On this episode of the Fresh Start Family Show, Wendy is joined by Jaime Gordon – the Unstuckologist – who is a life coach specializing in helping families get unstuck from anxiety, overwhelm, procrastination, while learning to gently transform their relationship with themself and their circumstances.
Wendy & Jaime chat about parenting an anxious child and common ways we can actually make our children’s anxiety worse (while we think we are helping).
No matter if you, your child or someone you know experiences anxiety, this episode will inspire and encourage you to move through it with bravery and empowerment.
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Episode Highlights:
- If we struggle with anxiety, we will often have a kiddo who has anxiety show up
- Normalize fear by empathizing with times we also feel scared.
- Rule out physical issues and then look into anxiety contributing to the issue (ie tummy ache when it’s time for school)
- Seek to understand their behavior. Anxiety can present as retreating or attacking.
- Trying to control things / becoming perfectionistic is common with anxiety
- Our own anxieties can be triggered by our child showing anxiety
- We might believe we need our child to be ok before we can be ok ourselves. We need to calm our own anxiety before we can be present for an anxious kid
- It’s not healthy to fear fear. It will only cause our anxiety to grow. This can lead to panic.
- Help them with embodiment of where they feel it, which can help it resolve more quickly
- Connect with our kids in calm times when they’re not feeling anxious. It helps them know you see them even in their non anxious moments.
Resources Mentioned:
Follow Jaime on Instagram
Website https://home.jaimegordonlifecoaching.com/
Not able to listen or want to read along with us?
Here is the episode transcript!
This episode of the Fresh Start Family Show is brought to you by our quick start learning bundle. How to build a compassionate firm and kind discipline toolkit that works with kids of all ages. Head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/discipline to grab your quickstart bundle so you can get going today on building up a strong compassionate discipline toolkit in your home.
Wendy:
Hello. Hello families. Welcome back. I am your host, Wendy Snyder, positive parenting educator and family life coach and I am excited to bring you today’s episode with Miss Jaime Gordon who is talking to us about how we can parent an anxious child, and I loved this episode. This conversation was really near and dear to my heart because in my home I have one very strong-willed little girl and one amazing little boy who struggles with anxiety sometimes. So this conversation really helped me personally to learn some new ways that I can approach my son when he’s having anxious moments.
And I know that it’s gonna really benefit you too if you have a little one that struggles with anxiety. Whether it’s really intense or whether it’s just here and there, I think Jaime is brilliant and brings just so many great ideas and wisdom to the table that I’m excited for you to listen to. So lemme just tell you a little bit more about Jaime before we pop into the episode. So Jaime Gordon is a professionally trained transformational life coach speaker, also the creator of Joy Bootcamp course and the Parenting and Anxious Child Course. She has spent a decade stuck in anxiety, learned what worked and what didn’t, and now coaches others how to get unstuck so they can create the life they want.
And again, I just think Jaime is brilliant and since we recorded this podcast, it was probably Like, I don’t know, three or four months ago by now. I have shared the raw file of this inside of our private support group, the Fresh Start Experience with my private members probably four or five times already because I knew this episode wasn’t gonna air to the fall, but some of the things we talked about in this episode I thought were so meaningful and helpful that I just couldn’t wait to share it with my own members. So I just think it’s extra good as far as this conversation goes. So without further ado, you guys help me welcome Jaime to the show. And last thing, actually, before we get into it, I will say thank you so much to everyone for being a loyal listener of the Fresh Start Family Show.
One of the best ways that you can say thank you if you enjoy our episodes and really feel like you’re blessed by them and the things in your home feel easier and lighter due to the support we bring your way, if you could hop on over to iTunes and leave us a quick two minute review, even if it’s like a minute and you just pop in four, four stars, five stars, whatever it is over there and just say, Hey, I love this show that helps us so much in the podcast world to grow. And when we grow, we are able to reach more and more families with our free support all over the world. So thank you in advance for leaving a review. Thank you for being a loyal listener. And now without further ado, help me welcome Jaime to the show.
Stella:
Well, hey there, I’m Stella. Welcome to my mom and dad’s podcast, the Fresh Start Family Show. We’re so happy you’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean, Jesus, and rock and roll and believe deeply in the true power of love and kindness. Together we hope to inspire you to expand your heart, learn new tools and strengthen your family. Enjoy the show.
Wendy:
Well, hey there families and welcome to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family Show. I’m excited to be here with Miss Jaime Gordon, who is going to be chatting with me today about how we can parent an anxious child. Welcome to the show Jaime.
Jaime:
Thank you for having me.
Wendy:
Yeah. Alright, well as always we like to kick off our interviews just hearing more about your story. So will you tell us a little bit about how you became passionate about helping families and children in this capacity? I love your work, Jaime. You’re one of those people that like I found on on, I think I found you on Instagram. And I just like instantly was like, Ooh, I’m gonna hang out with her. And your expertise and your wisdom just seems brilliant and very heart centered, which I loved about you, And I loved learning a little bit more about your story, but I want you to tell listeners about it now, please.
Jaime:
Absolutely. Well, childhood anxiety became part of my passion because I came by it with like by going through the fire with my oldest child who struggled with anxiety for most of his life, he’s now 22. And from the time when he was little not wanting to go into the McDonald’s play place to play, I’ve had to like climb in there with them being slow to warm up to people not wanting to have necessarily the play dates. And as we get older, of course anxiety tends to get bigger and stronger, especially because the tools that I was using was what I thought was the best thing I could do that was going to help it.
Jaime:
And it turns out it was the exact opposite of what was useful and helpful for him or for I and so when I started to learn what actually works, of course there’s like that ugh, like regret, but also there’s this just desire to be able to reach back in time to myself and give myself the tools I so desperately wish that I would’ve had. And so in my professional life, I’m a transformational coach. And I work with adults, and yet I feel like I was sitting on this like goldmine of information, And, I was like, I have to offer some sort of resource to help the children with anxiety. And in fact, some of my clients come to me because they have persistent anxiety and that’s what they actually wanna work through.
And to be able to like integrate what I do with some of the adults into like what do we do as parents when our child is experiencing anxiety and not wanting to make it worse for them because I know no parent actually wants to make it worse. But there’s so many things we do that we inherently think are better, like it’s gonna help it and it’s the exact opposite.
Wendy:
Yes, I I love it that, so it sounds like a lot of your work, you work with parents – tell me if this is right Jaime – you work with parents who are struggling with anxiety and then also through that their kids often are struggling with anxiety. Is that the pattern that you normally see?
Jaime:
Well, my clients are all over the road. I, I help anyone who feels stuck, whether it’s a business, personal, relational, but there is definitely a segment of my group that if people are like, Hey, I’ve been stuck in anxiety for 10 years, I’ve been going to therapy, nothing’s working. And within a matter of a few weeks their lives are changed because tools work if you’re, if you are willing to work them. And what I found is when I was offering one of my co I have a, a digital course for people who aren’t in the market for an actual coach and they started to use the tools like, oh, I used that tool with my kid. And at work And I was like, oh my gosh, I’m sitting here on this stuff. I’m gonna make an entire toolbox for parents to do with their kids. And they get, there’s a course for them to be able to learn the tools and how to actually help their child through the very normal human emotion of anxiety and not dump, gasoline it on it accidentally.
Wendy:
Yeah, it’s, I, it’s interesting ’cause a lot of the times, and I’m no, I’m not an anxiety expert by any means. Like, I have a tendency I, I love, I have a lot of specialties. I’d say I like to do it all, but I love helping first and foremost families of strong-willed kids. And then I always say what I teach And, I specialize in when it comes to strong-willed kids and compassionate discipline and all the things like it helps children of all kinds. But when I’m supporting someone who has an Anxious child, what I see in my work is usually they share in the anxiety. Like most of the time the parent has struggles with anxiety and therefore, so like in our family, yes we have one very strong-willed kiddo and then one softer, more mellow kiddo.
But he’s the one who struggles with anxiety a little and then daddy and like, not like in like a, you know, horrible way, but that they have the similarities. But that’s what I usually see is that a parent, if a parent yes, is able to heal and get the tools and work on themselves, then they’re actually able to also give those tools to their children. Right. Is that accurate?
Jaime:
Absolutely. There is a, a strong correlation between an anxious parent – I, I spent a decade in anxiety and depression and when I learned how to come out of it, right, that’s when I started to go like, oh my gosh, I was just like, I created a perfect ecosystem for my child to marinate in anxiety. There’s like these, you know, those simple things like don’t go in the street, you know, well of course we don’t want our child to run into the street.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Jaime:
But it’s like that activation in our body sends our child a message. They’re not safe. So absolutely there is a cor also we have like the genetic component of mental illness of all types. So we know that there is like the nature inertia, right? Like whether you have the ingredients for it or if you’re marinating in an ecosystem that creates it. And let’s just say that right now, statistically speaking, it’s not when will your child or if your child will be struggle with anxiety, it’s when, because of the unique situation that we’ve been in coming off of like Covid and a very fear based a lot of the way their schools were the, all of that sort of stuff. And then the added technology video games that and what that does to our brain health like and the lack of like downtime, all of these play a role.
Wendy:
Nature deficit. Yeah. Oh it’s like heartbreaking, right? You’re like, dang it. Like we’ve had so much like technological advances and we’ve learned so much and we have psychology now and all the things, but, and technology allows us to like get together, right? Like you And I are able to get together for the conversation, Indiana, California and bless families all over the world and ugh, when it comes to like adding to anxiety for our children, the uptick in the screens really seems to be this like thing that’s gonna, we’re gonna look back in, we’re already looking back, but like in a few decades we’re gonna be like, dang, there was children or humans like and anxiety levels before screens and then there was humans with anxiety levels after screens.
Would you agree?
Jaime:
Oh, a hundred percent. It’ll, I don’t doubt it’ll be us looking back like, you know, it used to be cigarettes were healthy, right? And now of course we know they’re horribly unhealthy, but it was actually marketed as a health item and right with the gift of technology also comes the curse. Like it’s the duality of anything, right?
Wendy:
Yeah. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well yes, I love it. So when your child struggles it all, all of our kids are gonna struggle with anxiety at some point or another. Such a important fact. And we know that some just really struggle. So I was so excited to talk to you because again, I do so much work around like helping families with the power struggles and like switching out a punishment into compassionate discipline And like those moments, right, where you’re like, just do what I said please just put your shoes on. I’ve asked you 17 times. But then equally like challenging but totally different is those moments with those little ones that struggle with anxiety that just rips your heart out.
And so our own personal story here in at Snyder household within the Fresh Start Family, our daughter is our beautiful strong-willed one, she’s almost 16 now. And our little guy, he’s more of the mellow, easygoing, but I always say all kids struggle with their own things, right? So, if you got blessed with the strong will, you’re gonna like be able to lead and start your own company and have the courage to get up on stages. And like always joke, Stella will could like go to UCLA with like a volleyball scholarship at 17 and be like bye, but she has her own struggles, right? Like, and then Terrin is like this easygoing go with the flow kid, but his struggle has been anxiety. So over the years, the way it showed up And I was, and my question was gonna be like if we can just share about what it looks like in a kid that struggles with anxiety so parents can really understand like, is this something that my kid struggles with or not And I, I think they know just by knowing.
But when Terrin was little, it sh it shifted. He was like the kid that was would easily go to the church nursery or preschool where Stella like flipped out for years. Like she would get so angry, wouldn’t let anybody touch her. She’d have like a rash all over her face and just scream for like an hour. Terrin went, he was fine. And then at age four everything flipped. And I swear I she could was from like watching ET we tried to watch ET and like he, he gets left right, he gets left, the spaceship flies away and et gets left and he, he could not watch the movie. And then from that moment on he started to have separation anxiety and who knows if it was really from the movie, but he, he started to have really bad separation and anxiety at preschool.
And. I mean that was just in a long season of getting this little guy to go to school, you know, every thing under the sun. We tried and we did it, we made it through it. But then we got to kindergarten and he would literally like climb the walls. Like he, there was a chain like fence and as we were leaving he would be trying to climb the fence to get out uncontrollably crying. We joked that he’d have to go to like the shrink’s office every day where they had like all these fun tools. Our, our local school system in San Diego is just amazing with like social emotional literacy and stuff and the resources and the teachers we have. But he would have to go to that office every day. And it was through first grade when that finally subsided.
And then I thought, okay, hopefully that was just separation anxiety, right? But then this last year and a half, it was probably like the end of c a condition showed up that was super scary. And it turns out it’s very common. You’ve probably heard of this as the anxiety expert and it’s called like it has a very long name. It’s like Pollakiuria. It’s like when you think you have to go to the bathroom but you don’t and and if you’re like in a car for example where there’s not a bathroom, the mind somehow like plays a trick on you and makes your body have this sensation. And so all of a sudden it showed up and we, we’d be like on a road trip coming back from Joshua Tree and he’d be like in tears that he had to go pee and we’d have to pull over on the freeway like four times in a row.
And then so we went to all the doctors worried that it was like diabetes or something and they’re like, no, this is anxiety. And so I just thought it was so fascinating that it can show up in all these different ways and that’s what you know we’re gonna talk about a little bit today is like, like what, you know, some of the mistakes that I think even the most well-meaning parents make that actually can make anxiety worse. And I’m excited to hear about that. But it was just trippy. I had never even heard of that like, and yeah and thank God we found some resources and we helped him with his mindset and all the things and it worked. We found a few different people to help him and he broke free of it. He still has thoughts every once in a while he’ll get worried if we’re going to a concert, we go to a lot of metal shows, we’re like a rock and roll family and he’ll you can tell he assesses the crowd and he, if he’s in a situation where he’s worried he can’t get to the bathroom, that’s when it flares up.
So you know, it’s like an anxiety thing but it’s fine now. It’s not like hindering him. Whereas before he couldn’t go on a bus on a field trip, he couldn’t and it was probably like four months that this came down but that signaled to me like oh my gosh my mama heart was like my little guy. Like this is tough And I know that’s probably still minor in comparison to what so many people struggle with. So tell us, Jaime, how does it show up? What do you see going on for kiddos that have this often? Tell us a little bit more about that.
Jaime:
Well first I wanna just commend you for like being resourced to check out is there something physically happening and then going to the mental resource because a lot of when, especially like early childhood anxiety, the it that doesn’t necessarily present the way it does as an adult. So one of the really common signs would be like a constant or a semi-regular stomach ache, right? Like my tummy hurts And that one is like, oh great, that could be you have the tummy virus, it could be that there is a food allergy, it could be. But when you’ve gone down those roads and there is still the tummy ache and you’ll notice there might be a pattern to the tummy ache like at night going to bed or Sunday night before going to bed school Monday, you know, kind of Sunday scaries.
So the tummy ache is a great one to check out and check the physical stuff because it might be, and then know, okay, this might actually be, if there might be something he’s, that child is actually nervous about a child who asks for what’s next. Like they wanna know all the details and they can’t seem to relax without knowing the details. Like where are we going when we go after that? What are we gonna do when someone and you can kind of start to notice where they start to maybe overthink, you get a cat who’s three years old and they’re asking you like, well, well what happens if he, if the cat dies one day, right? Like, oh is the cat gonna die?
Right? You can, they’re letting you know what they’re processing in their mind or the idea of like needing to, wanting to frequently go to the bathroom or maybe they can’t go to bed unless the pillow is faced a certain way or they need that, right? And they, and even to the point of anger, right? If anger is a secondary emotion that there might be some fear underneath it. And often as parents we overlook that the anger could be just a sign that they’re afraid of fear and anger’s an easier emotion to be with. There can be like where they just kind of stare off and you just notice like they’re, you’re sitting in a room and they’re just kind of blank stare. They’re, they’re in their head in thought.
That doesn’t mean that it’s anxiety, it’s just something to notice whether they have a hard time going to bed and staying in bed. They don’t want you to leave the room. They don’t, there’s a monster under the bed thoughts of I don’t think they like me or I don’t have friends. Like where you can tell that they’re worrying about where they stand in a social setting. Maybe there’s a field trip at school and they can’t sleep the night before they’re, they wanna know the details. Well what about the bus? And if I get a and what if I get lost and they’re just, and maybe they’re not able to articulate what it is, but you notice where there’s an epic. Now that doesn’t mean that they’re in a, like a diagnosable anxiety problem, it just means that they’re feeling some anxiety, very normal human emotion. And so whether or not your child falls in the category of this is my day every day, I can’t even leave a room without my kid crying, right?
Like a, a parent who maybe you go to the garage to put something away and you come back in and your child’s in tears because they couldn’t find you. Like that would be a sign of maybe a heavier level of anxiety, not a problem. Just to notice like are there symptoms of anxiety that I’m maybe not necessarily noticing?
Wendy:
And how about like not wanting to go to school? Does that show up a lot?
Jaime:
Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Not wanting to go to school, not wanting to get, refusing to get out of the car and and you might be like, well they’re just stubborn and they don’t wanna to test but underneath that there might actually be a nice little chunk of anxiety.
Wendy:
Yes.
Jaime:
So you know when you have to like pull the child off of And, I, I like to think of as like if you look at your child and look at nature as an example, like if you had a dog that was terrified, what are they gonna do? Either cower or attack and your child would do the, the same thing. They will cower and be really perfectionistic and they’ll be super compliant and they’re worried that something isn’t perfect. You know, like they write, they were doing their homework and they have to recheck it or they’re really upset that they didn’t, you know that they messed up their writing and you can see the erase marks and they’re in tears over it on the other end.
Crumpling up the homework, throwing it across the room because there’s something now that doesn’t necessarily mean that’s anxiety but it could be just something to check in.
Wendy:
Yeah, I love the idea of like going deeper on that which we study. So like we practice and practice what we call seeking to understand here as a community with my members because it’s such a practice, right? Like it’s so easily like handed down generation after generation to just assume a kid’s being a pain in the ass when really it’s like if you can just seek to understand like especially if they’re like in anger or like, you know that kind of like last night my daughter who’s a freshman now, she was like had shared with us how she was like really bummed that she had found out she had gotten a worser grade the first quarter than she thought she took honors math. She decided to like take honors math. All the counselors come, you know you’ve, you’re a straight a kid like you should take honors And I swear Jaime.
I was Like I don’t know but Like I wish a kid. I just wanted to get straight A’s and like cruise through high school. But they were all like, no, you should take honors, you should challenge yourself and here we are. And it’s like it was a little bit harder than she thought it was gonna be and she was disappointed in the grade. So, but the first quarter, you know the grade was like it dropped because we were al also traveling. So anyways, it dropped way below what she wanted. She thought she was gonna at least be able to get a C and she found out that she didn’t. And so she’s telling, she’s like, oh. And she was mad and she was like blaming and she was really reactive and defensive to everything we were saying and it was a messy conversation but it was also beautiful ’cause we did our best to hold space.
And then finally at the very end I just was asking her like what is actually going on for you? Because like you’re very defensive and you seem very angry. And she was very scared that we were angry with her and we were like, we’re not honey, like this is blah blah blah. I have my whole spiel about grades. It’s not the end all be all. I just want my kids to like learn life lessons through these things. And she finally said, I think I’m just scared I’m gonna have to repeat this grade. And that’s when she broke down and she was just Like I, I’m so scared. Like if I have to repeat this class, like it was the, you could tell it was the end of the world to her and that what was un, that’s what was underneath all the defensiveness and the like, like the snappy behavior. It was fear.
It was fear. And then as soon as she got there she softened, we felt connected. We were able to just hold space for her instead of like having this like awkward engagement. So yes, I like the idea of seeking to understand and just know that. And I do have a client right now who the little boy at night, he is su he gets super pissed if his blankets aren’t right and if mom does not do his blankets right, And, I mean I think he has a pretty high level of anxiety going on. Like there’s other things that he just gets really upset and like mad And so that’s really fascinating to hear that. So interesting Jaime. Okay, so when it comes to what we can do with an anxious child, talk to us about your first takeaway, which is calming our own emotions before we help our children is key.
Jaime:
Yes, yes, yes. Because your child is experiencing their own emotional reaction. And often what happens for us as parents is that we somehow take their upset and it means something about our parenting and consciously we’re not like going like, oh because you’re upset and make me a bad parent. But in reality, if we actually slow down what’s happening, we’re getting triggered to either this makes me a bad mom or their anxiety is triggering my own anxiety, I don’t like it or I need them to be okay so that I’m okay a little bit of like kind of dependancy and we get triggered like they’re upset, makes us upset and when we come to try to put out the fire while we’re basically a can of gasoline, it doesn’t work.
So we just first take a pause and if it means that you can’t be a resource in that more that moment, then you’re not a resource because you coming in with your upset is not gonna be a resource anyways. So it’s like they get to have their reaction and you get to be the container. But if you aren’t in a space to be the container to let them and to be there to actually get to the point where they get to be with their fear to be what’s the conversation that’s wanting to happen? Then take a moment. Like take a pause, notice your own activation. Because often we have a kid that is, I don’t wanna go to school. Right? And you’re like, well why? Like, it’s gonna be fine.
Jaime:
You, you’re gonna and everything’s gonna be good, right? We’re trying to, we’re so uncomfortable with their emotion that we try to fix it.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Jaime:
And that’s how you, that’s one of the ways you, one of the ways you know you’re uncomfortable and you’re your own activation is do I feel the need or do I find myself trying to fix their emotion and make them do what you want
Wendy:
and make them do what you want? ’cause that’s like the core of parenting. You’re like no you’re going to go to school, you’re going to go to bed. Right? But like if you can just slow it down, like you said, there’s so much like discovery and like processing in that pause.
Jaime:
Yeah, the pause is huge. And to know that every time you’re activated they, they didn’t activate you, their upset poke something in you that you’re walking around with already. Yeah. And so one of the, like one of the sentiment tools, And, I might courses save that. Like remember that and then when you are by yourself, you work through what came up for you because it’s actually a gift for you. If every time this happens it triggers me, that means that’s in me and that’s great to know. And if I can work through that on my own, the next time that it happens, I’m gonna have greater understanding and probably not get triggered.
Wendy:
Yes. Yeah. Yesterday this rolled out in real life and it was really beautiful. I’ve been doing this kind of work, right? Like life coaching parenting for 13 years now and I’m like, there’s moments where I’m like, yes, I’m fluent. I mean obviously I’m an educator, And, I hope thousands and thousands of people. But it’s such a journey, right? Like to get there, there’s still days where you’re like, yesterday I’m like yay, I did it, I paused and Taryn, I picked him up from school. So he is sixth grade or T almost. Yeah, he is 12 and he goes to a CrossFit class, which is so cute, I love it. Him and his buddies and you know, they, oh we love this. And so I signed up $150 a month to pay for this CrossFit class.
We were traveling last week so we missed it. And then his football coach was like, we’re having practice tonight. So he came home and he is like, none of my buddies are going, I’m not going to CrossFit And I was like, yes you are. Yes you are. We like blah blah blah. And so he was really activated and he’s like, he gets very flared up if he thinks he’s gonna have to do something alone, right? Like his little anxiety will be like if God, like if he had to go to a class without his buddies like oh my gosh, I can tell that’s just like torture for him. But I was activated in the moment and when I slowed down and he kept saying like, mom, let’s talk about this. Let’s talk about this. And I texted his buddies’, moms And I just was like, Hey, just double checking. Are you sure your boys aren’t going Like, I really like Terrin to go, it’s wonderful, they can take it easy, blah blah blah.
And I was waiting for them to respond to really know what we were doing with, but it was very tempting to wanna like engage and tell him all the reasons why he needed to go and why it wasn’t a big deal. And I just was Like I just need a moment. And we’re driving home a six minute drive and I’m like, just let me have a few moments just to process my own thoughts here and my, and he was like Mom And he was almost in tears about it. And And, I wasn’t perfect by any means. I mean I still ended up telling him all the reasons why in the end, but it by that point we had heard back from his friends and everything was okay ’cause they were going. But in that moment what I discovered Jaime, is it just took me like probably four minutes, but there’s a fear of wasting money. Like that was me, that was my problem.
Like, and then there was a fear of him being on like him being affected by the technology too much screen time. And as a working mom, right, you’re like, you’re always feeling guilty that they’re on the screens when you’re like trying to finish projects and we always have a million projects in the air here at Fresh Start Family. And so that was my things to work through, right? And then as soon as I was able to like acknowledge the fear and then kind of work through like not even, I mean it was just more of an awareness of like aha. Oh I see what’s happening here. That just gave me the ability to be a little bit more calm when we then went to talk about why it’s important to me as a value when we sign up for something that we still go and then, you know, it all worked out.
Like God has a way of working stuff out. The football coach ended up canceling and I’m just like, okay, thank you. Like that was for nothing darn it. But, but the pause was really helpful to me yesterday and just gave us a little bit more of an ability to problem solve together in him from us to not be mirror neuron, like neuroning each other, right? Like, I have mess. He’s, but just to have me be Like I know this is uncomfortable and just let me be silent for a few minutes. I’m not mad at you, I just, I need to like bring myself down here and ’cause they, they bounce off that, right?
Jaime:
Yeah. And that’s a great point that even when you know new tools, it doesn’t mean that you’re going to have the awareness or bandwidth to choose them in the moment. And that’s okay. The idea is that as we learn how to do things differently, that when we are aware, we choose it and sometimes we don’t notice until afterwards and then we can retroactively go back and be like, you know what, when you said that earlier I was seeing red right? Or I really was uncomfortable with the fact that you were like scared or you didn’t wanna go by yourself. And I, you know, I was trying to fix it and that’s not what you needed. Will you forgive me? You know, like we get to go again.
Yeah. And to know that like out of 10 exchanges, if I can shift four of them, I’m gonna pat myself on the back.
Wendy:
Heck yeah.
Jaime:
I think we put too much pressure on ourselves to be like, you know, like an air quoting like good mom. Yeah. When really Like I just wanna be a connected mom. I wanna be a present mom. And I grow, I wanna be a growthful mom. You know, And I don’t have to be perfect. And I can release some of the choices that don’t bring me the results.
Wendy:
I want a Growthful mom. I’ve never heard that term. I love that. Yeah, that’s a great way to put it. Yesterday felt like a four outta seven and it was good enough and it was okay cool. I didn’t braid him with all the reasons why he watches too much TV and plays too much Minecraft. But I didn’t, wasn’t like a total absence of like kumbaya, like my yoga pose, right? Like so I like that idea like four outta seven or even if it you’re at a two outta seven or a one outta seven, like it’s celebrating that growth is just key. I love it. Okay, let’s move on to point number two that you have for us is the importance of not being afraid of our fear.
Jaime:
Yeah. Okay. So I like to think it is fear. Normal emotion, primary emotion. Every single human experiences fear. But when we are afraid to experience and hold or be or process through our fear, we resist it. We try to distract from it, we try to fix from it. And when we do that, the fear doesn’t go anywhere. It just is accumulating. And the more we are afraid of our fear, it will grow to anxiety. And the same thing is true with anxiety. If we aren’t learning to accept and be with our anxiety, it will grow and grow and become panic.
So if you’re at a place where you’re already panicked, know that, okay, I repressed my anxiety, And I repressed my fear. Cool, good to know. But if I can actually learn to be not afraid of my fear, then my anxiety will lessen because fear is a very helpful emotion. But if we don’t listen to it, the volume gets turned up, we get anxiety, we don’t listen to our anxiety, the volume gets turned up, we get panic and there is not much more uncomfortable than panic attacks. And once we’re there, your brain is wired there, you’re going to experience some for the rest of your life. Not to the same duration, but just to know like once you’re there you’re gonna do more. Now the cool part about parenting an anxious child is that you’re getting in on the ground floor as things are structuring and as their brain is still developing.
When I work with like a college age student, they grow and shift so fast because their brain isn’t finished. Developing adults takes a little bit longer, but children, they’re like lightning speed. Like when you invest in mental health for your child, know that you are actually getting like 10 x based on
Wendy:
Yep.
Jaime:
They, they don’t have the practice that we have. But we wanna also, even if you’re investing in your child, we wanna be not the ecosystem that’s making things worse. We wanna be collaborative in where they’re trying to go. So if we are afraid of our fear, how could we possibly teach our children to not be afraid of their fear?
Wendy:
Yeah, th and that’s, that is so bingo, right? Like, I think all of us. I mean that’s like the essence of what happens with most families who find me, and I’m maybe you reflect this too, is like, you know, they wanna focus on their child first and it’s most helpful and effective and powerful if you can look at where the like the disconnect or the skill isn’t built inside your first, yourself first and then we can teach the kids, right? So it’s often starting. Yeah, starting with us. So two, so two quick examples here. So I’m just thinking myself and then my kid. So Like I now at 45 have a fun new like high society level.
Like almost to the point where I’m like, shit, please God, don’t let this turn into a panic attack at the dentist. Oh my gosh. So I was practicing last month. And I was terrified and, and I’m just trying to, to act like number point, number two here is like, don’t be afraid of your fear. Obviously I’m a life coach. I just spent like the entire month we just focused on the five basic emotions in our membership, the Fresh Start Experience. So I have these tools, but I’m just trying to figure out like, so because I was like, oh I feel scared that I’m gonna, I’m they’re gonna gimme the medicine or the anesthesia and I’m still gonna feel it. And I just kept going over my head. Okay, that’s what I feel scared about. And if they do, I’m gonna raise my hand.
This are the things I’m gonna do. I’m gonna use the meditation, I can do this. But I do think I was acknowledging the fear very clearly and not afraid of it. Okay. So that one works and it was still uncomfortable as heck, but I did not have the panic attack. I was really scared that my body was gonna shut down. And it does seem like it’s going there like more as I get older. But I feel like it was effective what I did to avoid that from happening. ’cause I’ve never had that in my life. Like the panic attack stuff. So then with Terrin, okay, so say like when it comes to like the Pollakiuria stuff. So the point is what this point is to just very clearly define like what do you feel scared about?
Right? So it’s like, so the other day was Like I feel scared of like going to a class where I’m alone. And this like the Pollakiuria thing is I feel scared that I’ll be stuck on a bus. And, I won’t be able to go to the bathroom. And, I’ll pee my pants. Like right. Just identifying the fear and knowing that you have the, the ability to like move through it, that it’s not gonna kill you. Is that the point of what you’re saying with number two here is not being afraid of our fear is like knowing that it’s not gonna kill us and suppressing it won’t work.
Jaime:
Well I don’t know if we always have to identify in fear. I think sometimes we can just go, oh you feel afraid. That’s okay. I feel afraid sometimes too. Just normalizing that fear is okay. Like even if a child is going to bed and they’re scared, I’m scared, I’m scared, I’m Like, I know And, I don’t even, I don’t like falling asleep when I’m scared either. Makes sense. I don’t like it. I believe you that that you’re scared, right? And then moving into a tool to help. And so one of the things you can do in that moment, like you’re in the the dentist, one of the ways to process it is mentally right, like you did perfect. Great. But another way is just to like be with it somatically being able to go, where’s this?
Where do I, and this is great for kids because they can do, you can teach them to do this like in class, like where do I personal, here’s a dis disclaimer. If they have capital T trauma, feeling things in their body might actually feel worse. So just to know that if your child falls into that category, probably not a tool to choose for them. But most of us have a bunch of little traumas, right? And this works great is just being able to be with the physical feeling of fear in their body. And that might be like, oh your tummy kind of hurts. Okay. Like let’s concentrate on that and just fully accept that feeling. And I’ve got some meditations and of course, but it actually, if you think about it right now, like just scan your body like as if you’re listening to this, like you might need to close your eyes and scan your body for any sort of con contraction or heaviness.
A lot of people feel that like in their pit of their stomach or maybe a tightness or a pressure on the chest or a lot of times a closing of their throat, like feel like a lump in the throat. And all you have to do is just bring your awareness to that sensation and then concentrate on it. Like, like if you skinned your elbow, you could concentrate on the sting without thinking any thoughts about how I did it? Is it gonna leave a scar? Do I need a bandaid? No. If I just was gonna feel the sting And I fully just a hundred percent concentration on that, what you’ll notice is that in a matter of seconds to 90 seconds, that sensation will actually release and melt and be gone. ’cause we’re not, so we don’t have to actually enter into the mental, we can actually process this physically, which is great for a kid that’s in class.
They can’t, you’re not there to talk about them. And they learn a tool like that. They can do that knowing that the mental is important. Because otherwise as soon as you’re done with it, your thought comes, you have that same physical sensation, just like part of the process. There’s like a thousand ways to be able to process the fear of emotion without it being a threat.
Wendy:
I love that. Yeah. In that dentist chair. ’cause they had to gimme so much darn anesthesia. I think it’s ’cause I’m Irish, I’m like, I’ve heard I had like high tolerance to anesthesia or something, which is so annoying. So they had to gimme so much that like half my throat was like numb. And I’m like, oh my gosh, I feel Like I feel it in my chest. I feel Like I. What if I stop breathing? What if I can’t swallow?
Jaime:
Yeah. So I, well, you know, thought about, what’s interesting about the dentist is when they, this is what I’ve have been told, so I’m not a dentist, but when they give you their shot, it actually has a little bit epinephrine in it, which actually will increase your heart rate. So your body probably assu like associates dental, work with that feeling of anxiety in your body. The important thing is to not leave. Do not leave. And your children do not leave if they’re in a place of panic. Do not take them out of that place until they are calm.
Wendy:
Got it.
Jaime:
If you’re in the grocery store and your child is having a complete panic attack, do not leave until they’re calm. Because otherwise you will, they will associate that place forever as dangerous. And then their brain will start to look for what else is similar here. And instead of the grocery store and it has bright lights, well then they go to the gym at the teenager, there’s bright lights. This place becomes unsafe too. And it would trigger,
Wendy:
Yeah. So like a school setting, I can imagine the school setting where it’s like, it’s probably And I know clients have done this, right? Like they just get so Like, I can’t do this. I like the child will not – like they’re clawing at you and so they just put ’em in the car and let ’em leave. Right? Like that’s an example of like, hey, let’s instead work towards like sitting and or going to a space in the school and just processing and coming down and then we’ll leave if we need to leave.
Jaime:
Yes, So, if you need to leave, you can leave. Like, so like let’s say you, you buy tickets to a concert and you, and they, you know, they don’t know that they’re, that the noise is too much and the all of that stuff. Just find a way for them to find the calm before you leave so that the place doesn’t become associated with danger. Because that’s really the birthplace of agoraphobia is when we leave places in a panic, our brain will just automatically associate that place as dangerous. Now if you’ve already done that, like cool, no bad you get to go again.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Jaime:
So if your child is having a meltdown at school, like you might need to and they won’t get outta the car, you might need to pull over or get to a parking space and sit there for an hour for them to calm down and then take ’em into class. Or then take ’em home.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Jaime:
But like allowing for their to like, this is okay, this is not a problem. You’re afraid. I get it.
Wendy:
I love, I love your verbiage. You say over and over again, this is not a problem. Like
Jaime:
yeah,
Wendy:
this is parenthood, this is human hood. Like some of us are gonna have this struggle and some of us are gonna have that struggle. And so it’s okay. Like we can do this. We’re together. Nothing is out of our capabilities. And I know it’s uncomfortable and we got this. We’re together.
Jaime:
Yeah, it’s, and the thing is like even you saying like your fear isn’t a a problem. Like I know you’re uncomfortable.
Wendy:
Mm.
Jaime:
And I say this to myself, like their discomfort isn’t a problem. Like they’re safe to actually feel those heavy emotions. When we believe that to be true for ourselves, we will be a much more resourceful container for them. And also they don’t think that their fear is okay, which is why they’re experiencing anxiety. So if they can become com more comfortable with the idea of like, I’m really afraid right now or I’m really anxious right now and for it to be okay before we move, like just that knowing of like, you’re not in danger to experience fear.
Wendy:
Okay. Yeah. I love that. Oh my gosh. So then when it comes to the Pollakiuria stuff, again, if he’s not going through it right now, thank God. But again, it’s just such a great example that was so trippy that I was like, ah. So like in that moment your temptation is to be like, like some like, ’cause I watched all these things, right? But it was like, the feeling obviously is like in your bladder. Like you like the body. They say that the body for these kiddos is like, it literally feels like you’re gonna pee your pants, you have to pee so bad. So it feels weird to teach them like, okay, go ahead and give focus on that. Like, ’cause you wanna say like that. So some of what I had thought I had learned was like, that’s actually not a true sensation.
Wendy:
Right? Which was confusing. ’cause for me as like an embodiment coach, I’m Like I don’t want this because the, we should listen to our bodies. But in this moment the body was almost Like. I guess it wasn’t tricking him, it was just speaking to him. Is that how you would say it?
Jaime:
I would say that there is a sensation that comes from the fact that we actually need to urinate and there is a sensation that is there to serve me. Right? There is a feeling of being out of control and being very uncomfortable with being out of control. And this is a coping way of trying to gain control. Because we think that if we control the outside of us, we’ll be able to control the inside of us, right? Like if my house is a mess and I’m feeling chaotic, I think that if I clean up my house, I’m gonna feel calmer. Or if my kids are having, you know, tantrums of any type, I think that if I calm them down, they’re fighting each other. If I calm them down, it’s gonna calm me down inside.
That’s an outside in approach. In reality, the most resourceful place is to find it within and we will watch it be neared outside magically it will happen because if I am calm and resourced inside, the things that are happening outside me, outside of me are not going to bring me to a place of overwhelm.
Wendy:
Yeah. Yeah. So just teaching him like that is, that is, it’s like you can bring your attention there. Where in your body do you feel it? And like that it’s just something that’s speaking to you. Like it’s just telling you, you probably feel scared that you’re outta control. And like just being with it, Like I know clients with me, I teach ’em stuff and then they’re like, but then what do you say? What do you do? Right? And so we’re not gonna go go there today. That’s like what your programs are for. But just that step alone of just being with it, where is it in your body for him it’s obviously down there and just being like putting, like focusing all your energy there.
Jaime:
And, I would think even in like in that situation, I would bring less Like I emphasis on that thing and look at like, that’s just like the symptom, right? That’s so it’s like, like, you know,
Wendy:
Oh you’re right.
Jaime:
like we’re sne, we’re sneezing too. Like we’re sneezing and we think that’s the problem when the sneeze is just the like the symptom of the cold.
Wendy:
Mm, good point.
Jaime:
And so we actually wanna deal with the cold and this, the snee will take care of itself. So like, but if I keep going like, oh, like I’m not supposed to be sneezing, I’m never actually gonna deal with the cold.
Wendy:
So it might be show also showing up in other parts of his body. Like if he really stopped to scan, he might feel it in his chest or his throat or like his like thought like that maybe he wants to cry or something like that. Throat. Right.
Jaime:
Yeah.
Wendy:
Like so that is something that I don’t think I’ve played around with as far as like having him slow down and scan like that is just one of the embodiment practices you mentioned to help as one of the tools. I’m sure you teach it, but
Jaime:
Yep.
Wendy:
That’s really interesting. Oh my gosh. Okay. Our last point, miss Jaime, is importance of not creating all of our connection around the anxiety. Talk to us about that.
Jaime:
Yeah, so like aside from like you needing to take your own time to calm yourself, aside from not trying to fix what your child’s anxiety or shear is, it’s really important that we spend time investing in connection with our child that’s outside of our capacity in managing their anxiety. Because especially in families where there is a more anxious child, they take up more space and time, just like you have a strong-willed child, they take up more space and time. And just like with strong-willed child, if I give all of my energy into correction, then I actually am creating more of that explosive dynamic because that’s where they get their energy from me.
Same thing is true with the child who is anxious. They’re used to connection being in the form of supporting them through whatever it’s, and so this is really tricky because as parents, we have a full-time job in parenting. We have other children, perhaps we might have a workload, like we can’t, there’s not 400 hours in a day, but to be able to pay attention and speak life into other areas that have nothing to do with anxiety. Because with having a child who struggled so much with anxiety, it was like as soon as he’s fine, I was like, this is the time I get a five minute, this is, I get a break now.
And that was actually the time where I could double down in connecting with him in a way that had nothing to do with his anxiety. Because there this little sneaky thing that we do is we miss the beauty of them and they think that the way I get attention is through this, not consciously. They’re not like, oh, I wanna be scared. So I get mom’s attention. But there is a, we’re not stupid. Our brain is always collecting data and it – like I, get snuggles from mom when I’m scared before bed, do I get snuggles randomly when I’m playing Legos and mom comes up and hugs me and tells me about like, man, you’re just so creative. I love watching you play Legos. Like, yeah, those are the moments like we can, and it’s actually a huge piece of the puzzle.
Wendy:
Hmm. That’s so cool. Jaime, I just love what you teach. I love your energy. I could talk to you all day about this, but what a wonderful, beautiful conversation. Thank you for this many ways that you are helping and serving families, I’m sure all over the world. Will you tell listeners where they can find out more about your work and how to get in touch with you?
Jaime:
Absolutely. I am on Instagram, my handle is unstuckologist, And I – you could also find me on my website, Jaimegordonlifecoaching.com.
Wendy:
Ugh, I love it. Well, thank you again for being here today. I am really so happy we got to chat and listeners go find Jaime and support her work and it’s been awesome. Thanks, Jaime.
Jaime:
Aw, thank you so much.
Wendy:
As we wrap up here, don’t forget to DMM me the word shift or head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/discipline. To grab your free discipline quickstart learning bundle. You’ll get immediate access to download our extensive learning guide where I’ll share five ways you can ditch the old school, hand-me-down punishment, mindset, beliefs and thoughts that are causing you to react like a volcano instead of respond like the firm, kind, respectful teacher you are at your core.
And then you’ll also get immediate access to my on-demand workshop where I’ll teach you our three core fresh start family strategies that make up a strong, compassionate discipline toolkit, as well as my favorite logical consequences that not only work with kids of all ages, but do wonders to unite you with your child and strengthen your relationship even in your kids’ worst moments. So pop on over to Instagram right now and just shoot me a DMM with the word shift and I’ll send you a personal link to download that bundle right away. Or you can head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/discipline to get access immediately. All right, thanks for listening and I’ll see you inside that free bundle. And also inside the next episode,
For links and more info about everything we talked about in today’s episode, head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/197.
Stella:
For more information, go to freshstartfamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening, families, have a great day.
