In this episode of the Fresh Start Family Show, Wendy chats with Arlene Pellicane – speaker, host of the Happy Home podcast, and author of several books including Screen Time: 5 Relational Skills Every Child Needs in a Tech-Driven World.
They get real about the science and logic behind delaying putting devices in the hands of children.
Out of an abundance of love, we as parents have the right and responsibility to help decide when it is an appropriate time to expose our kids to “digital candy” – as Arlene calls it – aka smartphones and social media.
Wendy & Arlene discuss when is the “right time” for a smartphone for our kids as well as why their families (as well as tech giants like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates!) waited, despite the intense societal norms of today.
Our kids might push back, which may feel uncomfortable, and that’s ok.
The science and research are showing more and more that delaying screens is the healthier way to go, and looking out for our kids’ mental and physical well being is something we’ll never regret. That’s something I think we can ALL agree on!
Want to learn how to respond vs react to misbehavior with calm confidence?
Strategies taught in this workshop work with kids of ALL ages to decrease misbehavior, increase cooperation & build connection in your home!
Click HERE to save your seat!
Episode Highlights:
-It’s ok to go against the grain and teach our kids ‘it’s cool to be different’
-There is no “right” or “magic” age or grade – we can look at each child individually
-Giving our kids technology too soon is like giving them an impossible task
-Know your options for workarounds because smartphones are not a necessity
-Educating and empowering our kids with knowledge around how it impacts them is key
-Even if we’ve given our kids phones, we can always do a detox if we notice they are changing and not themselves
-Delay as long as possible and trust that it is the best thing for our kids
-Hobbies, sports, friends, etc are important to fill their time and let them know there is more to them than their phone
-Our bravery and courage to do things differently can inspire others to do the same
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Where to find Arlene:
Wait Until 8th Pledge Wendy Loves
Free Responsive Parenting Class
Special thanks to Parent Playbook and Tonies for their support of
The Fresh Start Family Show!
Not able to listen or want to read along with us?
Here is the episode transcript!
This episode of The Fresh Start Family Show is brought to you by our free one hour workshop, How to Respond Versus React to Misbehavior with calm confidence, aka, how to keep your cool and not lose your marbles. When your kids push your buttons or make mistakes, you can save your seat over at freshstartfamilyonline.com/freeclass.
Wendy:
Well, hello listeners and welcome back to a new episode. I’m your host, Wendy Snyder, positive parenting educator and family life coach, and I’m pumped for you guys to listen to this episode with Miss Arlene Pellicane. Oh my goodness, was this such a rich, natural, just inspiring conversation you guys, I’m really excited for you to hear it. We talked about how to make really wise screen time decisions for our families and chatted about things like when is the right time for us to get our kids a smartphone? Other things like what if you feel pressured to get the latest game phone, et cetera, and even how are screens really impacting the development of our kids?
So chatting with Arlene really was just such a pleasure. And like I said, she is beyond inspirational. So if you don’t know Arlene’s work yet, she is a speaker host of the Happy Home Podcast and author of several books, including Parents Rising, 31 Days to a Happy Husband and Screen Kids. She’s been featured on the Today Show, Fox and Friends and The Wall Street Journal and Focus on the Family. And the coolest thing is that we realized is she lives in San Diego also. She’s about maybe 45 minutes south of me. I’m in North San Diego, she’s in South San Diego. But we over, we even realize realized through this episode that our kids had possibly even attended the same youth group event at our church called The Rock here in San Diego.
So it really was just a great conversation and I know that you guys are going to love to hear from Arlene. She’s not only an incredible educator and author and just outspoken advocate in this space, but she has three beautiful children and she really is someone who walks the walk and talks the talk when it comes to just raising healthy kids in relationship to screens. Also, guys, it is Christmas time coming up soon. So I know many of you are thinking about just maybe, maybe getting a phone and putting it in your kids stocking or making it one of their big presents this Christmas. And I wanna remind you that we are huge advocates for healthy safe phones for kids.
So if you are thinking about doing that this Christmas, I really wanna encourage you to head over to freshstartfamilyonline.com/gabb, G A B B and freshstartfamilyonline.com/troomi T R O O M I. What you’re gonna find at those two URLs is information about two separate companies that we love to just really support because they are doing wonderful work in the world to make sure kids stay healthy with screens. So Gabb is a healthy KidSafe phone company and what I love about them is they have a watch, which I know a lot of kids and parents love for their kids to be able to have a watch.
And then Troomi is a company that they don’t have a watch yet, they have phones, but that’s actually the company that my kids used for a long, long time. Stella finally moved on over to an iPhone when she went to high school, but Terrin still uses his Troomi every single day. So you’ll hear Arlene and I talk about this in this episode, but like I said, if you’re going to make that jump and you really do wanna get ahold of your kids, but also do your best to really keep them in that safe space where they’re not being exposed to all these things with normal smartphones, then head on over and check out those two companies that we love here at Fresh Start Family. Once again, those URLs are freshstartfamilyonline.com/gabb G A B B and the other one is freshstartfamilyonline.com/troomi.
T R O O M I. Both of them always have a killer sweet deal they give our community here at Fresh Start Family. So you can use a little coupon code to get a discount when you grab those incredible kids safe phones. Oh, I’m excited for you to listen to this episode. Without further ado, enjoy and help me welcome Arlene to the show.
Stella:
Well, hey there, I’m Stella. Welcome to my mom and dad’s podcast, The Fresh Start Family Show. We’re so happy you’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean, Jesus, and rock and roll and believe deeply in the true power of love and kindness. Together we hope to inspire you to expand your heart, learn new tools and strengthen your family. Enjoy the show!
Wendy:
Well hello there families and welcome to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family Show. I am really happy to be here with Arlene Pellicane, who’s a speaker, author, and host of the Happy Home podcast. Welcome to the show Arlene.
Arlene:
This is so much fun Wendy, thank you so much for having me.
Wendy:
Yes, we are gonna have a really good chat today about how we can make great screen time decisions for our family and we’re also just gonna get to know each other Arlene and we’re gonna get to know each other a little bit while our audience gets to know each other a little bit cuz I’m coming in hot from a, from a summer juggle camp drop off and you know you’ve got a kiddo coming home from camp soon. So we decided just to get to know each other here as we’re recording. So before we get into our discussion of the day that I’m really looking forward to chatting with you about Arlene, will you tell us a little bit about yourself, how old your kids are, what part of the world you live in and what your journey has been like and why you’re so passionate about how you serve and support families?
Arlene:
Yes. This can actually tie in really well with screen time because we have been kind of like that weird screen time family. So we have three kids, my husband James and I, we have a son Ethan, who is just about to go to college. So he is the first born going away to Cal Poly Pomona. He is very much not like me, you know, when you graduate, what do I do with my life, where should I go? You know, he’s always known like I wanna be an engineer, so let’s just look at the engineer. So it’s been very kind of very drama-less. So he’s going to college and then I have a junior named Noel and I have an eighth grader named Lucy. So one boy, two girls. We live in San Diego, California. We have a golden doodle named Winston. And you know, I was an older mom, we got married at 27, we tried to get pregnant right away, really had a lot of trouble, wasn’t really expecting that at all.
And so after having fibroid surgery, getting those removed, I was like, wow, I can have a baby. So I think just that journey towards this wasn’t this instant thing of like, oh look, I wanted to have a family and I have one, but this trust and this waiting really made it when that first baby, you know, when Ethan came out it was like, Oh look, we have one. You know? So it’s been a lot of fun for us to not just have one, but even to have three. So, so we’re super grateful. We love being parents, we are of the, the philosophy that you’ve gotta have that couple though first that we try not to be that child centered everything going around the children family so that they are part of our world, but that, you know, they are not the world.
So, and that’s kind of helped us to I to be able to say, Hey, you know what, we see this screens are really distracting, divisive, addictive, time stealers. So from the very beginning we’re kinda like, you know what, we’re gonna be different. So that’s, that’s a lot of our journey and we have seen that it works and that’s why we’re so like, you know what this is, you know, it’s not for everyone, but this is a good way and I’ll tease that by telling you. So we did not get a smartphone for my oldest until he graduated from high school and that was part of his choice when he was a senior in high school. We started talking about it and, but it was also that he’d have to start paying for it too, like part of it. And he’s super frugal, so he was like, Nope, I’m good.
It’s like I have no problem not having one. So none of our kids have smartphones. So again, we have, you know, almost college 11th grade and eighth grader.
Wendy:
That’s amazing. Yes. Well it’s so fun to meet and get to know another weird screen family
Arlene:
Know they’re alive and they’re okay and they have friends and they can do sports. It’s okay, you know, it’s, it’s really funny.
Wendy:
Yeah, they can make it.
Arlene:
Yeah. That’s
Wendy:
So cool. Well I didn’t know that we were, you were in San Diego too, so how cool I think we met through, it was either Troomi or Gabb that were both brand ambassadors or affiliates for
Arlene:
Gabb.
Wendy:
Yeah, love, love those organizations. And so I didn’t realize you were in San Diego and Yes, how cool. It’s, it’s really nice to meet someone else and to, and to have a conversation and to have listeners really hear from somebody who has done this. Right. So we’re not quite as courageous and amazing, but we made it till eighth grade, so we joined the wait till eighth pledge. Yeah. With our daughter. She just we’re like, we’re like, hallelujah, we made it because holy smokes, it was a journey and I know, you know, you know how it can just so many conversations that happen and it’s just really interesting to kind of be a black sheep in the screen time world and it has been absolutely life giving and amazing and so beneficial for her. And so my little guy who’s 11, he’s on, he’s on the same train, but that is so inspirational to hear that you had one make it all the way through graduation.
And then of course nowadays, you know, we have this big movement happening where people are, who have had full blown adults who have had iPhones or now going back to dumb phones, there’s like a company called The Light phone and the branding
Arlene:
And it’s really sleek. Yeah, it’s gorgeous. Like it makes you feel like I am in this minimalistic world where I am so modern, like the marketing is genius and that is so interesting, right, that after you’ve tasted, Yeah, okay, I’ve drawn from the fire hose too much and now I’m ready to just kind of simplify my life so we can kind of bring that back and make that cool for teens too.
Wendy:
I know, I know. I am like this close to like getting one of those and I have a good friend that does it. She just slips out her little, her little sim card every day at four o’clock when she checks out of her office day. She’s an entrepreneur and I just am watching her journey right now and I’m like, yeah cuz I’ve got, I’ve got my whole, my whole own thing about screens going on is an entrepreneur. So it’s all good, but, Well, awesome. Well very cool Arlene. Well let’s jump right in and let’s kick this off with the first kind of point we’re gonna chat about. And I know parents wonder this all the time and wi and if you, if you don’t have anyone ever tell you to really think twice about when is the right time for a smartphone for your child, it’s very easy just to like jump right into society, right?
Because most kids, Yeah, I mean it makes sense. The the idea of like, hey, we work or we need to keep in touch with our kids and it makes total sense if that you would want your fourth grader, let’s say, or even, you know, smartphones are being put into the hands of kids very, very young without parents even realizing the detrimental effects. But you know, it makes sense that you would wanna keep in touch with them. It makes sense. It would help keep them safe if they’re ever riding their bike home and they have danger. So I’m just so thankful that we’re having this intentional conversation to help parents really put a lot of thought into, okay, well when is actually the right time? Not what society tells us, but for our family, for what the research we’ve done the research, you, you know, you’ve your expertise or whatever.
Yeah. Tell, talk to us about when is the right time for a smartphone.
Arlene:
Yeah. And for us as parents, caregivers, to realize every child is different. So it’s not gonna be like, okay we’re we’re waiting, we’re gonna write down the number 13 and then we’re all gonna do it. You know, it’s not like that. It’s like, okay, every child is different. You might have one child who at 13, this is awesome and this is a great addition to their life and another child who’s 19 and it’d be the death of them. You know, so, so you do have to kind of look at your children and how they’re wired, how do they respond to it, et cetera. And then obviously you’re studying them beforehand. And so I think we have to first of all ask ourselves what is this phone for? So let’s say we are having this conversation, when is the right time? Okay, what do we need it for?
And if the answer is well because everyone else has one or because this is how I’m gonna stay in touch with my friends, or this is how I’m gonna do my homework, then we have to kind of push back and say, wait a minute, are there other ways to get in touch with your friends? Are there other ways to do your homework? Cause the truth is, it’s just the easy thing to do. It’s like, let’s just add a phone to our plan and be done with it and move on with life. It truly is just this easy thing to do. But once you push that button, it’s like, wait a minute, I wasn’t ready for this. I wasn’t ready for this constant monitoring, I wasn’t ready for these mean texts. I wasn’t ready for these threats on social media to my children. I wasn’t ready for endless time video gaming in the middle of the night and me having to like go, you know, into the room all the time and stop it.
I wasn’t, I didn’t think I was signing up for all this. So you really, yeah, have to think twice and realize, wait a minute, it might be convenient right now, but in three months, six months, nine months, are you like, what have I done? You know, so just have that in mind. What do I really need it for? So then with your child, it’s like, wait a minute, this is a very expensive item. I mean, can you imagine like for you and I were older, like if someone handed us, oh here’s a $500 thing that’s just like three inches wide, good luck with keeping that. I mean, you know, like you’re gonna lose it, you’re gonna do, I mean we would’ve never been able, allowed to have such a like expensive thing on us all the time. Like yeah, who would trust like a 10 year old, a 12 year old, a 14 year old with this super expensive thing in our day and age, let’s say.
So part of it is like, is your child responsible? So before you get this phone, they’re gonna say, Mom, if you get this phone for me, I will do my chores, I will walk the dog, I will have my homework done, I will, I will dock it where you want me to dock it. If you tell me to take a social media app off, I will. Like, they’re gonna tell you everything you wanna hear. Yeah. They’re gonna make a PowerPoint slide presentation. You’re gonna be like charmed and you’re gonna be like, Oh my word my child is so responsible.
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All right you guys go check out Tonies after today’s episode ends. But for now, let’s get back to the show.
But the truth is, okay, what do they do now? Do they do the dishes now? Do they do their laundry now? Do they walk the dog now?
Do they do their homework without being asked now? And if they answer to those questions are not really, then it’s like no it’s not, they’re not ready. Because if they’re not being responsible with what they already have, then it’s kind of insanity to think, oh, let’s give them this high powered, high addictive device and see how they do with it. So just from practicality, is your child responsible? And if they’re proving themselves responsible, then okay, we can start to have this conversation. But again, I really wanna push back on that. Oh, they need it to, let’s say do well in school. So like we’re talking about, my kids go to public school, so they’ve done the online experience through Covid, obviously in person now it’s a large school and my son’s graduating class, there’s 600 kids, you know, so it’s not like we’re living like under this rock, you know, and they obviously they communicate via text and group text, blah blah blah, blah.
But what my son did was he got a Google Voice number, which, so he could text his friends this way using the computer because the deal is with the phone, it’s like, it’s always with your child, it’s the location and then how do you wean them off of it? It’s so much responsibility for them. I like to call it digital candy and it’s like being a, like putting a one pound bag of m&ms around their waist and saying, Hey, good luck buddy, just, just eat 10. I know it’s around your waist and I know you’re carrying it all the time, but just like none of us could do that. And it’s the same way with digital candy for just like, hey, just use this for the things you’re supposed to use it for. And it’s like in their pocket, in their room, like they’re not gonna be able to do it. So to realize there are workarounds.
So that whole, you know, so a lot of times the kids will use my phone and they’ll check like a social media app because they’re looking at what, where is, when is our group meeting, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So all these group meetings where, where, where are we meeting for youth group, where is the tennis group meeting, where are my friends meeting? Are we going to the mall today? All those kinds of questions that you think you need a smartphone for. All of my kids have been able to figure it out with either a Google voice number with my phone or just recently, as you can understand, we got a home Gabb wireless. So Gabb phone, which is a regular phone, it’s not a smartphone, but just to text and all this. So there are workarounds and I love to tell people, you know, and I have to be careful with this, so my son was valedictorian.
So I love to tell people, you know, they, they do kind of okay, like, like academically they can figure this out even in that they didn’t have the latest smartphone to take a screenshot of the homework. You know what I mean? Like they could write on paper, it makes them smarter. Like it’s gonna be fine. So academically, I don’t think you have solid ground and then you’ll go, okay, socially my poor child, like they’ll be isolated, they’ll miss everything. I was just talking to a friend who her son who is in eighth grade broke up with a girl. And so now they’re like totally smearing him on social media even including like very, very ugly, like things you would call the police over Why?
So we think that’s socially like is that the social you want? You know, it’s kinda like this is not the social I want, The social I want is like people having ice cream after school or people going to each other’s houses or people like doing an activity together or people going to the mall. All those things can be done without a phone. And in fact, you know, you look at all that, all the research of kids who are on social media, I think in 2012, 41% of teenagers had smartphones and that’s gonna rise really high to 89% and 2018. So you’re gonna see kids are adopting the smartphones. So what’s happening to them? Well we look at the mental health numbers, you look at the suicidal ideation numbers, you look at the ER visits, you know, I think the ER visits from kids in that same period of time is up, you know, like they said 329% I think like crazy numbers.
And these things are correlated. So for us to think we’re gonna get a phone so they can be socially more satisfied, we’re kind of like, wait a minute, we living, we’re living in the, we’re living in a like la la land. Like this is not, this is not the case now this is against the grain. And that’s what’s the problem I think for a lot of parents is they feel like, well you know what, the sink, the ship is sinking, but everybody’s on it. You know, so, so I might as well put my kid on it cuz they’d rather sink with everybody else than stand secure alone. But that’s, I think the joy and beauty, it’s the hardness of parenting. So when we talk about technology, these are things even with little kids that you’re explaining so that you’re not just like, I’m just the mean mom who doesn’t wanna adapt to all these things, but it’s like, no, I understand the power of this technology and we need to talk about that before we just give it to you.
And to realize, let’s say you do give the smartphone and you have your really neat contract that’s super tight and awesome, but you have to realize these are kids, these are not business associates. There’s no court you can take them to when they don’t keep their end of the board. You know, so they’re not necessarily going to honor that contract long term. So for you to realize you can’t just be like, oh, well they promised to do X, Y and Z. You know? And obviously if they don’t keep their end of the bargain, there’s, you know, you can take away the phone, you can talk about it and maybe you’re realizing it’s not so much that they, they’re doing, they’re not breaking the rules per se, but you’re noticing, wow, they’re not as happy. They used to dance all the time and now they don’t dance.
They used to play soccer after school. Now they don’t do that anymore. They used to come out of their room a whole lot more. They don’t do that anymore. They used to wanna go hang out with friends on the weekend, now they just wanna stay in the room, play video games. Like you see these patterns not just once, but patterns. And that might be time really to have an apology to say, you know what, child of mine, I gave you this phone, maybe you’ve had it for three years. You know, I gave you this phone by seeing like these things happen in your life. I’m observing these things and I know I want better for you, more for you. So we’re gonna do an experiment, we’re gonna go, you know, phone free for three weeks and we’re gonna just kind of have a conversation after that. And you know, no kid is gonna be like, Oh, you’re gonna save my life.
You know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna be like the brunt of, of, you know, doors are gonna slam silent treatment. You’re ruining my life. How could you do this? I mean whatever. And to realize though, you know, that’s all part of it. So if you can play that movie and realized I don’t want that, then you could just say, Hey, we’re not getting the phone this year. You know? So a lot of it is just delay, delay, delay. Like whenever you think it’s the right time, you know what child, why don’t we wait one more year and talk about this in a year? And even though the kids are like, Oh, I think inside, once they know and can compare, they’ll probably realize like, oh yeah, my life is a lot simpler when I’m not on social media, when I’m not constantly checking, when I’m not always like streaming YouTube so that my mind is numb and I can’t do anything else.
You know, your child could even recognize even as a, a teenager, like, hey, wow mom, you were right. I feel like when they’re adults they’ll be able to say, Mom, you were right, but maybe even as a teenager they might be able to say it.
Wendy:
You, yeah, my gosh, Arlene, this is everything. Like you are speaking such incredible wisdom and I am just everything. I’m like, Yes, yes, yes, yes. I’m so just so excited for community to hear this, but it’s, it’s still so Stella, she just, she’s about to turn 15, my oldest. Yeah. And there was years there where it was a lot of tearful discussions, right? Like, so your middle is your girl.
Arlene:
Yep. And so she would be, and she’s gonna turn 16 in the middle of the year. Yeah.
Wendy:
Okay. So I don’t know, that’d be interesting. I mean, there’s so many things I wanna ask you right now. So I’m just gonna start going. So it’d be interesting to hear how your experience with her versus him was, right? Yeah. Because the, the girls and the social apps, but, but in it, so in a second I’ll have you chime in on that, but there was, you know, there was many years of tearful discussions and beautiful moments of connection where, you know, I just got to explain all these things that you’re talking about, right? Like future cast for them, even though you have the uncomfortable feelings of like, what if I am like making this kid the black sheep and the outcast. I love by the way, using the term against the grain, I often say outcast, like it’s cool to be an outcast, but I like against the grain a little bit better.
Yeah. But there was moments for sure it’s happened a few times where my daughter has said to me, you know, I’ll, I’ll educate her about the addiction side or let her know that unfortunately she’ll start to see friends who, who, you know, you’ll start to see the addiction and I hate it, but you’re gonna see the anxiety show up in your, some of your friends. And there have been plenty of moments where she says to me, not necessarily you’re right, she’s like my strong willed kid. But she said, I can’t remember exactly, but she said something to the effect of like, Mom, I see it now, I see it everywhere. And you know, there have been moments where I, the words might not be exactly, you were right and I’m so thankful that you held me back. Yeah. But they have been like, Wow, like this makes sense.
And now I’m, I’m seeing the world from a different perspective. If I was in the hamster wheel, I wouldn’t be able to see what’s happening with my friends and see how it’s good to hold back. But because I’m not in the hamster wheel, I’m able to see it. So that’s pretty cool. But maybe just chime in for a second about how they experience with your daughter has been a little bit different or maybe it hasn’t been different at all for you.
Arlene:
Yeah, it’s such a great question. And during the pandemic, while the kids were all here, I made them, I made a little home documentary asking them these questions so you can actually, for your community to hear it in their own words. I think it’s really effective. And you could have your daughter watch it and what it’s called, it’s called Screen Kids, which is the name of my book, Screen Kids in Their Own Words. And you’ll find that at happyhomeuniversity.com and you can watch the watch it for free or you can make a donation and you’ll see like a longer version that has my husband and I in it, but also a short 15 minute version that’s just my kids talking that your could show to your children. But here’s the deal, deal. So in one way they’ve been very similar, the boy and the girl that they’ve both kind of grown up with this idea of, I’m in the Matrix, I know what’s happening and I know I’m okay without this and I’m just gonna kind of make do, and actually it’s gonna be better for me.
So they’ve kind of in the background, you know, all throughout growing up they knew like, this is what’s gonna happen to us. Like this is, there’s no surprise here. And in the absence of the phone, there’s got to be the presence of like really fulfilling things. So hobbies, sports, yeah. Friends, books, music. So it’s not just like, oh, I don’t have a phone and I just like sit here and stare at my naval, but it’s okay, I don’t have a phone, but look, I’ve got a pile of books to read and I’ve got music to compose and I’ve got a skateboard to ride. Like, so that’s kind of what you’re really trying to give your child appetite for. So I believe because my boy and my girl both had appetite for that. It wasn’t this earth shattering difference between the genders, you know, between the two saying, Hey, you’re not gonna have social media, you’re not gonna have a phone.
I will say though, like for my son Ethan, like I was saying for him financially, he’d just be like, Oh, I’ll skip it. But if on her, in her senior year, if we tell my daughter like you could have a phone, she’d be like, Oh great, I’m getting one. You know? So that’s the difference that she would be more like, Oh, I do wanna get one. But, and her reason is she wants to like be like her clubs and her hobbies and things like that. She’d like to be able to follow more herself on, on her with her own phone and you know, to have a phone and all that. But, so I think there is that difference that she would be more interested than my son, but either way, with either sex, like don’t let it be a cop out to think, well the girl needs it more socially, so maybe I’ll give it to her because they both, like for a boy, you know, there, there’s, you know, obviously just sharp swords for either pornography for boys and for girls, but largely for boys.
The social media for girls, like these are things really poking just like sharp, dangerous objects that we need to be like, you know what, let’s just wait one more year. Let’s, let’s not have you be a sixth grader having middle school drama and then you being a middle school or having high school drama and then you being a high schooler, having young adult drama. Like, let’s kind of push that back. Yeah. Let’s enjoy being kids.
Wendy:
Yes. And it is so true coming just out of the middle school years, Stella, you know, just graduated from eighth grade. It has been, I remembered that about like my own journey when I was in middle school. And because we have that kind of connected parenting way of life in our, in our world, it was really cool to see how Stella was able to operate differently within this group. And it was intense, Arlene, I mean the, the swords and the just immaturity and the unkindness and then you add, there was so many times where, you know, people would, you know, she like had a moment where she had showed emotion or something about an argument. They were outta sleepover.
They would, they would picture it, Snapchat it and then spread it to everybody and she wasn’t on the app. And so it was just so like intense to see that like way of operating go down in those circles. Yeah. And it was still happening even though she didn’t have the app and she didn’t have the phone, but at least she wasn’t immersed in it. Yeah. And but it was intense like that that drama and that and, and they’re just, they’re kids, right? They’re gonna make mistakes, they’re gonna learn. But it is that the idea of the digital candy and the opportunity to make mistakes is so much greater when it’s in their hands.
Arlene:
Yes.
Wendy:
And like you said, you just, I think you anything good, right? If you’re developing a skill set to be against the grain, you have to develop those muscles to become a little bit uncomfortable in certain situations, right? Yeah. But there’s been many times over the years where I’m like, oh, this is uncomfortable, right? Like her volleyball, she was a double indoor and beach and like her indoor, we traveled all over the US and there were so many times where they’re like, okay, well we’ll text everybody to know where they’re going. And there was moments where it was like, well, remember you can’t like, cuz she’d have her iPhone. Yeah. Like sometimes at home she would use a iPhone, what’s it called? An Apple email address for some text and then out in the world, right? She had her Gabb or her Troomi.
And it was just uncomfortable at times to have to raise her hand and be like, Okay, coach, remember that Stella doesn’t have a phone, she doesn’t go out of, out in the world with an iPhone, so you can’t text her, you’re gonna have to text me. And, you know, you just feel like a little bit of the black sheep and
Arlene:
Totally
Wendy:
To just to have like that ability to take a deep breath and future cast and remember that it’s cool to be different is what I always try to tell myself.
Arlene:
And even even saying, showing that, that to show that’s an option. Yeah. It’s really cool because someone else might be like, Oh, I didn’t even know I could do that. And then it’ll be like, Oh, I’ll get my kid off their device too. Like there is power in that community, even if you have just one other friend with a similar age child who’s doing it, then it’s like, oh my goodness, I’m not crazy. Like I can, I can do this, You know? And to realize, okay, this might feel like I’m inconveniencing, I’m just like you, Like I don’t want an inconvenience. Like I, that’s what would make me cave. Like, I don’t want you to feel inconvenience. I want my child to be able to, to be able to get everything like that, you know, I don’t wanna give the teacher extra work or whatever, but to realize you’re giving Stella such a gift, like she is getting so, so there’s that little inconvenience there.
But then look at the inconvenience on the other side, right? So that those kids were con that was very convenient and great, but then now they’re up to 11 o’clock like staring at all these things that your daughter isn’t even like, it wasn’t part of her world then. So yeah. So there’s, there’s a huge benefit that outweighs that little sliver of inconvenience.
Wendy:
Yes, it’s so true. And it’s, I think often good to remember too that before you make that decision, we do have like a healthy power. Anytime there’s things that we have to buy and pay for, for just to say like, Hey, we’re not gonna do that. Yeah. It’s so much easier, right, than taking things away or entering into power struggles where you’re having to manage it. But it’s, it is a, it is an opportunity to be in an empowered state when you say no. And what we teach here at Fresh Start Family is there’s always a yes behind your nose. So most of the time, like we, we always felt like as a family, we were kind of really kind of looser with certain things.
Like if a, if a child were to lie to us, like we have a way to handle that, that isn’t like nailing and they’re gonna get grounded for three days. Yeah. But we were always the super strict parents when it came to like other things, right? So everybody finds their, their, their what, you know, what they’re passionate about. But the idea of what are you saying yes to when you say no, there’s always something that usually is a gift, you know? So if you’re saying no to your child having sugar or whatever, then you’re saying yes to healthy teeth and then not having to like, like have a drill in their mouth at the dentist office or if you’re saying no to a later bedtime, you’re saying yes to them feeling really good in the morning and not having like a meltdown before school.
Wendy:
So saying no to the device is saying yes to all these things that we are talking about.
Arlene:
You know, they did, they’re doing a study of adolescents, the National Institute of Health, they’re following like 10,000 adolescents and they found that just three things made that they’re saying, Okay, the healthy kids, what do they have? And it was like they, they have two hours or less of digital candy. So just all that, you know, YouTube and video games and just the fluffy stuff. So not school online stuff, but the fluffy stuff. S o two hours or less. They exercise one hour a day, like there’s some kind of activity one hour a day. Nice. And they sleep eight hours a night. So they found that if kids could just have those three things, they would be really healthy. But of course you can imagine the numbers were like, oh, only like 20% of all kids are getting these things. Like they were not good numbers. And so when you’re saying no to the device, you know, to that smartphone, then you are saying, Yes, let’s go exercise.
Yes, let’s have you just, you know, watch a little bit of, you know, YouTube between things and then that be it. And then yes, let’s have you sleep all the way through the night so that you can be a nice human being in the morning that’s actually awake. So all those things, you know, you really are saying yes. And it’s so fundamental and basic. It’s like not rocket science, but so many kids are not getting these fundamental basic needs met. And that’s why we’re having so many trouble, so many problems.
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So I think in one way it’s much simpler than we make it out to be. We make it out so complicated. But if you have younger kids, if you can pre-decide, this is when we’re going to allow this, this smartphone, that’s a huge win for you.
If you could pre-decide whether it’s the wait for eighth campaign, whether it’s you’re gonna wait till high school, whatever it is. Bill Gates, he didn’t give his kids phones until they were 14, until they were in high school. And I love to tell parents that if Bill Gates, you know, knows a little bit about technology, you know, so for us to realize, wait a minute. When Steve Jobs was interviewed and asked how do your kids like the, the iPad? He was like, Oh yeah, I don’t let my kids use the iPad. I mean, we have to kind of wake up to realize like we’re the dupes. Like, like yeah, we can wake up from this. So I think it’s good for us to pre decide that when we’re in the fire and our kid is crying and asking us, we’re gonna be like, okay, whatever. But if we decided two years back, hey, you know, we’re not even gonna talk about this until your sophomore year, then it gives you a grid to work from.
And actually your kids feel safe in that grid as well. I think.
Wendy:
Yes, Arlene, they feel so safe. That’s the thing. And that was something that there’s so much we did wrong in our practical, right? Like, I mean, we all make mistakes, were imperfect, but that is one thing. But I’m like, Yes, high five, Terry, we did it. We made that, we made that very clear to our kids, very young. No video games in the house. We ended up caving at like 11. But I it’s, Hey man, again, we made it till almost 11. Yes. And, and then the no, the no iPhones in the world and then till high school, which is eighth grade graduation. And then one more thing that we did was no technology in the bedrooms. Now Covid messed with us a little bit because we had to have the darn desk in there, but I’m still like, I’m in awe every night of my daughter.
Cause now that she has it, we’re old. So we go to bed early and she’s like, Mom, you know, I’m like, Oh, what are you doing? She’s like, I’m gonna stand in the hallway for a little bit. And I’m like, Oh honey, why don’t you come sit in my room at least? You know? And so she sits in the corner of my room as we go to, as I read and go to bed, but she still respects it, you know, like it’s all those years of teaching her like, Hey, this is why you don’t wanna get used to like being on these devices and, and just like getting on the iPad and playing these, even if it’s just like Frogger or something when you’re, it’s already isolating to begin with. And then it is just a lot around that, right? So that felt really good. And now our kids, it’s like they don’t even question it, right? Like they don’t question that they can’t drive till they’re 16.
Arlene:
Yep.
Wendy:
Right? There’s just no. So that’s been nice. There’s been never been pushback on the devices in in the bedroom,
Arlene:
in the bedroom tself, which is like such a crucial rule. I love that rule. Yeah. Because again, sleep, what’s happening at two o’clock, four o’clock, five o’clock in the morning, ding ding, ding. It’s like, no, your child needs to sleep. So that’s such a good rule no matter what the age of your child is.
Wendy:
Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay, well I have some more questions here. We’ve kind of covered a lot of it, but I did wanna say too that I think another reason that comes to my mind as an educator, when I look at the problem with giving, you know, if you’re thinking about should I, should I not, is it often becomes this big disconnecting thing because especially if parents aren’t quite super confident yet on how to use compassionate discipline versus punishment in their home. And I see this all the time with Stella’s age group, is around every corner there’s a threat that the phone’s gonna be taken away. And then by that point, the child, again from my and I, you are the expert in this field.
I’m just from observation of what I know from that, from the time, if they’re given the device early, whenever they’re given it, they quickly develop the addiction to it and it becomes such an ingrained part of their identity and their life. So then the, the punishment really strips them of belonging and power and they are just rocked. Which in the traditional punishment world is a little bit of the goal, right? Like you want ’em to be rocked, you want it to staying, which we, we can, we teach parents how to do it differently, but, and I just see it cause so much disconnection in relationships and then it’s like, it’s like Groundhogs Day, like every other month, the phone’s. So I’ll say, where’s, where’s so and so? to Stella, And she goes, She’s not responding.
And I’ll, and I’ll go, Oh, I wonder like if she’s traveling or something. She goes, Oh no, she probably got her phone taken away. And then the kid just goes back to doing whatever they were doing next two weeks from then. And then again it becomes, I’m gonna take your phone away. And it just is like a, I don’t know the right word from it, but it’s like, it’s like this treasured egg that parents know that they can just yank at any time. Of course there are ways to remove and take a break from a device if you have a child that has one like you alluded to, right? Like if it’s causing a problem and you realize like, yeah, hey, we’re not quite ready. We need another 30 days or we need to do the detox, which is so good. I love those books and programs that teach the detox, but when most, for most people it’s done in a way that’s like, Hey, I’m gonna yank it, you’re gonna feel the pain.
Wendy:
And then I see these kids like they really, the suffering is pretty intense. Which I think then adds to the anxiety, adds to the depression or their likelihood cuz they’re already at the point where the social and the apps has put them in a higher category and more likelihood to be anxious and depressed. And then you add disconnection with your parents and it’s just like, oh no, how do we get here? Yes. Yeah. So to save yourself from all of that is just so much easier to deal with the uncomfortableness of, hey, I know it’s tough to be different sometimes. Yeah. And, and you gotta trust me. Yeah. And I promise I’m here to talk and, and answer all your questions. Yeah. And I, here’s again why we’re doing this and thank you for honoring our, our limits or whatever it may be.
Arlene:
Yeah, yeah. And behind all those things, you know, the book Screen Kids I wrote is with Dr. Gary Chapman, who is the author of the Five Love Languages. So behind that, whether it’s you have withheld the device and you just need to love on your kid, or maybe you’ve taken away the device’s punishment and you need to love on your kid. But it is in that atmosphere of I am speaking my child’s love language. A lot of times, you know, we as parents think, of course they love my children, but then they’ll come into the counseling office and they’ll say like, Oh, do you feel your parents love? And they’ll say no. And it’s like, why don’t you feel it? And then they’ll find out, Oh, your love language is time. And then you realize, oh, as a parent I’m not really spending time with you and when I do, I’m just on my device, you’re on your device and this isn’t working very well. You know, know. So for us to just go back and pour that love in and that’s always happening so that whether it’s a, hey, we’re doing things different, but it’s, but that kid feels loved, Hey, I’m taking away this device for a week.
But that kid is loved and that is an ongoing relational thing that’s always working in the background.
Wendy:
I love that. Yeah. Yeah. So, and, and we’re gonna wrap here in a second. I want you to tell everyone where they can learn more and find you Arlene. But I love that because I want parents to remember that no matter what season you’re in, of course like perfect world scenario, Arlene and I are advocating for you to just wait. Right. Wait as long as possible. Remember you
Arlene:
Won’t, you won’t regret it. You’ll save yourself a lot of headaches and a lot of fights. You’ll love it.
Wendy:
Yep. And I, and tell us in a little bit, Arlene, maybe, maybe you have a community or something, a place where they can find more families like yours to connect with, to, to know that they’re not alone, but also just know that it’s never too late, right? Like in our world, it’s never too late to change the relationship and the way you’re working with and teaching your children the way you’re disciplining them, the way you’re whatever, connecting with them. And it’s never too late to change how things are going in your world around the tech. So you can take a break. We love that language of take a break, we’re gonna try this. You know, you have to trust me. So I’m really happy that you spoke to that because just remember, it’s never too late if you’re inspired by this conversation.
Arlene:
Yeah.
Wendy:
Best case scenario. Just wait, join the pledge. Wait even longer like Arlene did, if you can. And if you’re already in it and you’re like, oh, sobbing every night, cuz you see what we’re talking about and it’s playing out in your life, just know that you can take a break and you can do that with respect and dignity and, and have really great results. So Arlene, I know you got, you’re gonna head out and go welcome your son who’s coming back from camp. But tell listeners where they can find you. Like I said, if there, if there’s any community that you could lead them to that might be a lot of like-minded families around this tech, Tell us all the places. Cause I want everyone to go check out your work.
Arlene:
Yeah, thank you so much. So the book is called Screen Kids and it is with Dr. Gary Chapman and myself and it also has a companion book called Grandparenting Screen Kids. So that if you have some parents or in-laws that are watching your kids, you can kind of get on the same page together and you can go to happyhomeuniversity.com and at happyhomeuniversity.com you can take a quiz. Does my child have too much screen time? You can join the masterclass, which is where you would find that community. And it was going through the book with video lessons and you know, I can answer questions there, et cetera. So it’s the Screen Kids Masterclass. So, and then we, that documentary that we talked about to be able to see my own children talking about like, okay, was it, you know, what was it really like not having a phone and not having social media in high school?
Tell us what’s it really like? So you can find all that out and that’s all at happyhomeuniversity.com.
Wendy:
Oh, so good. And that’s so important because kids learn well by hearing other kids. Yeah. Yes. And the grandparent component is so massive. Wow. Thank you Arlene, thank you so much for taking time out to be with us today. Listeners, go give Arlene some love and get into her book, her programs, and all the things that she offers. Thanks, Arlene. For links and more information about everything we talked about in today’s episode, head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/145.
All right, families, that’s a wrap. I hope you loved today’s episode as much as I loved recording it for you. If you want to learn more from me, one of the best ways to do that is to hop into one of my free workshops. This month I’m teaching all about Responsive Parenting and you can join me by saving your seat over at freshstartfamilyonline.com/freeclass.
Stella:
For more information, go to freshstartfamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening, families, have a great day.
