On this episode of The Fresh Start Family Show, Wendy is joined by Dr. Kelly Vincent, Psy.D. – a holistic clinical psychologist, owner of the Nourished Wellness Group in Encinitas, CA, and author of the True You: A Self-Discovery Journal.
Wendy and Dr. Kelly dig into the topic of high functioning anxiety and how it is affecting so many of us. Tune in to hear how many parents identify HFA with the feeling of burn out, being at your wit’s end, treading water on the inside, often while still presenting as calm and collected on the outside.
Dr. Kelly covers 5 key ways in which we can heal from High Functioning Anxiety & why the journey is a sacred one every parent should embark on if they feel like they have anxious tendencies.
Special Thanks to Tonies for their continued support of the Fresh Start Family Show!
🛠 Want to Build up Your Compassionate Discipline Toolkit?! 🛠
This bundle comes with an FREE extensive learning guide AND workshop with me, where I’ll teach you ways to build a strong, compassionate, FIRM & effective discipline toolkit that works with kids of ALL ages!
Inside this free learning bundle, I’ll teach you how to escape a punishment mindset, including:
*Methods to build intrinsic self-control muscles
*Strategies that unite you
*The importance of self-calming
*Natural Consequences
*Logical Consequences
*Creative Problem Solving Methods
Click HERE to grab your free bundle now & start learning today!
Episode Highlights:
- What high functioning anxiety is and how it differs from generalized anxiety
- High functioning anxiety can be something that was learned / taught / modeled
- Unhealthy coping can be present (drinking, smoking, scrolling social, etc)
- Getting to the root of why we are using this way of functioning is useful to make changes
- The goal isn’t to be healed – we are in the process of healing all the time.
Resources Mentioned:
Where to Find Dr. Kelly:
www.nourishedwellnessgroup.com
Grab Your Copy of her journal True You: A Self-Discovery Journal
FSF Show Ep. 55. Releasing Trauma & Anxiety with Chrissy Powers
Not able to listen or want to read along with us?
Here is the episode transcript!
This episode has been brought to you by the Fresh Start, family Live Fast Track Discipline Workshop happening on Saturday, September 30th from eight to 10:30 AM Pacific. I’ll be teaching you all about how to build out a firm and kind discipline toolkit that includes self calming strategies, natural consequences, and logical consequences that work with kids of all ages. Learn more and save your seat at freshstartfamilyonline.com/workshop.
Wendy:
Well, hello listeners. I’m so happy you are back for a new episode. I’m your host, Wendy Snyder positive parenting educator and family life coach. And today on the show I have Dr. Kelly Vincent, who is going to be chatting about with us today about how we can heal from high functioning anxiety.
So let me tell you a bit more about who Dr. Kelly is and what she does. Dr. Kelly Vincent is a licensed clinical psychologist and owner of Nourished Wellness Group, a holistic group practice in Encinitas, California. That’s where I live. She’s the author of True You: A Self Discovery Journal, which allows space to activate the deeper layers of the self. She specializes in helping women navigate trauma, anxiety, depression, self-esteem, and relationship struggles. Her area of passion is incorporating a mind body approach to treatment such as EMDR, yoga therapy, walk talk therapy, breath work, meditation, body and somatic work and incorporation of holistic community providers.
So Dr. Kelly just has a beautiful practice in our town, which has actually just been a great resource for our family. We’ve used Dr. Kelly and her services for, you know, just things that we needed help with over the years. And also my dear friend Chrissy Powers, who is a licensed marriage family therapist, works out of Dr. Kelly’s office too. She’s been on our show before too, where we talked about what trauma is and how we can heal from past traumas. And it was just a really good episode. I’ll make sure I put that in the show notes in case you wanna check that out. But I had fun talking with Dr Kelly today about what high functioning anxiety is.
And every year that goes by I just learn more and more about myself and my family and when I start to look a little bit deeper at some of my tendencies, because remember, everyone’s struggling with something, right? And again, as I’ve got older, I’ve realized that we all struggle with lots of things that’s just part of life, right? And you have seasons where you might feel really good and feel like you’re thriving in other seasons where you might just feel like you’re treading water a little bit and need that extra layer of support. But I definitely am realizing now that anxiety could be something that has been present in my family for quite some time. But like it happens so many times, was never talked about, was never talked about, and even joked about, like I’ve had, I’ve heard my dad say many, many times, like he almost will poke fun at my not even like, I don’t know if I’d say that.
I’d say he almost like he just in a kind of a demeaning way will will say like how snappy or jumpy or like short fused my mom is or will say like how he’s just uses terms. That is definitely not like, Hey, I think your mom struggles with anxiety a little bit. I think she gets anxious. So just be aware of that. Like it’s definitely always been said in a way where, you know, it’s like, it just feels like it’s like more of a demeaning thing of like, yeah, your mom’s just super snappy and anxious and you know, that’s a problem. Versus like, hey, this is something that she struggles with and we’re looking to get her support. So it’s always been framed up in that way. And now that I understand high functioning anxiety a little bit more and generalized anxiety disorder a little bit more, I can just see those tendencies in my mom and, and also my dad.
And so obviously growing up in a home for 18 years and having, you know, been part of that family dynamic for so long. And then also just being that, you know, my parents are my blood, of course I’m realizing that I’m pretty sure I was gifted some anxious tendencies. So now the beauty of being in the line of work that I am and being together with other families like yourselves, I really consider all of our community of listeners extended family, right? All of my frustrated experience families that I have the honor of serving and supporting on a day-to-day basis. And all of you who are loyal listeners, you’re like extended family. And together we are a community of families and people who are not ashamed to help ourselves to get the layers of support that we need.
And it just feels so good to operate as a human being, like that, right? To not hide things and just be able to raise your hand and say, oh, I’d like some extra support here or, or, I’d like to navigate a little bit more what that looks like. What is, what are some anxious tendencies that have a tendency to show up for me and inhibit me from living life peacefully and joyfully like I want to? Right? And speaking of layering support systems, I would say I have so many clients that are inside of our Fresh Start Experience program. Some of us, some of them who have been with us for years now because they just, once they get into our community and have the level of support that we offer inside of the program when it comes to coaching and of course all the parenting stuff.
But we also of course have that family life coach side of our work that just really helps parents go deeper into like what, you know, are the cause of some of the challenges happening in homes. But so many of our students layer support with the fresh start experience support. So not only do they have a parenting coach, which is just so wise, right? Like why wouldn’t we have a coach when it comes to parenting? It’s the most important job on the planet in my opinion. I actually just filmed a real few weeks ago about just the kind of the absurdity that, you know, so many industries are teed up that by getting a mentor, a coach is like wise practice, right?
When you look at like sports, professional sports, of course you have a coach and mentor and multiple levels of coaches and mentors, right? If you wanna be the best athlete you can be when it comes to business growth and development and making organizations and companies thrive, of course it is absolutely commended and encouraged to have strong mentors and leaders and coaches, right? Business coaches, athletic coaches. And it’s never bulked upon. But for some reason in the parenting world, culture has kind of feted this fetus narrative that it’s, it’s silly. Like we don’t really, we shouldn’t really need support.
I mean, this should be like basic work. You’re, you’re raising a human, don’t you know how to do that? And it’s like, no, we don’t know how to do it. This is really tough. Especially those of us who have been handed these beautiful strong-willed kids, I should say, been blessed with these beautiful, strong kids. And most of us are healing from a lot of things that we grew up with. Our parents said that the best that they could, but there was a lot of jacked up stuff that was done in ba past decades that we are now healing from in our thirties and forties, right? So there’s just a lot there. So it’s just kind of silly that sometimes, you know, it’s not, it’s just not the same when it comes to the parenting industry. And I am actively working on changing that.
And every single one of you who decides to invest in a program or a coach, whether it’s with fresh the Fresh Start Experience or somebody else, know that you are also helping to change that narrative in the world that it is smart wise, it’s a wise move to invest in yourself, invest in your family. Because again, coaches and mentors are smart when it is something that really matters. And parenting just like business, just like athletics is something that really matters. But back to stacking the support. So it’s really wise if you have a parenting coach. And on top of that, it makes total sense if you have a therapist, right? If your child has a therapist, if your child has a play therapist, like stacking the services of therapy with your parenting coach with some people even have like a, you know, a mentor or a counselor at church that they will stack with their therapist and their parenting coaching services, right?
So stacking of services I think is really wise if you have the resources and you’re able to do that because that really is a fast forward track to helping you Heal from some of the things that may be keeping you stuck in patterns of anxiety or reactivity, whatever it may be. But with all that said, this conversation with Dr Kelly Vincent Vincent is really beautiful. You’re gonna learn so much about what she describes as high functioning anxiety, and maybe like me, you’ll be able to relate a ton and just find a lot of hope in the solutions she sets forward on how to Heal from high functioning anxiety. So make sure you go give Dr. Kelly some love.
Her Instagram page is just absolutely beautiful what she builds out over there. She’s at Doc Dr. Period, Kelly Vincent, and we’ll make sure we put that in the show notes too. But she just really creates beautiful, easy to digest content that gives you some great education about all things in the therapy world and just beautiful little doses that are very easy to understand. So without further ado, you guys, thanks so much for listening. Let’s enjoy this episode with Dr Kelly Vincent.
Stella:
Well, hey there, I’m Stella. Welcome to my mom and dad’s podcast, the Fresh Start Family Show.
We’re so happy you’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean, Jesus, and rock and roll, and believe deeply in the true power of love and kindness. Together we hope to inspire you to Expand your heart, learn new tools, and strengthen your family. Enjoy the show
Wendy:
Well, hello there families and welcome to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family Show. I am here with Dr Kelly Vincent And. we are going to be chatting today about five Ways We Can Heal From High Functioning Anxiety, welcome to the show, Dr. Kelly.
Dr. Kelly:
Thank you. Thank you for having me. One of my favorite topics.
Wendy:
Yay. I know you love talking about this. And when I first found your work and started to take a deep dive into what high Functioning anxiety is, I was like, oh dang,
Dr. Kelly:
Does it hit a little home or get close to home? It’s a little close to home.
Wendy:
Yeah. And now that I’m in my mid forties, I’ve definitely started to like explore this more and think to myself, huh, this would probably serve me well. I mean, I’ve been deep in life coaching and healing work and all the things for the last decade, but I’ve never really looked at it from this angle. And so this is just really fascinating and I definitely have some things that that resonate.
So would you pick us off with, just first, before we even get into our subject matter Kelly, would you mind telling us a little bit about your story? How did you become, you know, a doctor of this work and all the things, like how did you get into this?
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah, that’s a big question. We, I don’t know how much time we have for that, but I’ll try to summarize it. So yes, so I’m a clinical psychologist based here in Encinitas. Most of the owner of a holistic group practice called Nourish Wellness Group. I predominantly work, and this wasn’t necessarily intentional But, it just turns out this way. Predominantly work with women who are struggling with high Functioning anxiety, imposter syndrome, and also a lot of trauma, depression, and just kind of generalized anxiety.
I did not start out in this profession. I actually was in marketing. So my undergrad was in business marketing, and then I went straight into advertising for big kind of like movie studio, things like that, up in la. Then I moved into digital marketing and kind of did that for five, six years. And then I had what I call a quarter life crisis and just felt like I wasn’t in the right place. I didn’t feel aligned with what I, what I wanted for myself. And So I did a 180 and went back to grad school and not back to grad school. I’d never been to grad school, but I went to grad school and decided to become a psychologist with no experience and hadn’t even been in therapy before.
And it just was this weird pull to, to do this work. And thank goodness, you know, now how many years later it’s turned out to be the best decision, one of the best decisions I’ve ever made, But, it was definitely a windy, windy road to get here. So yeah, I love, I love this work and I love, you know, the idea of healing and self-growth and awareness and, and all the things.
Wendy:
Yes. And was there, was there something that happened in your own life that caused you to take, you know, go from like the business side of things, which by the way, my undergrad is marketing too, so hey o marketing. Yes. Which I can see it helps you present your beautiful business to the world because holy smokes, is your Instagram gorgeous and so wonderful at relaying this, the wonderful services you provide?
But what happened like that all of a sudden you were like, I’m gonna shift into psychology ’cause that is quite a bit different. Was there anything or
Dr. Kelly:
No, but yeah, it’s very, very different. Well, actually, you know what, there, there are some similarities to marketing and, and psychology. Honestly, at the time there wasn’t any sort of like cognitive, cognitive awareness of what I was doing. It was more like this pull and intuition later now that I’ve kind of done a lot of values work, understood, you know, who I am as a human. It was a, it was a, a loss of kind of like a profound fulfillment that I noticed. And I have my own history of like, oh yeah, you know, all of my history of as to, as it relates to kind of what fulfills me and happiness and things like that.
So I had that kind of in the mix too of like, oh, I just, this doesn’t feel right. I don’t like this. I’m bored, I’m this, I’m that. It was a lot of discomfort in what I was doing on, on a day-to-day basis. And with psychology, I mean, I loved chatting with people. I love, I was the, the girl that was on the phone for hours with friends, right? Like talking through every problem every which way. Like I love to understand human behavior even before I understood that I like to understand human behavior. So it was a pull and a gravitation I think towards, you know, just my natural like interest. So no, there wasn’t like a single thing that had happened, it was just sort of this, I am dissatisfied with what I’m doing and I think that is what I wanna do.
So it was a massive leap of faith. I had no idea if I was gonna like it or not, and then thank goodness I do. So yeah, it was definitely an evolution. It was a lot of identity, like break breaking down identity and kind of building it back up into a way that’s like a little bit more authentic over, over all these years, not just then. So yeah.
Wendy:
Wow. I love that statement. The absence of profound fulfillment. Like I would, I can, so like, you know, those of us who do this kind of work, like where we’re helping others in this capacity, it is such profound fulfillment, like parent days and you’re like, this is intense or hard work or entrepreneurship, right?
All of it. And then every night you go to bed and you lay your head on your pillow and you’re like, holy smokes, I am profoundly fulfilled. And So, I could imagine how beautiful that was to just start listening to yourself that like, there was a different, so yeah, and I was listening to myself before I knew I was listening to myself, right? Like now I can back and be like, oh, like I was following my intuition. Like versus at the time I was just so fearful to be stuck into a career that I hated that that fear was what catapulted me to do something about it. But then looking back, it’s like, yeah, it’s probably a combination of both, but yeah, totally. That’s so cool. I love to hear people’s stories, so thank you for sharing. Awesome.
And now how old are your kiddos? Tell the audience, ’cause you’re a sweet mama too, right?
Dr. Kelly:
Yes. Yeah. So I have a four year old boy and a 19 month old boy.
Wendy:
Aw boy mama.
Dr. Kelly:
Yes. Awesome. Wild, wild and crazy.
Wendy:
Oh, I love it. And I have to ask, ’cause I specialize in strong-willed kids. Do you feel like any of ’em got the strong-willed gene?
Dr. Kelly:
My first is very spirited.
Wendy:
Yes. Nice. Woo. We need more strong-willed kids in the world.
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah, he, he, he could maybe, yeah, yeah, for now he could, he could tone it back a bit for now. But yeah, no, in the future it’ll be an amazing quality when they’re toddlers and preschoolers.
Wendy:
It is so inconvenient. And, and then like you get in the groove of, you know, learning how to work with them.
And then now mine is almost a teenage, mine is a teenager.
Dr. Kelly:
Wow.
Wendy:
Two teenagers now. My strong-willed one is almost 16. And it’s just a joy. It’s just a joy. So don’t you worry, it works right?
Dr. Kelly:
You give me hope.
Wendy:
Awesome. Okay, well with all that, let’s hop in to our subject matter, which is this idea of high functioning anxiety. Kick us off Kelly with what is the difference between like what is high functioning anxiety and maybe tell us a little bit of a difference between I think what you would refer to as generalized anxiety versus like high functioning anxiety.
Dr. Kelly:
Yes, yes. And this is good. This is what I would start with regardless, because we have to note that high functioning anxiety is not like a clinical diagnosis. It’s not a whole thing of, of any sorts.
It’s more a description of how you may experience anxiety. So generalized anxiety is a formal diagnosis that is found in the DSM five, which is what therapists use to diagnose and whatnot. And essentially is more of a collection of very specific criteria that one has to meet in order to be diagnosed with that particular struggle. And generalized is more an experience of having a lot of excessive worry about a lot of different things, right? Like the generalized anxiety, which is why it’s named that a lot of physical manifestations, a lot of cognitive type of fan manifestations like thought spirals and you know, things like, but there’s very, very specific criteria you have to meet. High Functioning anxiety, I feel like is a term that has gotten really popularized, probably more kind of based on Instagram and things like that, that just sort of helps people who don’t fit in generalized anxiety to then kind of resonate with what it is that they’re experiencing.
So they’re experiencing anxiety or they experience anxiety, but not to the levels or the clinical levels that you would to have a diagnosis of like generalized or panic disorder or social anxiety or whatever it may be. And it’s essentially an experience of anxiety where you’re Functioning and people see that you’re Functioning actually people see that you’re like thriving on the outside, you look like you’re doing great, you’re on top of things, you’re organized, you’re, you’re all the things, but internally you’re really struggling with maybe physical manifestations of anxiety. Like, you know, that that like heaviness in your chest constantly or your heart’s feeding or you can’t, you can’t seem to kind of settle, you just, it’s this like energy that’s like pulsating through your body and maybe you have a lot of like anxiety around your abilities and doubt, right?
So the actual way that high functioning anxiety may present for somebody is different based on the person and based on their history But it, it’s more of an experience where you’re still tending to normal life stuff and you’re doing it well, but like internally it doesn’t feel that way. It feels like you’re just keeping up. And So I think a lot of people do resonate with it because they’re like, okay, well I don’t feel like, ’cause a big differentiator with DSM Diagnosises is that it has to be impairing your Functioning, right? That one of the main criteria of any diagnosis is that it’s, it’s impairing your ability to function. And so with high functioning anxiety, it’s not impairing you, it’s actually like catapulting you, it’s, it’s the reason you’re, you’re doing so much but you don’t really classify as that. And then you’re like, well, but I don’t, I don’t feel great.
Or I feel disconnected, or I feel this or that, or whatever. And so a lot of people are like, oh my gosh, I think that’s me, right? Like, I think that that really sort of encapsulates my experience because it’s not really encapsulated by the normal, you know, book of psychology, if you will. So, yes.
Wendy:
Yeah. Some of the terms I’ll hear from, you know, moms that I work with is like burnout at wit’s end. Like I just feel so like, and I’ll add words like strung out or like often I’ll have thoughts of like, I just feel like I’m treading water.
Dr. Kelly:
Yes. And it is so interesting to like look at the presentation, right? So like the presentation is so like I feel like, I don’t know if, I think it’s probably a worldly thing, But, it sure seems like a massive American thing to get really good at, like presenting that we’re okay.
Wendy:
Yeah. And it reminds me of, and just looking at like my own journey, right? Like being someone that presents on the outside is, you know, as an entrepreneur, like we’re having a big team now having this beautiful life-giving organization and achieving in air quotes so much. But then on the inside I’m realizing that I often run with like a lot of these descriptions and thank God for the work that I’ve been able to get knee deep in and to experience and now teach myself. That’s helped me feel so much better. And it’s still just present. Like, it’s still just present. Which is interesting ’cause it reminds me of when we, Terry and I were younger And, we Stella’s almost 16 now, but when she was a baby, both, both of our kids had colic, which is like crazy.
I don’t meet many people who have two kids with colic, but the first four months of their life they’re just screamed and screamed and screamed and then you’d meet like a normal baby. Even to this day, like I went to a shower in Arizona and I held my little cousin’s baby all weekend ’cause she was hosting and this baby just was so relaxed. It like you’d put, you sit it down and it just sat there and looked at you or like you’d change its diaper or you’d hold it and it, and it just was, it just was present. It just wasn’t, it wasn’t miserable inside. And so it reminds me of that a little bit. Like you get used to this feeling, but then once you’re with somebody where you can tell they’re, they don’t have a lot of this going on, I, I feel like we almost normalize this as like the way in America, oh it’s so especially for moms, but then you realize like, oh actually not everyone is functioning like this.
Dr. Kelly:
Totally. I think it is so normalized and I think the whole hustle culture or right, like, you know, this incessant need to like do more bigger, you know, all that stuff. It, it just feeds into it. Plus our own history and our own belief systems that we were conditioned with and all those things. But another like big key point about all of this is that what we’re really talking about essentially is a dysregulated nervous system, right? So it’s this nervous system that is in these stuck states. And, we can go into that in more detail if that’s helpful. But like essentially we’re kind of stuck on in a way with high functioning anxiety and it’s our kind of inability to regulate and drop into what they would call that window of tolerance. Our ability for our nervous system to be flexible and more resilient to some of these stressors.
We just more just kind of like hit these stressors like with all force and all power, which yes gets, gets stuff done and we’re successful, but to, you know, what degree or or to what sacrifice of our physical body or our mental, right? So usually when I work with clients, that’s what we’re really talking about is the, the nervous system piece and then trying to understand the dysregulation at its core and at its roots and then working to kind of build a more kind of realistic narrative of how you got here and then what can we do about it, right? So there’s different phases in the process, but yeah, it’s, it’s really more about that.
Pausing this event to invite you to a very special live event that I am hosting on Saturday, September 30th from 8:00 AM to 10:30 AM Pacific.
And that is our very first fast track discipline Workshop, where I’m going to be teaching open-hearted, amazing parents like you. My fastest way to build out a firm and kind discipline toolkit that includes self calming strategies, natural consequences and logical consequences that work with kids of all ages. This two and a half hour event will include step-by-step guidance on our signature fresh start family discipline framework that gives you detailed support in four key areas. Number one, how to use self calming as your number one go-to tool to teach kids how to self-regulate when they’re steaming bad, not happy with the limit being enforced or so upset with their sibling that they feel like they could just punch ’em in the face.
Number two, the secret to using natural consequences to let life do the teaching, which is always the best way to teach kids, especially strong-willed ones when applicable. Number three, designing logical consequences that harness the power of the four Rs to make sure discipline is related, reasonable, respectful, and teaches responsibility, resulting in deeply effective life lessons and the development of skills that misbehavior exposes are missing. And number four, how to teach in a calm time versus heated moments to get the best bang for your buck when disciplining with compassion and firm kindness.
This Workshop is $19 and I’ll be doing an extensive live q and a at the end of the event. Plus everyone who registers will get the replay to keep for life. Yes, life in addition, those who attend live will get to be part of the giveaway I’ll do at the end of class. And there’ll be special bonuses for those who are at class. So this really is a no-brainer, heck yes. Kind of event because the value is going to be off the charts exceptional. Alright, head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/workshop to learn more. Or if it’s easier for you to hop on over to Instagram, find me, I’m @freshstartwendy and shoot me a DM with the word Workshop. I’ll personally message you a link to learn more and register. I’ll see you there.
Wendy:
Yeah, I love that. Like that because it is a sacrifice of the mental and physical body, right? And then as soon as you’re, you start feeling this like yuckiness, right? Like then it it for my listeners, it definitely shows up in your parenting when you’re not feeling good, when you’re not sleeping good. Some of the descrip, like some of the description for high functioning anxiety, you had on one of your a million amazing Instagram posts that like talk about this in such a helpful, easy to understand way. But you said, you know, it’s high levels of stress, worry, people pleasing, overdoing, ruminating, sometimes insomnia, a lot of fatigue, irritability, trouble relaxing, need for validation, which is interesting ’cause I think I see it in a lot of my mama’s that I work with, her parents. It’s like so much negative self-talk.
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah.
Wendy:
Which then creates like an outside need for validation. Like, oh, you’re doing a a great job. While inside you’re just like, oh my gosh, like I’m the worst at A, B, C, D and E. If only I were better racing mind and thoughts avoidance of stillness, which I can’t wait to talk to you more about because that’s just such a, oh my goodness, it’s our surroundings is like, feels like it’s making that become harder and harder always on the go. Maladaptive, self-soothing, which I wanna hear more about that word flooded with big emotions, feeling like you’re not enough and overwhelmed. That’s a big list.
Dr. Kelly:
Totally. So, and note two with this list that like of course everybody is different and again, depending on their own history, their own experiences, maybe past traumas, things like that, some of those things may be coming in for different reasons, right?
The high function society is really like this, this anxious predisposition that then kind of creates these different manifestations in different ways. Doesn’t mean you have to hit all of those things on that list, but that tends to be what has kind of, you know, developed or tends to, at least in my clinical experience, what kind of the symptom profile starts to look like in a way. But there could be other things too, right? Like people pleasing could be more tied to what they would call a fawn response with, you know, nervous system. And a fa response is more of like a character adaptation of a stress response. Meaning like, people pleasing was just a safe thing to do in your family system. And so you learn if I please then I will be loved, I will be taking care of this and that.
So some, yeah, some of it can be tied to attachment and all kinds of things, but nonetheless those are some things to just pay attention to if you are noticing to kind of start to explore further.
Wendy:
That’s so interesting to hear that. Did I hear you say oftentimes there’s there’s already a little bit of an angst, anxious predisposition.
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah, there can be. Yeah. I would say the most, and this is based on my own like clinical experience. So we’re not talking about like any research or whatnot, just my clinical experience. But yes, I would definitely say there is a bit of a history with anxiety in some way or some form that then kind of manifests into more of this like high functioning anxiety presentation. Like the anxiety probably most likely was present throughout their life at some point or learned or modeled or something.
Because it’s almost a way of being like high functioning anxiety. I see it more as a way of being in a way of moving through the world versus like a, like a specific thing you’re dealing with. It’s almost like a, like a, like a personality presentation too, as a way to think of it.
Wendy:
Yeah. And it, and that’s so interesting that it can be learned or taught or modeled to, which is just so fascinating. ’cause I definitely look now that I’m like looking at all this and I look at my mom and dad and I’m like, huh, I wonder if there was something there that they never were able to get support with. So they just, oh, like operated through it. But now I’m like, oh my gosh, I think my mom probably has anxiety. But that was never, ever talked about or a thing in our family.
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah. And generationally, right? We, I think there’s, and again this is not all, but I would say it’s safe to say that a lot of the older generation, like our parents’ generation, I mean mental health was really not talked about and then their parent generation really not talked about, right? So there’s this element of a lot of those underlining roots and traumas or things that they’ve experienced that have never been dealt with, which then kind of, you know, manifests in different ways and present day behavior. So yeah, I feel like with therapy and things like that, like getting to the core, getting to the root is, is the real work. Getting to the attachment patterns and styles, getting to what those traumas might be and those kinds of things then help you understand what is up here.
Like why this high Functioning anxiety exists. ’cause you’re usually, again, in my clinical experience, there’s a root or
Wendy:
Yes, same with parenting, right? Like I’m always, for my students, I’m always trying to help them find the root cause. Like if we can get to the root, then we can prevent that misbehavior in the future. We can make things more peaceful in homes. But the root is where the magic is. And then that word maladaptive. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about that. ’cause like self soothing, like for example, my mom became like a smoker. She smoked like her whole life. And I’ve heard that like smoking can soothes someone’s soul. Like for me, I started – Terry and I, my husband and I have been together for 26 years now.
But we both like started, you know, back in Maryland where we grew up, it was like you became a teenager, you just started going to keg parties on the weekend and like you just started drinking. But then, like, I look back now and I finally gave up alcohol this year ’cause I was like, I’m freaking using this. Yeah. As, as a clear self-soothe every day of my life. And I’m like, yeah, I gotta get away from it. But is that, are those examples of where people are
Dr. Kelly:
Yes. Perfect examples. Exactly. And I think within the maladaptive of this is more like a clinical term versus like adaptive, right? Healthy versus non healthy. Ah. And yes, substances scrolling on social media, binge watching tv, right? Eating right. There could be a lot of kind of malad. Not eating is maladaptive, but Right. I know what you mean. Yeah. Okay.
Just wanna be clear. But yeah, substances can be one of those things that’s really hard because it’s very normalized. It’s very normalized to have a drink wine. Especially I think in motherhood, this idea of like, grab your glass of wine at the end of a long day, but what you’re really soothing is your exhaustion. You’re soothing, maybe your worry about your child because something isn’t going right in, you know, the development or Right. You’re using that as a way to decompress. But in reality, let’s all be real. I’ve never met anyone that has truly thrived and nourished themselves off of alcohol. We know that it, it is just like decompressing our mind and our bodies like intensely. But that’s a whole other conversation. Yeah. But nonetheless it’s, it’s a little bit more tangible. It’s more tangible than going and sitting doing a meditation or going and doing some yoga.
Right? It’s way more like instant gratification, like smoking or things like that. And so it’s just become, I mean it’s, it’s across all cultures and, and, and societies. But yeah, that’s kind of what I mean by self-soothing is we all tend to develop our own self-soothing kind of toolkit even when we’re really young. Right? Yeah. And so self-soothing, even like people pleasing, that could be a way to soothe, right? Like, if I just please this person, then I’ll feel okay and I’ll feel safe. Like that’s just right. And it was adaptive at one time, right? These, these coping mechanisms are adaptive. Even the alcohol, it can be adaptive. Say you’re really struggling and you just need some sort of reprieve utilizing the alcohol to help soothe that might’ve been adapted in that moment just to get through.
But then later we have to kind of look back and be like, are these serving me now? Like, are is this helpful now? So yeah. You think it’s not?
Wendy:
Yeah. And like the, and And, we’re gonna talk about it And. we we’re just gonna go all the way, we’re just kicking ponging around. That’s okay. But like the idea now that there’s been this new like that, the whole idea of scrolling, right? Like, that’s so fascinating. I caught myself, I was like, dang, I’m like, was really like, inspired by myself. ’cause it was probably like two a month ago Stella, and I had had like a disagreement argument of some sort. And it was like a day where I was like, Ugh, I feel like I kind of blew it. Yeah. It’s funny ’cause I think I, we might’ve been near in your office or something around this time. It’s hilarious that this is the example that I thought of.
Yeah. But that night I was, I was like, darn the conversation went south and I was stressed and I was actually in tears about it and I went to pick up my phone. ’cause it was like I could feel the draw. If I would’ve just started scrolling Instagram, it would’ve completely numbed me out. Like I would’ve been taken outta my emotions fast. And I was able to stop myself and be like, Wendy, don’t do that. Put it down and just be, just be in it right now. Like, let’s just, and I sat there looking out the window crying. I had my door locked finally, I let my husband in like 20 minutes later and he’s the sweetest and came in and rubbed my feet and I was able to talk. But like, I just sat there and worked through my emotions as I was looking out the window. And so there was a tree, there was nature, there was even birds.
And like, it was just an example where I was like, look at me how far I’ve come.
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah. I mean that is the exact example of maladaptive versus adaptive. Right? Right. And that’s sometimes not always easy to do. It’s a skill that we tend to not get taught, right. Of how to then kind of be with our emotions. Right. Just feel them. Yeah. And then work your way to become more present and more, you know, so Yeah, exactly.
Wendy:
Yeah. So cool. This morning my podcast interview this morning was with a mama and her little boy, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen this But. it is this little boy named Aldi. And she like captured it one night when they were talking about his emotions. And she was just so clearly a family who is teaching emotional literacy from like day one.
They had this intention that they just wanted to do it differently with their kids, but he just speaks to like how that day was a rough day for him. He’s four. How that day was a rough day for him. And he had experienced all these emotions and he had made some choices that weren’t so smart, but now he realizes he was just feeling upset. And mama gets upset, daddy gets upset, baby. And it was just, it’s the most beautiful example of like, and gives me hope that this is how we’ve set culture up for, for the past few hundred years. But now so many of us are learning that we can do it different with our kids kids. So they’re being raised in a situation where they’re gonna have these skillset and they don’t have to learn it in their fricking forties. you know, that they’re
Dr. Kelly:
That’s so true. It’s so true. Right? Yeah. Like, and I do think all the gentle parenting and what I call emotionally focused parenting, it’s, yeah, it’s helping so much because people are actually getting the foundational skillset that they need to be able to manage stressors, which is what you deal with all throughout your life, right?
Wendy:
Yeah. And this, the earlier you start, the better, but it’s never too late like that. Okay. So we’ve talked about how this can, you know, high function anxiety, what it looks like, how it, but on the outside it often can present as someone just being very organized, calm, maybe detail oriented, helpful, energetic, productive, successful, high achieving, proactive. Like, so obviously this shows up so much in the mom space with moms doing a million things and somehow keeping all the balls in the air, the presentation on the outside, right?
And then we know on the inside there’s just a lot of ache and, and just kind of not thriving happening. And then I found it interesting too before we get into these points Dr. Kelly about how do we heal from this? I found it interesting to like really do look at the physical stuff sometimes. So like I am someone who has always rolled with, with headaches and like, so in my early twenties they did all the cat scans you could imagine at UCSD and they were always like, you’re fine. But it’s just so fascinating. Looking back, no one ever Yeah. Was like, do you wanna do it? You should try some therapy. You’re so emotional regulation work. And now I’m like, that is hilarious. I mean so much insurance money.
And these doctors was spent on these huge MRI machines appointment after appointment. But, and even when I had like shoulder pain after surgery is like really persistent pain. No, no one ever mentions it. But the thing that actually healed my shoulder and when I feel the best is when I have an emotional release. Like when I have some type of emotional healing. So we have a lot of work to do, right? To integrate the body and the mind. But I, I did find it interesting, your list that just shows you, like, sometimes it can show up in your body in addition to all these presentations like sore jaw and teeth, maybe a tense neck, maybe you have shallow breath. That is something I’ve struggled with over the years and I’ll have seasons where I’m like, this is so weird.
I can’t take a deep breath.
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah.
Wendy:
I have to like yawn consistently.
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah.
Wendy:
I’m like, what the hell is this? And now I’m realizing this is related to like a mild anxiety or can be, can be, you’re right. Totally, totally tense shoulders. That’s something I’ve always struggled with. And just, just tightness and chest. Like bit more sore fingers, right? Like when you’re just chewing on your fingernails so much. Yeah. Headaches.
Dr. Kelly:
Think about it too. It’s like, again, going back to the nervous system piece are when we are in that anxiety state, right, where there’s fear, there’s worry, right? That is activating the sympathetic part of our nervous system that fight flight. If you think about the body posture in a fight flight response, it tends to be clenching, bracing, protecting.
And people can’t really see me right now, but I’m bringing my shoulders up to my ears and I’m kind of like cowering in, right? ’cause like, it’s a, it’s a protective measure. And this is back to the key people days where we needed this, these, you know, response patterns so that we could survive within what, you know, our world looked like. Then modern world, fast forward to now it’s, it’s, it’s not the same, but the body still responds the same. So a lot of that muscle tension and a lot of that like holding in our physical body makes so much sense because that is what our nervous system is, is prone to do. Plus we’re just, it’s like this physical tension of of of that strong feeling that’s pulsating through our body. So like the body release or the somatic release they call it is just as important as the cognitive because you have to kind of like get it out, right?
Externalize it, just like you externalize your feelings, things like that.
Wendy:
Oh, so beautiful. And co cognitive versus somatic. So when I think of somatic, like I did Chrissy’s non-linear movement stuff and that was so interesting. But that’s a somatic thing, right? So we have an episode if listeners, in case you wanna hear us talk about somatic linear or linear movement with our friend Chrissy Powers, which is one of Kelly’s beautiful psychologists that you have in the office, or therapist I should say. But, and then so somatic, can you just tell us the difference between somatic ways to heal and cognitive? Yeah. So cognitive is like talk probably, right?
Dr. Kelly:
Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So some just think body-based, right? Okay. Anything body based.
So like, that’s why they say yoga can be really healing, which it, it really can be, right? Because you’re dropping into your body, you’re dropping into your felt sense, right? Acupuncture, acupuncture releases somatic tension and, and does all kinds of beautiful things. Energy healing, right? Like anything that’s working with the body and helping it move through and processed and release emotion would be a mu somatic modality. There’s things like within the therapy world, like somatic experiencing, which again, you’re just zoning in on the somatic experience of whatever cognitively you’re, you’re speaking about. And then cognitively and processing it that way. You, that would be like building insight around where the anxiety started and could tell you and what the modeling was like for you as a child.
Did, how did your parents respond to you when you were anxious? Were you able to identify that you were anxious? Right? Like building a lot of the insight into what it is that you’re, you’re navigating.
Wendy:
I see. Ah, so helpful. Yeah. Okay. I get it. All right. I’m learning so much already. Okay. Okay. Well let’s start off with some of these. It’s with number one of these five points that you’ve created on like, okay, well, you know, there’s a lot of people shaking their heads right now that are like, okay, this is definitely something that resonates with me. Pretty sure I’m operating out of a high functioning anxiety state often. Yeah. So number one, you have Kelly the idea of redefining meaning.
Tell us a little bit about that as far as like many of us have associated like productivity, success, and worth with like, being valuable. So tell us all about, all about this and what we can do.
Dr. Kelly:
I mean, it’s, it’s exactly that. It’s really first identifying how you interpret certain things in your life. So like, yeah, in order to be successful or in order to be competent, I must do, I must, you know, act right? Like trying to understand what your, like what your programming is, like what you’re working off of, right? So if I’m successful then I’ll be enough. If I hit that milestone or hit that achievement of getting my doctorate, my dad will finally think that I am, you know, whatever, yeah.
Enough or he’ll love me or you know, whatever it is, right? So usually there’s a core need that is needing to be met that we’re overcompensating to try to meet. So it’s sort of like redefining the meaning of success, redefining the meaning of being human, redefining the meaning of competency, redefining like what it means to sort of build your career or whatever it is that you’re, you’re kind of in knee deep, so motherhood, right? Redefining what it’s like to be a mom and what’s doable, what’s not doable, all those things. So it’s like, it’s a lot of, depending on your experience and your background and your history, trying to understand how, what your lens is essentially and how you’re thinking about things. And if it needs to be maybe updated a bit, right?
Because if you don’t achieve that thing, that doesn’t necessarily have to mean that you’re less than or you’re not enough or whatnot. It might just mean that you’re being a mom right now and your career is being put on pause because you’re focusing on a different priority. Doesn’t mean anything, but just to reshift in priorities versus you being not good enough or a failure or whatever it is. So yeah, you could take that one in a lot of directions and usually like the way to kind of understand that is just to kind of sit with it either through journaling or with your therapist or something like that to try to understand sort of what’s, what’s the, the programming underneath the surface as it relates to yeah your humanness and, and what it is that you’re doing.
Wendy:
Yeah, I love that. And as I was just saying on that other interview this morning, I really believe that like a lot of times when we’re doing it different with our own kids, when for example, when we’re using compassionate discipline versus punishment, right? So when we’re using mistakes as opportunities to learn and we’re helping our kids understand that like, just ’cause you didn’t get the grade that you wanted in class or you know, today was messy And, we had a big argument and there was a consequence that you couldn’t go to that play date or whatever. ’cause we’re still working on the life scale of keeping your hands to yourselves. Yeah. Like we’re, we’re now practicing many of us, at least many of my students from all over the world, we’re practicing doing it different with our kids where we’re teaching them mistakes are just opportunities to learn.
Doesn’t make you a bad person, doesn’t mean you’re any less valuable. And so the most important thing is that we learn from this and that we talk about it, we process what was the emotion underneath of it? What do we think the root cause? Why do you think you punched your sister in the face? Yeah baby. And then tomorrow, how are we gonna make a different choice? Like a, you’re like, I just feel like you’re healing, a little bit of healing happens when you like help Heal the next generation. Like I always think like the, when you’re parenting this way, you’re kind of healing past generations and healing for future generations because you’re just paving these new neural pathways that it’s like what you never had, right?
Like is that, would you agree that that’s kind of what helps you to redefine your meaning? Like, ’cause every time you tell your child that yeah, you’re like remembering that Oh yeah, it, it doesn’t, like if you got all the laundry and the dishes and all your work projects and you were like perfectly calm instead of freaking out when they missed like that actually, and this one has been tough for me Kelly like I over the years with this idea of like just trusting that like you’re enough and your value Yeah, yeah. Comes in like just being you like yeah, it’s taken me years. It’s really been like the last four years that I realized how much shame I was carrying and it all actually started pretty close to when I did Chrissy’s, like some nonlinear movement stuff.
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah, yeah.
Wendy:
And shame started rising to the surface and I was like, oh my gosh, But, it is a deep one to really like look at this idea of I am enough. I’m like, I wanna say like bullshit, I’m enough when I get everything done.
Dr. Kelly:
Exactly. Well and that was, you didn’t come outta the womb like that, right? Like that was conditioned in some sort of way, either of environmentally or systemically or family systems and dynamics or other institutions that you’re part of as a kid, right? Like so much of that is conditioned. And so it’s about breaking down that conditioning and deciding what still fits and what’s still good and then tossing aside what’s, what’s no longer useful to you.
Right? And I think most of us don’t really get taught that we are enough fully. Right? We also live in a society where it continues to tell us that we’re not enough. Right. Use this skincare line because it’ll make you look better be wear these clothes ’cause it’s gonna make you look trendier and more interesting, whatever it is. So we also are kind of up against the society markers of “enoughness.” So yes, it’s about learning, uncovering and shedding and kind of decompressing what was programmed and kind of building up a new narrative. And yes, I think parenting is a beautiful way to reparent yourself, right? Doing all the interventions you do with your kid, turning it right back around to your younger self than you. And yes, that sounds very, you know, psycho-babble of your inner child, but like they’re in there, they’re in there and they, they experience the stuff that they experience and the feelings are still attached there.
So the more you can bring that back to yourself and her, the younger version of of you, the more it, it can further Heal, right? So it’s a bit of like a double dipping of work But, it can be really, really impactful.
Wendy:
Hmm. So beautiful. Awesome. Okay. Number two way that we can Heal from high function anxiety is to Heal our Trauma. So talk to us about that and how high Functioning anxiety can be rooted in traumatic experiences or emotional wounding.
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah. So, so kind of, sort of piggybacking off of what we were just saying, right? So, I think an example of this, even from my own life is a little bit what I was mentioning before where I had a family system where, yeah, it wasn’t enough, right?
Literally I came home with an A minus. Why didn’t you get an A? Right? Like, it was a constant sort of reinforcement that I need to be perfect in some sort of way to be loved or seen or valued or heard, right? So that emotional trauma wasn’t necessarily some jarring event or like intense experience. It was just sort of this like iteration that built up over time, over time that created this narrative, this belief system that I’m not enough unless I do X, Y, and Z. So those would be the types of traumas, emotional traumas that I might be referring to. But, it could kind of manifest in all kinds of ways, right? You could have a parent that was super critical or super minimizing or emotionally distant, right? So healing maybe some attachment wounds, right?
So say your attachment with your primary caregiver was more on the insecure side versus secure. And that’s a whole other topic about attachment styles and things like that. But there could be a lot of wounding. So it’s not just trauma. And also, I I talk about it being wounding too, right? So it might not, like, you might not consider it a trauma But, it might be a wound that is contributing to some of these high functioning behaviors present day, right? You’re trying to kind of avoid often a big feeling. I don’t wanna feel failure, so I’m gonna overcompensate by, you know, staying up all night and working on this presentation or webinar I’m giving tomorrow so that, you know, I don’t fail in any kind of way or whatever. Right? So it’s a, it’s just about redefining why you’re doing what you’re doing and where that’s coming from, where it’s feeding into and kind of healing and massaging out some of those, those pieces.
Wendy:
Yes. And then is, is it correct what I’ve learned about trauma, like big trauma, little trauma, so trauma, like big trauma is like, kind of like the, the car accidents or losing a parent and then the little trauma is more like the things you never had or the things you didn’t get. Like for your ex in your example, like, like it might be unconditional love, right? Like if you came home with a C, your parent was like, awesome. Like tell me how you got that. How are you gonna, do you wanna change it next time? Do you not? Which is kind of how we teach with grades, but like when you get that response of like, oh well disappointed in you.
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah.
Wendy:
That’s an example of like lacking unconditional love, right?
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah. And trauma is definitely, it’s, it’s been exploding I would say in the last decade of what we understand about trauma.
’cause if you look at the DSM, the way that they describe trauma is so not encapsulating everyone’s experience. Not everyone has PTSD. Not everyone has acute stress disorder, right? So like, yes, I forget who, who created that, that con concept of Big T, big tr Big, T, little t trauma, that kind of thing. That’s one way to describe it, right? Like yes. But I think like trauma at the end of the day is anything that overwhelms the brain and body’s ability to cope can be experienced as a trauma. I do think like there’s a lot more maybe wounding that happens versus it being a trauma, but yes, like a trauma, like a car accident or a physical or sexual abuse or whatnot versus maybe like an emotional right, like a, an un unconditional love is definitely, it can, maybe it’s not traumatic because it was just something that was just part of the system, but it’s pretty severe wounding and over time can feel like trauma.
Yeah. But the condition is definitely evolving and growing and, and we’re understanding and learning more about it and the impacts and So, I think whatever definition resonates with you is probably what I would encourage
Parents. I wanna chat with you about one of my favorite toys for young kids. The Tonie Box, which is just the coolest imagination building screen free audio system that uses figures to play stories, songs, and more discover imagination and active play for children. It’s everything. A young explorer’s growing mind needs designed for little listeners, ages three plus. The Tonie Box is a learning device that helps children with speech and language development and starts them on the path towards literacy.
It’s designed for young children to operate independently and through tactile play rather than staring at a screen. I mean, hallelujah to that because here’s the reality. Parents screen time among children rose over 50% during COVID and still remains above pre pandemic levels. And while we’re never ever shooting for perfection here at Fresh Start Family, I know from firsthand experience that too much screen time, especially with interactive screens, can definitely increase misbehavior big time. So why not replace some of that iPad or iPhone time with the Tonie box as an engaging and fun alternative to screen time?
Research shows that children who hear 21,000 words per day during their developmental years have an increased chance of completing high school and college. So using a Tonie box is a great way for kids to boost the number of words they hear all while we’re possibly getting a load of laundry done, nursing the baby, or doing a compassionate discipline activity with older siblings. Amen to that. It’s been great also to see firsthand my own kids and my friends and fresh start experience students. Kids fall in love with Tony Boxes. My neighbor, Michelle at one point texted me pho photos of her little toddler one afternoon during a season where he started to skip his nap and she thought she was going to lose her mind.
And she said, Wendy, I’m floored. Look at him. He’s mesmerized. He spent an entire hour in his room just playing quietly, listening to his Tonie box all alone. Pretty awesome, right? So go check them out. Families, they’re soft enough to snuggle, tough enough to handle hands on kids, great for on the go with seven hours of battery life. Very simple to set up and include headphones for quiet mode. Just head to tonies.com and use coupon code freshstart for 10% off your first starter pack.
I’ve heard it’s also like, can be just your response to the situation, right? Like…
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah.
Wendy:
Your stress. Yeah. Which is so fascinating. Okay, good. That’s super helpful.
Okay, so number three we have as a way to heal from high functioning anxiety is to Heal your Gut and Oh my goodness. Yeah. That high Functioning anxiety. Yeah. Tell us more.
Dr. Kelly:
What I’m say about that is it goes back to the nervous system, right? So if we are in this high Functioning anxiety state, and let’s just call it anxiety, right? Like we are in this anxious state for more often than not And, we are stuck on right? In that sympathetic part of our nervous system, right? Like, you know, agitation and whatnot. That is directly going to impact our Gut because when we are in fight flight mode, the system is just focused on whatever that threat is.
It’s pretty much sort of like turning off, if you will, all the other systems. ’cause they’re not really needed. We just need to focus on fleeing and fighting whatever’s going on. So our gut gets directly impacted, the digestive system gets directly impacted. This is also kind of why too, when you’re really nervous about something and maybe you have to go number two right away. Yeah. Or what that’s, that’s the body’s way of being like, oh, I’m gonna shed this. I gotta get rid of this And, we gotta focus. Right? Which it is funny, I had somebody on Instagram be like, it’s kind of weird that like that’s how the system was created when you’re in an emergency and then you, you have to go do that, right? Like do that. Right. It actually doesn’t make any sense, but it’s just the body’s, you know, way of responding. And also all the stress hormones are being flooded, right?
Cortisol, adrenaline, all of those things. ’cause we’re trying to fight, quote unquote or f flee, whatever this threat is. So our gut gets hammered, hammered, hammered. And I would go to say, and I’m not a naturopath and a medical doctor, but so much of the gut disorders I do think is just a dysregulated nervous system. A chronically dysregulated nervous system than it is like something you’re eating or, and maybe it’s something you’re eating too. But nonetheless, I think it’s the way that we are managing our stress. And doctors do say, your stress management, they don’t describe to you the nervous system piece what is actually happening in the physical body for why it’s impacting you so much. Right? Why you have IBS and things like that. So the more you look into the gut piece, the more you understand the gut piece, and the more you learn to regulate those gut issues are going to subside, especially Yeah.
Yeah. They just will. Beautiful.
Wendy:
And that, that, so you’re saying that that can of course come through like say, working with a naturopath or just looking into like how you can Heal through medicine, right? Heal your body through medicine, but also that, that emotional piece that comes with like therapy life coaching. Yeah. Doing the work that we do with, with, with families, students, whatever clients, patients you call them, I’m like, what do you call them? Different things. Yeah. But, it’s like that combination, right? That that’s what causes the gut to be able to function and like Heal is when it’s safe in both ways. Exactly.
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah. And then also there’s, there’s, you know, bidirectional communication that’s going on constantly between the brain and the gut.
Actually in 80% they say the information that the brain is getting is from the gut, right? So if the gut is all discombobulated and it’s just, it’s not looking good, right? Like there’s just a lot of dysregulation that goes on. So when we soothe it by managing our stress, regulating our nervous system, healing from our traumas properly, proper nutrition, hydration, all of those things, right? Kind of the basics, the more that that body can go back into like a little bit more of like a safer homeostasis versus a more dysregulated homeo homeostasis. So
Wendy:
Yes, I look at when I first, my journey with like healing my gut has been so up and down over the last few years, but I feel like I’m remitted again this year.
But I look back to like, when I first realized that like something was going sideways as far as like weight gain and more fatigue. Yeah. And like, I mean, I’ve always had, like I said, the headaches and stuff, but I, and I started to see these naturopaths and they’re like, oh yeah, there’s, there’s these things going on. But, it was, at the time I found, I founded this business, which took so much courage, like financially, I remember just being up like super late to like launch the programs and like there was so many nerves in the beginning to like fun, like, you know, to get the business funded. And then, and that came right off of the season where I was like, when I found positive parenting and I did a full 180 where we were just knee deep and like power struggles and traditional punishment that was not working.
And I was so, so much despair and hopelessness as a mom, and then follow that up with like, let’s start a business. And that’s when Hashimoto showed up, right? And that’s like, you’re like, oh, now, now looking back, I’m like, okay, this makes sense. But the regular doctors are like, there’s nothing wrong with you. You’re fine. You look good to mean. And then it takes years and years for you to realize, oh, okay, this is probably a Gut issue. Yeah. And it’s, it’s all combined.
Dr. Kelly:
And western medicine is a beautiful thing. It’s just more of a disease model versus like a prevention, right? They do say increase your stress, but there’s no education on what that even means and what stress is doing to your body. So like the biggest thing that any moms and families that are listening to this is get educated on the nervous system, understand your nervous system states, understand the impact of your stress response, and then build up those coping and of course do the underbelly work of like trying to understand what is feeding it all right?
Because there’s reasons as to why you’re responding in the way that you are. And half the time it’s in service of survival, as they say, right. In service of safety. Even though we cognitively might, I am safe, but like emotionally we might not feel safe. So that’s why we’re, you know, doing all the things that we’re doing. But yeah, it’s all connected.
Wendy:
Yep. Yep. And, and I see the show up when like a kid rolls their eyes or hits their sister and, you know, or a disagreement with a spouse like this, just high level of like kick in of danger, you know? And so find, being able to get to that place of like responding instead of reacting is such a, a beautiful but intense journey.
Dr. Kelly:
Oh yeah.
Wendy:
Okay. Number four. We have Stop, Avoiding, Stillness, and Yes. Oh my gosh. This feels like it is exponentially getting harder and harder. Not harder is not the, but like our surroundings. Yeah. Dr. Kelly are, oh my gosh. I’m like, what is happening to our world? Like, oh yeah. The idea of sitting down and looking out a window or sitting is like almost foreign these days. Totally. Tell us more about how this can help us Heal from high Functioning anxiety.
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah. Well it’s a, and and, okay, let me, let me disclaimer. When you first try to do Stillness, it is gonna feel very threatening. It’s gonna feel very jarring. It’s gonna feel very uncomfortable in your body and in your mind because your system is so primed and so habituated to a higher level of functioning, more of that sympathetic zone that we’re talking about, right?
That fight flight zone. And it gets used to that, right? It gets familiar with that. So it becomes the norm as you’re dropping down and you’re working to regulate the nervous system. That’s where those stillness practices start to come about. But it’s gonna feel really intense. The more you hold onto it. The more you build awareness of why you’re doing it, the more easy it’s going to get. Just like anything, right? Going to the gym is gonna feel easier once you’ve gone. This is the first time. So yes, stillness is really another way to describe, and I’m not just talking about just sitting in a chair being perfectly still. It’s anything for the brain and body to get a break or reprieve from thinking, doing, accomplishing, achieving all of the things, right?
Anything that you can do that feels like you can drop into the present moment. I, I will consider illness Yes. Present.
Wendy:
This is like, but this is like a it. I mean, at this point, aren’t we fighting addictions? Of course. Yes. Like it is intense. Like this is an intense one. It’s like, I feel like it is to give up that productivity. Like so example, if I go up to pick up the kids, I’ll throw on my Slack channel for work and I’ll listen to Slack messages, like from my team. Just like, but the, and when I try to force myself to just be quiet or if I go on a walk
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah.
Wendy:
And not have a learning podcast, it’s always about business.
But like, oh my gosh, it’s like fight. It feels like I’m fighting a really deep addiction. You are. ’cause it’s, it’s habituated in you, right? Yeah. This is form. And this you also have probably like, if I do this, then this will happen. You have assumptions of, of these things, yeah. Won’t do this, then this will happen. Right? So you have to also kind of like understand what those assumptions are. Because at the end of the day, if you really think about it, it’s the good old car analogy. If you drive that car from California to Florida and don’t put an, don’t ever do a tune up, you don’t put any oil in it and you don’t put any gas in it, it’s gonna, it’s gonna burn down or it’s not gonna like function well, right? So like the idea of stillness is a recharge, is restorative, is is just like we have to sleep, right?
The body has to sleep. So if we are on the go from the time we open our eyes to the time we close our eyes, we are go, go, go going. Think about how much taxing you’re doing on the physical body and you’re doing on the nervous system. You’re requiring your body to function at a level that is, is above, its its capacity most times. Right? And then repeat, repeat, repeat. So it’s this element of almost weaning yourself off of Yes. Kind of an addiction, addiction to doing right? And that is high Functioning anxiety, actually you’re addicted to doing. ’cause there’s all these beliefs that are intertwined in it and these assumptions about life that really should be challenged. But if you think about it, the more you give yourself space, the more your body gets to rest and, and recuperate and restore the more productive you are, right?
Wendy:
Yes.
Dr. Kelly:
You’re less, you’re less, less closer to burnout and you’re, you’re more clear, you’re so, it, it’s it’s about, yeah, changing the mindset of what it means and why you’re doing it, right? It’s not just popping your thing like, okay, I meditated check. No, that would be like the high Functioning anxiety way of doing it. It’s more like, I’m doing this ’cause I know I need it. Ugh, okay, I’m gonna sit here. Oh man, this is so uncomfortable in my body. Oh, I feel it in my chest, I feel it in my belly. It’s okay, we’re working on this. We’re working on this. Right? Like, it’s gonna take that in the beginning to then get to a point where you’re like, okay, this feels amazing. And I’ll speak from my own experience. This one was super hard for me, like super hard. I’m like, oh, meditation doesn’t work for me. It’s like, no, my system was just so freaking jarred and so dysregulated that it was scary, it was overwhelming.
And then I got different tools or whatnot to help sort of like get me into that space where I could kind of drop safely and it gets easier and easier and easier to do so. But it’s a work in progress for sure.
Wendy:
Yes. Oh, that’s so helpful. Specifically that verbiage to say to yourself like, we can do this. This is uncomfortable. We’re doing this, this is important to us. Yeah. With practice it’ll get easier, you know, like, oh, so good. I could riff with you on that one forever. Yeah. Okay, last last one is Heal Negative Beliefs. Oh, actually we have two, we’ll wrap it up. Two in one here, Kelly. ’cause I know we’re running outta time. Heal Negative Beliefs and Heal your nervous system, which we’ve been talking a lot about the nervous system this whole time. So maybe just talk to us about the negative belief side effects.
Dr. Kelly:
Yeah. And we’ve already kind of hit on this, right? It’s about understanding what those beliefs are, right? Like And, we all have them. They’re all, we all have them from some point in our lives for different reasons, right? I’m not enough, I’m not lovable, I am, you know, whatever. And it’s about understanding what those beliefs are, understanding what they’re attached to and working to heal them, right? So for instance, I’m not enough. I, I’m not enough if I don’t get all the things done on my to-do list, right? I feel less than, I feel not as good or something. When in reality it’s like, no, you’re a human being and you can do all the things, but you can’t do them all at the same time, right? So I’m going to be not a perfectionist about this. I’m going to be an imperfect human that I’m gonna get to these things as best I can and that’s gonna be good enough for today.
Right? So it’s about like re re shifting and re kind of building that kind alternative mindset around what that core belief is trying to tell you. Because that’s trying to keep you safe, right? It’s trying to, like, if you do all these things and you won’t not feel not enough, you’re gonna feel enough for a temporary moment of time. So it’s really just like a, a ploy, if you will. But yeah, you gotta really uncover what those beliefs are.
Wendy:
Oh, so good. When I uncovered the shame piece, it was like the, the common phrase in our household growing up, a shame on you, which is a version of like, what were you thinking? What’s wrong with you?
Dr. Kelly:
You’re stupid. How could you,
Wendy:
Yeah, holy smokes. Like, and now, I mean, it’s probably gonna take me, I mean, decades and decades to, to keep replacing it and realizing, oh that’s just, that’s just a negative belief.
There’s nothing wrong with me here when I didn’t get everything done today. I don’t need to berate myself. It wasn’t that I’m an idiot, that I’m not organized enough that I need to be better. Or the kid, the kid got a note sent home or still smacked his sister today. Like, it’s just so interesting. Once you discover it, it’s really, I think actually can be fun to realize how much it shows up and, and at least you have that awareness and that Discovery and then you can work to heal it, which, right. Yeah. you know, is just beautiful.
Dr. Kelly:
And the thing to remind yourself is that we are healing, right? We’re not working to be healed. We are clean and yes, we’re gonna get to a place where we feel more healed, but like the goal is not to be healed ’cause we’re imperfect and we’re human and we’re constantly kind of evolving, right?
So it’s just reminding yourself that you’re in progress of healing these things, right? So it is a kind of conducing, just like it is with you wouldn’t think to yourself like, oh, I’ll drink one glass of water and I’m good for another week. Yeah. But it, keep drinking water, right? So it’s same thing with our mental health is you, you keep kind of soothing. You keep kind of nourishing in the different ways. Keep working on things, learning all the things, just like anything else.
Wendy:
I love it. Kelly, this has been so helpful. Please tell listeners where they can find you. Tell us if they, I mean, I, I’m pretty sure to work with you and your therapist – it has to be in California, right? But you do so much beautiful work through Instagram and all the things. Tell us, tell us where they can come find you in any parting words for someone who is not used to therapy or never been to therapy or encouraging, just totally just to be able to do all this.
Like, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s great to consider therapy or life coaching or anything like that.
Dr. Kelly:
Yes, totally. So yes. My, my group practice is nourishwellnessgroup.com and then also you can find me on Instagram @dr.KellyVincent. I think there’s a dot in there. And then, yeah, when it comes to therapy, I think it’s just reminding yourself that like, if there was anything physically going on, you most likely would go to your primary care doctor. And when it comes to your heart and mind, why wouldn’t you also care for that, right? So yes, it’s gonna be scary. Yes, it’s gonna be overwhelming, especially if it’s brand new and you sticking with that discomfort is going to be able to open up a lot of doors for a lot of growth and a lot of healing.
And also it’s so about the right fit, right? So you do your homework, you call as many people as you need to, you feel a sense of connection, right? Get your nervous system feel to feel safe in that connection. And that will make all of a difference, right? It’s more about that than I think anything else. So, yeah. And it’s, it’s definitely like worth it. The work.
Wendy:
Ugh. So good. Kelly, Dr. Kelly, thank you so much. And you’re right. There is a dot in there. Well make sure we link everything. But it, Dr.KellyVincent. Dr. Kelly, thank you for all this incredible wisdom that you have shared with us today. And we’re just so grateful for the work that you are doing and all of the therapist and wonderful, you know, resourceful helpers of the world that you also have in your, your practice there in Encinitas, just down the road from me.
It’s a beautiful office. If you happen to be local, definitely reach out because it’s a beautiful space you’ve created. Thank you. So thank you for all your work for having been here.
Alright, families, that’s a wrap. I hope you loved listening to today’s episode just as much as I loved recording it for you friendly reminder that now is a great time to head on over to freshstartfamilyonline.com/workshop to learn more and grab your ticket for our live fast track discipline Workshop happening on September 30th. Alternatively, if it’s easier for you just to hop on into Instagram, I’m @freshstartwendy and shoot me a DM, go ahead and do that with the word Workshop and I will personally message you in your dms a link so you can learn more and grab your ticket for the live Fast Track Discipline Workshop.
All right, families. Well, thanks for listening as always. I can’t wait to see you at the live event on September 30th. And lastly, if you loved this episode, please head on over to Instagram and share, making sure you tag me again, I’m @FreshStartWendy. And just let me know, what did you love about this episode? What was maybe an aha moment or something we chatted about that made you think about parenting in a different way? I really love to hear from you guys over there. And when you share over on Instagram, it helps spread this light-filled message, right? You never know what family member or friend you have that has had a really hard day in their parenting walk.
And when you share our episodes, it spreads that inspiration and motivation and encouragement that again, you just don’t know who needs it. And someone might stumble upon an episode thanks to you and just feel a little bit better and be able to have hope and sleep better tonight. And know how they can do things differently in their parenting walk tomorrow to make their life easier and more joyful with their children. So again, thank you so much for sharing. It helps us and it helps the world And. we just really, really appreciate every single one of you who are loyal listeners to the Fresh Start Family Show.
For links, and more info about everything we talked about in today’s episode, head to fresh start family online.com/193.
For more information, go to freshstartfamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening, families, have a great day.
