach burnout. I do know that with so many of my clients, we have families from all over the world that are part of our Fresh Start Experience program. And you just hear this a lot, right? Like you can just tell the burnout is so intense. And so I’m just, I’m so happy that we’re talking about it today, because this is, know it’s just gonna be such a beautiful conversation. So thank you for sharing your story, your story with us. And so fast forward, again, you’re now,
07:55
How many years has it been since you realized like, hey, I got to do something different here and started healing your nervous system and getting the support that you needed and how long has it been? Yeah. So my oldest is almost eight. So it’s probably been about like seven years. Seven years. And tell us how the day to day feels now, because let me guess life did not slow down really. Like, I mean, maybe you’re in Texas now, maybe it’s different than Miami, but you know, life still comes and goes and it’s a lot. Right. So like,
08:24
How is it different for you now where you feel like you are not in a state of burnout? Let’s just paint the picture of what that feels like. Yeah, it’s a great question. And there’s so many answers to it. think part of it is I really started to examine the ways in which I was just looking at life, like all the paradigms I was holding. What did it mean to me, Michelle, to be a strong woman?
08:51
What was strong or what was weak, right? That was like a huge thing. What did it mean to be an emotional person? What did it mean to, what did success mean to me, right? And when I started to just kind of break a lot of these things down, that opened up such space for healing because I was the kind of woman who had just always been kind of like a high achiever and I just really based a lot. I mean, I loved to work, right? I loved to get stuff done. I’m a type A like.
09:17
I’m a lawyer. You know, it’s like, just like, yeah, don’t stop. And in that, I think the things that for so long, thought made me really good at what I did. I wasn’t one of those emotional women, right? I certainly wasn’t like, I don’t cry or things like that. And I was like proud of that, right? But I was so disconnected from my body. I was so uncomfortable getting out of my head and actually feeling anything.
09:45
I didn’t even know, I didn’t have vocabulary for that or know how that would work. And what I didn’t realize is that those are the things that actually, once I was like able to embrace them and embody them, like those are actually the things that make me strong, right? So it’s like kind of flipping my whole idea. And I think everything else kind of flowed from that. Then I was able to take off the pressure of doing stuff all the time. And I was able to like get a lot better at my boundaries and say no to stuff. And so like,
10:13
Nothing heals by pushing harder. Nothing. Right? You break a bone and no doctor’s going to tell you, go lift heavy weights at the gym. It’s like, you’ve got to slow down. And that’s true for burnout. And it’s true for a lot of other things that we’re facing. So I think changing my pace, changing my relationship with work, changing my relationship with my cell phone and my screens in general, exercising the muscle, I think
10:42
you for me and maybe a lot of you listening, like doing nothing, resting, relaxing, stillness, meditation, prayer, journaling, those things were painful at first because like I can clean my house from top to bottom and like that I’m in good shape. But you asked me to just like, can you sit and pray for 20 minutes? Like I would, I would have told you like, don’t have the attention span for that. Right? Like I can’t, I don’t have time for that. Um, so really just like,
11:08
changing what actually is important to me and what actually is productive and what actually counts as rest, right? And not just like checking out and zoning out and numbing out. So it was a lot of things, but I think starting just with an evaluation of like, how am I looking at this? Is this even mine, right? Or am I doing this because everyone else expects me to or society has just kind of like placed this expectation on me and then kind of.
11:36
untangling everything and starting back at square one with so much more intention. I love that. So it sounds like you’re able to actually rest easier now and like actually be able to sit still possibly. I mean, I’m still a work in progress on that. I am so much more comfortable praying if I’m surfing or hiking than I am if I’m sitting. And it sounds like you’ve been able to change your pace and just become more comfortable.
12:02
with the slower, not like a million, maybe not a million things in a day. And then the boundaries, I hear that you saying the boundaries are perhaps a little easier to stick to now. I can so relate on that one. I did a lot of nervous system healing work over the last year. And it’s interesting because I got into it from a financial angle. So my mentor just specializes in financial healing around the nervous system. And of course, we know that
12:29
The way you show up in one way in the world is the way you show up in all ways. So the nervous system carries throughout. Um, but it was just so cool to see how once I tapped into nervous system regulation and it is always a work in progress. Um, and you have those hits where you’re like, Ooh, huge gain. And then you kind of go backwards a little bit, right. And then you, you know, that’s how it works sometimes with titration. But, um, I just remember like clearly setting, I was in her program for about a month and was doing the work and
12:58
all the things and then about a month in, I was able to set this like very clear boundary on Instagram, because Instagram is a very interesting place where people just believe they can tell you whatever they want. And it just felt so easy and authentic and kind and compassionate to say, I have no interest in engaging in this conversation and I wish you well. And it was about, of course, how hitting kids is actually biblical and what we’re called to do. And I was like, I wish you so like, I wish you well.
13:27
and I have no interest and it just felt so clean and normally it would have been like a triggered moment where my heart beat fast and right now I have a post where that’s like happening and I’m kind of like oh interesting I’m not quite there yet totally but I just remember that moment being like oh I’m growing in my boundary setting capacity it feels safer to say no I will not engage in this and so that’s I love to hear that that that’s really
13:55
helped you too. And then I imagine the emotional piece has been interesting too. Like, do you feel more confident now in the ability to like actually feel and know what you’re feeling and process the feelings without feeling like you’re drama? Yeah, for sure. And I think what I didn’t realize with emotions is, you know, whether I deny or suppress or repress them, they’re there, right? And our emotions take up so much space. So if we don’t have practices,
14:24
to feel in them and release them and express them. Then they’re just kind of stored in there and they do take up space. And what happens then is it shrinks your bandwidth and it shrinks your capacity. And then you find yourself edgy and irritable and you have a short temper and you’re snapping and all of these things. So yeah, absolutely. The more that I, again, just practice, right? Like I even remember telling my husband when I first started doing this work, I’m like, I am practicing feeling my feelings and not just like stuffing everything down.
14:53
So if I just start like crying, if we’re watching a movie or, you know, if I’m upset about something, can you just like tell me that that’s okay? And he’s so sweet. He’s like, yeah, of course. But that’s how like awkward and uncomfortable it was for me. I had to like set the stage for it. But man, that was a huge part of me growing in my capacity, honestly, expanding the edges of what my nervous system can hold. I love it, Michelle.
15:21
So great to hear just all about your journey and where you are now versus where you are when you realize that you just wanted to change some things. so having that conversation around what burnout feels like in context, let’s talk about these three things that really are a surefire way to drive yourself into the ground and why it’s important to get the support that you need to get away from these habits, behavior, thought patterns. And the first one is how people pleasing.
15:49
might be running your life and how to start setting boundaries that actually stick. So let’s talk about people pleasing. I know so many of my clients have a tendency to go in this direction. I think a lot of my clients, my students here are, most of them are doing a 180 in their parenting. They start out using the fear and force model, because that’s what they inherited. And then they realize, oh,
16:15
we’re going to do it differently with our own kids. But I find that a lot of people go to the highly reactive place in parenting where it’s like, oh, they kind of get bigger and more aggressive to get people to do what they want. And then some people, their reactive pattern is the withdrawal and the people pleasing. And just saying yes, and even becoming permissive with a child because it just feels safer to please. But tell us how this is tough and will drive us into the ground. Yeah. And I think you make such a good
16:45
point too for the parents listening who have, how did you say it? They inherited the force and what is it called? Yeah, fear and force. Fear and I call it fear and force. I love that. And I can just, I don’t love that, but I love the label you have on it. And I can just see how that would raise up a child who then is very quick to try to please, right?
17:05
becomes like picks up these people pleasing tendencies. They lash out. Like the strong-willed kids are the lash-os. They’re like, screw you. You can’t treat me like this. I’ll puff up just as big or bigger than you. But then some of the kids respond with the withdraw and the people please because they just don’t want to get hurt. Yep. And to a certain extent, that’s the same thing that we’re doing as adults when we run this pattern. A lot of times, how does it show up? Well,
17:29
I mean, look at your calendar. A lot of it is overcommitting, right? Do we have a hard time even just like saying no to things at our kids’ school or at work? We have a really hard time with conflict. So we’re avoiding a lot of those difficult conversations that we know we need to have. And we’re saying yes when everything in us wants to say no, right? And I think with people pleasing in particular, there’s a level of self-abandonment there.
17:57
Because there’s a beautiful servant’s heart that we all want to have for our family, and for our friends, and for our community. And that’s not people pleasing. But people pleasing is when chronically and consistently, we’re doing it at our own expense. That’s not like selfless parenting or whatever, all the beautiful things that we want to be able to show up for the people around us. So people pleasing, like a lot of these is
18:25
rooted in fear, right? We don’t want to disappoint others. We don’t want to drive them away. Ultimately, we don’t want to be abandoned because to our nervous system, that would not feel safe, like someone’s withholding love. So a lot of these are the drivers beneath the surface of our people-pleasing that we’re not really aware of. And I think with people-pleasing, I mean, it’s easy to see how that drives us to burnout, right? We’re in this chronically activated state of making sure that everyone’s happy or
18:55
or their needs are met and that can drive us to exhaustion. And then it can also, I think, bring up this kind of hypervigilance too, where we’re always like checking on everyone and making sure that our kids are always, you know, happy or in a good mood or a partner, whomever it is. And I think, you know, the big work there is probably tied to boundaries, right?
19:19
learning and practicing how to say no, starting with small things that feel safe, even though they’re really uncomfortable. And just reminding ourselves like this can be uncomfortable and safe at the same time. And kind of like you were sharing, it’ll get easier and easier or maybe more comfortable to say no to things that we know we need to, to protect our values and our time and our energy and our bandwidth and our attention and all of the things that we say we value and we really need to show up.
19:47
Mm, yeah. And I think people-pleasing is so interesting, because I I look at it from all different angles, right? It’s like, in parenting, it definitely, it shows up in so many different ways. Sometimes people will become permissive. Sometimes there’ll be things that in-laws will say, or, you know, even like, I have a lot of people within their church community, someone will say something against, like, the way that they’re
20:17
choosing to compassionately discipline or something. And they just have a lot of trouble speaking up, right? Or it feels easier just to laugh at it. I think also, you know, it shows up in a lot of ways in parenting. And then they end up feeling really triggered, especially if they’re around anybody that they fear might disapprove or be in disagreeance. And then they end up snapping on their kids in the grocery store or in the church parking lot or whatever it may be. And then I see it show up so much like in
20:47
building a business and just being a human, even outside of parenting and just having big world, you know, things of discussion and civil discourse with people. just can be so scary, right? I mean, people just chew you out so, so freely. And so it makes sense why we have our guards up and it’s easier. It feels easier to say, yeah, sure. I’ll do that. Or yes, I’ll be there or whatever it may be in people, please. But really it creates.
21:15
such a cognitive dissonance, right, Michelle? When your body, when your insides are like, no, no, no, I don’t want to do this or I disagree, or I don’t want to conform to that system that I believe is oppressive or hurtful, but yet I’m saying yes. Like you’re in, and so that cognitive dissonance of like,
21:31
the body and the mind are struggling. think that just- the self abandonment, right? It’s like every cell in your being is like, no. And then the part of you that’s just not comfortable enough to say that says yes. And there’s so much dissonance there. Yes. And so the more nervous system regulation work that you do, the easier it gets, Just to actually prioritize.
21:58
what you feel internally or divinely called to move in whatever direction versus what your kid really wants or even your spouse or whatever community. And even within that, think we all have to pick our battles. I don’t think the opposite of people pleasing is just going out and speaking our mind and defending every little thing. That’s not a good alternative either. So yeah, picking our battles. And then
22:25
Really what we’re ultimately doing when we start practicing is proving to our nervous system that it’s safe to do that. I stood up, I said no, I declined. I actually expressed what it is that I, whatever it is, and I didn’t die. We can do this again. And a lot of our parents have this show up when they fear a big reaction from a child. So our beautiful strong-willed kids are notorious for this. They will just let you know.
22:54
Like when Stella, my oldest, who’s my strong willed one, when she is sick, she feels the pain so deeply. And she is just like, we joke that she’s the worst patient because she’s just like, just the flu to her, it hurts, I think so much more. And so we always say that a lot of strong willed kids, just feel on an exponential level, right? And so when they are upset about a boundary, they will be really loud about it, right? And so
23:24
And that can feel so dangerous, but I think once people give their nervous system the data enough times that it’s okay for a kid to be upset and you can still be kind and firm and follow through with compassion, as you set a boundary and bedtime still at nine or we still got to go to school today or yeah, we still got to eat at least something for dinner, whatever it may be. And to allow that messy moment where they’re not happy.
23:54
to be safe, I think is a part of this too, that everyone’s on their own journey to feel more comfortable in it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, let’s move on to talk about perfection. Why aiming for it is a one-way ticket to burnout and how embracing good enough can be a game changer for your growth.
24:18
I mean, all of these are rooted in fear, right? So I guess like we can kind of start there with perfectionism too. I think a lot of times we wear it, I if as a badge of honor, but you know, we’re trying to say that I have a spirit or like a spirit of excellence or I like things to be done well. Which is awesome, right? Like we all want to serve with a spirit of excellence. And that’s very different than perfectionism, right? Because one feels like we’re actually rising and we’re doing well and we’re putting forth a best effort.
24:48
Um, but we’re also in the same vein, okay, if it fails and if it’s messy and we understand and see all of the growth available in that, um, but perfectionism is very different. Perfectionism is very constricting, right? Perfectionism is, is, um, anxiety inducing where everything feels like it has to be, um, just so or else, right? Something bad is going to happen. We’re going to be, again, either someone’s going to disapprove or comment, or there’s going to, it’s going to mean something about.
25:17
our intellect or the quality of the service we’re providing or whatever it is. There’s so many stories we tie into it. And ultimately, you know, when we’re trying to have things be perfect, it’s an attempt at control. And as human beings, we all have, you know, fundamental basic needs for, I think, two things ultimately, and then so many other things. But at its core, we all have needs for safety. We all have a need to be loved and approved of and, you know, part of a social group.
25:47
Um, and when either of those two are threatened, what I see is that we always just, and it’s automatic and subconscious, we resort to the control. And that’s really what’s going on in perfectionism, right? Like something feels like it could go really wrong or we’re going to lose approval of someone or something. Um, that’s going to have a huge impact if things aren’t perfect, but perfectionism is such a, um, an illusion and a mirage. And, um, it’s just, you know, that moving horizon, like every.
26:17
step closer you take, it just seems to take a step further back. And it’s this ideal that you never reach. So again, you can see how that would really drive burnout, right? It’s like this obsession with things having to be, and it shows up in so many different ways. I can even think of ways it’s shown up in my own home and my own parenting, right? Expecting my kids to do things certain ways. And when they didn’t, like something came up in,
26:44
me, right? It’s like, oh my gosh, there’s work I have to do here. This is actually nothing about my kids. Or keeping a clean home or something with our partner, especially if we run a business. So many opportunities for it to show up. And it will drive burnout if we’re not aware and able to get more comfortable with untying and untangling all the stories that we have caught up and why things need to be just so. Yeah.
27:13
Gosh, this has been a journey for me. You know, I’ve been like, I found the work that I teach 14 years ago and it wasn’t till probably like five or six that I realized how much shame had was like a driving factor in like the parts of my life that felt like they were just like more suffering than thriving or striving more than thriving, right? Like that’s a clarity that I’ve been able to see really clearly of like how
27:40
I move real easily into more of a manic striving, gotta get this right, gotta, and if I don’t, then the nervous system obviously feels very unsafe, but I’m feeling much better after years of working on it. But for me, when it comes to perfectionism, wanna hear your thoughts on this. It seems to be also very correlated with shame, right? So I always say that perfectionism loves,
28:08
Well, I’ll say shame was perfectionism because perfectionism, shame. So as long as you are doing everything right, like, and you feel like the house is perfectly clean, the kids are perfectly behaved. I feel really good about myself, right? And if, and if it’s not, then all of sudden I start to doubt who I am. And you mentioned, what does it mean about you that the dishes have been in the sink all week or that your kid talks back?
28:37
in the church nursery. Like, what does that mean about you? And it just so easily spirals into this thought pattern of like, what is wrong with you? You know, and, and I do, when I look at, at, um, the way many people were raised, it makes sense to me because mistakes were always seen as dangerous and mistakes were seen as bad and there was flaws, right? was like character flaws and also a problem.
29:07
Whereas now, it’s like we realize and what I teach and so many others teach is like mistakes are just opportunities to learn. Most mistakes are not a four alarm fire. Most like imperfections are not a four alarm fire. If you see that the dishes have been in the sink all week and then you want to create change where you have a different rhythm and pattern, you can do that next week. But it doesn’t mean there’s danger and you’re going to be judged or criticized. But many of us grew up in environments where
29:35
There was a lot of criticism, a lot of danger, physical, emotional. And so it just makes so much sense. And we get to change the narrative for our family legacies where perfection is not the goal in creating safety around that. Like think you had said, good enough. It’s pretty good. Yeah. We did pretty good today. was good enough. We made it. We had a good time. didn’t kill each other. Yeah.
30:03
And I think so much, like I couldn’t agree more about the shame. think, absolutely. All the stories we don’t even realize that we have tied up, right, and the things that we do. And I think a big part of that also when you talk about even just the cycles of it and parenting and raising our own kids is I think there’s often such a tie also between achievement with our children, right? And that can really drive, even with ourselves, drive this sense of perfection. And that’s something that I’ve
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tried to also heal with my children and bring a new awareness to, it’s like, I just stopped asking about their grades, how they did on their tests, how they like, those were things that, you a few years ago, that was getting the car on Friday. It’s like, how’d your spelling test go? And I’m no, I’m like, I’m cutting all of that out because that’s training them that mom’s expecting. And she really cares that we get a certain grade or whatever it is. And then there’s something that that means about me, right? Or maybe how much she loves me or approves of me or whatever it is. And we all have,
31:02
a part of that, think, within us too. It’s like, well, if I do really well on this, someone’s going to be really proud of me, and this is going to be really good. And if I don’t, then maybe the opposite is also true. Yeah, I just had a private session yesterday. I’ve had this month’s been crazy. I have a high level certification program. we had all of them. Obviously, it’s the point of the program where it’s time to do private sessions. So I 16 private sessions in the last two weeks.
31:30
But just yesterday was around the perfectionism, just that vibe and that goal for high achievement and how you just don’t realize how much it affects little souls, right? So like to have a different environment of just like enjoy the journey, enjoy the learning, like do what feels good, find pleasure in learning new things and helping and like make learning fun essentially.
31:59
is just really, I can tell helps people thrive instead of like, hey, we’re focused on the outcome. And the documentary, Race to Nowhere really helped me. I don’t know if you ever saw that, but it’s pretty old now. I think there’s two of them, but it just helped us so much to realize that we wanted to focus with our kids more on the journey over the end goal. And it’s been such a cool experiment, Michelle, because here we are, we started when Stella was,
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in preschool. So she was three and now she’s like almost 17. And our little guy was born into this work. So he’s almost 14. And we’ve never ever checked their grades, anything like we barely even ask like we get their report cards because they get a discount at the local surf shop. And we like to get them the discount. But they’ve 98 % of the time they get straight A’s and and they’re they’re doing great. But it’s just been I just want people to hear that because it’s
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there’s not a drive to push them to achieve. And they just naturally do it on their own. Yeah. they’re doing it from such a different place, right? It’s not fear that’s driving them to get straight A’s. Yeah. And I see a lot of Stella’s friends in particular who really struggle and they get punished. They get put in like a million hours of tutoring and they hate it. They’re miserable. They’re fighting with their parents.
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And then I also am hearing teachers, bless teachers’ hearts. They’re amazing. We love all teachers. Oh my goodness. But the normal practice in our district seems to be parents should be in checking the system and micromanaging to make sure that your kids are getting stuff done. And it’s just interesting because Terry and I looked at each other last week. It was 11th grade school, back to school night. And we were just like, oh, that’s so interesting. Almost every single teacher said that. And we just have never, we’ve never even
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we’re all logged into the platform, essentially. yeah, but again, it was always an experiment, right? And now that we’re coming more to the end of the teenage, kind of towards the end of the teenage years. Yeah, seeing some of it. Yeah. Yeah. It’s just interesting, right? So yeah, I love that conversation. The other thing that was coming to me in that, too, is how many opportunities we give our kids to see and witness us make mistakes, fail, get it wrong.
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I mean, when they were really young, remember like, because I was so set on like, I’m like, they’re not gonna carry the same way that I did. The littlest things, right? I would take the wrong turn home from school and then be like, oh man, miss, you know, I’d be cracking eggs to make pancakes and I let the shell go in. Oh, and like just being from like comfortable around stuff being messy mistakes, not right, right. It’s so powerful.
34:47
I love that Michelle. That is such an important point because yeah, a lot of us are like, dang it, you know, or like, I remember I used to forget the water bottle or the sunscreen when my kids were little. And I remember the point when I decided to start saying aloud, whoops, I forgot the water bottle. Cause I realized for a long time, I was saying, oh, I’m such a ding dong. And that was my way of saying I’m an idiot, but I would say it aloud. And it was like, these kids are like,
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three and six, they don’t care that you’re going to be like 10 minutes later to the zoo because you have to go home. Like this is such a, it’s just a mistake. You just forgot the sunscreen and all you need to do is just circle back and, but normalize it, right? Like, so that’s like a little example of a great practice. I’m glad you mentioned that. Okay. So our third point if, um, that we want to avoid to not run ourselves into the ground is this idea of, um,
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high functioning anxiety, thinking it’s normal, when the truth about it is that it’s not normal, necessarily. It’s common, but it’s not normal. And there’s actionable tips that we can do to slow down while still showing up for everything that matters. Yeah. Yeah, think of all of them probably. But of the three, this is probably the one that is the most common to the point where we have normal.
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We think it’s normal. And it’s just kind of that low grade. Like it’s probably not something that’s diagnosable, but it is. It’s that like constant urgency. It’s that feeling like we’re always running behind. It’s that like really losing our patients when our kids are so to put on their shoes because it’s always like, we’ve got to get going. We’ve got to like, and then we find a lot of us, especially that work outside of the home, it’s like, we’re okay all day long.
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And it’s like, am I fine all day long? And then I get home and it’s 5.30 and it’s dinnertime and everything just kind of feels like it bubbles up, right? And then I can’t stand anyone or anything and all of a sudden I’m so tired and I’m just edgy and irritable. And then for a lot of us, that’s how low grade anxiety hits. It’s just kind of this simmering under the surface until we’re able to just have a release where the lid kind of blows off. And I think
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because we don’t necessarily get a diagnosis for it or take medication for it or whatever it is, it’s one of those things we just try to push through, right? Oh, next season is gonna be slower. It’s gonna like, this season is gonna pass or once this ends, I’ll have more time. But we know that never happens, right? Unless we are really intentional about making it happen. So it can be easy to just kind of get swept up. And then I think especially in like motherhood culture, there’s a glorification of like,
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the hot mess express or whatever it is where it’s just like, I’m just this mom who’s always just running around with my hands full everywhere. it’s like, sometimes, yes, absolutely. But most of the time, that’s not a sustainable way of being. That’s not a way to be present in anything. And it will keep your nervous system in a heightened state of alertness, which has a physiological response.
38:05
flooding your system when you’re always hurrying like that and that’s having an impact on all of your different systems and functions within you and how your brain is functioning. So just I think like stepping back and being like, wait a minute, like it doesn’t actually have to be like this. I can make some changes here and boundaries and change my pace and my mindset around a lot of this stuff that will help protect me from burning out.
38:34
Yeah, it’s so it’s so interesting because I look at my own journey with high functioning anxiety and I add an interview to a psychologist about this. We probably aired that episode six months ago and I got tremendous response from that episode because so many people could relate to this. Yeah. And and even for myself, it’s like I know that
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I am on a journey to like not live like that. mean, as an entrepreneur and managing a team of four and the podcast and the community and parenting and all the things like I can see how my, my body, my nervous system or so. And I also look at my, the way I grew up and I see that I pretty sure my mom was like rolling with high functioning anxiety, probably her whole life. And my dad just kind of labeled it as, she’s
39:24
She’s a nervous wreck. She’s a little high strung. She’s a nervous wreck. I’m like, now I’m like, oh, mom, like you just, you got some of that in you, right? And I inherited that very clearly. But as time has gone on and I realized that it is something that you can change, but boy, what a practice. Like what a journey to.
39:51
kind of heal from that and let go of it because it is pervasive. And it sure feels so real that life is so busy and overwhelming. And there’s a million things on our plate when really a lot of times we do create the lives that we live, even though it feels like they are just put in our lap and we don’t have an option. But it’s just so fascinating to me that
40:19
there seems to be like an addiction to chaos or stress that forms. don’t know what your thoughts are on that. Cause it’s something I’m still trying to figure out for myself. It’s like, why? I wonder why it feels so difficult to let go. So I signed a book deal. We’ll be writing a book this spring. And I joke with my team that that’s going to be like my, my forced downtime. And most people, if they thought about writing a book, they’re like, Oh my gosh, I’m like, it’s going to force me.
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to let the team run everything. I’ll show up to do my coaching every week, but I need to sit at the ocean and write for three hours a day. And it’s kind of like my, it’s my way of forcing myself is citing this book deal and I’m excited to write the book. How do you feel about that, Michelle? It seems like there’s an addiction to the stress and the chaos and the dopamine hit comes in when you’re moving fast and
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things feel a little crazy. And I know you mentioned it before of this uncomfortableness of things being slow. What are your tips to move more into the space of comfortableness around non-chaos? Yeah, that’s so good. So I think a few things just to wrap our head around, and then can offer some practical handles that people can walk away with. But I think, one, yes, our nervous system will always prefer the familiar.
41:43
even if that’s not necessarily what’s serving us best, right? Like we can know that this pace is not sustainable and that there’s a cost to it. And at the same time, it can feel almost impossible for us to do things differently because we’ve just done it that way for so long, right? Those patterns in our brain are wired so hard. So there’s a ton of just awareness there, right? And just like catching it when that urgency.
42:08
comes up for when we notice we’ve been in a stretch where it’s like, oh man, it’s been like the last three days, I just haven’t stopped, right? And just getting better at like catching that sooner when it comes up in us. And then I think also when it comes to high functioning anxiety and just our pace is that we do, we get a dopamine hit from, well, one, we get a dopamine hit from like getting stuff done, right? Every time we can like check something off our list or have that like sense of accomplishment, that gives us.
42:37
I mean, ultimately, it’s a cheap hit of dopamine, and it’s not sustainable. So I think there’s an addiction or reliance on that that can happen in our brains. And then when it comes to, like, what do we do about that, right? I think there are a couple things I would start incorporating daily to help kind of combat that. I think awareness is first. We can’t intervene in a world we can’t see. So just notice when that urge is coming up in you to
43:06
stay busy, or do all of the things. And I think if you can incorporate a daily stillness practice, that’s a huge one. And that, for a few reasons, one, especially as moms, we are so overstimulated, right? Like all the noises, all the sounds, all the screens, all the information. So just giving your nervous system, your brain, your body that space can be really helpful to learn that it’s safe to slow down. It’s safe to not be
43:35
be busy all the time. It’s safe to rest, right? Probably have a lot of stories tied up in rest and what it means to rest and what it means to be lazy or productive that we could take a look at. But man, what does that look like? It could be, like you said, going to the beach and writing is going to be moments of probably stillness for you. Just going for a walk over your lunch break instead of sitting at your desk and leaving your phone and your earpods, you know, on your desk. We got AirPods, Michelle. I can’t leave my AirPods out.
44:05
So how can you incorporate stillness? And if it’s like, if you’re like me and that feels really hard, man, so many women that I work with, I’m like, can you start with one minute? Like, can you just sit for one? You know, like just start small and work your way up like you would if you were lifting weights or training for a marathon or something. And then I think the other thing we can do daily that we really underestimate its power and helping to heal a lot of this stuff is play.
44:34
Yes. And not necessarily playing with our kids, although sometimes that would qualify, know, what I’m talking about. But I’m talking about like, how can we engage without this whole big production or this thing we need to like prepare for or have a bunch of stuff for or a bunch of time for? like, man, if you love like, I’m 38 years old. I, before we moved out of Miami, started just going out into the driveway and shooting free throws. Oh, nice.
45:04
brought me back to like eighth grade and there was just something like 15 minutes out there and I went back inside. I’m like, okay, I’m ready to go. Like, let’s go, let’s make dinner. Let’s do these things. I hadn’t done that in 20 years. And maybe for you, it’s like, I don’t know, skateboarding or crocheting or baking or an instrument that you’ve had in the garage forever. Like, but man, we cannot, you know, become moms and then lose.
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our connection to ourselves and all of these things that light us up and make us feel alive and give us energy and ultimately regulate our nervous system and make our bodies trust that all of these things we’re trying to convince that are safe are actually safe. So I think those are two great practices and places to start for any of these people pleasing perfectionism and high functioning anxiety noticing when it shows up.
45:58
starting in a small, tiny little safe way to break the old pattern and show up in the new way of being. And then man starting to incorporate some movement and some stillness and some play every day. Just watch. Yeah, watch what happens. That is such great easy, not easy, but I won’t say easy. Actionable, simple, simple steps. I love that. One of my favorite ways to play is with my little guy. We surf together.
46:27
And it’s just so fun. It’s so fun. And boy, is it a lot to get there because you got, you got to log off work. You got to get the car, the dogs and who’s picking them up if I have to blah, blah, blah. But, but just surfing together has been such a joy, a joyful way of playing because I was never one that was great with like playing Legos or anything with the kids. But if you got me to the tide pools to creature hunt,
46:53
And if we were going to look for an octopus or starfish, I was so into it. And it was one of my favorite ways of play with them. And then surfing has always been. And it makes me really happy that I just booked to go to Disneyland with my 16 year old in like two weeks. We’re headed, we’re skipping school and work and we’re going to Disneyland. And she’s been like actively pursuing a D1 beach volleyball scholarship. And it is so intense. Oh my gosh. And I’m like,
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Let’s get out of town. Let’s just go play. So I love that you said that. Now I realize that that is a way that we can both nurture our nervous systems in a season that is high performance driven. So we’re going to really look forward to that. So Michelle, what a joy you are to talk with. Thank you for being here. Will you let listeners know where they can come find you and find out more about your work and your programs? Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. You make it so easy. You guys can find me on my
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podcast is called the calm mom and we do a lot of nervous system work around anxiety and overwhelm and burnout for mamas and my website is just my name michellegrosser.com and you can find me on instagram at it’smichellegrosser. Amazing. All right. Well, thanks for being here listeners and viewers. Remember we are on youtube now if you’re listening just via audio, make sure you go check us out over on youtube.
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And we’re just so thankful that you were here with us today. Thank you again, Michelle, and we’ll see you next time.
