Today on The Fresh Start Family Show, Wendy is chatting with Unyime Oguta, life and nutrition coach for moms & founder of Olive & Bliss Wellness. Her passion is helping moms enjoy the foods they love, without fear, guilt or stress.
In this episode, they talk about how we can not raise an emotional eater.
Food and weight and body image affects us all. Perhaps you were shamed as a child about your eating, taught to use food as rewards / punishment, made fun of for your body, embarrassed because of your weight … or if you just want to keep learning how to have a positive outlook on food that you already embrace, this episode is packed full of knowledge that will serve us all.
When we as parents have a healthy relationship with food and drink and the knowledge of how it ties in with our emotions, we can then model to our kiddos a lifestyle that will sustain them through their adulthood.
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Episode Highlights:
- Emotional eating is not “good” or “bad” it’s just a circumstance we can decide is serving us or not
- If we haven’t learned how to pay off emotional debt, so we use food, drinking, and other media to numb out and escape
- How our inner rebel doesn’t like the shame and constraints of what we “should” do, so we often give in to the temptation
- All foods fit if we approach foods in a neutral way vs “good” and “bad” food
- Separate our child’s worth from their eating and drinking behaviors
- The expectations around food we put on our kids puts them in stress mode
- Get curious and explore our kids’ relationship with food
- We can’t control our kids, but we can influence them through modeling the whole range of the relationship we have with food
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Connect with Unyime:
Olive and Bliss Wellness website
Wendy interview on Unyime’s Thriving Mum Podcast
Special thanks to Parent Playbook and Tonies for their support of
The Fresh Start Family Show!
Not able to listen or want to read along with us?
Here is the episode transcript!
This episode of The Fresh Start Family Show is brought to you by our free one hour workshop, How to Respond Versus React to Misbehavior with calm confidence, aka, how to keep your cool and not lose your marbles. When your kids push your buttons or make mistakes, you can save your seat over at freshstartfamilyonline.com/freeclass.
Wendy:
Well, hello listeners. I’m so happy you are here for a new episode. I’m your host, Wendy Snyder, positive parenting educator and family life coach. And today’s episode is with Unyime Oguta, who is just incredible and we are talking all about how we can not raise emotional eaters. And Unyime is just one of the sweetest women I’ve ever met and she is just wise when it comes to this topic. She is on a mission to help moms thrive in the chaos that is motherhood by simplifying all things food, body image, and feeding kids.
As a mom of three, she’s very passionate about helping women leverage the power of their minds to let go of dieting, heal their relationship with food and body, and raise children who are healthy confident eaters. She’s also the host of the Thriving Mom podcast and coach at Olive and Bliss Wellness. And I met Unyime, when I was on her show, the Thriving Mom podcast. We’ll make sure that we link that for you. But Unyime and I really connected on that episode I did with her because we talked about, y’all know, my favorite subject to speak on one of my favorite subjects. We talked about parenting, the strong-willed child with dignity and respect.
So I’ll make sure that we link that episode that we did where I was interviewed on, Unyime show the Thriving Mom podcast cuz it really was a great show. But today we are talking about this idea of how to not raise an emotional eater. And this episode is really special to me guys because you may or may not have heard me talk about how this has been a big journey for me over the last year or two as I realized that I definitely have some components in my life that include emotional eating and drinking and I’ve been doing a lot to get support in this area and it just has been at the front of my mind to really, as I’ve become aware of some of the things that I do that you’ll hear me speak to, I, I tell some pretty personal stories and examples in this episode.
But what I’ve become aware of is that I really wanna make sure that I’m looking at what I’m modeling for my children. And so to hear Unyime’s guidance and her wisdom on this subject was just really special for me. And I know you guys are gonna love it too, especially as we go into the holidays, right? I think if we were to all go back in time, we, one of our wishes, right, would just to be, just to be raised in a way where we, we were taught how to have really healthy relationships with food, to not use food and drink as a way to numb or kill emotions or not really deal with stuff that we’re going through, but instead just as a way to nourish our body and a way to enjoy life a little bit, right?
So you’re gonna hear us today talk about how we can really create safety for ourselves as we are mothering or fathering or or raising these beautiful children of ours by paying off our emotional debts. And you’re gonna hear Unyime talk to that, you’ll hear us talk about how we can adopt a neutral approach to food and drink. Really like taking the morality out of food. You’ll hear us speak to creating safety for our kids when it comes to eating and drinking, as well as modeling the culture of eating and drinking the things we want for our family. And then also the importance of staying curious about our kiddos relationships with food and drink.
So I know that you guys are just gonna really love this episode and as we head into the holidays, let’s prioritize this. Let’s really make sure that we are putting some intention and purpose behind what we say in front of our kids, what we do, the things we say about ourselves and our own bodies and all that good stuff you guys. So without further ado, help me welcome Unyime to the show and enjoy this episode.
Stella:
Well, hey there, I’m Stella. Welcome to my mom and dad’s podcast, The Fresh Start Family Show. We’re so happy you’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean, Jesus, and rock and roll and believe deeply in the true power of love and kindness. Together we hope to inspire you to expand your heart, learn new tools, and strengthen your family. Enjoy the show.
Wendy:
Well, hello there listeners and welcome to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family Show. I am really excited to be here with Unyime Oguta this morning, who is a life and nutrition coach for moms. Good morning, Unyime.
Unyime:
Morning, Wendy, I am so excited to be here.
Wendy:
I’m so excited to be chatting with you. Today we are going to be talking parents about how we can not raise an emotional eater and I’m just really excited to kind of gleam from your wisdom, Unyime, because you know, there’s definitely bits, as I shared with you, we’ve chatted, we chatted for your show before for your podcast and then we’ve chatted back kinda back and forth sometimes on Instagram. And I’ve shared that I’ve been on my own personal journey with kind of trying to figure out how to have less emotional eating and drinking in my life. And now I kind of see some things in my kids here and there that I’m like, oh, I wanna make sure that I’m coming at this from an empowered, connected, compassionate stance.
And I just know you’re gonna have so many beautiful things to share with us today. So thank you for being here.
Unyime:
I’m so excited. I can’t wait to get to it
Wendy:
Yes. Okay, well I told the listeners a little bit about you before we started recording, but will you take a moment Unyime, to tell us about your story, What caused you to want to become a life and health coach for moms? What got you here? What does your journey look like? Like of course, tell us how many kids you have and about life as a mom for you these days. But just take a few minutes to tell listeners all about you and and your story.
Unyime:
Absolutely. Thank you. And it’s so funny that you asked that question because I have so many facets to my story. But today cuz we’re talking about emotional eating and how not to raise an emotional eater, I would just focus on just growing up and always feeling like I didn’t belong. Obviously I was really a small human compared to a lot of my peers. So from a young age, food was actually a big struggle for me. I was very hesitant to try new things. I, now that I think back at it, because I’m an adult and I can tell what’s happening, I do have sensitivity issues with like texture and things like that.
So back then it was a big struggle for my mom and I grew up being called a picky eater. So as I’ve grown in my own journey, coming to Canada and actually having to deal with food cultures, right? Coming from Nigeria where the food was very different and then I moved here and I had to figure out how to source for my own food and cook for myself. I found myself in this place where I was struggling to figure out where do I belong, first of all in my body as a smaller person compared to other people who are my age or just in my community. And also figuring out how do I relate with food.
So I found out that I was really attached, like food was a huge thing for me where when I was sad, when I was unhappy, when things were not going my way, it was food. If I was angry I would cook and there were times I would cook a lot of food living by myself. I couldn’t even eat it by myself. But just to kind of help me with that emotional tension, I did that to release myself. And of course as I’ve had kids trying to figure out where does speaky eating kind of fit into this whole thing, I came upon this journey where I thought, you know what? There was nothing wrong with me. My mom did the best that she could. I just needed to figure out how I relate to food.
And that’s why my mission with the nutrition coaching for moms, a lot of moms come to me because their children are struggling. They don’t know how to, you know, navigate those power struggles during meal times. And I show them so much compassion because I was once that kid. So then from my experience, I’m teaching them how they can relate to their children in those circumstances. Sometimes it’s not even about the food, there’s a lot more and we really work on starting from the meta view and going deep to say, okay, what’s really happening here? It’s not that you’re a bad mom, it’s not that you’re a terrible mom or you don’t have the skills, there are just some other things that your child needs from you and you need to be able to listen.
So I did that with my first child. She was actually also considered picky even though the doctor also called her fat. So I had to figure that out with her. Yes, it was a reminder with every appointment, she’s too fat, she’s too fat, you need to do something. So that really just like broke me. And I’m sure a lot of moms can relate to this where you feel like, well that’s just the way my child is, but then the doctor is saying this. So I really had to go through my own relearning with her and really learning to advocate for her size, but also having a lot of grace and compassion for myself that it’s not anything I did. It’s not me being a bad mom, this is just the way my child is and I’m glad to say she’s 10 now we’ve worked through that, but my other two kids haven’t had to go through that.
So my third child who’s four, she does not know what it looks like to restrict food. She doesn’t know what it feels like to not have the food that she wants. She’s just free. And the the difference is like night and day. So yeah, that’s, that’s the story.
Wendy:
So good. And how old are the three, How old are your three kiddos again? Boys, girls?
Unyime:
I have three girls, one’s 10, the other is eight and my toddler is four years old. Four going on 10.
Wendy:
Yes. Oh I love it. Isn’t it beautiful Unyime the, whatever your path, you get led down. Right? And I think it’s so beautiful when people use, you know, what might have been challenging or you know, where we didn’t feel like we belonged. And I wanna speak to that in a minute, but when we take that hardship part of our upbringing and then decide to do something to help others not have that same experience or have a, you know, a lightened experience so to speak. I just think it’s so beautiful. I love how you said the little one has never experienced some of the things that the older one did. Right? Because we’re learning, right? We’re parents, we’re human and we’re all just trying to figure it out with our oldest. But I know with my little guy is 11 and my older girl is 14 and it is such a cool reality when I look at him because he’s never known anything other than positive parenting.
And it is just cool, right? It’s not to say that we should beat ourselves up for all the things we did where with the older ones, but it does, it’s a really great feeling when, you know, when you’re, you know, that you got to, to give to this little human and experience that was different than you know, what you grew up with. And that’s really the definition of breaking the cycle.
Unyime:
Yes.
Wendy:
Right? Like breaking the chain, Like that’s what it is. I mean, all the links, you know, they’re, they’re there for, for that little one. So that’s really cool. Awesome. And so now on a day to day basis with Olive and Bliss Wellness is, that’s the name of your company, right?
Yes.
Wendy:
Tell us a little bit about what you do on a day to day basis with moms and kids. Cuz you’re mostly working with moms, right? And I’m, I’m assuming that it’s, it’s similar, right? Like as to my work where, you know, people always come to me and they’re like, okay, my kids, my kid’s nuts, my kid’s misbehaving, like fix ’em. And I’m like, okay, sit down, get comfortable, we’re gonna talk about you. And I think, you know, most people are aware of that now with parenting, but some of them get caught by surprise and they’re like, well it’s not me that’s the problem, it’s them. But what do you do on a daily basis with your mommas?
Unyime:
Absolutely. So right now I coach them through body image, intuitive eating. Most of them come to me because they struggle with food. So it’s almost like 50/50, 50% come because they’re struggling with food and their bodies, the other 50 come because they can’t get the child to sit still at the table. So we all just, everything for me culminates around our whole perception about motherhood. I think that’s where it always comes from. We’re trying so hard to be good moms. We’re trying so hard to achieve balance. We’re trying so hard to show this front that we’ve got it all figured out. So the work that we do, I really work on helping the moms see and become aware of the rules and expectations that they’ve bought into.
And sometimes we think, you know, while we’re growing up, we’re taught to be pleasing. We’re taught to, you know, follow along what everyone else is saying. And they’re helpful sometimes. But when you grow up and you become a woman and you become a mom who is the CEO of her own home, now you have to create your own motherhood. You have to create your own system. So a lot of us get shocked. I I always say it’s like this trigger moment. It’s like, well what do you mean this is the way my mom did it, but then the way my mom did, it doesn’t work for my child. Right? And your mom is not your child’s mom. So then we work through a lot of the mindset work, really uncovering those thoughts and beliefs and really getting down to the root of what is it that you really want for your children?
What is it that you want for yourself as a mom? How do you wanna feel in your day? And then we start creating these strategies and I teach them the skills. If the, if food and body is the biggest struggle we work through on learning diet, culture and getting rid of those thoughts that make you think, you know, you have to be a certain size. We work through the thought of, oh, your size is related to your health. If it’s food and the children, we work through a case, something that I teach my clients called the mealtime anxiety cycle, which is just a representation of how what we bring to the meal table will impact our children. So a lot of us don’t think about that. Like we think, oh, it’s just food, but it’s not, If you come to the table and you have an agenda, it’s almost like the kids can smell you.
They might not be able to say it, but they’ll know like, my mom wants me to eat the vegetables. And sometimes we’ll say like, you can’t have candy or you can’t have dessert, you need to finish this. So all of that builds anxiety in the child. And I really talk to my clients and teach them how to stop that cycle before it even starts. And it’s always a process. So right now we work for six months and we just, every, every week we’re coaching on those topics, we’re bringing them. And the beauty of this is you’re doing it in real time, right? Yeah. Because we’re so, we’re taught to go to school, you learn what the teacher regurgitates to you and you pass in life.
There’s nothing like that. Life is all about trying and doing different things and then going back and saying, Well that didn’t work. How do I change it? Rather than, well, I need to fix things before they happen because you’re not gonna know. And the best way to build that skill is to do the thing. That’s when you know, okay, maybe what I need is to tweak here a little bit and change that a little bit and then it’s gonna work out.
Wendy:
Ah, that makes so much sense. And what a beautiful service and how you, That’s amazing. And I, I was sharing with you before we recorded how I feel like this recording today is gonna be, it’s funny, as I’m sitting here, I mean, my listeners know that I have a lot of emotion. I’m just like an emotional person. I always say that’s a strength. It’s beautiful emotion’s not bad. It’s good.
Unyime:
I love it.
Wendy:
Emotion. Yeah, emotion is welling in me, man. It’s funny because like there is like, you’re right, there’s so much underneath of it, right? So I’ll share real quick what’s going on in our home as we get into, we have about five points we’re gonna cover today that are so beautiful about how to not raise an emotional eater, but just know that as I’m listening today, I’m really just soaking this up and excited to take what you teach us and really implement into my home because there is, you know, there is some things right now. So for me over the last few years, you know, entrepreneurship, I know, you know, in any, anybody that’s ever dabbled in entrepreneurship, holy smokes, it’s both amazing.
And it’s also, woo, it is a grind, right? Like you just have to have so much tenacity and grit and all the things, right? So the last two years combined with covid I realized were just really, I was really starting to dabble in some emotional eating and drinking that I was like, oh, two years later I’m like, oh, I, I realized that I’m probably, you know, overdoing it on the Chardonnay and overdoing it on the Girl Scouts cookies. And it was just new to me because I had never, I always said that I, I was blessed to grow up where my parents never mentioned weight. They never, nothing was about weight or being skinny. But I went through a season where I was a big kid.
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So in probably third, fourth, fifth grade, I was a big kid. Like the kids on the springboard diving team would call me watermelon cuz we were like the Ashton Alligator. We had green suits with stripes. And my girlfriend and I, like, I remember my girlfriend Heidi, and I would give each other boxes of candy bars, like full blown t-shirt boxes of snicker bars. And that was just like, but I remember my parents never like, said to me, Wendy, you’re getting a little, you’re, you’re pretty big. Like, I don’t know if you’re gonna be able to dive as well. They just never, I just don’t have that memory. My dad modeled really like healthy exercise, all the things. So as life went on, like things worked out and I grew and I became an athlete and learned how to, I think take good care of myself and got really interested in health and nutrition and, and it all worked out.
But the reason why I tell this story is because now my little guy who I always say is like, just like his daddy, they’re like spitting images of each other. They have the same name. They’re just same personality, these soft-hearted, just amazing men. And my daughter is very similar to me with like her strong will, but Terrin looks just like me when I was a little girl. And he has a tendency to like, he goes, he eats a lot. Like he’ll finish a bowl of pasta and then he’ll be like, he’ll go back and he’ll be like, he’s gonna get another bowl of pasta. Or he’ll have one lunch and finish another lunch. And recently it’s bubbled up where I’m like, Oh no, I feel scared that he’s gonna become really, really big.
Or you know, I think you just remember those, even though you look back and you’re like, it wasn’t a big deal to be called watermelon, whatever. It’s like you never want your child to go through that. You want your child to be healthy and happy in his body. And so lately we’ve been starting to have conversations and everything that you’re talking about is, so I’m like, okay, where do I have it? Where am I modeling it? Right? Like where am I? Cause I know one of the points we’re gonna talk about is model the culture of eating and drinking. Or there’s one in here that basically you had said what matters is what you’re showing your kids. It doesn’t matter what you’re teaching them, what matters is that you’re showing them. And I know on like, you know, a Friday night, if I go back in for that third glass of Chardonnay or something, I’m like, I have anxiety, or I ha I know there’s, there’s stress.
It’s like I don’t, I don’t wanna do that. I wanna stop at two. Or I don’t wanna go back for like the third round of cookies. And the good news is, is we had a conversation the other night and I feel like it went really well with him and it was had a very big sense of tone of like, hey, we’re in this together. We’re learning how to listen to our bodies. We’re learning how to, cuz I’ve, you know, shared with you, I found some new things that are helping me listen to my body instead of the you should do this, you should do that. And that’s helping. And he really was responsive, but I just do not ever wanna make him feel like something’s wrong with his body or he, he needs to be fitter to be in a good athlete or a great surfer. But it’s, I can feel it’s a lot right now for me.
So just thank you because I’m figuring it out, right? Like I’m figuring it out and we’re all gonna be okay. But what what you do is really just really important, Unyime.
Unyime:
Thank you. And thank you for sharing that. I, I, I think what you’re experiencing, a lot of moms can relate and I’m just like sending you so much compassion because what you’re feeling is real. The fear is normal. We live in a society that’s very fat phobic. We live in a society that looks down on people whose bodies don’t conform, right? Whatever the norm is. And these are always changing depending on whoever’s holding the power. So as a parent, we know what that feels like, especially if we’ve been through that. It’s scary to think why I won’t always protect them.
There are little babies and we want them to feel good. We want them to be happy. So I just wanna say that that’s normal and let’s normalize that. The more we’re willing to accept that this is how we feel. I feel like that just already starts opening up that conversation, right? Like if a child is like your son now and you’re just saying, You know what, I feel really scared and I’m not sure how this conversation’s gonna go. I’m not even sure how to do, but we’re in this together, that alone normalizes. It’s like, oh, well my mom is feeling scared so it’s okay. She, she understands she’s with me. Even though you’re not in the same body that builds that connection.
It opens up room for conversation to happen. So I’m really just like shaking my head here and I’m, I’m so happy that you said that. And one thing I wanted to say, like around that age, we undergo growth spurts, right? So we’re in this space where a lot of us are developing for girls and females, we tend to gain a lot more weight than men than boys. And that’s normal too, this is our body just saying, you know what, I’m ready to be an adult. And so many changes are happening. The issue then happens when a child is going through that phase and someone says something. So like for you, your parents, you were lucky enough that your parents were supportive, Other people not so much.
Like that’s when the parents are like, Well you can’t wear that or are you really gonna eat that? So I think you’re already in a good place where you’re supporting him even though you have your own anxiety and fear, which is normal.
Wendy:
Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. And it’s so not, it’s like there’s work to be done because I know that there’s this tone of like, honey, like, you know, that that, like you said, they can smell it, right? Like you, you just had this huge pasta bowl, and it’s like, you know, you’re like, there’s a tone of like, before we had, I mean we’ve had many conversations, but before we had this really good one the other day, it was just more of like a little bit of a tone. Like you can’t still be hungry or like, come on like chill. Like just chill. You know, like just let your stomach settle. Like come on. Like, I don’t know, it’s just not, there’s, I’m listening and I’m like, okay, let’s just get into it. And I’m sure the convers like it’ll develop, but everything you shared, yes.
The compassion piece, right? Like it doesn’t have to be perfect, but as long as I think we’re willing to continue because it’s not like just one comment is gonna scar them for the rest of their life. Like as long as you’re there and you’re willing to learn and support and grow with them, like you can continue to make imprints on the brain, right? Like you can continue to make it about health and wellness, not about weight and body, you know, but I’m figuring it out. Well let’s pop it like, let’s hop right into the first point you have for us right now, which is create safety for yourself by paying off your emotional debt. What does this mean? I wanna know more and what I, I’m gonna say one thing before you go into that is I really connect with your story about belonging because of course it was be, once I became a life coach and a parenting educator that I, I understood it.
But when I look at my childhood, I always say I felt like an alien. I felt very, very, very different than my family. And I always did, always did still to this day a little bit. And so I don’t know how that has to, what that has to do with emotional debt, but I just really related to that. So yeah, I can, I can sense how that was a lot behind a lot of the things that I got into, especially in my late teen years, which for us growing up near Washington, DC with my husband and I were together since we were, I was 17, partying was like the, that that essentially when I look back was the emotional eating, drinking, I put eating and drinking together.
That was how you numbed the pain of not fitting in in your home or having a jerk brother or like someone breaking up with you.
Unyime:
It was, you go to a kegger on Friday night and you get wasted. So it was definitely, looking back, I’m like, oh, that’s how I numbed emotions because I never had anybody teaching me like, oh this is what it, you know, this is what this all is all about. So talk to us about paying off emotional debt. Yeah, that’s a great question and I’m sure you’ll relate to this cuz part of this is also what you do when it comes to the parenting, but emotional debt is this concept that I developed. I think I was just coaching one of my clients about emotional eating. First of all, I wanna say that emotional eating is not a good or bad thing and we’ll dig into that some more, but it is just a circumstance. So we are the ones who get to decide, is this serving me or not?
That’s the bigger question. Rather than saying, how do I stop? Or this is not, you know, I wanna not do it anymore. The question is, is it serving me or not? Right? So for me, I believe a lot of us who are socialized as women, especially moms, we walk around with this burden of the world on our shoulders. So, you know, whether we feel like we belong or we’re trying to meet a certain standard, we just walk around collecting all of this. And because the society has prescribed you, you must always be happy, you must always be smiling, all the positive emotions, everyone wants to shut out the negative ones. So we hide it. And as moms, because we’re also responsible for children, we want our children to see us be happy, we want our children to see us always be on our best.
We walk around with that. And for me, I describe it as an accumulation of these emotions that we’re afraid to express or acknowledge. And then they tend to be, you know, what’s not appropriate by society. So we do everything to prevent ourselves from feeling them. When we feel them, we judge ourselves and then we try to pay them off by doing more, by pushing harder so that the thing we’re doing will give us that positive emotion. It’s almost like we’re trying to withdraw the negative emotion by replacing it with positive ones. And all our bodies want us to do is just process. Just give it space and allow, because life is not always gonna be positive all the time.
There’s the negative emotions, what we deem negative that want to express themselves. It’s for instance, like a, a client of mine who was wor stressed out about eating with her child and she said, you know, sometimes I just feel so angry, but I’m even ashamed to admit. And I said, Why you are angry. There’s a reason why you’re angry about your child not eating. How about we just acknowledge that that is what’s happening right now. Doesn’t mean anything about you as a mom, doesn’t mean anything about the love that you have for your child. You’re human with natural emotions. Let’s acknowledge it. And she just started crying.
Wendy:
Yeah. That you get a lot of tears.
Unyime:
Oh, you know, like in for her, it was the first time she actually admitted that this experience made her angry. And I said, Now we’ve given room to let anger come out and we need to ask anger. What are you trying to tell me in this moment? And then she started talking about, it wasn’t even about the child, it was her mother-in-law would make comments about the child being too skinny. So if my child is skinny, that means I’m not feeding the child enough. That means I’m a bad mom. That’s where the root was. So then we had to explore that and then she started working, We then built the skill of, okay, if your child says she’s not gonna eat, say that’s fine.
Because what we found out was when she got angry, because she was so working so hard to prevent it, she would withdraw her love at the dining table. Yep. She would shut down. No more conversations, it was just, let’s just eat and move on. Yeah. And then when, when we went through all of this and her child said, I don’t want to eat. And she’s like, Okay, fine. So the child left the table, came back an hour later and said, Mom, you’re not mad. She’s like, No. And her daughter gave her a very big hug, went back to the table and ate her food.
Wendy:
Yep.
Unyime:
And we didn’t need a new schedule, we didn’t need to go make five different meals. It was just admitting that this makes me angry and that opened up the room for whatever was underlying to come up.
Wendy:
That is so beautiful. So the idea of paying off emotional debt is learning to process your emotions. And that is what reduces the debt, so to speak. Unless instead of letting it stack, stack, stack, it’s like we, we know it’s there. Like as long as we go ahead and acknowledge and, and feel through the emotions instead of blocking them or resisting them, that’s what gets us down to the the neutral ground again.
Unyime:
Exactly. And we’re not trying to fill it with food or money or shopping. We’re not trying to do this trading. It’s like we’re, we’re the ones who own the power to pay it off. Nobody else is gonna do that. Nothing else is gonna do that for us.
Wendy:
Yep. Yeah. I can just, And it’s, it’s fun man. It’s not, it’s not funny. It’s a journey. It’s just a journey, right? Cause I, it’s like I know this concept, you say it so eloquently and and beautiful and different than I’ve heard it before, but it’s just a wild how in the moment it’s tough. But I guess it doesn’t always have to be in the moment. Right? Like for me, I mean I mentioned the Girl Scout cookies, but a lot of times it is like the second or third glass of Sauvignon Blanc. I’m like a white wine. It’s like my guilty pleasure. I love hats. I have a hat on today. I love hats and white wine. But in the moment, like I’ll know, I’ll be like, Wendy, you’re just, you’re tired. You had a big day or you had, like I was telling you before we started recording, we had our website hacked today.
Like how does that even happen? Like I had my website hacked today. Like I’ve built learn, I’ve spent my four years in my life savings building that website and it was hacked this morning, like 10 minutes before we hopped on this. So I’ll know in the moment like, well you should probably just go make a cup of tea instead of like feeling like you should numb out a little bit more. And then I still pour it, you know, or I’ll still have the cookies. So what I’m getting is that it doesn’t necessarily have to be in the moment, but as long as maybe you’re, you have a coach later to work through or a journaling process to just say like, Hey, I wonder what was going on in that moment where I still, you know, went to something to fill and to like to block the emotions.
Cause anytime you’re not stopping and saying, what is this feeling? Right? That just is a, that is a signal that you are emotional eating, right? Or drinking.
Unyime:
Yeah. For the most part. And I think it’s something that you said there where it’s like it doesn’t have to be in that moment, right? So for a lot of us, we think if I let it then it’s gonna overtake me. I have to spend hours and hours processing this emotion. But no, there’s a whole lot of things happening with the processing. Even just recognizing like, how am I feeling right now? I’m very angry. Okay, I don’t have the time, but I notice I’m angry. You’ve told your brain when this thing that just happened happens, it makes me feel angry.
Wendy:
So then later in your day, whether you have a journaling practice or I also teach my clients how to self coach, you can can just sit back and say, okay, what is it about that situation that triggered me? Right? So even though it happened, you can still go and eat the food. You can still go and drink whatever because in that moment you need soothing. Right. And for some of us, that’s the one thing that’s gonna help. But this is the caveat I always use. You don’t get to feel guilty about it. So what makes it really terrible for us is we pile on shame and guilt.
Unyime:
Oh my gosh, it’s so true.
Wendy:
Oh, and that’s the problem because shame is what stops us from making changes tomorrow.
Unyime:
Exactly.
Wendy:
Oh my gosh, this is so good. I just wanna like ball on your shoulder right now, but I’m not going to, I have a live stream right after this. Yes, that makes sense. And what I’m, what I’m realizing now, and I’ll just say it out loud so people can under hear my own personal. So in that moment, I think if I, even if I pour, you know, the second glass of chardonnay, if it’s a Tuesday night and I’m like I said, I was just like, I just wanna have one. Like I just wanna have one when I cook dinner. Right. And I don’t wanna numb out the emotions if I just were to say in that moment, I just feel scared. And my big thing I’ve realized is that I’m not gonna be able to relax and I think it’s scared or it could be angry, right? Like angry if I have like maybe a team member who dropped the ball.
And not that I get angry at my team members, but I mean like if something happens and I’m like, Oh gosh darn it, I thought we had covered that. Or like a lot of it is like I realize is this the fear that I’m not gonna be able to relax? I think just acknowledging it in that moment or like something around fear, around like, oh my gosh, I’ve built a business that I’m never gonna not be able to work 80 hours a week. But again, just saying, okay, I feel scared and that’s okay. Instead of like right now, nine outta 10 times I never stop. I actually will stop myself. I’ll say to myself like, Oh, you should slow down and and feel. And then really quickly within like two seconds I’ll be like, No, no, no. It’s fine’s fine.
Unyime:
Yeah, that’s, that’s your inner rebel coming out because you just gave it a rule where you said “I should”.
Wendy:
Yes.
Unyime:
And right away your brain is like, nope, no one’s gonna tell us what to do, we’re just gonna drink it.
Wendy:
Yes. Because Unyime, I am the strongest willed child on the planet.
Unyime:
There you go!
Wendy:
The should. That is such a good point. Yeah. Us who have that beautiful, strong will that gives us the courage to be entrepreneurs often or be leaders of some sort. You’re right, we will. So good. Okay you guys, we gotta move on to number two. All right. Adopt a neutral approach to food and drink. Take the morality of out of food. No. Good or bad.
Unyime:
Yes.
Wendy:
Awesome.
Unyime:
So this is tied to what we just talked about, right? So there are a lot of us who have grown up maybe in diet culture where it’s like, this food is good to eat, that food is bad for you and then you know, this is what you need to eat to be healthy. But at the end of the day, all foods fit. If you approach food in a neutral way, you will find room for all the foods to fit. And that again comes from the mindset, right? So if you’re thinking this food is bad for me or I shouldn’t, where you have a lot of rules, then when it comes to the food and when it comes to the drinking and you’re feeling very emotional in that moment, you then become the food police. So the food police is this thought or kind of like a persona that you have that brings the rules down about food.
And most of us, this is a term intuitive eating. Most of us have this food police within us. So as children maybe there were people who said that if people didn’t say it, you read it in the newspaper or you’ve probably heard it somewhere. So you built that thought in your head. And then when it comes to times when you’re most vulnerable, like I’m feeling emotional, I just want another glass, the food police shows up. So our job is to say, I’m willing to adopt a neutral approach to food. And that doesn’t mean go out and buy all the foods cuz I know a lot of us have fears like, oh, if I allow myself to eat then that means I’m not gonna stop. I’m just gonna want to eat pizza and donuts all the time. No, no, no.
We do it gently just with everything else in life. We take one day at a time. What is the one food that I haven’t been allowing myself to eat and how can I create space for my body to feel safe around this food? For a lot of us it’s ice cream and popcorn. When we’re feeling emotional, for me it’s brownies and ice cream, right? So there was a time I would never let myself, cuz I’m like if I eat it, I’ll eat it all the time. But no, if I can learn to acknowledge that it’s okay for me to have this food, how would I approach it and I can eat it whenever I want. So then that relaxes that sense of urgency and scarcity around that food.
Wendy:
So for me, it’s interesting cuz there’s like this different layer of, I’ve always had this very sensitive body. I get a lot of headaches, I have like a lot of what’s appears to be inflammation around a lot of sports in in injuries. I’ve had six surgeries and shoulders and knees and elbows and all these things. So I love to experiment with like anti-inflammatory type of eating plans. But what I’m learning from you is that all the times that I do like say like go out, go off what I normally eat because I what I normally eat, I love it the way it makes me feel. Like I’ll wake up and I can walk down the stairs and my knees don’t ache and stuff like that.
But if I go out on date night and I have some things, if I’m like telling myself, Oh you shouldn’t do this, but which I do, I’m like, oh you shouldn’t do this, but whatever f- it is normally what I say to myself. And then the next day I kind of beat myself up and when I feel my knees or three days later if I feel my knees, I’m like, well that’s cuz you’re not good enough. There’s levels of that.
Unyime:
Yes.
Wendy:
So like slowing it down and just bringing in the compassion and basically it’s like there’s, you can do whatever you want. I can do whatever I want and I get to decide if it makes me feel good or it makes me feel bad. But right now this is just what I chose to do. And in the moment it may like that’s gonna help me settle and then be more likely to choose possibly a different path if I want to in the future.
Unyime:
Exactly. And of course, like you said, there are so many layers. So it’s not just like a one and done thing. But one thing I wanted to touch on that you said, you said, I eat those food and they make me feel good. This is where a lot of us forget, right? We eat and we’re like, well that’s what the doctor said to eat. Well that’s what my coach said, but what feels good to you? So if I know that these are the foods that make me feel good, but I still wanna eat that other food, how can I allow it? So I’ll give you an instance. I’m lactose intolerant, but I don’t like lactose free ice cream.
Wendy:
Yes. So I will eat the regular ice cream and over the years I’ve learned that if I have one scoop, there’s a particular brand I like. If I have one scoop of that, I’m good. If I have two tummy ache and all the runs are coming that night. Yeah. So I’ve learned like it’s not like I force myself not to have a second one. I just say, you know what? I know one scoop is good enough for me. If I have two, this is what’s gonna happen. Like I, I know that cuz my body knows do I wanna take that chance? And there are days when I will do the two scoops and I’m like, you know what? This happened. I still come back to that compassion and love not waking up the next day, like you said with the shame spiral because then the shame just blocks us from even taking the chance to say, okay, how can I work through this?
Gosh, that’s so beautiful. Okay, I’m gonna keep practice at implementing that compassion. Oh, okay. Talk to us about creating safety for our kids when it comes to eating and drinking. This again is so important to me, important to me. Especially looking at, you know, what’s happening and the words I’m using and the tone that I’m using with Terrin right now. Tell us more.
Unyime:
Yeah, so this goes back to that mealtime anxiety cycle I was telling you about. It’s almost like the diet cycle. So the children will come to the table, let’s say it’s dinnertime parents, we have our thoughts, we have our perspectives, we have expectations of what dinner time should look like, right? So some, some of us feel children should always be seated, they should never roll their eyes, their feet should be planted on the ground. Like we have all these things that we’ve learned growing up and we come to the meal table and all of a sudden your child is like, No, I don’t wanna eat. I wanna sit on the on the table. I had my daughter for like six months when she was two years old, she would squat on the table.
That’s how she wanted to eat. There was no sitting for her. It was convenient, right? So we have all these thoughts and the issue happens when we come and we don’t take the time to learn from our children. We try to push back on their behavior. Right away, their fight flight or freeze cycle kicks in at that time their body isn’t looking to eat, their body is looking to run or freeze, right? Right. So then it’s like their body is trying to create safety and the more we push, the more they push back or the behavior kind of evolves. So if it’s a child who’s like a people pleaser like me, she might eat the food just so she can get out of that cycle and feel safe again.
But if there’s a strong willed child who is like, Nope, I’m not going to eat, guess what happens? The parent intensifies the behavior you have to eat. Or they start with the guilt and shame or they try maybe an iPad and they just like do whatever they can to get the child to eat. And then sometimes meal doesn’t happen or the child doesn’t look forward to meal. So I always remind parents there’s a lot more to meal times than just eating.
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For some of us who work outside the home, it might be the only time your child gets to sit with you and they might wanna connect, is that maybe that’s what they’re trying to tell you through their behavior.
If you’re always focused on the food, then you’re gonna miss all of that. Like, I have a lot of clients that I coach and many of them, this is where their issue started from. It was like, well, food was just like five minutes eat and we’re done. So there was no room for communicating. And I know it’s not ideal for everyone to sit together, but what can you do if you’re a mom? And that time makes you anxious because your children are always asking for things and you don’t get to eat, you don’t have to eat with them. But do you wanna sit with them and just have a conversation? Right? Because then you’re filling their own tank of whatever it is that they need in that moment and they can feel comfortable and food time feels safe.
When food and eating feels safe for children, they’re more likely to want to eat. So that’s what that’s all about.
Wendy:
Yep. I love that. Cause I, I do hear, especially when the kids are younger, right? There are so many parents who struggle to get their kids to eat. And then here I am on the, because we have a little cousin like that, he’s, his, his mama has tried so many things, you know, and still is on a journey to help him, help him be able to eat. They’re on a journey. And then here I am over here with like the opposite, right? Like ever since my little guy was little, I mean he just loved, loved it. Like more and more and more and more and more and more and more, right? So it’s just interesting how it’s a different, like I’m just brainstorming, like, how can I create the safety?
Because for a lot of people it’s like, eat more. And here I am over here like bringing in these messages of like, stop eating, eat less. Like you shouldn’t be hungry. Eat more water now. Add fruit if you’re still hungry, give it 20 minutes. You know? So it’s like I’m playing around with these messages and making sure that whatever, I think it’s, maybe it’s this, it comes down to the tone, right? Like the story in your head, if you’re like telling your child, Hey, let’s give it 20 minutes, let’s have a little water and then if we’re still hungry, we can go in and make some fruit and honey or whatever. And your story is like, Hey, I’m gonna te- in your head is like, hey, I would, I want, I am invested and committed to learning alongside my child how to listen to our body and nurture ourselves.
And like all the things, like if that’s in your head and that’s your story, that’s different than, oh my gosh, I’m scared that he’s gonna like gain a bunch of weight, never be able to come back. Or oh my gosh, this is like, what’s wrong with him. Like if that’s the message in my head that I’m listening to and engaging with, then my tone is gonna come out different, which will create non-safety for him. Would that be accurate? Unyime,
Unyime:
Yeah. I, I think so. And also even the positive side, like when parents are like, Oh look, you ate your food. That’s also a form of pressure because guess what? Next time they wanna impress you as well. So if the parent is on the opposite side where the child is always eating, having, making that comment of do you still want more? Could also be a form of pressure for them. I always just remind us that, you know what, our children’s bodies know exactly what to do with the food that they’re eating, right? So if there, there’s nothing medically wrong, there will be those moments where they just want to eat and sometimes let them, and then we can just bring up a conversation like, Oh, I noticed that you just love eating this much.
Tell me about that. Right? We’re just having a conversation. We’re not trying to talk about health. We’re not trying to talk about, Oh you’re no, we’re just saying let’s talk about that. And sometimes some children you’ll notice it’s like, oh yeah, the food is really the comfort for them because throughout the day there’s been so much happening that they just need that food. My daughter went through that as well, I think two summers, or maybe four summers ago when we moved. And I found out it was actually the, the stress and anxiety of moving that caused her to really just wanna eat all the time. So we talked about that, Okay, well how can we find other ways to process those emotions? But it came from that place of trusting that their body knows exactly what to do.
So even if the body just wants them to keep eating, I’m not gonna interfere with that. Because at the end of the day, the body will know how to work around that and they will land at the weight that their body needs to be at.
Wendy:
Here’s my question. My little devil’s advocate is going off. I’m like, God, I’m gonna challenge Unyime here. Darn it, I gotta do it. And okay, but here’s my, here’s my fear that I feel like sometimes as humans, we get into a habit of not listening to our body. So our body knows what to do, our body knows to stop. And I’m just learning this at 45. I mean, I just started learning this that oftentimes I go past full and I never realized it until I started monitoring it and realizing like, Oh, my body’s actually full now and there’s five bites left on my plate that I, I grew up a plate cleaner. Terry, Terry and I both, we joke that we’re plate cleaners, but like it was never, and I, I never knew that you didn’t have to finish your plate.
So I’m learning at 45 how to like listen to my body, right? So, so I were, and I, I guess I shouldn’t worry, I should just say I want to teach him from a respectful way how to start listening to your body from a young age. Is that appropriate?
Unyime:
I would say it depends on the child, right? Some children are more aware of their sensations than others. So I’m going to skip,
Wendy:
He’s almost 12 now.
Unyime:
He’s almost 12. So we’re getting into one of the other topics that I wanted to touch on, I’m just gonna bring it here. And this is being, staying curious about their relationship with food, right? So we’re being curious if we’re curious, what are we asking? We’re just saying, Hmm, I wonder what’s going on here? Tell me more. Right? These are the questions that are gonna help us. Instead of thinking, well how do I fix? More like, okay, what’s happening, right? So if we’re coming from, we’re exploring rather than there’s something that needs to be fixed, our approach is gonna be different. And remember the child can smell our agenda even if we don’t say it right?
So we really need to go back and think like, okay, what’s going on in my mind now that I wanna talk to my son about this? Why do I wanna talk about it? And you keep asking why until you get to the root where it’s like, oh, I see. That’s why. Right? And then once you are cleaning your thinking, then you can approach him with like, I’m just being curious. I noticed this and I’m concerned. Do you know what it feels like when you’re full? Just simply-
Wendy:
it’s OK to say concerned?
Unyime:
Yeah. You can say you’re concerned, but then the question then becomes why you concerned, right?
Wendy:
Right.
Unyime:
So this is where, where it gets challenging for parents. Cuz you start asking yourself those questions and you really wanna get clear on why you’re asking this question for him. Maybe, oh, I just wanna know and I’m learning new things. Like you’re learning on your journey that sometimes we don’t trust ourselves and we don’t know when we’re hungry and when we’re full and we can eat past when we’re full, let’s just talk about it. That opens up that room for conversation.
Wendy:
Oh, so good. I, I feel like I’m, I’m not judging myself. I am looking at it, I’m like, okay, I did a lot of that and I feel like I have a clear direction on where I wanna massage my thoughts. You know, like I’m so, like I hang out with you and I’m like, I am not gonna judge myself. So I was about to say change my thoughts. I’m just gonna massage, I’m just gonna try different thoughts. I’m gonna check in with myself and there’s one last thing that is on our list to cover and then we’ll make sure we end with listeners knowing where to find you Unyime, cuz you are just amazing. But talk to us real quick about modeling the culture of eating and drinking you want for your family, which probably is the most important one, right?
Unyime:
I think we’ve gotta talked about, that’s true, this episode.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Unyime:
Just like you, so many of us are still working and doing this journey. I always come back to we can’t teach our children, we can’t get them to do anything. The best way that we can help our children grow up and have a healthy relationship with food is by modeling and modeling the whole range. Like I remember when the, the pandemic happened and then we had shut down here and we opened back up and then we shut down again. My husband and I literally went out, bought brownies and we were like, right now we’re feeling very emotional and we’re going to eat this. And our kids were like, Look at you guys. Right? Like we showed them in that moment we weren’t gonna feel ashamed about it, it’s just what we needed to soothe us.
So let your children see the range of your relationship with food. Today. I’m struggling and I feel like I needed the two glasses of wine to get me through, but that’s okay. It’s what I needed right now. Tomorrow I get to try again. Right. When our children see this part of us, cause that’s the part that nobody talks about, that’s the part that gets hidden. So when our children feel like that’s what they want, they hide it and it becomes this overeating and emotional eating on this side. But it’s almost like, well, I don’t know what it feels like when I’m feeling stressed and I just wanna have a bar of chocolate. So we have to model it.
Wendy:
And then they judge. They judge themselves.
Unyime:
Exactly.
Wendy:
And then it gets worse and worse and worse.
Unyime:
Exactly. That’s how we break the cycle, is let’s just put it all out there and talk to our children. These are the conversations that’ll help them to learn, Oh, when my mom did this, this is what happened. How do I wanna engage with food? Right. Instead of reading something and we’re like, Oh, according to this doctor, you should not do this and this and this. And they’re like, They already know how to do all that stuff from school. They’re on social media, they’re watching TV. Things- diet culture is teaching our children every day how to relate with food. The best way we can teach them and get them to do whatever, which I know we can’t do, is to model our behavior.
Wendy:
That is so fascinating, Unyime, because I would’ve never guessed that we should show and tell our children like, Look, we, we were emotionally eating last night. And that’s okay. Like I, that’s so groundbreaking to me because you’re right. Anything that’s hidden is gonna be a problem. And then, and then when you, when you’re hiding it, then you can, it’s almost like a guaranteed that they’re gonna end up hiding something. Right? Yeah. So I can just so see like where we’ve done that, where we wanna like teach them, not too emotionally eat, but we do it by hiding the fact that we emotionally, and again for Terry and I, you know, it’s usually I’m an extra beer or wine or whatever, but it’s still, it’s the same thing.
Like it’s so, I’m just so excited to apply everything that we’ve talked about, Unyime. I, I just feel so encouraged and inspired to, I’m gonna listen to this again after the editor gets done with it. I’m gonna listen to it again. Maybe I’ll listen to it a few times, but just how encouraging. Thank you for taking time to be with us today. Will you tell listeners where they can find you and all the things?
Unyime:
You’re so welcome and I’m so happy that we had this conversation. I think we need to be having more of these. So thank you for the opportunity to bring this into the light because we’re all going through it. Like you said, it’s a journey and the more we talk about it, the more we realize that we’re all in this together, the more we can build a community that supports children who will grow up and not have to do the same things that we did. Right?
Wendy:
Yeah.
Unyime:
So we’re on a podcast. People can find me on the Thriving Mum Podcast, on all podcast players. I’m also on my website, OliveandBliss.ca on Instagram and Facebook. I’m @OliveandBlissWellness. And yeah, come and have a chat. Let me know what you learned and what you’re applying and where’s your little devil’s advocate showing up? Let’s talk about it.
Wendy:
Yes. And I don’t know if you remember what episode I was on. Do you know the number? Probably not. But you could probably Google Fresh Start Family Show on Thriving Mum podcast. But that might be fun for listeners too, to hear our conversation. I forget what we talked about, but I remember it was rich.
Unyime:
Oh, it was this strong willed child.
Wendy:
Yes. The strong willed child. And how funny that that came out in our conversation today around, oh my gosh, going against ourselves like the rebel. How beautiful. But yeah, listeners go give, Unyime some love. As you can tell, she is just so wise and we are just so thankful for your time. Unyime thank you from the bottom of my heart for the light filled work that you are doing in the world.
Unyime:
Thank you, Wendy.
Wendy:
All right, families, that’s a wrap. I hope you loved today’s episode as much as I loved recording it for you. If you want to learn more from me, one of the best ways to do that is to hop into one of my free workshops. This month I’m teaching all about Responsive Parenting and you can join me by saving your seat over at freshstartfamilyonline.com/freeclass.
For links and more info about everything we talked about in today’s episode, head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/146.
Stella:
For more information, go to freshstartfamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening, families, have a great day.
