In this heartwarming and inspiring episode of the Fresh Start Family show, Wendy welcomes Katie Kimball from “Kids Cook Real Food.” The conversation centers around the life-changing benefits of involving kids in the kitchen, ranging from strengthening family connections to boosting creativity and confidence. Katie’s encouraging approach resonates with parents who aspire to rejuvenate their family’s kitchen experiences and empower their children, regardless of their age.
The episode delves into the significant impact that kitchen activities have on fostering a close-knit relationship between parents and their little ones.
Katie shares her three-step teaching philosophy: demonstrate, guide, and coach to independence, which has proven effective for children’s culinary education & curating confidence in the kitchen.
They also tackle common parental fears about safety and mess, offering practical tips and heartening anecdotes that demonstrate how cooking can be an enjoyable and educational family endeavor (even if youโve got strong willed kids that love to make a mess, but hate to clean up!).
Tune in now to be inspired with fun ideas on how to get your kids involved in the kitchen so you can have fun & empower your family!ย
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Episode Highlights:
- Cooking together cultivates a deep sense of connection and teamwork within families.
- Learning kitchen skills at a young age builds confidence in children, empowering them to make creative and independent food choices.
- The kitchen serves as an ideal space for kids to practice tactile and creative skills in an authentic, purposeful setting.
- Engaging older kids as teacher assistants for their siblings can provide structure and responsibility, fostering a cooperative family environment.
- It’s never too late to start involving kids in the kitchen, with motivations for teens and tweens hinging on control, choice, and meaningful contributions.
Resources Mentioned:
- Follow Katie on Instagram
- Use this link to get your kiddos signed up for Katieโs incredible FREE online #LifeSkillsNow Summer Camp – Happening June 24-28!
- Use this link to access Katieโs FREE knife skills class that teaches kids safe cutting skills! (ages 2-teen!)
- Wendyโs episode on Katieโs podcast Healthy Parenting Handbook
Not able to listen or prefer to follow along? Here’s the transcript!
[TRANSCRIPT]
0:00:02 – (Wendy): Well, hey there, families, and welcome to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family show. I am thrilled to be here today with Miss Katie Kimball from kids cook real food. Welcome to the show, Katie.
0:00:17 – (Katie): Well, thank you, Wendy. I’m so happy to be here.
0:00:20 – (Wendy): Yeah, me too. I know this interview has been in the works for a little bit. We had a few reschedules and I’m just really excited to talk to you because it’s perfect timing. I feel like I’m in a season now that my kids are teenagers, almost 13, almost 16, where I am ready to get some rejuvenation in the kitchen, some connection heavy, empowerment heavy. We’re just, we’re going to talk about a lot today, but I’m excited to implement what you teach now more than ever because my kids are not in the kitchen a lot right now. Katie, I’m going to be honest with you.
0:00:55 – (Katie): It’s hard. It’s really hard. As when they’re teens, they get so busy. But, I mean, that’s what I’m all about is whether they’re two or eight or twelve or 17, like, it’s never too late. Tomorrow is the best day to start.
0:01:08 – (Wendy): Yes. Every day is an opportunity to start fresh. Right? So, families, we are going to be talking today about building connection, confidence and creativity in your kids through healthy cooking. And, Katie, you really are such an inspiration with what you teach and what you’ve written about and with your, you know, everything you put out into the world and the speaking that you’ve done, done and the way that you help families.
0:01:33 – (Wendy): I love what you’re all about. So will you take a moment just to tell listeners a little bit about your story? How you became so passionate about this idea of healthy cooking and nutrition and being together with your kids and the beautiful effects that that has on families and health and all the things. Tell us your story. How did you get here for sure?
0:01:54 – (Katie): Well, it’s been a journey. You know, I think, like most of us, our parent lives are very different than our pre parent lives. Right? We go through all these different phases of growth. So I was never super into healthy eating at all until I became pregnant, you know, and then it was just this huge, like, weight on my shoulder was like, this is so important, you know? And then when my first was born and he just turned 18. So talk about a new phase of parenting.
0:02:22 – (Katie): I’m about to figure out what parenting an adult in my house is like.
0:02:26 – (Wendy): Amazing.
0:02:28 – (Katie): So 18 years ago, you know, you’re looking at this little, tiny eight pound human being and thinking, gosh, every bite that he takes is so much more impactful on those eight pounds than, you know, every bite that I take. So that was the beginning for me of my sort of real food transformation and just understanding the importance of healthy food. And then, you know, as the kids get bigger, now we have to figure out how do we transmit that to them, right? Like, I can feed them healthy food. I can even.
0:02:54 – (Katie): Hopefully it becomes a habit. Like, it’s part of our family culture. This is, this is how we eat, right? But if they don’t internalize it and kind of take that for themselves and practically, like, that’s the philosophically, right? But practically, if they don’t know how to purchase and prepare food for themselves, none of it will really matter when they’re out from under my roof. So I figure, like, the next couple years is when the rubber hits the road and I will figure out if everything that I have done and then I tell others it’s probably a good idea, you know, actually works.
0:03:26 – (Katie): So for us, it was a huge journey. I mean, in 2009, I started teaching families online how to stay healthy without going crazy, and then added in the kids cooking element in 2016. And so that grew out of just me having at that point. So I now have four kids. They’re 18, 1411 and eight, so. But, you know, by the time we had four, I was spending a lot of time in the kitchen, and I felt like I wasn’t spending a lot of time with the faces I was feeding, you know?
0:03:55 – (Katie): And so partly because of that, because I needed a little more balance in my life. And I, you know, cooking together is a way to spend that. Like, I like quality, productive time together.
0:04:07 – (Wendy): And I love those two together. Quality and productive.
0:04:11 – (Katie): It’s not glitter all over the house families, right? It’s like you get dinner at the end or a snack. But also, my oldest was ten, and so I had, like, crossed that 50% threshold of they’re beyond 50% of my time parenting them. You know, obviously, I’m going to continue to parent after age 18, but, like, the realistic, you have some control and some influence over your children’s lives. And I was really starting to think about the launching that I’ve just reached where he’s going to launch off into the world and what skills do I want him to have? And I’d better get started teaching them to cook. So it’s kind of twofold.
0:04:47 – (Katie): You know, I needed help and balance then. And I was looking forward to the. To the launch and just kind of really spent a whole summer teaching my kids to cook. And, you know, I heard from my own audience that so many of our generation, Wendy, have not been taught to cook. Right. So even though they might have, like, a desire to teach their kids, we’re so uncomfortable in the kitchen that people didn’t know where to start.
0:05:10 – (Katie): And so I thought, okay, we can. We can help. Like, I’m a. I’m a teacher by trade. That’s my training. I’m a mother by vocation and blending those two together and say, okay, let’s try some cooking classes for kids. And so that’s where all of that, you know, kind of grew from. And people love them. People. I think it’s so gratifying to be able to help families get their kids in the kitchen and build those skills. And like you said, connection, confidence, and creativity all flows from that.
0:05:39 – (Wendy): I love it. And that’s turned into. So now, I mean, you teach about healthy cooking and, you know, having kids in the kitchen, and then you also help parents with picky eaters. Right? Is that an element of your work, too?
0:05:52 – (Katie): That’s true, yes. That was another phase because I began to realize that most parents aren’t staying up at night, you know, going, oh, I wish my kids knew how to cook. It’s just not that that strong of a desire, necessarily. Although a lot of, especially, like, our homeschoolers definitely want those life skills, and we’re seeing more of a resurgence of that with the life skills, you know, like desire.
0:06:15 – (Katie): But a lot of parents are staying up at night going, oh, my gosh, I wish my kid would just eat better. Like, I don’t know if they’ll ever eat a vegetable. And that’s a real genuine concern for me. It’s very, very tied to cooking and to involvement in the kitchen. So it was just a natural extension of what I was trying to do for families. I needed to add some picky eating training to what I did so that I could then help other parents, you know, just kind of climb out of the hole that, that people have fallen into with the picky eating problem.
0:06:44 – (Wendy): Yeah. Because it is such a complex. We’ve had a few speakers or a few experts on the show about that, and we could bring you back on to talk about it another day. It’s not what we’re talking about, but it is such an interesting area that I can see how there’s so many elements just to the picky eating side. And the sensory and the kids and all that. But then there’s also this element of, like, how we set up the boundaries or how we, you know, handle what we’re doing in the kitchen, what we’re buying, like, all the things, it’s. It’s such a complex things. So I’m happy that you’re pouring into families in that capacity, too.
0:07:20 – (Wendy): So awesome. Okay, well, when it comes to, you know, building into our kids this idea of helping them with these three different areas, connection, confidence, and creativity, let’s just kick it right off with a connection piece. So you mentioned that, you know, so all, I mean, gosh, with four, I have two, and I’m like, oh, my gosh. Like you said, you know, you spend a lot of time in the kitchen, and you spend more time there than seeing their little faces and within the fresh start family experience.
0:07:51 – (Wendy): And so much of what we teach here is about connection, right? We know misbehavior goes down and great behaviors that we want. Cooperation, listening, following through, keeping your hands to yourself. All the things. It goes up. When relationship is strong. When connection is strong, we always say, rules plus relationship equals respect. Rules minus relationship equals rebellion. So talk to us a little bit about how getting our kids in the kitchen, teaching them how to cook, teaching them about nutrition and how to take care of their body and all the things, aids in connection.
0:08:24 – (Katie): Katie, the kitchen is such a great playground. You know, it’s really, like, for me, the best educational arena to pass on any qualities you want for them, you know? So I tell parents, man, if you want your child to be service minded and a generous giver, if you want them to have a sense of humor, if you want them to be a loyal friend, right? If you want them to take responsibility and have a hard work ethic. Like, these are all qualities that people in my community say are very important to them.
0:08:54 – (Katie): I just think the kitchen is a place where you are working together with your kids toward this common goal. Right? And so, like, there’s an atmosphere of teamwork, especially if the parents maybe don’t know how to cook that well. I encourage people to learn together. Like, what a beautiful gift to give our children, to be humble enough to say, okay, here’s something I don’t really know. Let’s work on it. Let’s figure this out together and learn as we go.
0:09:21 – (Katie): And that just, I mean, you can’t help but be bonded over something like that. And what’s another way to bond people together is adversity. And things always go wrong in the kitchen. It’s a wonderful opportunity to be that good example of how we can be a little flexible and solve problems together. But then once you’ve gotten through it and you get your meal or your snack at the other end, you can celebrate together and have, you know, all of those good, like, bonding chemicals that we’ve made it and we’re spending that time. It’s, um.
0:09:52 – (Katie): Yeah, there’s just it that was. I started out practically, right? I want my kids to have these skills, and it was. Connection was one of these beautiful side benefits that sprouted that I didn’t expect, I didn’t see coming. Although, I mean, I could have, right, had I thought about it. But just that that teamwork together is so beautiful.
0:10:12 – (Wendy): That’s so cool. I love all that. And I can just. I’m always, when I’m interviewing people, I’m always trying to, like, get in the minds and ears of my listeners, and I have a feeling some of them right now are like, yeah. Like, we may be laughing at the, like, you know, things come up and like, oh, I don’t know, adversity or whatever word you used of, like, you know, you burn it, right? Or, I don’t know, something drops on the floor. Like, stuff goes wrong, right? Or there’s power struggles within, like, you know, your. Your little one wants to, like, break the eggs and you’re like, dude, for sure that thing is going to fall on the ground. Like, there’s. There’s tension already within that.
0:10:52 – (Wendy): Um, which, of course, is beautiful because you do learn to peacefully problem solve. You, like, everything that I teach within my programs, and I know you probably teach, too, to your families, is like, you know, you get to practice the detachment skills. You get to practice taking a pause button and slowing down and responding versus reacting and solving problems together peacefully, all the things. And I just know listeners are like, that would be a freaking nightmare if I bring my toddler into the kitchen and then out on top of that, that there needs to be knives.
0:11:22 – (Wendy): And I know you have a amazing, like, you are letting our, like, you have put together something special for our listeners so they can understand the knife thing, but, like, so just maybe talk someone off the ledge right now that’s, like, about to turn this episode off because they’re like, oh, no, I am not bringing my kids into the kitchen. It’s a nightmare. We tried to cook once, and we were like, full blown how to melt down nightmare fight by the end.
0:11:45 – (Katie): So structure is important and timing is vital. Do not. Okay. The kids will want to help right before dinner. Like that’s when they will magically be motivated. But when is your most stressful time of day? Right. It’s typically as you’re preparing dinner, especially if you have evening events, because you are time boxed. That is a terrible time to teach kids something new. That’s an amazing time. Once your kids are trained to pull them into help. Right.
0:12:15 – (Katie): Terrible time to teach something new. So I tell parents, pick a Saturday morning, right? Maybe after school snack or a weekend, like any time where you don’t have that time boxed stress to say, and, and then we, you break it down. It’s not like I’m going to teach my kid to cook or I’m going to teach my kid, you know, the seven skills they will need to make muffins. No, it’s, maybe it’s cracking eggs, right. Maybe you have a slower time on the weekend and that toddler wants to crack eggs. So here’s how we do it. At kids cook real food, we use a process, three step process, demonstrate, guide and coach to independence.
0:12:51 – (Katie): So it’s, instead of, no, you can’t, it’s great. You want to crack eggs. Watch me first, right. And you talk it through. And we have a whole system with fun phrases. We call it the bullseye on the egg. Now you get to help me. So the child would put their hand over yours because they’ve got to feel that pressure, right. They can see what you do, but the amount of pressure you put on that egg is impossible to see with your eyeballs. Right. So you want to have them feeling. And honestly, most toddlers, most are somewhere really strong willed, will kind of be placated by that, that they’re involved, their hand is over your hand.
0:13:28 – (Katie): And then, you know, once you feel like maybe they’re ready and maybe that’s the same day, maybe that’s a year down the road, it depends on your, your kids age and your own kind of tolerance. Then you can switch where your hand is over top and their hand is under that. That hand over hand technique is priceless for things like even just stirring, right. Because kids tend to pop the stuff out of the bowl when they’re stirring because of the pressure that they’re not doing. Right. So stirring is amazing. Knife skills, flipping, kind of like flipping at the stove, definitely cracking eggs and having that hand over hand training is, it’s truly magical. And so for those of you who are nervous that it would just be a disaster, unmitigated disaster.
0:14:11 – (Katie): We’ve got to think about the end in mind. Right. So mitigate the disaster by choosing the right time, by teaching one skill instead of making it such a big, big deal, you know? And then think about people like Sarah in my audience who shared a picture of her four year old using a paring knife, cutting cucumbers, right. Or Courtney, who shared that she actually taught, like, a little girl who she was babysitting.
0:14:40 – (Katie): The skill of spreading. Okay, that, I mean, we don’t even think of, like, spreading butter or spreading peanut butter on bread as being a skill, but it is because little kids, it doesn’t come innate to, like, a two or three or four year old. And this three year old went home to her mom and her mom messages, you know, the babysitter and says, oh, my goodness, she wants to make her own PB and J every day now. She’s so confident, she’s so proud of herself. And I love this.
0:15:06 – (Katie): Right? So it can be small steps with big, you know, impact, and it doesn’t have to be an unmitigated disaster. Pride, pinky swear, promise.
0:15:16 – (Wendy): Oh, that’s awesome. So you said your steps in your program are demonstrate, guide, and what else?
0:15:22 – (Katie): Coach to independence.
0:15:24 – (Wendy): Coach.
0:15:25 – (Katie): Once they know something, you’re kind of staying close and you’re using your words to, you know, remind them if they’re getting a little off track. And the beauty of all of that is once you’ve built many skills, right, over many weeks or months or even years, we, we did just celebrate a birthday in my house. I said, my oldest turned 18 and kid number two is 14. She’s my girl. And so she does happen to be the one who’s most naturally interested in cooking. And literally, she planned and made the birthday dinner for her brother. She made the whole birthday cake because that’s her jam.
0:15:58 – (Katie): But she planned birthday dinner. I was the sous chef. I was like, all right, tell me what to do because you’ve made this, you know, it was a homemade pizza recipe more than I have. So when you think about connection, like, what a great opportunity to be with my teenager, you know, giving a gift to my other teenager, like, these are just situations that we have to treasure as parents.
0:16:19 – (Wendy): Absolutely. Katie, that’s so beautiful. How cool. Well, and even that little, that little recipe there and demonstrate, guide, coach to independence, that’s like something. It’s like what we do in parenting, too, right? Like, instead of trying to do a million things at once or punish the mistakes that are kids, it’s like, no, they’re going to drop the egg, right? They’re going to need to learn from watching you first and you can’t have a kid learn something if they haven’t watched you model it first. Right. So that’s, like, one of the core places that we start with parents that we work with and then just coaching them through the, like, imperfections, too.
0:16:56 – (Katie): Right.
0:16:56 – (Wendy): Like, there’s going to be so many recipes that don’t go as planned or that you forget or you make a mistake or you’re careless and you drop an egg. Right. Or whatever it may be. And the coaching is. Is beautiful. So demonstrate. Guide coach to independence. That’s absolutely beautiful. Okay, well, you started to talk a little bit about the confidence piece with that babysitter story, but let’s go into that a little bit more because that’s huge for kids especially. I work with so many families who have strong willed kids, and, you know, confidence is, like, a synonym for, like, empowered.
0:17:28 – (Katie): Right.
0:17:28 – (Wendy): Like. But these kids, they. They love to feel. They love to feel it, but they’re also, like, these type of kids that I work with so much are often, like, second guessing themselves inside because they are the kids that get in trouble more often. They are the kids that sometimes feel disconnected from their parents because they feel like sometimes they’re the cause of problems or that strong will gets them in trouble sometimes. But this idea of, like, creating confidence in kids that they can do big things, like talk to us, how. That would be great.
0:17:59 – (Katie): So I have a little soapbox issue with our participation award culture. You know, they’re like, we. We have. The pendulum has swung a little bit too far, I think, from maybe, you know, decades past where parents never praised their kids. Right. Maybe we’ve gone a little too far that they get these trophies and awards for everything, and they know, like, they see through that, that they have no meaning.
0:18:23 – (Katie): And so how do we infuse actual meaning into both the activities they do and the praise that they receive from us? Well, the activities have to be authentic. They have to have meaning. And there’s not much more meaning in the world than keeping another person alive. Right. So when kids understand, when they feel that feeling of being able to nourish another individual, it is so powerful. They know that they’re doing something that adults do, right. That this is a real, authentic skill, and they tend to take it very seriously. You know, I do talk to parents a lot about knives and fire because either the child, or more often, the parents are very nervous about things like knives and fire. But because they are real, there is an authenticity and an authentic risk.
0:19:08 – (Katie): The kids know that, you know, and they’ll. They kind of hear your serious tone of voice. And so, by and large, kids are very safe with knives in the kitchen. I’m thinking back to when my daughter Leah was in third grade and her third grade teacher said to me, Katie, you know, come next year, like, there will not be opportunities to volunteer in school. So what do you, what do you want to do? Like, I know you help kids cook. Like, let’s. Let’s just do something and have you come in. I was like, really cool. So I planned this hour long lesson and came in and did some stuff with her whole third grade class. And we made pancakes at the end, so we had, like, griddles and kids were in four different groups and stuff, and we had too much pancake batter. They had to go to lunch and we weren’t quite finished. And this one boy was, he was on the struggle bus big time. Like, this was the kid for whom her first grade classroom had to be evacuated because he was throwing chairs.
0:20:00 – (Katie): Right. And would have physical altercations with the teacher. So when you talk about, like, this is like, strong willed level, too, you know?
0:20:06 – (Wendy): Yeah.
0:20:07 – (Katie): Really, really struggled with every part of social and academic success in school. And there was like, I know where.
0:20:13 – (Wendy): This story is going. It’s going to be so good.
0:20:16 – (Katie): There was something about cooking that, like, if I didn’t know his history, right, coming in, I would not have known that he was the problem kid in the classroom because he was so engaged, who’s so polite. I said, do you know my daughter was going to stay in after lunch and just help me finish cooking all these pancakes? And he immediately volunteered to help. He was incredibly focused, you know, very safe with the hot griddle.
0:20:42 – (Katie): I mean, I’ve never seen anything like it. I am going to guess that if his parent had been a fly on the wall that day, they would not have recognized their own kid. Like, it was incredible. So there’s something about, you know, you’re working with your hands, so that really speaks to kids, like, need for tactile sensation. Right. And you’re being so involved, trusting kids with real skills is so, so powerful. And the confidence that we see, you know, my kids tend to say a lot.
0:21:14 – (Katie): I like knowing how to cook because I know most kids in my class don’t know how to do this. Yeah, that’s cool, right? That’s super cool to be able to articulate that. So, I mean, I could. I could tell story after story about confidence, but I think that one, since you mentioned the strong willed children I had to tell about him.
0:21:30 – (Wendy): That is so cool. Yeah. So many strong willed kids often have this, like, huge significance drive, too, which is actually, like one of. So we teach about four categories in this behavior here at fresh start, family and power is one of the biggest ones. But there’s kind of, like, this fifth category called significance that often a lot of strong willed kids dip into where they just, they love to know the answer. They love to be right. They love to be significant, where it’s like, hey, look, I know how to do this. And you don’t look to me for the answer like I’m the one. It’s a version of leadership. It’s a version of a desire to serve, support, like be in charge. Right. But it’s just a little bit different. And I can tell in that story there was probably some of that. And, yeah, strong willed kids in general.
0:22:14 – (Wendy): I mean, all children have a huge desire to feel powerful, to feel valuable, to feel like they’re a contributing member of the team. And I can just see how what you teach them, how what we can teach them using your, you know, education stuff is, is really beautiful, Katie. So I love that. Okay, well, let’s move into creativity. How does this help with creativity in our kids, which is such a beautiful life skill?
0:22:42 – (Wendy): So tell us more about that.
0:22:44 – (Katie): Well, we talked. I mean, we just kind of talked about that, those tactile sensations, right. So when we think of creativity, there’s both the literal creation that we make something with our hands, and then there’s sort of that artistic part of creativity that you can create. You know, like, not just create, but create something artistically. And both happen in the kitchen. We know that. You know, brain science tells us that when you’re working with your hands, you know, so some counselors will recommend working with play doh or painting or something with your kids while you’re kind of trying to have conversations with them. That same thing applies in the kitchen. But again, it’s that productive quality time where kids are able to work with their hands, to feel the tactile sensation, to get a little messy, to get a little squishy. Maybe you’re talking about bread dough or you’re washing vegetables.
0:23:33 – (Katie): So it’s really important for kids. I know my now 18 year old back a couple of years ago said that he loves cutting vegetables. If we had a family task list for a Saturday morning, he would grab cut peppers to freeze or whatever. In the summer, when there’s a surplus, he would grab that kind of thing because he said, I enjoy cutting because it’s this therapeutic feel. Teenage boy right that he could identify, like, this feels therapeutic. And just to kind of, like, do the same repetition task. And so there’s that.
0:24:06 – (Katie): And then, of course, the kitchen is a huge canvas for testing out your own seasonings and figuring out what works. I think it’s a huge. It’s hard to. We can’t really, like, extricate confidence and connection and creativity because it’s a huge confidence boost to a kid to say, well, here’s a recipe that an adult wrote right on their blog or in this cookbook, and I’m going to change it in some way. Right?
0:24:31 – (Wendy): Yeah.
0:24:31 – (Katie): Like, how cool is that? That once kids, this is kind of for the older, a little bit older kids, you know, that once they sort of understand the ins and outs of cooking, they can change some seasoning where they can change some amounts, you know, if they don’t like mushrooms, take the mushrooms out and they’ll put in some. Some other vegetable in the stir fry or whatever it is. I remember hearing one story from one of our members about a nine year old who was very, very creative, and she made a soup from stuff, mostly she found in her backyard. So they had a little garden going, but she also added, like, dandelion leaves.
0:25:04 – (Katie): And it was a little bit, like, over the top, but it kind of worked. And it was just one of those moments where, you know, we talk about empowering that she sort of had this power to use the skills she had and serve her family. And she did a sort of a whole make believe thing where she served it through, like, the trampoline zipper as, like, a drive through window. Again, it’s just one of those. It’s another opportunity to let our kids be creative. It’s not on a screen.
0:25:32 – (Katie): Glory hallelujah. Like, that alone is a good reason, but it has a purpose. You know, we’re not just doing artwork that then we have to find a place to store it, and they’ll cry if we throw it away. Like, this is all edible art. So I love to teach kids about, we have a whole lesson in our class where we get out all the herbs and spices, or maybe some of the herbs and spices. If mom’s like, no, they’re organized. Not all of them, a select portion.
0:25:58 – (Katie): And the kids smell them all and put them in categories of pleasant and unpleasant.
0:26:05 – (Wendy): Oh, that’s crazy. Yeah.
0:26:06 – (Katie): And so then they start to think about, oh, and these are some more savory herbs, and these are some, you know, spices we might include in a sweet application. And just to sort of open up their eyes and then that day, we encourage them to make, like, a potato hash or something that’s a blank canvas. And what spices or herbs would you want to add? So empowering for the kids. So much fun for them. And for anyone who’s thinking, uh oh, my kids are going to go nuts. They’re going to add, like, 27 herbs and it will be terrible. And then we’ll waste food. And Katie, I’m not into that because I’m not throwing food away. Just tiny, tiny batches.
0:26:42 – (Katie): Right. You don’t have to have your kids make a whole recipe or a whole meal. We can create boundaries on that so that there’s not much waste if there is failure. And then we talk about how we learn from failure.
0:26:54 – (Wendy): Oh, that is good. Yeah, I forget. I think it was in the essentialism book by Rob McNohan or his second book called Effortless. I love those two books. But he talks about the idea of, like, having. It was, like, a little bit of parenting discussion, but it was around, like, having situations for your kids to fail. I think he said cheaply or safely, whatever it is. But, like, areas of life where you can really let them fail instead of preventing the failure. Right.
0:27:26 – (Wendy): And then just working through that, of being like, okay, cool, what would you do next time? Or. But there’s all these areas. And I think he was talking about, like, financial mentorship in that part of the book. But it was just a really cool concept that has stuck with me is, like, where can we find these opportunities for our kids to fail safely and fail cheaply? And that example you gave is just a perfect example.
0:27:49 – (Wendy): I love, you know, riffing on creativity for a bit, too. Like, there is such a huge creative aspect when things start to go a little awry. Right. Like, that you do have, like, I’ve. I think of the amount of times where, like, I’ll put a pizza on the rack thinking that it was fine, but maybe I didn’t leave it frozen long enough or something, or it wasn’t. It needed a pan where sometimes pizza is okay, and it’ll.
0:28:14 – (Wendy): And then other times it get dips through and you’re like, no, but you have to get creative in that moment to save the pizza. Or, like, adjust fast. Like, if it’s something is starting to burn. Right? Like, to know, like, oh, if we add water faster, you can scrape it and still make it work. But I think I just. The idea of aiding our children and creating these creative muscles from as young as possible is just of such value.
0:28:42 – (Wendy): Is of such value. And it helps us by like, contributing, right? Like, even if you have somebody chop the carrots, it takes away five minutes from your dinner time that everything has to be done on you. So I love that.
0:28:57 – (Katie): Yeah. It’s very nice to have four sous chefs and, you know, when I’m hitting those moments where, oh, again, mom did not plan her time perfectly, and we’re going to be ten or 15 minutes late for dinner, it’s like, all right, everybody, come on in. You know, eight year old’s gonna peel and cut the cucumber, the eleven year old’s gonna make the homemade dressing, 14 year old’s gonna cut the carrots, and it just, it’s.
0:29:28 – (Katie): Did I freeze?
0:29:29 – (Wendy): I love it. I love it that. It’s okay. We’ll pause for a minute. Daniel can take that part out. It wasn’t. It wasn’t bad. Yeah. Having that contribution right where it’s like everyone can just pitch in. And so I think, again, there’s probably so much going through my listeners minds of, like, it just feels like it’s inviting this, like, oh, my gosh, there’s going to be so much to navigate as far as, like, detachment from siblings fighting in the kitchen or whatever. And again, it’s just. It’s. I think what I’m hearing from you is that they really, once you build in the empowerment and the excitement and the teamwork part of it and just get through, probably there might be some messy situations, but the goodness and what it’s pouring into these kids probably helps bring down the sibling squabbles a little bit, brings down the pushback a little bit, and then it’s just a really great place to practice our skills that we learn as parents. The detachment, helping them solve sibling squabbles with empowerment instead of fixing it for them or getting so frustrated and reacting out of anger or whatever it may be.
0:30:34 – (Wendy): So it is. It’s a good place to practice, and it is a safe place to practice.
0:30:39 – (Katie): Even though I have a couple thoughts on siblings.
0:30:42 – (Wendy): Yeah, please.
0:30:43 – (Katie): Sibling battles we see in our classes. So I created my class to be at three different sort of age levels. So there’s like, our preschoolers up through kindergarten, from when kids can read, is kind of the intermediate level. And then the advanced is when you know, everything that we’ve already taught. So advanced usually starts between eight or ten or twelve. And what I did not see coming when I released this is that lots of families would have twelve year olds with zero experience.
0:31:09 – (Katie): So they were like, Katie, should I start my twelve year old at the beginner level? I don’t want them to miss these skills. And I’m like, oh. So what we generally recommend and what most families do is that they will start all their kids at the beginner level, but the older kids are sort of the teacher assistant, right? Because we like, it’s a little sketchy for the twelve year old to have to be watching videos with a four and five year old in it. They don’t, they don’t always love that feel.
0:31:33 – (Katie): But if they’re the teacher assistant helping their younger siblings, right, they’re learning because they’re there, but then they’re being those helpers. And I just find that the more structures you can set up in your family, you know, again, I’m a mom of four and we’ve got an age range of nine years. So the more time, more opportunities I can create where the older kids need to take a little responsibility, need to help the younger kids and, you know, kind of pass on their skills. Now I’ve got my eleven and 14 year old are often helping my eight year old catch up because he was a baby when we like, taught all the kids to cook. And so he’s super behind.
0:32:06 – (Katie): So they, you know, they will teach him. And that’s not without, I mean, that’s never perfect, right? That’s not without some harsh words being thrown about. But in general, it teaches the kids to care for their siblings, to have some ownership there. And that this is, you know, this is our family and we work together. So I think that it’s actually a really good opportunity to give kids, you know, that sort of space to be together.
0:32:32 – (Katie): Also, a very practical tip, when you have more than one child in the kitchen, try to send one or two of them to the table. It’s an elbow room and that will cut down both on your own sort of feeling of everyone’s in my space, you know, but also those sibling squabbles of like, she’s touching my cutting board and he’s grabbing my knife. We don’t want to hear phrases like that. The table is actually the perfect height for our younger kids too because, you know, you really should have sort of the counter hitting around belly button level. And that’s typically more kitchen table height where you just like say, okay, guys, pull the chairs out from the kitchen table.
0:33:07 – (Katie): You work on this side, you work on that side. And then everyone has their elbow room. It’s much smoother.
0:33:13 – (Wendy): Oh, I love that. Yeah, I. We have. So we live in Southern California where houses are very small because we live by the beach in San Diego. And we pay for this real estate. Um, and we just make, like, every square inch of our house work. Like, every single bed has drawers, every single part of our yard. Like, we have a skate ramp that I think there’s, like, six inches on each side to, like, walk around. It’s hilarious. But we have a galley kitchen and it is tiny. Katie. It is, like, my one place where I’m like, darn it, I hold a little anxiety in this house around it because I get so, like, claustrophobic when people are in there. So I love that practical tip of just getting them out and making sure I’m setting up the stations.
0:33:53 – (Wendy): And that’s really helpful. And I’m just thinking. I’m thinking, too, about a question for people who are scared that it’s too late to start. Because even with, like, my. I mean, obviously I’m an educator, so I feel like I have advanced skills and, like, influencing my children to cooperate and contribute in all the things. And I still, I’ve set the tone that I haven’t required them or brought them into the kitchen that much. Right.
0:34:24 – (Wendy): So I kind of represent someone who, when I hear this, I’m so inspired by it. But I’m like, dang, is it too late to start? Like, to navigate all those, like, oh, you just, you just do it for me, mom. You’ve been doing it for me for years. But I have such a desire to bring them in. So maybe, maybe just address that. If there are people with older kids and I think up to, like, eleven or twelve, I feel like it might be easier to influence. And then as things get older for, like, teens and tweens, I don’t know. Any, any last thoughts on that?
0:34:59 – (Katie): Well, you’re totally right. The motivation factor for teens and tweens, totally different chapter in, like, the parenting book, right, than our elementary kids and especially our, we little ones who are so willing to help and just want to be like, mom and dad. Miss those days. I know. So for teens, we gotta, we gotta deconstruct, right? Like, what do they want? They want control in their lives. They want choice.
0:35:23 – (Katie): They want. I do think they still want to feel meaningful. They want to do meaningful things. And so when it comes to teens, you know, reminding them that when they know how to cook, they might get to choose what meal is cooked, right? Like, that’s a huge motivating factor. Or they might be able to prepare, you know, their own homemade snack that they would actually like, as opposed to you dictating what the meal plan is.
0:35:48 – (Katie): And so for my kids, at least that’s one of the reasons they appreciate knowing how to cook, is that they get to make those choices. Yeah, I tell people when you’re kind of starting, especially with someone who’s maybe unmotivated, try to teach them a simple recipe that doesn’t use knives. So maybe it’s something like a homemade dip. Right? No fire, no knives, but really handy, you know, applies to lots of meals or, like, a homemade larabar, which is like, fruit and dried fruit and nuts in a food processor. That’s pretty easy. And it’s lovely, lovely tactile.
0:36:24 – (Katie): So some sort of simple recipe that then you can take to where people other than your family will be eating it. Right. So your next party or potluck or if the grandparents are coming over at the minimum, that way you create an opportunity for other adults to give them authentic praise.
0:36:40 – (Wendy): That’s cool.
0:36:41 – (Katie): It will happen. You know, when you say, oh, guess who made, you know, this ranch dip or this guacamole or whatever, the adults are always impressed because the bar is set pretty low for our kids and cooking, and that’s great. We can, anytime you can raise a bar and impress people, so they, like.
0:36:55 – (Wendy): Slow down, and they start looking for, like, hairs and, like, dirt. They’re like, oh, he made it.
0:37:01 – (Katie): No, but they. But the kids then, or the teens will then kind of feel that. That real praise. It’s so much beyond good job, way to go, you know, and I think that that creates more motivation to come back in. They’re. They’re a tricky bunch.
0:37:17 – (Wendy): Yeah.
0:37:18 – (Katie): For eating healthy. Again, I like to start with the end in mind. So what are your teens love? You mentioned a skate ramp. You know, if you’ve got a kid who wants to skate, you got to say, well, what kind of energy do you need to skate? You know? Are you going to want to be crashing?
0:37:32 – (Wendy): Don’t.
0:37:32 – (Katie): Do you want to build your muscle and build your coordination? Well, we need to put in the right fuel, you know, for your engine as a human being. And the right fuel is real whole foods that grow on the ground. So we, in order to do that, we got to learn how to cut them and how to cook them.
0:37:48 – (Wendy): Yeah. It’s so true. I feel like that is one of the most beautiful lessons that you can teach a child. Like, there are so many things that we teach children, and that’s why parenthood is the most amazing, um, important job on the planet. But, I mean, nutrition is one that really has not been prioritized. Right. And that’s like, you can see every, like, illness or sickness that humans develop, like, nutrition is not where doctors go first. Right. And that just represents such an opportunity to me.
0:38:23 – (Wendy): If we can start teaching our kids from a young age. And this is, like, this is tricky. Like, it is tricky. I mean, I’m always been pretty darn healthy and nutritious. And, like, now that my kids are almost 13 and 16, I’m like, man, I’ve fallen down into, like, the little processed food rabbit hole a little bit because teenagers and junk food, like, it’s so. Oh, it can feel so easy just to, like, connect with them, and they just are, like, it just seems like it’s what they want.
0:38:49 – (Wendy): And I know that. I know. We know, right? Like, for people like us that know, like, we can literally heal ailments. We can. The way that we feel at 03:00 p.m. Each afternoon is highly dependent on what we put in our bodies, both drinking, eating all the things, and to teach children in whatever way we can, even if it’s not perfect. Right. Like, instead of coming down on myself right now, I’m thinking I have really taught them a lot, and there are so many things that I can still do. And now that I’m so inspired by our conversation to kind of get back on the wagon or if that’s the right place of, like, really. Like, I was even thinking, I think. Cause I knew I was interviewing today. I was like, I feel like I remember thinking about this as soon as I woke up this morning of, like, how I could present the refrigerator in a different way, where they are more likely to just grab a platter of veggies and cubed cheese, maybe, versus, like, I’ve been giving in and buying some, like, chips and stuff lately, but whatever we can do, like, to know that we’re doing a great job. But this is really important, Katie, so thank you. Because nutrition and health in this capacity has such, like, it’s so important. And if our, if our kids can learn that lesson young, it’s, it’s very life changing.
0:40:07 – (Wendy): Right?
0:40:08 – (Katie): Yeah. My oldest just had a whole weekend away for, like, a theater thing, 2 hours away. So, like, drove himself crashed with a cousin of my, my husband that he didn’t know very well, like, all these sort of big, mature things. And I even told him, like, they were feeding him lunch, but not breakfast and dinner. And I said, you know, this is sort of a, it’s kind of a school event. You’re still in high school.
0:40:29 – (Katie): Like, we can pay for one of your dinners if you need to eat out and he actually ended up packing two breakfasts and two dinners from our house. And, I mean, talk about connection. Like, you get this opportunity when kids can take responsibility, whether it’s in the kitchen or it’s washing their own bed sheets or whatever, when they have some responsibilities rather than feeling entitled to have you do it because you’ve always done it. I kind of just mentioned that you can give them a gift when you do help them, right? So I was like, Paul, I know. You need to get out of here. You need to get on the road. I don’t want you to be driving too late at night. Like, let’s teamwork.
0:41:04 – (Katie): Unpacking this. And so together we got these two breakfasts and these two dinners and I was like, well, I can make, you know, I’ll make your yogurt for Monday or whatever. Like, just any time that then I can take back and do for him something that he’s already learned to do independently. There’s gratitude, you know, from the child to me because that’s now a gift that I’m giving him as opposed to the habit.
0:41:29 – (Katie): Mom always makes my lunch. Mom always makes dinner, right? Dad always makes breakfast. Such a shift. Such a shift. And it’s a beautiful gift to be able to give our kids.
0:41:39 – (Wendy): What a beautiful way to end this episode. Katie, that’s an awesome story. And you’re so right. It is so fun to be able to give your kids gifts like that at points, right? Like, sometimes I’ll just pick up Stella’s room and I’m like, oh, she’s going to be so happy.
0:41:53 – (Katie): Right?
0:41:53 – (Wendy): Like, and, but don’t not expect me to do that all the time, kid, like, you need to get these dirty towels off the ground by yourself. Well, that’s awesome. Well, Katie, this has been such a life giving conversation again. I just love your work and I love your perspective and your teachings. All the things tell listeners where they can find more. I know you have created a beautiful page for our listeners to come find out more, starting with knife skills. Is that right?
0:42:23 – (Katie): Yes. So speaking of motivation, some teens really are motivated by learning, you know, the big sharp chef’s knife. So go to kidscookrealfood.com/freshstartfamily. And that’s where you can, for free test out our ten minute knife skills and safety class. This is, this is for kids ages two to teen. Because that’s part of my teaching philosophy, is that we teach the same fun four ways to hold the food and three ways to hold the knife with a butter knife and with a chef’s knife so that, you know, your kids don’t have to learn something new.
0:42:54 – (Katie): As they grow older, they can just shift into sharper knives and bigger knives. But that’s, that’s our members favorite class every time we ask. And we would love for your audience to use it for free.
0:43:04 – (Wendy): I love it. Speaking of knives, when I first met you, I remember being so inspired by your work, and I ordered, like, a little thing from Amazon. And, gosh, the kids were little. That’s been a while back. It’s crazy. Anyways. And it had, like, these little, it was like these hand knives that you, like, you grabbed them thick on the top and then you more, like, pushed them down. And they had, like, some were serrated, if that’s the right word, with, like, little things.
0:43:32 – (Wendy): But I remember for years that was really helpful to use with them. And just one more thing to, like, really cement this whole knife thing, because I can just see how this is why this is such a great starting point, because kids really do get excited about cutting. Just last week or two weeks ago, we were at a ski, on a ski vacation, and in the gift shop of the ski town was like these little knives that were like, practice knives or something. And it was more like, it was more like karate or like that type of knife, like, funny. But anyways, it sounds weird, but Taryn was so excited to spend his own money on this knife.
0:44:09 – (Wendy): And Terry has good friends who have started a knife company. We actually have a few friends in San Diego that have started beautiful knives companies. Knife companies. And they just gave us a new knife last week because he does like, some of their advertising for them. And it is the most precious gift because it is beautiful to begin with. And then it’s so sharp. And I’ve never been more joyful, like, in the kitchen than using this brand new knife. And everybody is excited about it. Everyone’s like, let me try. Let me try.
0:44:40 – (Wendy): You know, like, if they’re making something, I’m like, no, no, no, use this one. So I can see how this is, like, a really fun starting point for kids to get them excited. And, and it’s also a pain point for parents because we worry that they’re going to chop their fingers off. So you’re going to teach us how, Katie, to not let our kids cut their hands off. And parents can just get to know more about your work and your education and your lessons. So, families, make sure you go check that out to give Katie some love with all the beautiful work that she is doing.
0:45:09 – (Wendy): Katie, thanks again for being here.
0:45:11 – (Katie): You are so welcome. Thank you, Wendy.
