Today’s episode speaks to any single-parent, families going through divorce, or families who co-parent their kiddos.
Dr. Elizabeth Cohen shares her beautiful wisdom with the Fresh Start Family community on how to heal, grow and thrive following a divorce, no matter how challenging and painful the process may have been.
Today on the show you will learn these 3 Ways to co-parent & find joy past divorce:
- Build a practice of asking yourself who your response is helping (yourself or your kids)
- Get support from others (friends, coaches, therapists, family, etc.), not your own kiddo
- Stay neutral – positive about your ex with your kid (even if you still are angry, hurt, annoyed, etc.)
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Episode Highlights:
- Looking at divorce as a 2nd chapter
- Divorse does NOT = a broken family
- Finding bravery in your divorce
- Processing anger appropriately … and in an appropriate place
- Embracing the overwhelm of co-parenting
Resources Mentioned:
Not able to listen or want to read along with us?
Here is the episode transcript!
Wendy:
This episode of the Fresh Start Family show is brought to you by our free one hour workshop. How to respond versus react to misbehavior with calm confidence, AKA, how to keep your cool and not lose your marbles when your kids push your buttons or make mistakes, you can save your seat over at FreshStartFamily.online.com/freeclass.
Well, hello listeners. I’m so happy. You are here for a new episode. I am your host, Wendy Snyder, positive parenting educator and family life coach. And today we have a really special episode with Dr.Elizabeth Cohen, who is a divorce specialist. She’s actually gonna be speaking about how to co-parent with integrity and how to make divorce, not be kind of the death of your family. You’ll hear us talk in this episode about how divorce does not have to equal a broken family. So this is going to be really good for those of you who you are either single parents and are co-parenting or perhaps you’re remarried and your co-parenting in that capacity. So I know that you’re really, really gonna enjoy it. So Terry’s on the show today. Yay. We got to have him back. And this is also, I know he hasn’t been on the, at the, every single one of our episodes lately, but he’s on this one. So I hope you enjoy hearing his voice.
Wendy:
And I’m just happy. I found this episode, honestly, you guys, this was one of the episodes that I thought I had lost when I switched computers. So if you heard the episode that we aired a few months back with Dr. Christopher Willard about mindfulness, that was such a good episode. But when I switched computers last year, there was some episodes that I thought had just gone like into the abyss. And I was so sad and I felt so bad. But then when I recently found the episodes on a hard drive, I just was so excited because this really is an important one that I really want you guys to hear it because especially recently, I’ve had a few friends who are either on the brink of divorce or really thinking seriously about separating from their spouses.
Wendy:
I just had someone come up to me the last time I spoke at church a few weeks ago and she was like, oh my gosh, I love this so much. I enjoy this workshop. And do you have any resources for single moms? And I told her, oh my gosh, you know, I don’t have that many resources yet, but I just found that episode that I thought I had lost with Dr. Elizabeth Cohen. And you got to listen and it’s going to come out next week. It was actually just a few weekends ago that I saw her. So anyways, I just knew it was perfect timing to air this episode. So anybody who might be going through a divorce or co-parenting or single parenthood, all the things that you can be blessed with, Dr.
Wendy:
Elizabeth Cohen, wisdom and expertise today, and this conversation I think is just going to bless you. So enjoy as always make sure you subscribe or follow over on iTunes to our show. If you haven’t yet, it’s really important that you just push that little button on iTunes. That’s going to make sure that you get notified each week. When we have a new episode, we have experts of all kinds on the Fresh Start Family Show. We also just have episodes where I a solo teach or share with you. What’s on my heart. We also have solo episodes where just Terry and I discuss maybe something that’s going on in our life or something we’ve learned through our own parenting journey. So just make sure you’re subscribed. If you love this episode while you’re listening, I always, always am so grateful when you guys simply take a screenshot and then share, I am very active over on Instagram.
Wendy:
So tag me, share it to your stories. Tag me. I’m at FreshStartWendy. And it just really, really great to get to connect with you guys over there. I do a lot of teaching over on Instagram, a lot of free educational tips and videos and posts that will just help you kind of take what you learn at the podcast through the, through our podcast and take it even into a deeper capacity. So as always, you guys, thanks for listening. If you haven’t grabbed our free guide to raising strong-willed kids yet, you can grab that over on the homepage of the website, FreshStartFamilyonline.com without further ado. Enjoy this episode.
Stella:
Well, Hey there, I’m Stella. Welcome to my mom and dads podcast. The Fresh Start Family Show. We’re so happy. You’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean Jesus and rock and roll and believe deeply in the true power of loving kindness together. We hope to inspire you to expand your heart, learn new tools in strengthen your family enjoy the show.
Wendy:
Well, Hey there, families and Welcome to A new episode of the Fresh Start Family show. We are so excited to be here today with Dr. Elizabeth Cohen. Welcome Elizabeth.
Elizabeth:
Thank you. I’m so happy to be here. Really honored.
Wendy:
Yes. So Dr. Cohen is going to be talking to us today about co parenting and finding joy pass divorce. And this is such an important topic. Dr. Cohen, thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to be here with us. I know that we have a lot of listeners at the Fresh Start Family Show and a lot of members in our bonfire community who are either single parents or remarried. And there is a lot of stress and tension that I hear from them about the co-parenting thing and healing from divorce. So I just, I love what you’re doing in the world. And I love you are a light and we are excited to talk to you about everything today.
Wendy:
So Dr. Cohen is going to talk to us about three ways. You guys can co-parent and Find Joy Past Divorce. Number one is how you can always ask yourself who your response is, helping you or your kid. Number two, she’s going to talk to us about how it’s important to get the support you need from others, not your own kiddo. And then number three, how it’s important to try to stay neutral, to positive about your ex with your kid. I love it. And you guys, Dr. Cohen is a wealth of information. She’s the CEO and founder of the online divorce course and membership after glow the light at the other side of divorce, where is she in this 14 week
Wendy:
Course she teaches women how to heal, grow and thrive after divorce, no matter how difficult the process has been. She offers a monthly membership program. She does one-on-one coaching, where she gives expert support from divorce professionals and an engaged community. We love that community aspect of like-minded people. She has her PhD in clinical psychology from Boston university. She’s the recipient of the prestigious American psychological foundation research award for her doctoral research. And she’s been featured on the Tamron hall show. I watched a clip from that, so good. And then wall street journal, NBC news, women’s health, having to post thrive, global daily beast and good housekeeping.
Wendy:
And she’s a weekly contributor to psychology today with her divorce course column. So I love it. You guys, Dr. Cohen knows her stuff. She’s worked with many, many, many parents and people who have been through divorce. So you are in good hands today. So Dr. Cohen, tell us a little bit before we get started about, you know, how you became passionate about helping people with this, with the subject. I want to know just a little bit more about your story before we get kicked off.
Elizabeth:
Sure. Thank you so much again, for having me. I’m so excited to be able to talk to your community and especially to the parents who are divorced or who are single parents. And as I, I do think that sometimes, and I think it’s so special that you’re bringing me on, because I think sometimes in parenting communities, those families might feel a little bit overlapped. So I’m so glad that we’re putting the focus on that. And that’s really a Testament to how much you care about your community. So thanks for having me here to talk about this. So I became interested. I’ve been a clinical psychologist for over 15 years and 10 years ago, I got divorced. I had two very little kids.
Elizabeth:
I had a six month old and a three-year-old when I asked my ex-husband to leave. And so it was a really challenging time. And I really couldn’t find even as a clinical psychologist, a comprehensive support system for me. So I luckily had resources from training and kind of pieced it together, but I never wanted another woman or man to have to go through that. So that’s how I got here to really create a program that I needed back then.
Terry:
It’s so often that it’s like our own personal testimony that fuels this, you know, that’s, you know, a lot of our with, with Fresh Start Family. So while it sounds like there was a lot of pain attached to that, I imagine you turned it into passion and it sounds like positivity too. So that’s amazing.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. Thank you.
Wendy:
Yeah. And I love how I’ve seen you talk about something that really struck me about your work was how you talk about how there’s a lot of shame associated with the divorce. And even the term that society uses is, you know, a broken family. And I love how I’ve heard you speak to that. Doesn’t that doesn’t need to be the case. It can be a second chapter, you know, there can be healing, it can be a new era, so to speak. So tell us a little bit about that, just to tee it up, if anyone’s listening and they’re like, gosh, you know, I’m feeling a little bit of that shame. Cause I feel like it’s so important to kick that to the curb because as we know, shame is just not beneficial in helping us grow or have good relationships with our ex or just kind of carry our head high when it comes to living our life with our kids.
Elizabeth:
Absolutely. I’m so glad you asked that. I mean, it is really a mission of mine to sh to change the way we look at divorce and to really get rid of that. As you said, the shame and the stigma. I have clients in my office who will still come in and say, I went on a date with someone. They were really great. The only downside is they’re from a broken home. And I, this is 2020, and people are still using that phrase. And I, I really, you know, it gets my hackles up and I think, wait, what, what does that mean? That there, what does that mean? That there was nothing broken. In fact, when people decide that a relationship isn’t working for them in my mind, that is the bravest move you can ever make. You know, what to say for a move to stay in something uncomfortable and just kind of either wait until the kids get older or wait until, you know, maybe the other person changes, but saying something isn’t working for me that is so grave.
Elizabeth:
And I really believe that, you know, our shame and our stigma about divorce comes from patriarchical views because when they first started, it was like anger at women for not staying with their man and in heterosexual relationships. And I think, unfortunately, even though so many things have changed, that that stigma really hasn’t changed. And so I really, I call the women in my program, super women. Cause if you’ve been through a divorce, you have moved mountains. And so it should be praised and seen as, as warriors, as opposed to seeing being seen as broken or a failure.
Wendy:
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And especially like, you know, we have a lot of Christian listeners and I think it gets so confusing to them because they’re like, wait, you know, it’s like, we’re not supposed to get divorced. So like we’ve done something wrong and it’s like, I get it. Like nobody wants to get divorced. Like nobody, of course it’s not the perfect plan for our marriages and it happens and you’re not supposed to live in shame. It’s like, Hey let’s and you’re right. The bravery and the courage part of it is so important because I have seen people stay in relationships for a long, long time. And it’s heartbreaking because it’s right. It’s like detrimental to their lives when it’s joyless and it’s anger filled and it’s, there’s often like toxicosis on healthiness, like abuse even.
Elizabeth:
And it, and it, it percolates out to all parts of your life. So just yesterday I was talking to a friend about my work and she said, you’re so brave with your work. And I said, I think that’s because I had to be so brave in my divorce. It’s you know, when I talk to women who say, well, maybe I’ll say I hear this a lot. You know, maybe I’ll stay, just wait till the kids get a little older or maybe I can get used to this, my heart breaks because I literally feel their light dimming. Like I feel their light in all areas. You can’t suppress your unhappiness and a marriage and be fully present and work. Or I would argue fully present with your kids. Like you can’t compartmentalize like that.
Elizabeth:
First of all, I have no job. We, we can’t act like humans can’t do that. Everything, everything will be hurting. And so I do talk about divorce as the graduate school for relationships. When I got divorced, you know, I could have told so many stories about my ex all these terrible things he did, but I instead decided, you know, who’s the common denominator. Me and I did it. Some people very much like him before I married him. So why am I attracted to these people? And how can I change? And that was the work that there was movement for the other movement of taking his inventory. There, there was no movement. I couldn’t change it.
Wendy:
So good. And you know, just like parenting, oftentimes the hardest relationships are the ones that make you grow the most. Right. So it’s like, of course that’s why, you know, you, I know you help clients with more than just divorce, right? Like, I mean relationships, right? Like there’s so much work, of course there’s effort. And you know, you try to save your marriage and when you can’t it’s oh, okay. You don’t need to hold on to the shame and let’s move to that graduate school now where it’s like, okay, what did I learn from this? What did it teach me? What did it uncover? Let’s peel back the layers of the onion, so to speak and let’s move on and have a joyful life.
Elizabeth:
Exactly. That I couldn’t have said it better myself. That’s exactly right. And just to really embody the healing and the growing that can happen through pain.
Wendy:
Yes.
Elizabeth:
I think what I think what I bring uniquely to this program is also being a clinical psychologist. I’m trained in how to process grief and loss. And I think a lot of programs that I found for divorce were all like, just be happy. Let’s be, and we want to do that, but we also want to acknowledge grief and we don’t have to be afraid of grief. And so I really want people to know they can hold both of those.
Wendy:
Yup. And I’ve seen you speak about the importance of moving through emotions in a healthy way, which were huge here about Fresh Start Family. We teach parents how to do that with teach kids how to do that. And I loved how you talked about like anger in itself, right? Like don’t try to hide anger. Don’t like, think it’s a shameful thing. Like yeah. Righteous, anger. Like it’s okay to be anger. I love to think of anger as like you’re shining a light on something that needs to change. And, and so I love it. Dr. Cohen had talked about how, you know, if, if you, like, if you can sit down and actually fee or do something to feel anger as an example of one emotion to actually feel, she was like, I, you know, I loved how you said, I love to like listen to rage against the machine and just move my body, which by the way, we’re going to see rage against the machine next year in DC.
Wendy:
Yes.
Elizabeth:
We can go
Wendy:
Together. I know it’s going to be such a good show, but I love it’s an important point, right? Because yes, you got to feel those emotions. You don’t need to suppress them. You don’t need to run from them. There is no bad emotion. And as long as you feel it, you’re going to be in a much better place. Hey families, have you heard about the coolest, interactive learning toys for kiddos called Tonieboxes designed for little listeners ages three plus it’s the perfect Storytime companion for tiny hands and active imaginations. The Toniebox is an imagination building screen free digital listening experience that plays stories, songs, and more the Toniebox comes to life when paired with their wind’s ago, collection of Tonies hand-painted characters with hours of stories, to tell worlds, to explore and songs to sing.
Wendy:
Plus you can record and store up to 90 minutes of custom content, which makes it so cool for parents and grandparents who want to connect with their little loved ones from near or far. I’m so happy to tell you that Toniebox is currently offering our community of Fresh Start Family Show listeners, 15% off a Toni box starter kit using the discount code, Toniepodcast. That’s T O N I E. Podcast. You can head to Tonies.com to learn more and get your kid out there. First Toniebox, I can see this being the perfect birthday gift or just an investment into your own sanity mama. Cause you know, you love it when your kid is actually able to entertain themselves.
Wendy:
You can say you can sneak in a hot shower or Pilates workout. Imagine that, all right, go check out. Tonies after today’s episode, but for now let’s get back to the show.
Elizabeth:
Exactly. And I always talk about, I would rather you move your emotions through while listening to music for me, I did it in the bathroom. Then when you’re at the store with a clerk or you’re at divorce, like it’s going to come out, don’t let it come out sideways. Why don’t we be in control of how it’s coming out? And so, cause people say, I don’t want to anger. And I think you’re going to feel it. The question is where do you want to feel it controlled with yourself and process it? Or, you know, when you’re running into your ex’s new girlfriend?
Wendy:
Yes, yes, yes. Cause it’ll often come out with the X for sure. Yeah. Awesome. Well, let’s get into it. Dr. Cohen talked to us for the first point is always ask yourself who your response is, helping you or your kid.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. So I want to start this section, talking a bit about the complexity of getting divorced and co-parenting so you guys know better than anyone. Parenting is so hard. Parenting is really hard when you have a good team.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Elizabeth:
So parenting, when you have decided to dissolve the relationship is really stressful. And it’s often at the same time that you’re managing the details of a divorce, which requires you, as I said, to be a super, super human. So there’s so much parenting is so hard on a good day when everything’s going well. So I just want everyone to understand that if you’re feeling overwhelmed, co-parenting, you’re exactly where you’re supposed to be, because it is almost impossible. It’s asking so much of you. And so when I, whenever I teach about co-parenting, I always ask people to think about the layers of experiences that you’re having.
Elizabeth:
So it might seem like your ex is asking just for an extra day and that’s kind of a logistical thing. Like, oh, do the kids have school? Will they have remote school? What will we do? But then there’s underneath that kind of like an iceberg, all these feelings around it. How will you feel to have them less one day less? How will that make you feel about your relationship with them? How did your most recent mediation group a meeting go with your ex and how are you feeling towards them? Are you having any fear about right. Your ability to go out and date again, is your new, is your new partner going on eighth? And are you thinking they might want to introduce them to their new partner on that extra day?
Elizabeth:
Like there’s so many pieces and it’s a set. I think I give this example a lot where my ex-husband was, his wife was pregnant and I would ask my kids almost every day. Like, how are you feeling? I mean, imagine having a psychologist as a parent right There. Like, so my, I guess he was about nine, my nine. How are you doing? How are you feeling? Because they have lived mostly with me and here was this new baby who was going to live mostly with their dad. And how would that feel? And one day he said to me, mom, we’re okay. You ask us about this every day. Like, are you okay?
Wendy:
Yes.
Elizabeth:
And I thought, damn, this guy’s smart. I was like, yeah, no, I’m not okay about it.
Wendy:
Yes.
Elizabeth:
The one having a really hard time with it. And I always tell that story because what I could have done, if my son hadn’t been so smart was get all into the, like, we should have extra visits. We should have, you know, just all these logistics to help the kids, my quote, unquote, the new baby, when really I needed help managing the new baby. Like it was me was having on her. And so I, I really stepped because he asked me that question. I was really able to say like, okay, nothing really different has to happen. Logistically we don’t have to go to the parenting coordinator. I don’t have to do all this work. I just need some space to feel my feelings, I guess.
Wendy:
Yeah. That’s so awesome because it’s, that’s a hard task. Right. And that’s where like support comes in. Right. I mean, that’s like our next point, as far as like, get the support that you need, because when you realize it’s, it’s, you know, the answer is about you, you’re going to need support to move through that. Right. Once you realize like, oh, a lot of my answers are and how do you actually like put that aside and be like, I’m just answering for the child. Right? I mean, that’s easier said than done, but so important. I know we have some good, good friends who, you know, we’ve watched over the years and they, they, you know, were divorced, they got remarried. And then watching them raise their daughter over the years with an ex involved, it just was really, really not great.
Wendy:
And watching as she became a teenager later in life, their relationship became strained and she really became kind of distance and distanced and started doing some stuff. But it was just interesting because I can only imagine how hard it is. Right. We have many friends even right now that are really having trouble with the co-parenting side of things, but it is it’s painful to watch because there’s such stress revolver and the way the X gets talked about. And it is like really, really toxic and just being an outsider from it, not in a judgy way at all. It’s just because, you know, we don’t have the experience with the divorce.
Wendy:
That’s why it’s so important to have someone like you on Terri did come from a home where divorce was, but it’s it’s, I just see it as a parenting educator, how it’s pretty, it’s pretty intense. Like when that doesn’t get dissolved of like, Hey, how are you going to respond? How are you going to work with the X? What is it about you? Or is it about the kid? It is just gnarly. Do you know that 10 group I’m telling you?
Terry:
No. Yeah, for sure. And it seems like a lot of it, cause I’m, I’m processing like, like where your coaching might come in, I imagine is, is like this example that we’re thinking of is they never really moved through some of those initial steps. I think they, they harbored the anger and I think there’s this like this mama bear, Papa bear thing that comes in of like, and it probably seems innocent enough. And it’s what you’re supposed to do is you’re supposed to fight for the kids fight for the time fight for what you think is right. If there’s any more disagreements that you see of like either morals or values between you and the ex, you have to try to offset it.
Terry:
So if, if X feels over here about something, you’re gonna put it up here. And so, and it just creates this cycle that we saw go on for a long, long time and never, never resolved.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. Well, I think you’re totally right, Terry, because what you’re talking about is if we don’t process our feelings about the ex, then we act it out in our parenting. Just like if we don’t work out our stuff from our childhood, we acted out in our own period. Right. So it’s the same idea. It’s it takes so much kind of like thoughtfulness and mindfulness and present to say, is this about me? Or is this about my ex? Like obviously you and your ex are going to have different co-parenting morals. That’s why you divorce. Right. So it’s no reading for the two of them, right? Like if you’re reading for the two of you to agree on parenting, that will never happen. And so it’s like this idea of how do you, how do you, except that you’re coming from it from different perspectives.
Elizabeth:
And I just see that so often, like you’re still fighting the divorce in the co-parenting they’re still fighting the same fight.
Wendy:
Yeah. And we can, I’m just going to skip a little bit in our outline here, but try to stay neutral to positive about your ex with your kid. And this is what we saw that was not present. And it was like I said, it was very, it was painful to be around. And we see, you know, we saw, we see this family so much and, but every single statement about the ex was gnarly and it was a day, every single time. I mean, literally everything.
Elizabeth:
And it was like a joke. Yeah.
Elizabeth:
That’s like the easier way. I just have to say, like I have, I have so much empathy for that when I used to go to court and I would hear these people screaming at each other across the, you know, the waiting room and family court in New York. And I thought to myself, you know, I would love to do that. Like I am so mad to know that that will not help me, but I was a little envious of them because it, it, it does feel good in the short term. Like I totally get crapping on your act. Like it feels good in the short term, the problem is it just leads to more longterm problems. And so, yeah, but it takes so much work to not do it, but it, it kind of has to be, and you know, it’s interesting cause kids, depending on the ages, but they’re really super smart and they’re constantly testing, will you do it?
Elizabeth:
Cause they don’t want you to do it either. Yeah. And so they’ll set you up a little bit, like tee you up and be like, oh my God, dad did this again. You know the thing, you know, you have to like, you know, it’s so easy to be like, I know it was always like that, you know, and just go on or it, and I always recommend like deep breath, you can always wait 24 hours until you respond. Or you can say, tell me more about that. Tell me more, just have them say it. And then one tip I really want to be clear is if your kid brings something up about your ex that they’re upset about validate, listen, understand, and then say, have you thought about bringing this up to mom or dad?
Elizabeth:
Yeah. All cause that’s a way to support that relationship. You never asked to think you’re trying to cut them out because by the way, naturally we all do. You are right. They’re afraid of that. So if you say your relationship with your parent, it’s really important. Why don’t you talk to them? Or how can you make it better? Then, first of all, just a good feeling that you’re not saying something nasty and you’re really supporting the child and their relationship. A therapist of mine said, you know, one time I was in the office and I said, I just wish he didn’t exist. You know, I just wish I had myself. And she said, I know you feel that way, but your kids, even if he died, you know, I probably said I wanted to murder him.
Elizabeth:
Yeah, she did. Even if you did murder him, that’s what I love about therapy. You can tell you whatever, if you did murder him, they still have a relationship with him. Like they will always have a relationship with their parent. And maybe, I don’t know, Tara, you can relate to this based on your family, but no matter what they do, you have a relationship. The bond is always there. So do you want to help that bond or do you want to make it more difficult? And that’s really the question. I think you need to ask yourself,
Wendy:
Well, Hey there families, I am pausing this episode to invite you to a free class that I teaching all about how to not lose your marbles with your kids when they misbehave pushback or make big mistakes. During this free one hour workshop, I will teach you three steps to responding to misbehavior and messes with firm kindness. You’ll learn about positive parenting psychology and their root causes of misbehavior, the needs that drive our kids, behaviors and misbehaviors. So you can effectively redirect your kids towards the light. You’ll also learn about self calming, how to use pause buttons, to create a space between stimulus and response.
Wendy:
So you can act with cool, calm confidence. When misbehavior needs to be direct redirected, you’ll learn about the power of humility and how it unlocks massive creativity in us all as parents that we need to be able to problem solve challenging situations well with our kids. And then we’ll also talk all about effective modeling ways to practice what we preach. So our kids learn by us showing them not just by us telling them so we don’t end up living life as the recruits. Can I get a heck yes. You can head on over to FreshStartFamily.online.com/responsiveparenting to check out the dates and times that I’ll be teaching, save your seat now.
Wendy:
Right? Yeah. Oh my gosh. And like, as far as like the psychological stuff for a child, because I think about like, again, it’s like as a child grows and I’m always looking at it from like a Draeger psychology based. So like their need to belong, their need to feel powerful, their need to feel valuable. It feels like that erodes when there’s like this kind of not validating, like, like they’re thinking like I love my mom and, and someone else is like, you’re dumb. You’re like, why would you love your mom? Your mom’s an idiot. Your mom is like liver, literally like, like X, Y, and Z, like what is wrong with her?
Wendy:
She’s an idiot. So like, I feel like that erodes at the need to belong. They need to feel valuable. They need to feel powerful, unconditionally loved. And then in my work like that shows where misbehavior is likely to go up. And is that stuff, is that in line with like what?
Elizabeth:
Yes. Yes. Such a good point. I have like chills, as you were saying this binding, cause you’re, you’re bringing to light the pain of the child and you know, I just, what just popped into my head. It’s also the terror you feel when you hear your child, your parent who, Ms. Mary, to your other parent talking negatively about them in a child’s mind. We know, they think, oh, at some point they’re going to do this about me. Yes,
Wendy:
Everyone.
Elizabeth:
That I’m not right. So how can I really, as you said, trust that unconditional love bond. It’s very, very, very threatening. I mean, even when you’re, I always say to people who are divorced, like, look, this kind of stuff comes up when you’re married to like, even when you’re happily married, you know, you have to zip your lip and not say, I know dad is late for dinner
Wendy:
Again
Elizabeth:
From personal experience.
Wendy:
Oh my gosh.
Elizabeth:
So,
Terry:
Well, and I have to imagine, you know, in the, in the divorce scenario too, it’s like, okay, that’s all great, but you can only control your side of it. So I imagined there’s just so much taking the high road because the ex could be not on board with any of this psychology at all and not even want to like listen to it. I’ll be, but by taking the high road, you know, I have to imagine over time, you’re like what you were saying, Wendy, you’re not chipping away at those. You know, all of those needs that the, that the child has at least on your side of the fence. So yeah.
Wendy:
And you’ll be more influential. So like, I believe, you know, the way they influence somebody to come on board with your style of not talking badly about each other, like, you know, not doing X, Y, and Z. It’s like to actually model it because actually model it and be someone who is just holding space for them. And
Elizabeth:
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I, I mean, I could talk about this forever, but I will say that one of the big worries that women at least have about leaving is what if, when we split my ex acts, the way he’s been acting to me, but the kids don’t see it. Like they’re, they they’re worried about that. And they feel like you were saying, Harry, that how they need to say, you know, your dad could do this and this and this and this. And I always say, they will see it. If you continue with the, a rock and not say it, let them see their own experience, let them own experience. It’s like in recovery, they talk about like the dignity to have your own space and your own feeling, like give your ex the dignity to be their own person.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Elizabeth:
Might mean a lot of the work I do with women is saying, okay, I know there’s a lot of things about your ex that maybe you’re not happy with, but what are some of the things that they bring uniquely to your kids that you can’t? I would give this example of, you know, when I take my kids to school, when there used to be school, I would be very like organized and you know, routine. But when my ex would take them, they would sing songs. They would make jokes. Maybe they would sometimes be a little bit late, but I’m not fun like that, like, right.
7:
Yeah.
Elizabeth:
Trying to think about your ex as like sure. Like you were saying to her, maybe they don’t have, maybe they’re not as emotional, but what do they bring? Right. What, maybe it’s just spontaneity because you’re the person, you know, that’s an important skill.
Terry:
So do you make a point, like to, to point that out about the X to the children? Like, what I really love about your mom is, wow, man, she’s always on time or whatever it might be or yeah.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. I love that. Yeah. No, I do. I I’m in my book, that’s coming out and that’s based on the program. I suggest that you actually, yeah. Yeah. I suggest that you do that. I suggest that you actually even write like a fake text, you would send to your ex whether you want to send it or not, even to them appreciating how you do that. Because any conversation you had, I want you to start with the kids had such a great time with you or they love how you remembered what ice cream named like or something like that. Like really specific, because just because you chose to get divorced does not mean they’re the most terrible parents.
Wendy:
Right?
Elizabeth:
So you want it and, and trust me, this is someone who let’s say you send your kids to be with for 50% of the time. It’s a gift to you to think about what they’re doing. Right. You will have a better time.
Wendy:
Yes.
Elizabeth:
If you’re focusing on what they’re doing well, but gifts, they bring, cause we’re all complicated. We have stress strengths and we have weaknesses.
Wendy:
Absolutely. So it’s like, I can imagine the listener right now. It’s like, yeah, yeah. But you know, it’s like kind of like parenting, right? Like the stuff we teach it’s like, in theory, this all sounds great. Right. But like, it’s like that, like, you know, oh, how does the words not come out of your mouth? Like, you know, like I have so many parents who in our bond, fair membership community, we love to be like really vulnerable and real and honest with each other. Right. And so like, you know, sometimes parents will just be like, literally it’s like my hands, I can’t. It’s like Jim Clark, Jim Carrey, and the claw from liar, liar, maybe where you’re like plays with those kids like that, where it’s like, I can’t control myself. Right. Like how can you understand what they do?
Wendy:
Right. So our last point is like, get the support you need from others, not your own kid, because there is no doubt that this is, this is a massive healing process, right? Like I know from the life coaching work, which is basically sisterhood therapy, right? Like it’s life coaching and therapy. It’s like, however, you get your personal development, your support, your growth. However, you let you peel back the layers of the onion. It’s just so important. But I know for me in the last 10 years going through like all the stuff to, to shed my limiting beliefs, not even around divorce, but it’s just been life-changing that has given me the ability to actually have self control, to have self regulation, to be able to bite my tongue, to be able to see the integrity and my children at their worst moments, to be able to take responsibility for my own tone and my own nasty words and ask for forgiveness.
Wendy:
Like all these things are not, we’re not saying it’s going to be like overnight, just go ahead and do that. Go ahead and just start saying nice things about your ex that that’s why you need to get the support you need from a horse like Dr. Cohen has, or the life coaching or a therapist, or so talk to us a little bit more about this and I love how you specify, not from your kid.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. So, And I, I want to say that, you know, I absolutely can understand how the listener would be saying that. Or a lot of times people think like, yeah, well your ex must be really great. Or really like, no, no, like this is, we’re doing this. We are all doing this perfectly and perfectly. Right. So for every time I write a great email and I act, I probably write three that are totally terrible. Yes. So a whole space, whole lot of room for messing up and learning from the messing up. So that’s number one. No one is perfect by any means. It’s a perfectly imperfect number one. Yes. We’re two. I’d love what you said about, this is a process. This is a learning process. It’s like minds me of meditation, like, you know, meditators, don’t like meditate one day and then they’re super human and they do it every single day practice.
Elizabeth:
And the truth is how do you not do the claw in any it’s just pause. And how do you find pause by doing the work by doing, as you said, whether it’s with a therapist, with my life coaching, with my program, with a spiritual person in your life, you mentioned there’s some people who are Christian or a minister priest, like whoever that is, who can help you slow down. Because the answer I think is in slowing down, because if you give yourself that precious pause, you will allow yourself to kind of recharge. And I felt, you know what to do all the people who are listening, even the people who think, I don’t know how I could be nice to my ex.
Elizabeth:
They do know we just need to help them slow down, love themselves enough to hear the answer. I don’t think I have an answer. They don’t have, it’s just being able to hear it from inside.
Wendy:
Yup. And, and I like, like, I, I, the, and the firmness, like, you know, I work with a lot of parents who like, are almost having an easier time being way to farm. Like sometimes we’ll have parents, but they’re more like less, but they’re there for sure who have a hard time with like, I’m too permissive. Right? Like we always teach parents to find the middle ground between too firm and permissive or too kind. And, and I know like a lot of parents will think that it’s like, they’re, they can actually work with their kid.
Wendy:
So I love this idea too, of like no, what you’re really firm about and, and firmness around. Don’t come to your kids for the support. I think it should be something that is like, just don’t do it. Don’t do it before.
Elizabeth:
Like right. There are some like exactly good point. Like there’s some things you want to be flexible in. I, I can not say it enough. Your child is not your friend. Your child cannot support you in your divorce. Your child cannot send messages between the two of you. Your child can not report on the other person. They are a child. They are to be loved and carried and nurtured through a traumatic experience that they’re going through. They are not your friends. They are not your therapist. They have terrible credentials.
Wendy:
They are.
Elizabeth:
And if you involve them, I mean, every time you involve them, you are not, you are, you are hurting them, but I’m telling you you’re elongating your own pain, right? Like you just are just let them be. Paula therapist, call a spiritual person, call a friend. I have a whole section in my program also about what’s the best type of friend. A lot of times people call the wrong person. A lot of times we’ll call the person. Sometimes these can be in your family who are not going to support you. So I have a whole kind of taxonomy of the different kinds of people and who to reach out to. And actually on my website, you can, and on my Instagram, you can get a link to how, to, how to get support from your friends, like the best ways, but really think about getting support outside your child is not, is not available to do that.
Elizabeth:
And honestly, not to sound harsh, but it will come to bite you. They will resent you from having done that. They will come to you, whether it’s when they’re 20, 30, 50 and say that was really unfair.
Wendy:
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So we work with a lot of parents. We always try to teach them to find the middle ground between two firm and two kind. Right. And we have a lot of parents who gravitate easily to, to from their, like, they can crack the whip easily and they’d come. And they’re like, man, I cracked the whip too much, but this is where a good place to crack the whip. Right? Like, no, no. Don’t use the child right
Terry:
I think, you know, when you described, like, they’re not your friend in this scenario, I think it’s like, you know, parents, I have to imagine. I’ve never, you know, obviously we’re happily married, but I’m seeing a lot of divorces and growing up in a house with divorce, it’s like, there’s probably is this kind of look of like, well, here’s this person over here that if I can form some sort of a Alliance with, and if I can just make this little thing, right. And they’re like you said, this could, you know, come in the form of, you know, messaging or a little bit of gossip or things like that. It’s, it’s not that you shouldn’t have a friendly relationship with your child.
Terry:
It’s just, you’re now starting to like look to them to help get you up and out of this. When, like you said, they don’t have the credentials to do that. And if you’re looking at your zooming out and looking at the big picture, right. It’s very unfair because they’re already going through something very hard.
Wendy:
Yeah,
Elizabeth:
Definitely. Exactly, exactly.
Wendy:
And I know, I know your program, Dr. Cohen goes through, basically everything we’ve talked about in detail, I’m sure
Elizabeth:
Exactly. And it covers some other parts too, like dating again, processing the loss, creating a life you want by design, not by default. Like really it’s a comprehensive, it’s like for people who can’t get to therapy, because it’s really difficult or expensive, it’s kind of a comprehensive plan to really move you through this time.
Wendy:
Nice. And I love, I will say everything after talking to you for the last 45 minutes, I know everything you are teaching parents is completely in line with what then translates into your parenting. So having grace and empathy and self-control and self-regulation and forgiveness and trusting and all these things like when you have them in one area, you want to get it in all the areas in your life. So I love that you are serving families in this way. Where can listeners find you Dr. Cohen?
Elizabeth:
So listeners can find me, my website is DrElizabethCohen.com, which is D-R and on Instagram. I’m the divorce doctor. And on Facebook, I’m also the divorce and on Instagram are really where all of the free information is in my bio. So that’s really a good place to go. Or you can go to my website and I love to answer questions. If people are struggling or having questions, we do individual work as well. I do VIP work. I have clinicians who work with me too. So if any of your listeners have any questions, they can feel free to reach out.
Wendy:
I love it. Well, thank you so much for being here. We’re so grateful for your time. We’re grateful for the work that you’re doing. Thank you for being a light. Thank you.
Elizabeth:
Oh, so great. Thank you
Wendy:
For links and more info about everything we talked about in today’s episode, head to FreshStartFamilyonline.com/119.
Stella:
For more information, go to FreshStartFamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening. Families have a great day.
Wendy:
Alright, families, that’s a wrap. I hope you love today’s episode. As much as I loved recording it for you. If you want to learn more for me, one of the best ways to do that is to hop into one of my free workshops. This month. I’m teaching all about responsive parenting and you can join me by saving your seat over at FreshStartFamilyonline.com/freeclass.
