This week on The Fresh Start Family Show, Wendy sits down with Dr. Ilyse Dobrow DiMarco, a Clinical Psychologist with a specialty in CBT – cognitive behavioral therapy. She is also the author of Mom Brain: Proven Strategies to Fight the Anxiety, Guilt, and Overwhelming Emotions of Motherhood. Her science-based strategies work for kids of all ages and support moms to cope with the common challenges of motherhood.
Moms do the juggle of motherhood so well. With a million things we are in charge of, we often find ourselves experiencing something referred to as Mom Brain. Dr. DiMarco defines Mom Brain as the way we shift what takes priority and precedence in our lives once we are parents.
Wendy and Dr. DiMarco chat about the science-backed strategies that can help put our busy brains at ease and enjoy life more – especially during the holiday season, which for most parents … is one of the most magical, but also stressful times of year.
Tune in to get inspired & empowered to prevent & avoid holiday overwhelm & anxiety with confidence!
Do you have a strong-willed, challenging kiddo always pushing limits …?!
If yes, I’ve got a FREE gift for you!
This free planning guide & worksheet will teach you firm & kind strategies, give you ways to build connection & offer ideas on how to work WITH your kids instead of trying to change them or just MAKE them comply.
Episode Highlights:
- Having realistic expectations helps us find the small wins
- We’re setting ourselves up for disappointment when we expect a “perfect” experience
- Being mindful and in the moment helps us slow down and appreciate the experience
- Our kids won’t necessarily have the same interests and memories that we did and that’s ok
- Understand that many of the “mom fails” are actually out of our control
- Showing ourselves compassion when things go differently than we planned
- Delegating and relinquishing some control over the holidays can help reduce stress
- Assure ourselves that we can handle even the worst case scenarios
Resources Mentioned:
Where to connect with Dr. Ilyse:
Her Book Mom Brain
Sign up for Wendy’s Newsletter!
Uplift Kids trial – and don’t forget the special discount code freshstart
Free Guide to Raising Strong Willed Kids
Special thanks to Uplift Kids for their continued support of the Fresh Start Family Show!
Not able to listen or want to read along with us?
Here is the episode transcript!
This episode is brought to you by the free Fresh Start Family learning guide: how to raise strong-willed kids with integrity so you don’t lose your mind. We understand what it’s like, families, to raise kids who push back a lot, maybe push buttons often, and say ‘no’ more than they say ‘yes’, and we’re here to help. You can download our free learning guide at freshstartfamilyonline.com/strongwilledkids.
Wendy:
Hello, hello. Welcome back to the Fresh Start Family Show. I’m your host, Wendy Snyder, positive parenting educator and family life coach. And today on the show we have Dr. Ilyse Dobrow DiMarco, who is talking to us about how we can prevent holiday overwhelm and anxiety. And this is such a a great time of year to look at this because with the holidays coming up, we know that it can be such a magical time, but for many of us, it’s also a season of massive stress, anxiety, guilt, and overwhelm if we’re being honest. So if you have perfectionist tendencies, especially when trying to create the air quotes, perfect holiday memories, this episode is really going to inspire you to maybe take a few chill pills, prepare for the onslaught of activities with maybe a little bit more intention, and also it’s going to inspire you just to enjoy your experiences so much more easily this year.
So I wanna take a moment just to tell you about Dr. Ilyse Dobrow. She is a clinical psychologist and writer based in Summit, New Jersey, specializing in cognitive behavioral therapy for maternal anxiety and stress. Her writing has been featured in the Washington Post, parents.com, Today Parenting, Mother Well, Motherly, Psychology Today, Scary Mommy and The Week. She is the author of Mom Brain: Proven Strategies to Fight the Anxiety, Guilt, and Overwhelming Emotions of Motherhood and Relax into Your New Self. So I am really hoping that this episode just blesses you with just kind of an extra layer of preparation to avoid overwhelm and anxiety this holiday season.
And as always, you guys, if you love this episode as you are listening, please just take a screenshot real quick. Usually, you know, 99% of you are listening while you’re on your phone. So it’s really easy just to snap a screenshot and then share to social. I am really active over on Instagram where I do a ton of free teaching and inspirational content, but you can find me there. I’m at Fresh Start, Wendy. So share to social media making sure that you tag me and just thank you from the bottom of my heart. Every time you share our show, whether you’re telling a friend, you know, a neighbor on the block, or a pal at your Bible study, or someone that you maybe text your sister-in-law or and say, “Hey, you should listen to this episode” or share to your social account.
It helps us reach more and more families across the world. And we have such a mission here at Fresh Start Family to really get the message and the educational work of Positive Parenting into the hands as is to as many parents and families that we can. So thank you for being a part of that. If you’re not on our email list yet, make sure you hop on. You can head to the Fresh Start Family website, freshstartfamilyonline.com, and grab our free learning guide that’ll get you onto our email list so we can be in communication every week. Every single week I send out an email just letting you know what our fresh podcast of the week is. I also send inspirational messages and tips and let you know when we’re having promotions on our programs.
And also send you invitations for our free events when we have them, whether it’s free workshops, sometimes we do free challenges, sometimes we do free online master classes. We just have a ton of free content that we do here and we would love to be able to communicate with you on a consistent basis in your email box. So head on over to freshstartfamilyonline.com to grab your free learning guide, hop on the email list. Thank you in advance for sharing. I love you all. And without further ado, help me welcome Dr. Ilyse to the show.
Stella:
Well, hey there, I’m Stella. Welcome to my mom and dad’s podcast, the Fresh Start Family Show. We’re so happy you’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean, Jesus, and rock and roll, and believe deeply in the true power of love and kindness. Together we hope to inspire you to expand your heart, learn new tools, and strengthen your family. Enjoy the show.
Wendy:
Hey there families. Welcome to a new episode of The Fresh Start Family Show. I am really excited to be here today with Dr. Ilyse Dobrow DiMarco, and we are going to be talking today about preventing holiday anxiety. Welcome to the show.
Dr. Ilyse:
Thank you so much for having me.
Wendy:
Yes. All right, well, Dr. DiMarco, and, and if it’s okay if I call you Ilyse during this interview,
Dr. Ilyse:
Absolutely, please do.
Wendy:
Perfect. Okay. I know that we’re just gonna have the best interview today because I think God works in mysterious ways and I’m telling you, I had such an like an anxiety flare up today, and I know you are such an incredible helper of moms when it comes to mom brain and anxiety flare ups. And so I’m just feeling really thankful for this little flare up that I had this morning because I feel like I’m just so fresh for this conversation and just gonna eat up every piece of your wisdom today. So thank you really for spending time with us. I know the holidays is that time of year where many of us, as as moms and parents, we just get those flare ups where your heart is pounding and it just feels like there is literally a million freaking things to do.
Yeah. And there’s never enough time. And then the kids feel our stress and then they start misbehaving. And then your dreams of this perfect holiday go to crap. And I just feel like it’s this recipe for disaster. And so to be able to get your wisdom today, Ilyse, to counteract that and prepare for that is gonna be really, really beautiful. So before we get started, the community has heard all about you a little bit, but before we started recording, but will you tell us your personal story about why you wrote this book a little bit more about your book and why you’re so passionate about helping moms in this capacity and then also what mom brain is?
Dr. Ilyse:
Sure. So I was trained, I have a PhD in clinical psychology. I was trained to specialize in CBT or cognitive behavioral therapy for anxiety. And CBT, for those of you who don’t know, is a present moment focus, research supported type of treatment that really deals with giving you strategies to help you manage when you’re struggling in the here and now. So I had been trained to do CBT for, you know, variety of, of kinds of anxiety. And then as I was starting out my professional career, I was also starting my family. I have two sons who are now 11 and eight. So as I was starting my career, I think by virtue of my age and stage in life at that time, I was seeing a lot of women who were at the same age and stage in life coming to see me for anxiety and related issues.
And what I found was that the strategies developed in research studies for anxiety disorders, like obsessive compulsive disorder or generalized anxiety disorder or panic disorder, actually translated really, really well to help me and the moms that I was working with to navigate the many emotional ups and downs and upheavals of parenthood. So, you know, the more moms I saw and the more I was moving my own way through, you know, my sort of motherhood journey, the more I was convinced like, wow, CBT tools are great for moms and for parents generally, how do I get these tools into the hands of parents? So that was kind of what inspired me to start writing about it because while there was a lot out there, again, you know, CBT for for, you know, OCD or GAD, there really wasn’t much out there translating these strategies for parents.
So I started writing kinda short articles in, in popular parenting blogs and such, and then started doing kind of short videos about it. And it, it eventually led to my writing the book Mom Brain, which really includes like everything I do with moms, you know, it runs the gamut from like the book talks about maternal identity and how that changes when you have a kid and what you do about that maternal emotions and how you learn to accept your emotions and being compassionate towards yourself when you’re struggling. Two chapters on anxiety, there’s a chapter on perfectionism, there’s a bunch of chapters on relationships and relationship changes with your partner, with friends, with extended family. Relevant to our conversation today, there is a whole chapter on holidays and vacations and how you navigate that.
And I should say too, that the, the book is geared towards parents of kids who are aged zero to five, but the strategies really are evergreen. So even if you have kids who are older than that, like you will benefit from reading it because the strategies remain the same. I picked this population honestly because I felt like the sooner parents could start employing these strategies after they had kids, the better because they really, really, you know, help moms and, and, and any other parents or guardians manage their mental health effectively.
Wendy:
I love it
Dr. Ilyse:
So that’s my story.
Wendy:
Yeah. Yep. And I, and your book is beautiful because you have all these great science based strategies and the psychology side of it, but then you’re just really relatable and funny and like, and I think, yeah. I just think that’s so important for, I know our community is we really love a good relatable mentor or teacher or author or psychologist. So that’s an important part I think, of your writing too. Awesome. And then tell us a little bit about how you define mom brain. Cause I think a lot of people joke that it’s like, oh, you forget where you put your wa like this morning I lost my coffee. Right. I literally, I just, I was like, dang it, what, what the literal, I lost, I’m like running around everywhere.
My amazing house cleaners here. And you know, that’s like this hilarious modern day thing where we get all stressed out when our amazing help comes because our, we have to pick up the house for the house cleaner. And it sounds so, it sounds so entitled to joke about it, but it’s, it’s like this flare up of anxiety there. And then, you know, I just lost my coffee. I’m like, wow, I’m such a failure. But tell us, like, I know that we joke about it’s forgetting our coffee and where our shoes were, but it’s a lot more than that. So tell us what your definition of mom brain is.
Dr. Ilyse:
Yeah, and you know, a lot has come out recently, like, you know, even since I started working on the book, which, you know, originally was, was five years ago. Like a lot has come out about mom brain recently. And yes, I think in popular culture the idea is like, you know, we forget, you know, I wear a coffee is, or our shoes or our cellphone or, or you know, those kinds of things. But really more fundamentally, like what we’ve, we’ve now seen through research studies is that like our brain actually changes when we become parents. And I say parents, not just, you don’t have to have given birth to your child to experience these brain changes. It’s really, really fascinating. And there, there’s a lot of, as I said, really cool stuff out there, particularly over the past couple of years.
A lot has come out. The way that I think about it and the way that I, I define mom brain for myself is that like when you become, you know, a parent kids kind of zoom to the top of your mental priority list. Yeah. They just become top of mind. But so what happens with that? That’s great by the way, you know, because we want that, we wanna be able to, you know, always have kids top of mind and, and because we’re, we’re there to help them grow and thrive. But the downside of that is, of course that other things that might have been higher on the list fall behind, right. Or maybe fall off the list entirely. So that’s the way I think about mom brain and I think more generally about just the seismic shifts in the way we think about every aspect of our life when we become parents, right?
The things we value change really dramatically. Our identities change really dramatically. Our relationships change really dramatically. So to me, all of that is part of mom brain or, or for me, you know, fits under the mom brain umbrella.
Wendy:
Yeah. And I just, it, it feels like it screams just like overwhelm to me too. And maybe it’s just the space I am right now, like in, in this particular moment, which again, I’m just using the full capacity. Like right now, I can hear the trash truck going on outside and I’m like, shit, do we forget to put the trash out? And then I’m also thinking like, gosh, I wonder how my son’s doing today. I also have an 11, you said 11 year old son, right? Yeah,
Dr. Ilyse:
Yep. Sixth grader.
Wendy:
Yes. My sixth grader like got word yesterday that like he like has a crush on a girl. And it turned into this like horrible thing where, where her friends are like making fun of him. And so as we’re like speaking today, like it’s just so funny. My brain is like a ping pong, right? It like kind of goes around to like all these things that you’re thinking of, like, I wonder how he’s doing today. And that was in combination with like, shit, we probably forgot to put out the trash and you know, Terry’s has a busy day at work too. It’s just, yeah, it feels, it feels at times, of course we have, you know, good days and bad days, but there’s those moments where it just feels like the self doubt, the anxiety and the overwhelm just kind of comes into this perfect storm.
And that’s when you’re just like, man, this my brain, my brain almost hurts. Like, it, it’s too much for one brain to handle.
Dr. Ilyse:
Yep.
Wendy:
So today, yeah, let’s get into what we can do to kind of combat this or settle our brains when we’re having these like moments or these flareups, which we all know that December, early January, even starting in November can sometimes create right, the perfect storm. And so the first thing we were gonna talk about today, Ilyse, is just the idea of getting your expect, like making your expectations low, which, you know, in the book you have a chapter on perfectionism and I know we have so many families in our communities that really identify full blown claimant as perfectionist. I think perfectionism is so fascinating cuz I think it’s so related to shame and criticism and the way a lot of us were raised.
But talk to us about your recommendations on setting expectations low.
Dr. Ilyse:
Okay, yeah. So I always think about my experience with my sons, my older son’s first Halloween, which was back, it would’ve been October of 2011. And for any of your listeners who are from the northeast, they may recall that there was a snowstorm in October. It was very bizarre. And prior to the snowstorm, I was like so excited about my son’s first Halloween, I bought his costume like, you know, six weeks early. And I had all these plans and we were gonna go all these places and it was gonna be so magical. And I, like, I could not wait. And then we had a full on snowstorm at, I think it was maybe October 28th or 29th, which killed the power in my town. And Halloween was canceled and I just cried, like cried, cried, cried.
And then what followed that was like a whole year’s worth of like overblown holiday expectations that like ended in disaster. So like, you know, we did like his holiday photo shoot and we made all these like fake presents that he was supposed to hold and he wouldn’t stop eating the presents. So all we we have is pictures of him like gumming, these, these, you know, present boxes. And like every, every holiday I realized was a crushing disappointment to me. And what occurred to me later was that the problem was my expectations, right? I was like, you know, every first holiday from my son, it was like, oh, this is gonna be the best, you know, first Christmas, first Thanksgiving, first, you know, whatever. And, and in reality, when you have kids, right, you can never craft those perfect holidays because something always goes wrong.
There’s so much you don’t have control over. So when I started working with moms on this topic, like I talked a lot about, and now and continue to talk a lot about really setting expectations low for holidays.
Families I want to thank Uplift Kids for supporting the Fresh Start Family Show and give you a discount code. Uplift Kids makes it easy for families to nurture spirituality, emotional health, and timeless values, which we talked about when we interviewed them for the Fresh Start Family Show episode 130 titled The Benefits of Spirituality for Kids. I think what they’re doing is pretty special, so if you’re a parent who wants to create a culture of meaning, acceptance and reflection at home, head over to Upliftkids.org and use the code freshstart to get a two week free trial and a 10% off description. The trial gives you immediate access to their entire library for teens, kids, and littles so you can easily talk about values like kindness, gratitude, and humility along with emotional intelligence, spirituality, wisdom practices and more. So if you’re looking for engaging ways to nurture values from the world‘s wisdom traditions and the latest psychological research, check out upliftkids.org and use the code freshstart – all one word. You’ll have a year’s worth of meaningful and transformative conversations at home. Once again you can find them and learn more at upliftkids.org. OK back to the show.
In other words, going into it not thinking, oh my gosh, this is my baby’s first Thanksgiving. It’s going to be, you know, a magical ride. But instead being like, yeah, this is probably gonna be a disaster. Like the Thanksgiving dinner is called for right during my baby’s nap and they’re probably gonna be a mess and they’ll probably be throwing food. And, and, and what I like to tell my patients is like, so, so don’t expect these magical holidays because again, there’s too much we can’t control with kids.
We’ll never get ’em. But also like try if you can to like celebrate smaller things. So for example, it’s like if you can get your kid to sit at the Thanksgiving table for like 10 minutes, maybe think to yourself ahead of time, all right, I’m gonna call that a win. If I can get my kid to like sit at the high chair at the table for like 10 minutes so the relatives can ooh and ahh a little bit and then let the kid go wherever, I’m gonna consider that a victory as opposed to being like, okay, put my kid in in their best outfit and they’re gonna sit nicely and everyone’s gonna, you know, ooh and ahh over them for like three hours during dinner. Like, it’s just not gonna happen. So it’s a combination I think, of setting our expectations low, but also, you know, reminding ourselves of like, okay, what would a win look like to me?
Right? I talk in the book too about like, yeah, holiday photo shoots and how maybe a win is if you get one halfway decent picture where everyone’s looking at the camera and that’s it. Not like a, you know, a huge gallery of beautiful photos, but just one. So it’s, it’s low expectations and again, calling out when these low expectations have been met.
Wendy:
Yes. And, and maybe let’s just get like tactical here, like real life examples for a minute. And, and it’s so true. The, the photo shoots when I look back in time, those were some of the most stressful experiences of my life as a parent. And you’re right, like you think you’re gonna have this collection, right? Like you’re gonna have one of them, one of the siblings that’s really good, you’re gonna have like, but just really talking to yourself ahead of time and just reminding yourself, it’s okay, it’s okay if we just get one, it’s gonna be, and that’s like how full blown, I mean my husband’s a full blown like creative director and he does these huge photo shoots where they take thousands of photos and he is always like, well we just need that one, we need that one star one for these campaigns.
So it’s not unwise to really set the expectations low, but like, say, so another thing that we used to do a lot when the kids were littler was we would go to like the Garden of Lights here and sometimes we would go with other families and there’d be the carriage ride and there was like roasting marshmallows and there was all these things. But instead, like, I’m trying to see the strategy there is like setting expectations low, like being real with all the things that you want it to be, right? Like I think there’s power in like visioning that things go well, but also being, just being okay if the kids bicker, if they fight in line to, to who’s on first on the wagon? Like just expecting, okay, well they’re probably, it’s gonna be, they’re gonna be tired cuz it’s gonna be late.
So they’re probably gonna fight, they’re probably gonna, you know, be running around during the performance when the choir sings and I’ll have to get creative and do this or whatever. And then there might be a meltdown at the end of the night because we might keep ’em up too late, right? Like maybe that’s like setting expectations low is like, might look like that in like a tactical way. And then also the win would be like, we got everyone on the, like the the win was we got everyone on that wagon, which I loved. I used to love to ride this horse drawn carriage and just look at the stars and the lights around me. Like that’s the moment, the big takeaway from the night, like maybe choose one takeaway that’s like, wow. Yeah, that was really magical to have my little kids and my arms and I got to see the stars and the lights and then I handled the argument and the meltdown.
Dr. Ilyse:
Yeah. Yeah, it’s like, it’s, it’s like say, I mean I talk a lot about mindfulness in the book and that’s what you’re describing, like having a mindful moment where you’ve got your kids and you’re looking at the stars and you’re thinking, oh my gosh, this right, this is amazing. And, and savoring that as opposed to thinking about maybe the rest of the time, which was perhaps less, you know, less magical. And, and I’ll say too, like I think one of the mistakes that I made was like assuming that the things that were magical for me as a child would necessarily be magical for my sons. You know, and, and dealing with that, like disappointment, this is a small example, but like I loved watching the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day parade and I watched it like
Wendy:
Right, me too.
Dr. Ilyse:
Yeah. Every year and maybe now it’s because there’s so much competing with it with, you know, everything YouTube and whatever, but like my kids just don’t like it. And at first I was so upset because I wanted them to sit and watch it with me and I like, you know, kind of like set the scene and they wanted like nothing to do with it. And then I had to come to realize like this was my memory, you know, and, and, and my preference, but not necessarily, you know, what my kids want for the holidays. And so that has been part of it too. And what I tell you know, patients as well is like you can make new memories with your family based on your circumstances, which are probably pretty different than the circumstances under which you were raised.
Wendy:
Yeah. And the expectation could be that maybe they just watched the first 10 minutes with you before they turn on their YouTube on their device.
Dr. Ilyse:
For me it was like, just watch Hamilton on there guys, like let’s just do the Hamilton number, we’ll see Lin-Manuel Miranda and then you can, you can do whatever you want.
Wendy:
Right, right, right. So good. Okay, let’s talk about our second strategy to prevent holiday anxiety or handle it with integrity so to speak, is have compassion with the mom fails. Our community is definitely familiar with this concept. Let’s talk about it from your perspective, especially when it comes to the holidays and just knowing that there’s gonna be so many times where we’re just like, well we blew that one or we didn’t do that. Like again, I feel like this morning I’m looking around, I’m like, oh, failure, failure failure. Mom fail, mom fail, mom fail. So talk to us about having compassion.
Dr. Ilyse:
Yes. So I talk a lot in the book in general about us having compassion towards ourselves for anything we perceived didn’t go perfectly or even sort of, well, and certainly that happens during the holidays a lot. One of the things I always think about is like my, when my niece who is now a senior in college, when she was really small there was an Elmo that was popular at Chicken Dance Elmo maybe. And my father had bought like the last one in the store and he was so proud of himself, like, oh my gosh, I’m gonna give her the chicken dance Elmo and she’s gonna love it. And meanwhile my mom was just shopping and, and randomly picked up some like, you know, baby doll that was probably like 10 bucks from the store for my niece.
Yeah. So like obviously fast forward and my niece is like opening the presence and my dad is looking at chicken dance Elmo with anticipation and my niece basically sees chicken dance Elmo sees the doll and tosses chicken dance Elmo and spends the whole, you know, day just with this doll and this, you know, cheap stroller, whatever. And like to me that that always encapsulates like this idea of like, yeah, you sometimes don’t get it right. Whether it’s like the, the, you know, the gifts you purchase or the meals you serve or the, you know, whatever it is, like you’re not always gonna get it right. I also say in the book, like, and this is for everybody, not just people who who celebrate Christmas, but just generally speaking, like parents, you are not Santa or whatever, you know, whatever the version of like
Wendy:
Yes.
Dr. Ilyse:
Meaning like, you, you can’t, you can’t always create magical moments. And so, you know, again, I think that the how self-compassion really ties in with the expectations, right? Of like expecting that like not everything is gonna go off flawlessly. And, and also, you know, I, I talk a lot about how parents in the book, I say specifically moms oftentimes hold themselves responsible for way too much. And so, like for example, if a holiday doesn’t go well, I, I feel like a lot of the moms I work with will be like, well that was my fault and how did I screw this up and how can I prevent it when the truth is there’s so many factors at play when you’re dealing with a holiday with children, many of which are totally out of your control, like I was saying before.
And so I think that’s a real important thing to keep in mind, you know, to, to be compassionate towards yourself for these fails is to say like, yeah, there were a lot of forces here operating way beyond my control, right? Like you were just saying, I think that was such a good example with the, with the holiday event that you attended. Like even just the fact that it’s later than your kid’s bedtime, you’re, you can’t control that, right? That’s when the event is scheduled for, but that also means that your kid’s gonna be cranky and there’s nothing you can do about that. So I think that’s a big piece of, of, of self-compassion is recognizing all of the forces that are out of your control. And then, you know, also I think we’ll talk a little bit more about sort of thinking through worst case scenarios.
But another thing is really thinking about, okay, like really how bad was this? How bad was this fail? Right? A fail according to me maybe, but would my kid call this a fail? Right. Or would anybody else call this a fail?
Wendy:
Yeah. They’re so resilient with forgiveness. It’s beautiful. Yeah. I, and I know I’ve heard you talk too, or maybe, maybe I’m remembering from the book, but like the using AND a lot, right? Like I, and I teach this to my students a lot too, right? Instead of, but so it’s like if you burned the stuffing or the Turkey AND you like killed it on the green beans or whatever it may be, or if you, like you blew it and you didn’t wake up early and prepare the like presents whatever and they, and the kids came down before you and you’re like, oh my gosh, I’m the worst mom. Like they came downstairs and everything wasn’t even wrapped or – I’m just making stuff up right now – AND like, oh my gosh, I got that thing that like they really wanted and they were so happy when they opened it or whatever.
I’ve seen you give some great examples where you had shared once a video where it was like, here like I screwed up a ton today, like forgot to order my son’s yearbook. There was something else that day and you were like, ah, I could beat myself up or, and here’s some things that I did nail it, I did nail it at, right? Like I don’t know if what you said, if it was like I provided, I packed healthy lunches, I got everyone out the door to school on time. So like really counteracting the, as soon as the like failure becomes evident because I think especially the people who show up in our community, they really give a damn, like they really show up because they care about their kids, they care about their family.
And again, like often developing perfectionism qualities as they’ve grown older I think is like a, is just a symptom of like how how many of us were raised with like the criticism or punishment, right?
Dr. Ilyse:
And what our culture says about moms too. I mean I think our culture in a lot of ways sends a message that moms have to be perfect and martyrs and sacrifice themselves at all times and you know, so I think there’s a lot of like cultural messaging around that as well.
Wendy:
Yeah. So the, so what we see the failures very, very easily, we classify them as failures. So if we can just counteract them like adding on the AND so it’s just like, and let’s just find one thing that you did like, so everything that we, the mom fail the compassion. Like I love to have like real life like practices to build the compassion, right? Cause I think it’s such an advanced task for so many of my students and I know it was for myself as I was on my journey to like be able to develop and finally 12 years after all the life coaching in the world in this work, I’m finally like, I’m doing pretty darn good. Like most days I’m not beating myself up anymore.
I catch the language, all the things. And I did wanna ask you about that before we move on. Next we’re gonna talk about pre-planning, which is such a great concept. But I did wanna ask you when it comes to CBT – not to be confused with CBD – sometimes CBD is great,
Dr. Ilyse:
Sure.
Wendy:
Right? As far as like your practices with your clients. Does CBD incorporate healing work? Because I think this, this one, this one point of have compassion with yourself I just think requires so much healing underneath. So we have life coaching programs here at Fresh Start Family that we teach, that we just do so much healing through healing work. But like, does CBT include like deep healing work? Cuz that’s really what I find is allows the layers of the onion to be pulled back so to speaks to actually be able to access the compassion right. Does CBT include that?
Dr. Ilyse:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean CBT is a really, like
Wendy:
I said cbd! CBT.
Dr. Ilyse:
We got it. We got it. Yeah. So, you know, CBT is actually, you know, I think one of the, the sort of myths about CBT because much of it was developed in, in the context of research studies is that it’s very mechanical and it’s very like rote and that actually could not be farther from the truth. It’s actually very individualized. And when I meet somebody new, I spend a lot of time getting to know them, getting to understand their past. And, and this is another thing too, you know, CBT is not focused on unpacking one’s childhood per se. And so sometimes CBT gets a wrap of like, well, you don’t care about the past. Not true we do, but we really look to the past to, to give us clues into what’s going on in the present, right?
And, and how things in the present sort of came to be. And so absolutely if you have someone who’s coming in say, so, so there’s some great CBT treatments, say for like post-traumatic stress right now. This is somebody who obviously needs very, very deep healing, right? And, and really needs help coming to terms with some significant, you know, historical events in their lives. So as part of CBT, like you’re, you’re doing that a lot, right? It’s not as if you are saying, oh, you know, you have this very traumatic history. Here, fill out a thought record. You know? Yeah. It, it is really, so, so once again, like the treatment is really tailored towards what the individual’s need is and, and, and you did mention teaching self-compassion and we do in CBT, we do a lot of mindful self-compassion work where through the use of mindfulness exercises and through the use of sort of present moment focused techniques, we really help people to learn how to show themselves compassion and, and to be compassionate towards themselves when they’re having a hard time emotionally.
Wendy:
Yeah, yeah. That makes so much sense. So cool. Okay, good, good to hear about. And and for psychologists like you, Ilyse, you have to be in your state to see you, right? Is that how it works with like, so we could, everyone could get your book but it actually to order to actually see you. How does that work? Or do you offer life coaching services too?
Dr. Ilyse:
Okay, so, so it’s, it’s funny because the pandemic has really changed how we do CBT. I personally am licensed in New Jersey, New York and I have a Telehealth license for Florida, meaning if you physically live in New Jersey, New York or Florida, I can see you via Telehealth or you know, in person of course. But there is also something called PSYPACT, which if you apply for it allows you to see people in a bunch of different states. I’ve not yet done that, but there are a lot of CBT folks who have, and it has to be a state that participates in PSYPACT in order for the reciprocity, you know, to be able to, to make use of the reciprocity. But there’s a number of states that participate now. So as I said, for me currently it’s New York, New Jersey and Florida.
That may change, I may go ahead and do the PSYPACT thing at some point, but meanwhile, if there’s a CBT person who seems really amazing who’s not in your state, like check out and see if they have PSYPACT certification and then you may be able to see them, you know, via Telehealth.
Wendy:
Yeah, that is so cool. That’s one of the benefits, right, of Covid that they’re, it’s like, it was awful but it was also, there were some things and there were some things that really changed the world that came out of it, you know?
Dr. Ilyse:
Oh, my industry. Completely.
Wendy:
Yeah. Oh I bet. Yeah. And like the high level VPs now, like to have my husband home twice a week is life changing now. It’s like expected, like you can get a high level position like that and you’re like, I work from home two days a week.
Dr. Ilyse:
Yeah. I know.
Wendy:
The is like the best ever. It’s like, I know and for the rest of like time that’ll just be expected now that like you can have a high level position like that and still have this balance of like not being on the road all the time and
Dr. Ilyse:
Absolutely lemonade out of lemons.
Wendy:
Yes. Right. We got a little off our outline there, but let’s, okay, so let’s come back to the idea of pre-planning. Oh my goodness. I would say before, like my team and I have just now started doing an extensive amount of planning for the new year. And even though it’s a lot, because I’ve always been like a fly by the seat of my pants kind of girl and owned it. And I’ve just gotten a crazy amount of things accomplished over the last five, 10 years of my life without any planning, especially when it comes to this business. And now that I’ve started to plan really in a deep capacity with the team, I’m realizing, wow, this is powerful and holy smokes, it’s a change, it’s an investment like as far as learning how to plan and, and then execute from your plan.
So talk to us a little bit about that because I think a lot of people think to-do list the to-do list gets overwhelming, especially when it comes to the holidays. But what is your take on all that Ilyse?
Dr. Ilyse:
So I should say in general, CBT, people like me love planning. It’s the B part of CBT, the behavioral part changing behaviors. And the reason we love planning is because it’s really anxiety reducing. I always think it’s funny how we’re told when we have young kids, oh you need to get your kid on a schedule and you need to make a plan. The same is true of adults, like having a schedule and a routine and a plan can really lower anxiety. So in terms of the holidays, what I have my patients do is I have them several weeks prior to the holidays sit down. Sometimes they’ll do it with me and kind of come up with everything that needs to get done for that particular holiday. And so we’ll have a list and then I’ll say, okay, take out your calendar and let’s figure out when you’re gonna do what on this list.
And let’s be pretty specific. So like, you know, December 1st to eighth, get holiday cards together, you know, decorate house for holiday December 8th to 15th, purchase gifts. I mean whatever it is. Like I will have them really make a list of everything that needs to be done and then figure out week by week when they’re gonna do it, which is a great way to reduce overwhelm with any big task. Yeah. Like that’s how I wrote my book cuz I never looked at the book in its totality. I said, okay, well I have this much time to do it and I have this many chapters, so let me break it down. And I, I assigned myself each week, you know, a a smaller goal which enabled me to get it done. It’s the same thing for planning for a big thing like a holiday season.
What I also really stress when the, you know, my clients are, are, are planning is I’ll say, okay, you also don’t have to do all this yourself. So as we are talking through all of this, which are things that you can delegate to other people. I work with a lot of parents who are very territorial about the holidays. They wanna do everything and that’s okay. But what ultimately happens with a lot of them is they become completely overwhelmed. And when we talk it through, there are clearly things they just don’t have to be doing that partners or grandparents or, you know, other people in their lives can help them out with. And so as part of that planning ahead, I also ask them to consider which of these tasks can be, you know, allocated to somebody else.
Wendy:
So good.
Dr. Ilyse:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, I do the same thing for like planning. If, if you’re going away for the holidays and if you’re gonna be staying like at a relative’s home, say, I’ll say okay, you know, try to think through a rough kind of schedule for yourself and for your kids every day. And if your kids are old enough, have them make the schedule with you. This is not by any means supposed to be a schedule that you follow hour by hour, but it’s just to give you and your kids a shape for each day so that you know, when you’re waking up maybe in your sister or brother’s home or something, roughly what your day’s gonna look like, it can really reduce anxiety for everybody.
Wendy:
Mm. I love that. And, and it brings in this concept too of like, I’m sure, well I know it’s like a whole nother episode and I’m sure plenty of visits with you around control and also guilt. So like delegating brings up so much like of oh, like if somebody else does it, it’s not gonna be done as good as if I would do it. Which is like a whole emotional processing thing. And then the guilt of like asking for help is so deep within so many moms, which is just so fascinating, right? Because what I found over the years is that it’s really like such a connector for people. Like I know my mother-in-law, she’s single, she lives here and with us in California and it’s the best, biggest blessing ever.
But she, she has a love language of service. Like she, she loves to support and help us and yeah, there are times when I’m sure she’s like, okay, I’m done. Right. But I think it, when you have the courage to ask someone for help, when you let them know like, gosh, you know, I’m just feeling like this list is too much for me and I’m, I’m scared I won’t be able to whatever. I feel like it can bring you closer to someone and it gives them a way to help. So just kind of a antidote maybe to some of the guilt that people may be thinking if they’re like, huh, ask people for help. Right. It’s a, it’s a big one.
Dr. Ilyse:
I have a whole section about this in the book, an entire section about asking for help and how icky it can sometimes feel when you delegate and someone doesn’t do something quite as you would, it’s something you have to get used to.
Hey there, families pausing for a quick moment because I wanna check in with you and ask your question: are you on our email list and have you grabbed our most popular learning guide, How to Raise Strong-Willed Kids with Integrity? It is the educational document that gets downloaded the most here at Fresh Start Family, and I created it to help those of you who are raising strong-willed kids and pulling out your hair some days because your kids seem to say no way more than they say yes. Or maybe they push your buttons a lot or challenge boundaries and rules more than you’d like to admit. And you just need some support and some new ideas on how to work with them.
So I’m gonna teach you in this free downloadable PDF that is easy to read and I’m gonna give you some prompts, some new ways to look at them, some new ways to think about how you’re approaching them, ask you questions about if things are working, if they’re not working. And I’m gonna give you some new ideas on some strategies and some tools that you can put in place this Holiday season to make the holidays more enjoyable so you’re actually feeling like you’re connecting with these strong-willed kids. Okay? So I want you to hop on over to the website when this episode is done, freshstartfamilyonline.com/strongwilledkids, and you can grab your free copy, okay. That’ll get you started with learning. It’ll help you understand some of the strategies and the tools that we teach here at Fresh Start Family, especially when it comes to strong-willed kids.
You guys know I have such a heart for strong-willed kids. I have had the honor of raising my very own beautiful, strong-willed daughter for the last 15 years. And the tools and the strategies that I’ve learned and that I now teach thousands of families from all over the world has just made a world of difference for me as a mom, for my relationship with my daughter and for us as a family.
So again, head on over freshstartfamilyonline.com/strongwilledkids and when you grab your free learning guide, you will also be popped on to our email list so we can keep in touch with you, let you know every week when we have new podcast episodes drop or when we have new blog posts or sales on our educational programs.
All of that is just a great way to stay in the know when you are on our email list. All right, we’ll head on over and grab that after this episode is done. But for now, back to the show.
Wendy:
Yeah, exactly. I’m, I’m learning that in my business side of things for sure. But we talked a little bit about delegate and then one of the last points that we had that we were gonna chat about was this idea of like, when we’re at other people’s places and then we were gonna talk a little bit too about this concept that, or this tool maybe that you teach about, like actually allowing yourself to think of the worst case scenarios and just realizing that it’s, it’s gonna be okay. You still have the tools to move through it, but when, when, when it comes to like being at other people’s homes, whether it’s the dinners at grandma’s house or the aunts and uncles who are like, you know, who are like, for our community, it’s like we have so many families who like, you know that they’re like punishment family, they’re spanking their kids, they’re, they’re threatening them and you’re rolling up and you’re like, Hey, we’re the positive parenting family.
We’re here for dinner or we’re here to stay for three nights. Or like –
Dr. Ilyse:
Right, right. Peace of love all around.
Wendy:
I remember going to my sister-in-law’s house and this is different, but like I had weaned Terrin from nursing, I think he was like 11 months old. And I was like, I’m done, I’m done. He became the alligator nurser and I was like, I’m done. And we had successfully, or maybe it was just at night, I think maybe No, he was younger. He was younger, but I had successfully weaned him at night. Right. Which is a big deal. And then we went to sister-in-law’s house and I was like, oh crap, I have to nurse this baby in the middle of the night cuz I can’t let him cry. Like I can’t wake up the house. Yeah. And then I went back on my routine and I was like, oh my gosh, now we’re gonna have to go home and it’s gonna be this awful thing where I have to wake up in the middle of the night and I catastrophized it.
Right. I remember that happening. So talk to us a little bit about your strategies for just battling the anxiety when it comes to going to other people’s homes, getting off schedules, all that, all that good stuff. Yeah. Cause that’s a big one for people.
Dr. Ilyse:
Definitely. This is another example of expectation setting, right? Where if you’re going to someone else’s home for the holidays, particularly if you’re staying over for several days, you can’t expect that you will be able to control every aspect of your kid’s environment. And I think this is particularly an issue for people with younger kids who are concerned about things like napping and eating and bedtimes, right? And I think one of the things that I, I hear about a lot when I, you know, speak with, with patients during the holidays is that, you know, they’ll have a lot of anxiety about the kid, I mean, just like what you’re talking about Wendy, like about the kid regressing in some way because they’re going, you know, like you were like, oh no, I’m gonna have to nurse and then the kid’s gonna regress and nurse in the middle of the night again, or like, oh no, my kids sleeping is gonna be off and then they’re gonna have a sleep regression.
Or you know, even with older kids, it’s like, oh, well we’re going to my sisters and you know, she always lets her kids watch like a ton of TV and do video games. So my kids are just gonna be on screens for like 12 hours a day, seven days straight, you know, whatever it is. Yeah. And I think, you know, we, we have this expression in acceptance and commitment therapy, which is an offshoot of CBT called Dropping the Rope. How like instead of playing tug of war in a situation, like you just drop the rope, you throw your hands up to me, if you are doing a holiday at a relative’s house, you gotta drop the rope. Even in your own home you don’t have total control over things, right? So how can you possibly control what your kids are doing eating, you know, how much sugar they’re consuming, what their bedtime is, how can you possibly be expected to do that when you’re living under someone’s house rules, first of all that are not your own house rules?
And second of all, when, when you’re talking holidays, your kids are getting over gifted, over sugared, overstimulated. So between that and like not being in your actual, you know, on your actual home turf, like there is no way you can expect yourself to control everything. So don’t do that to yourself. Let yourself and your kids take a vacation. Right. And, and, you know, you brought up what is the worst case scenario that is a classic CBT question. Oftentimes we catastrophize, I love that word, many, many things and, and it turns out that the worst case scenario is something we could manage. And so that’s what I will often ask people. I’ll say like, okay, well, like what’s the worst case scenario that happens if you go to your sisters and the person will say, oh my God, well my kid will be like, you know, staying up all night and playing video games all day.
And I’ll say, okay, well how would you manage that? Yeah. And they’ll think about it, right? And they’ll say, well, I mean, I guess we’ll come home and like, we’ll go back to how things are normally. And I can kind of frame it to them as like, this is a vacation and this is okay for vacation, but not at home. And you know, and, and then, you know, actually if they’re like on screens a lot, it’ll actually give me time to really catch up with my sister or brother or whomever who I don’t really get to see that much. Right. So like, you wanna ask yourself those two questions of like, what’s the worst case scenario? Like really what’s the worst thing that’s gonna happen here and what would you do to manage it? It’s really like your problem solving ahead of time to reduce your anxiety about something.
Wendy:
Yeah, I like that. And, and our students know that they have so many tools on if the kids do have a meltdown at bedtime because they were playing violent video games or on screens all day, like thinking ahead of like, okay, well worst case scenario, what tools would I use?
Dr. Ilyse:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Wendy:
That evening to deescalate the power struggle and like handle the meltdown with integrity, right? Or if the like conversation does come up and if my kid does misbehave and my sister-in-law does joke or make fun of me or say this like passive aggressive thing about I should just take him in the backyard and spank him. Okay, what, like, what are some, what are some things that I feel good about that I can respond with? So it’s kind of like pre-planning. Well it’s so, it’s so fascinating, Ilyse, because it, it’s such a different concept than a lot of times in our communities we talk about visioning, like exactly what we want to happen and expecting it and holding that energy of like, you know, and so this is like, it’s so different but it’s so valuable.
I think, I think the visioning part is really still important with, with just you visioning like the perfect case scenario of how you want to handle yourself through the challenge, right? But so as I’m thinking through that, it’s still the, these concepts go hand in hand. Like you can still vision, some people call it manifesting some people prayers of supplication. Like, thank you God for making this dinner with my in-laws go great. Like thank you so much for having this be a time of connection versus total chaos and disconnection, but then also doing the like, and if something were to happen, a conversation were to get weird, my dad says something like super, like not okay or threatening to his grandkid, like, this is how I will handle it, this is how I will stay integrity and I have the tools to do so I’m capable.
Like it’s that, like you were saying that concept of like, all right, well what do you do? And you just think about it for a second and you’re like, right. Well I I’d handle it.
Dr. Ilyse:
Right. I mean we, what what you’re saying about the, the, you know, sort of like the envisioning is we talk about values actually in acceptance and commitment therapy also, again, offshoot of CBT and I talk about this a ton in my book, and that’s where you have the opportunity to articulate what your values are, right? In a number of different areas, including parenting. And really then you, your, the goal is to endeavor to live your life according to those values, right? And to parent according to those values. You can’t always do that, right? That, and that’s where, you know, the, all of the stuff we’ve been talking about, you know, the self-compassion and worst case scenario and all of that comes in. But absolutely, I think it goes hand in hand with, you know, really aspiring to something, right?
And, and being very clear on again, what you value, what you believe in, what you know, how you want to live your life and, and how you wanna help your kids live theirs.
Wendy:
Yes. And just making sure that you actually do fill up your toolkit with how to handle the tough situations, right? Like how to have the conversations, which I know comes from being a student of programs like ours at Fresh Start Family, like accessing beautiful services like yours to be able to actually feel like you’re capable and that you have a toolkit to pull from, so when the challenging stuff does happen that you’re able to handle it with integrity.
Dr. Ilyse:
Absolutely.
Wendy:
So good. Ilyse, this has been such a rich conversation and I know so many holidays now are going to be smoother and less anxiety written because of your tips. So thank you for being here. Will you let listeners know where they can find you, where they can get your book Mom Brain? We’ll make sure that we put it on our website too, on our shop page so it’s easy for families to find. But just tell everyone where they can find you and all your beautiful work.
Dr. Ilyse:
Sure. Thank you. And thank you so much for having me, Wendy. This has been great. So my book is available wherever books are sold on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and easy to find. My website is drcbtmom.com, so that’s like doctor like drcbtmom.com. And that’s my, drcbtmom is my handle on Instagram and, and Twitter and Facebook, and I love to hear from people. So don’t hesitate if you have any questions or you know, want clarification, feel free to get in touch with me.
Wendy:
I love it, Ilyse. And we didn’t get to talk quite about self care today, but I know that like grabbing a book like Dr. Ilyse’s or doing like, like gifting yourself a Fresh Start family program, one of our education programs or grabbing Ilyse’s book, Mom Brain, it is a way to take care of yourself, right? Definitely. So you’re, when you educate yourself, when you like it, in my opinion, it’s a way to support your own mental health. So just remember moms that gifts for yourself, especially when it like helps your whole family, right? Like when we show up with like strategies to manage and cope with our anxieties and lower them, then we also are, it’s a gift for our families.
So it is, it really is a wonderful time to grab a gift like this for yourself and just be able to like fill yourself up every night with a few chapters. So, all right, Ilyse, well listeners, go find Ilyse’s work and thank you again for being here so much.
Dr. Ilyse:
Thank you so much for having me.
Wendy:
All right, families, that is a wrap, but before we part ways for the day, I have a question for you. Do you follow me over on Instagram yet? If not, will you come find me and say hello? I’m @FreshStartWendy and I love to create a ton of free educational tips and resources for you guys on Instagram, so it’s a great place to come hang out with me, send me a DM after you follow my account and just say hello. I really think it’s a great way to get to know so many of you and we can chat a little bit in the DMs. I’m even, I’m known to send some voice memos here and there when you guys have questions or are just letting me know how our work has helped you and your family.
So I would love to connect with you over there. And as always, we welcome shares. If you have been really enjoying this episode or any of the Fresh, Start Family Show episodes that you’ve been listening to lately, go ahead and just screenshot right now on your phone and head over to Instagram and just share to your stories, letting your friends and family know how much you are really enjoying our podcast. And it just really helps us out when you do that. And again, it gives us a way to connect over on that platform. So I can get to know you and your family a little bit, so head on over, share on Instagram inside your stories, making sure that you’re posting me or that you are tagging me, I should say, @FreshStartWendy.
And I really look forward to connecting with you guys over there. All right, well as always, thanks for listening, you guys. I am so grateful to each and every one of you who supports our shows and who cares so deeply about your families. I’ll see you in the next episode.
For links and more info about everything we talked about in today’s episode, head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/149.
Stella:
For more information, go to freshstartfamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening, families, have a great day.
