Today on the Fresh Start Family Show – Wendy has an empowering and refreshing conversation with Deanna Mason, the CEO of Refreshed Moms geared toward all the mom leaders in the world – from stay at home mommas all the way to mommas juggling a work-life balance. This conversation is to help mom leaders exchange a life of overcommitment with one filled with spiritual rest.
Today in the episode, Wendy and Deanna discuss:
- How to intentionally & purposefully build in more rest to your day.
- The top reasons why moms struggle with rest.
- Shifting your citizenship & perspective from a cultural one to a divine one.
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Episode Highlights:
- Deanna’s work with moms & history of burnout
- Incorporating more rest into your day
- The top reasons moms struggle with rest
- Living purposefully & intentionally
- Shifting from a cultural perspective to a divine one
- Letting go of cultural norms & rules for moms
- Relationship between perfectionism & shame
- Being obedient to God in every season & releasing control
- Making a rest plan
Resources Mentioned:
Free Mini-Course: Make A Rest Plan
Fresh Start Wellness Collective
Not able to listen or want to read along with us?
Here is the episode transcript!
This episode is brought to you by the Fresh Start Family, free learning guide: how to use empathy to build connection and cooperation in your home had to freshstartfamilyonline.com/empathy to grab your copy now.
Wendy:
Well, hey there families and welcome to a new episode of the fresh start family show. I am your host, Wendy Snyder, positive parenting educator and family life coach. And I am so happy that you are here today. On the show, we have Deanna Mason, who is the CEO of Refreshed Moms, where she helps mom leaders exchange a life of overcommitment with one filled with spiritual rest. I love that term mom leaders.
Cause you’ll hear in this episode today during our conversation, there are so many different type of mom leaders, right? Whether you’re working outside the home or fully working inside the home, or you have a mix of both, whatever it may be. We are all leaders as moms, but she is a former magazine publisher of an internationally distributed magazine for teen girls, a nonprofit founder and homeschool mom that has been forced to learn the unforced rhythms of grace and rest in order to sustain the rigor of work ministry and family, and is committed to teaching other moms the same thing. And today she came on the show to chat with me about how to exchange an overextended life with a Rested One.
So she’s going to talk a little bit about what caused her to reach a point of burnout and her story behind basically how she switched out of that and really decided and declared that she was no longer going to live that life. And she’s also going to talk to us about why it’s so common for so many moms to struggle with rest. I know I have been on a journey the last few years to implement more rest into my life. And I would say over the last six months, especially God has been doing so much heart work with me and healing work really to help me uncover kind of why I had developed such patterns of having an overextended life, working so much, doing so much striving to please everyone I’m striving to get the to-do list, perfectly done, make everyone happy, all the things.
And I was really feeling like I was living in overextended life. My body has been speaking to me for definitely the last year asking me to slow down. And as I told Deanna, during this conversation, it really has been a challenge for me and being that I’m such a strong-willed person, when something is a challenge for me, I do not give up. And I am just like, many of you probably are in process around this, right? I am actively in a healing state where I’m learning to say no to more. I’m learning to look at my calendar and really understand how I can have less on my plate and still feel like I am doing what needs to be done.
And that I am living a life that is not just about, you know, getting all the things done here on earth, but actually a life that is pleasing to God. And that is connected with God, which is very important to me as a woman of faith. So this conversation is definitely very, very faith based. I know not all of our conversations here at Fresh Start Family are, you know, a hundred percent faith based, but Deanna is an incredible woman of God who loves Jesus deeply. And so when you hear her speak today about how to make a rest plan and how to turn things around, if you’re really feeling burnt out, I just actually got a DM today from mama who said she had commented on one of my posts, I think.
And she had said something to the extent of, I had asked like, Hey, on a scale of one to 10, you know, how do you feel with your self care? And she responded, you know, 10 being high. Like I’m a boss. I take good care of myself. I rest often I do things that make me happy. I fill out my own bucket. And then one being like, I am completely empty. I don’t even know what self-care looks like. And even if I did, there’s not enough time, resources, et cetera, to do that. And she responded, I’m a two, I’m honestly not even sure how to take care of myself anymore. And obviously you can tell by her beautiful profile picture, she’s got a few young kiddos right now, but I think that represents what it feels like for so many of us.
So you’ll hear Deanna speak her wisdom around this area and how we can really turn burnout around if you are like me and, you know, have many days where you feel like you are spread too thin and that maybe you are LA you know, come last on your list. It’s like you, Dina is just going to really speak a lot of wisdom and encouragement around how we can intentionally and purposely build in more rest. But she’s amazing. And like I said, she, she has a lot of knowledge. She’s actually, in addition to everything that she does, she’s actually in Bible school to getting a ministry degree on top of, you know, her, her work that she does with being CEO of refresh mom.
And she homeschools both of her kids. And she’s just, she’s just really inspiring, but you’ll hear her definitely speak to how, you know, the Bible tells us we need to rest. And we’re going to talk about why is that so difficult for so many of us to, to listen, to slow down? Like why is there such this cultural belief that the more we do, you know, the more respect that we’ll get, the more perfect we are, the less mistakes we make. You know, I think a lot of us would agree that this is a pain point for us right now. We want to do less. We want to listen. Those of us, especially who happen to be of Christian faith.
We want to, you know, live a scripture, led life. And there’s just this conflict where it feels so dang hard because there’s just so much that we need to do on a day-to-day basis. So I’m so excited for you to listen to this episode. And I know you’re going to love Deanna, just as much as I do. We actually really hit it off. When we first hooked up, when we found each other, I was a guest on her podcast. We talked about strong-willed kids and realized that we both have a very, very, very strong-willed kiddo. And then we each have a loss strong-willed kiddo and yeah, we just really hit it off during that conversation.
And, and now we get to have Deanna on our show to talk about this. So it’s just been a really great exchange and I am just excited for you guys to be blessed by Deanna’s with, and I will say that it’s a great compliment to what we are talking about over on Instagram this month with Fresh Start Family and also inside of our private bonfire support group community, we are studying self control and self regulation. And also self-care because being that it’s mother’s day month, this is again a topic that so many of us struggle with. We might take good care of ourselves around mother’s day, but then the rest of the year, our self care falls to the wayside.
So I love that this conversation is going to support those of us who are really putting intention into our self-care this month. And knowing with confidence that that will help us be more calm, more empathetic, more patient with our kids, be able to feel more confident, be able to follow through with, from kind limits more consistently. It really is all connected when it comes to self-care several use self-regulation and self-control. And like I said, if you are a family of faith, you’re gonna just dig all of this scripture talk and Bible talk. And even if you’re not a family of faith, listen in, because what Deanna’s saying is really, really wise. Even if you’re someone who’s never read the Bible, you know, I believe all, all good things come from God and what you’re going to learn and what you’re going to be inspired to consider during this episode is going to really penetrate your heart again, even if you are not a family of Christian faith.
So without further ado, you guys, help me welcome Deanna to the show. Enjoy this episode.
Stella:
Well, Hey, there, I’m Stella. Welcome to my mom and dad’s podcast, the Fresh Start Family Show. We’re so happy you’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean, Jesus and rock and roll and believe deeply in the true power of loving kindness together. We hope to inspire you to expand your heart, learn new tools and strengthen your family. Enjoy the show.
Wendy:
Well, Hey Deanna, welcome to the show. I’m so happy that you’re here.
Deanna:
I am so happy to be here as well when this is a breath of fresh air in my day to day. So thank you for having me.
Wendy:
Yes. I know you are a busy woman, Deanna, and it just, I just feel humbled and honored to have you joining me today. Listeners, Deanna and I recorded a podcast for her show her podcast just a few weeks ago. And to say we hit it off. I think it’s an understatement.
Deanna:
Definitely an under statement.
Wendy:
Well, we were like, oh my gosh. Did we just become best friends? It was like movie stepbrothers, but we just had so much in common. And I just felt that I was just so blessed by that hour with you, we talked about, we talked about strong-willed kids or discipline on your podcast. I forget. Yeah. I’m excited for everyone to hear that, but you’re just such a light and, and I am so excited to have you pour into our community of listeners today, all about the journey to Exchanging an Overextended Life with a Rested One. And I will tell you, Deanna, I am in massive need of this conversation and your wisdom because you know, the last few years who I think everyone during COVID everyone had their own struggles, right?
I mean just the, the idea of overextending and not resting enough, I think became a lot of people’s norms. But man, I’m just now I’ve been doing God, I should say, has been doing so much beautiful work in my life. The past probably six, eight months specifically, especially to kind of unwind these patterns of perfectionism that I know are rooted in shame has been doing a ton to just clear and weed out shame that’s in my life, but it’s really kind of showed up in the last year or two, especially with overworking, overextending, myself, not honoring my body.
I’ll get, you know, brain fog at the end of the day sometimes. And I’ll still just send that one more customer service email or record one more thing because I just, you know, it’s like this idea of just the overextending and I’ve just become so cognizant of it that I, I started just asking for healing in this area.I want to rest more. I want to lean into receiving just grace and, and you know, and rest and not feeling like I’m always needing to do more and more and more and more and more. But I will tell you, it is a thick habit that I am currently in the season of breaking.
So when I found you and your work, I was just instantly drawn to you and your, your heart and your wisdom in this area is just absolutely incredible. I divinely appointed for sure. So just talk to us about how you got here, Deanna, how did you become a, I mean, you’re, you’re really like arrest expert, right? Like you’re, you’re helping women to, to rest more all the things, but tell us a little bit about your journey, how you got here. How did you become so passionate about this? What are you up to these days? Tell us about how old your kids are. All of the things.
Deanna:
Yeah. Okay. So if, if I could be known as a rest expert, I would take it, but I just such an honor to be, if, if that becomes a thing, I be like, yes, yes. Well done. Good and faithful servant. I would be still happy, especially amongst women and mothers, but yeah, just to share a little bit about my family and our dynamic here, I am married to the Eddie Mason, the third he’s a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful partner. And thank goodness he now remote works. He came home two years ago when most people did and has not returned back.
And I don’t think they’re even going to bring them back because I think they’re trying to lease offices now, at least the offices that they were working out. So I’m thinking, I think he’s home. So it is basically transformed the dynamic of my home. We homeschool. So having him around has, has felt amazing to be a partner with homeschooling our children. My children are older. So I just, I want people to hear this. As I share my story, I have a 16 year old in a 14 year old. They’re about to cross over at the time of this recording to senior year in freshman year, we’re dealing with two very independent, very highly take initiative type of kids that are very well behaved.
Okay. That I say that because I need people to understand context when I share my story because not everybody has that scenario going on, but what I share and what God has for us is applicable to all. And anyway, so how I found myself in this space of a risk consultant, which is I’m self-proclaimed breast consultants. And I don’t know where that title came from because I made it up.
Oh man. And now I feel like we’re in a season for more, for more people like me to send her on this message. But when I was a younger mother, and then when I say younger mother younger and in my age, as well as younger in my children’s age, I had prior understanding of rest of saying no to things in order to make room for the things that matter most, that was not language that was being talked about. At least not where I was hanging out of. It was it wasn’t talking.
It was probably the 40 and 50 something women that have lived some life that you’re probably having those conversations where the twenties, thirties weren’t. Cause when you’re 20 something, 30 something mother, you don’t really have the skillset of respecting the season of motherhood. We tend to at least culturally speaking in America, we tend to create even, okay, let me, let me preface this women like you and me, women who are women that have multiple roles of leadership happening simultaneously, we can find ourselves in a position of resentment towards our season of motherhood because of what it takes to be a good mom.
Yeah. What it takes to manage a home. And so I was that as well as a woman that wanted to work, I was cognizant enough to know that I didn’t have it. I didn’t have the wherewithal to work outside of the home. That became very clear after the birth of my second child. I don’t know. I, I used to say, I don’t know how women do this. I definitely don’t know how to, how single moms do it. Yeah. Because I can’t do this. I can’t pull this off. And so I, I, I learned how to work from home. I, I began to contract my work and freelance and, and was more, more present at home while my children were babies before they were school age and then had the nerve, once they became school age decided to homeschool.
Okay. So that’s probably, that was probably some insanity right now. I’m working for myself. I’ve also have years of a heart for ministry work. And I started my own nonprofit because that’s what people like you and me do. We just start things. Start, we start organizations. I started a nonprofit and that nonprofit became my work and basically got up to working about 40 plus 50 hours a week while still homeschooling my children. It was quite an insane season. I ran innovation for about eight years. So about year five, our work moved into magazine publication.
We decided to publish a magazine. The organization was centered around providing faith support for families. We were called examples, family resources. And we also evolved into supporting mothers of teen girls for some kind of way. I don’t, I can’t, I can’t even remember how we ended up there, but that became a big, huge focus for the organization. And out of that ministry, we began to publish a magazine girls that was eventually picked up and circulated throughout the U S and parts of Canada. And once we became a magazine publisher with orders coming from Barnes and Nobles and the Hastings books and anybody that was selling magazines, we were getting orders from them because we were internationally circulate it.
That’s when things took a very, very significant turn because that machine was not waiting on anybody. It wasn’t a machine that I had control over the production. We were on a schedule. And in order to meet orders in order to be on shelves, we had to keep up with that schedule. So it wasn’t like, oh, we’ll just do that tomorrow. No, it deadlines were hard, hard deadlines in order to get to print. And so I, of course I shouldn’t say of course, because I didn’t do a lot of things that should have been an of course, because I just wasn’t smart enough to do, but I was smart enough to staff, well, the magazine publication side of things. So we got that work in like a final machine in order to get that magazine published and out.
But we had a whole other side of our organization that was not magazine publication. It was still doing workshops and any events and moms groups, and all those things were still happening simultaneously with publishing this magazine. And so, because we spent our resources as far as operating expenses towards staffing the magazine, we had no operating expenses to staff, any other parts. So guess who picked up all the other parts? I picked up all the other parts because that’s what reasonable people do. Right. And so I basically tried to hold that down for it. I wasn’t doing it well, but I held that down plus deciding to homeschool much.
My oldest, once he became of age, I held that down for about two and a half years before I realized I was like months away from a crash and burn. Yeah. And I absolutely, I, I could not fathom. We had just finished up a fiscal year. My children had just finished up a school year. I’m sitting at the table with, at breakfast, with my laptop and my kids. That was my normal, they’re eating breakfast, I’m on the laptop. And I just was, I can’t, I can’t re up another year. I can’t do this another year. I don’t think I can physically or mentally hold this in. That’s when I made the decision that I felt like I had to let the organization go.
And so I contacted my board of directors because we were a non-profit and we were governed by a board and let them know, look, I need a backout plan. I need you guys to. So, cause they all believed in it. It was such a hard thing to say to them, but I’m like, unless you guys can staff me in these other areas, which we knew we didn’t have the money to do. And none of us have fundraising, no one had blood right-hand skills at all. And I was like, I gotta let it go. And they helped me. They gave me like a four to six month plan to back out and I shut the doors. And yeah, I took about three years off of entrepreneurship and working to be present and just, you know, homeschool my kids, home management in basically figuring out what the heck happened because I was at a loss at how I got there.
I didn’t even know how I got there. And I was pretty much done with working for myself. I was like, that life has gone. I’m not doing that anymore. I didn’t like how I felt. I didn’t like how present I was with, for my entire family and my extended family. I was never available for anything and all that. And I definitely wasn’t spending time with God knowing that that was important. And that just, that was compromised very quickly. I’m like, that’s, there’s no time to get up and pray. There’s no time for reading the Bible. There’s I gotta work. I gotta do God’s work. I can’t spend time with there. He expect that. And, but in that time that I now call sabbatical, God dealt with my heart around rest and started teaching me.
I don’t, I didn’t know what I know today, but he started teaching me how to take care of myself physically and mentally, emotionally. And once I got those rhythms going for myself and definitely spiritually, you know, prioritizing my spiritual walk with them and nurturing my faith. He started nudging me back into ministry, work and entrepreneurship. I was like, yeah, no, I don’t want any parts of this. This was about 2017. At this point. I didn’t want to do it. I was terrified. He didn’t let it go. He kept, it just kept rising up, but it was time to step back in. And so I, I call myself making a deal with them.
I’m like, if you’re wanting me to do this I need you to help me not compromise. What hard work I’ve put into my care in, you know, my parenting and you know, the things that needed me. I don’t want to lose those things again. So I need you to help me. And I want you to help me help other moms that you were calling to do. You’re obviously a color of moms into ministry. So there’s other women out there that you’re talking to like this or other women that you’ve, you’ve already talked to you and they’re burning out. Like I did help me help them do the same thing.
And that’s where my comp part and that’s where refresh moms started.
Wendy:
Oh my gosh, listening to this story. It’s like, I love how God works through emotions. And I know we have discovered we’re both very emotional, wonderfully blessed emotional people. And we have strong-willed kids. We’re best friends now, but the emotion is just stirring in my heart and my stomach. And I, as I listened to that story, I just want to sob, like I just was, if you were here, I would just be like sobbing into you because it’s just, I can relate so much. Like, I’m just feel like I’m a little bit in that season of like, man, how did I get here? Like, I love what I do.
I’m so passionate about it. And when you say, you know, I got to go do God’s work. Like I really believe that God is working through this organization. And I mean, my students means so much to me, the programs we’ve created this podcast. Like, I just love what I do, but oh my gosh, how did I get to a place where I am so tired every day? And the juggle is like, it feels like around every corner, it was like, okay, we’re just going to get this new program built or, you know, hire one more staff member. And it’s like, I bet I’m going to be able to rest that I’m going to be able to arrest. And it’s like, oh my gosh, I just, that like, I, that idea of like, I don’t have time for God.
Like I’m doing God’s work. And I just wrestle with that and I’m like, God, why is it so hard for me to slow down? Why am I keep getting hung up on like, you know, or I’ll say this afternoon, I’m gonna take, take a rest and meditate and prayer, pray for just 20 minutes. And then I’ll push myself and I’ll push myself. And then all of a sudden it’s time to get the kids and they got to get to sports and then it’s time for dinner. And it’s just like, wow, how did I end up on this, this hamster wheel Danna. So it’s like to, to hear your wisdom about this is just so meaningful for me today. And I love what you said about, you know, a lot of us type a women.
Like we have high regards for every area of our life and we want to do it all really, really well. And when you’re doing so much, it’s just all of a sudden, you start to feel like a failure everywhere. You’re like what I’m doing so much, but how you feel like you’re just, you’re not, you’re not giving anything your all, or everything, you’re all. So then you end up feeling like a failure and it’s just a weird cycle. So I’m sure if I feel like this right now, no matter if these women who are listening, you know, are working in addition to their home and, and parenthood stuff going on, or whether they’re just full time with their kids and, and doing all that.
Like, I just know there’s going to be so many people that have got to be able to, to feel the same feeling of like, why do I feel like I’m threat, I’m spread so thin. Why, how did I get to this place where it feels like I don’t have time for myself. It’s hard to squeeze in time for God. There’s so much to do from the second I wake up from the second I go down, there’s stuff to do. There’s places to people to help there’s children. Like, so talk to me about why, why do we struggle with this so much? Like why do, why do you think moms struggle with this? What is this? Besides the damn enemy.
Deanna:
Yeah, you’re right. If it is tactic of the enemy, it is one of his, his tools that I think he loves to use with women and with mothers. Well, first of all, yeah, part of the problem is we are spread too thin. That’s not, I’m not gonna act like that’s not a problem. No, we are. We’re spread too thin. Some of the things that I think contribute to that lifestyle is cultural for us here in America. You’re in America. Are you? I always forget. You’re you’re here in America. Yeah. Cause I talked to a lot of women in Canada.
Wendy:
We have listeners all over the world.
Deanna:
Okay. So I’m going to, I’m going to talk through to the, through from the perspective of being a woman here in this country, we live in a country that has been for years on the trajectory of doing more and more and more and more and more, the more you can get done, the more esteemed and valued you are. You are rewarded for high productivity financially, as well as accolades. Women have been invited more to this career party, but not unfortunately in a way that makes room for motherhood.
We are expected to work. Like we don’t have kids and we’re expected to raise kids as if we don’t work. That’s just a cultural expectation unless you happen to work for someone that, or for a company that is very sensitive to the equity that is necessary for women and mothers to succeed at work. It’s, it’s, it’s a trend that’s happening, but it’s still, it’s not across this whole country. And so culturally speaking, I think we have been, it has been perpetuated just because of where we live, which now speaks to those of us that are Christ followers, the need to change residencies.
Our citizenship has to change. We have to switch from what is cultural culturally relevant to our lives, to what is divinely relevant to our lives. And the rest that is spoken about biblically definitely starts with a heart posture. It has nothing to do with how many hours you sleep. It has nothing to do with taking things off to-do list. It really doesn’t because you can be restful and get a whole lot done. If the things that you’re getting done, are there things that he has asked of you to do? It’s not about how much you get done.
It’s doing the things that are actually required and necessary and nothing matters, but his perspective and what he is instructing us to do, whether you’re a mom that’s full time, or whether you are a mom, that’s a ministry leader. Whether you are a mom that is career plus, you know, fill in all the blanks. It doesn’t matter. It’s not about I’m a working mom. I’m going to stay at home. It’s nothing about that because stay at home. Moms can overextend themselves just as much as career moms is it has nothing to do with how your mommy or how you’re showing up in your life season has everything to do with your posture. And we’ve got to exchange what is culturally expected to what is the violently expected?
And his expectations are different and there’s a rhythm too big, a Christ follower. He approaches life differently. He approaches work differently. The Bible defines work differently depending on where it’s appearing in scripture. There is a work that is toil, which we’re all familiar with because toil leads to that exhaustion. And then there is work that is in partnership with the father, which does not lead to exhaustion, but does require rest.
Wendy:
Right?
Deanna:
And learning to decipher between the two is what we would all benefit in spending time with God around because he does want to weigh in on what ends up on our list of to-dos to get done. So just to answer that question, I think we’ll get into more of it as we continue this conversation. But culturally speaking, we’ve been deceived into a lifestyle that puts us all on a trajectory to burn out. It just, it just is what it is. That’s what American culture does. And I’m sure we’re not alone. And then secondly, learning to change our citizenship to okay, if this is what human standards expect, if this is what I am awarded for or rewarded for in my human citizenship, in my human existence, does that align with what I’m awarded for in Jesus’s perspective and nine times out of 10, that’s going to be a no, there are different things he is looking for that have zero to do what the world is looking for and learning to trust that his, the things he’s looking for, have the power and authority to speak and provide for your entire life over what you think your hands need to be doing is something that we all have to submit in prayer and in our walk with God to figure out what those things are.
Wendy:
Well, hello listeners. I’m going to pause this very beautiful conversation to tell you just a little bit more about the new free, fresh start family learning guide and worksheet that I’ve created for you. It’s all about empathy, specifically, how to use empathy, to build connection and cooperation in your home. And let me tell you guys, this is powerful. I teach you 10, really easy to kind of memorize and remember empathy statements that will really benefit you in your parent child relationship. And I always try to teach you guys that at the end of the day, you know, I can teach you all the strategies, all the methods, all the tools inside of the foundations course and at the bond pair support program, but really parents at the end of the day, it is your relationship with your child that is going to get you the farthest.
So to speak with how well your children listen and cooperate and respect to you. So when you’re able to actually have true, authentic empathy for your kids, even when they’re pushing back, even when they’ve made mistakes, even when they’re maybe acting in a way that triggers you, you are going to find that your relationship is strengthened and you feel more calm and confident as a parent, even when you need to set firm kind boundaries. So I want you to go grab your free copy of the new empathy guide. Now you can head on over to fresh start family, online.com forward slash empathy. It’s a really easy five to seven minute read.
It’s just a downloadable PDF. And I know that you are going to be, you know, walking away, just feeling more empowered, creative, and excited to really use these empathy statements, to connect with your child. All right, head on over now, freshstartfamilyonline.com/empathy. Or actually go ahead and just download it after this episode, because this episode is too good to leave. Right. But when you’re done this episode, make sure you go grab that free guide and let’s continue listening.
Yes. So good. And I love all of that, like that submission part, right?
Of just declaring his power over like the power of the temptation of all these things that feel like it’s coming at you all day long and you have all these things that need to get done or that you need to say yes to. And what I’ve been enjoying, just looking at too, is, is the relationship between perfectionism and that shame that a lot of us feel if, if we don’t get it all done, if we let someone down, if we finish a project, you know, or close the laptop or, you know, and then we feel like it’s not perfectly done.
Right. I feel like there’s a lot of, of, I don’t know. I mean, I do think I know, or a lot of the shame comes from around that, but it’s really tied to that perfectionism a lot of times, in my opinion, where if you just get everything done perfectly, even if it means not putting God first putting your body second, then you won’t have any shame because there’s no chance for mistakes. There’s no chance for being less than like there’s no, but then it also comes into like mixes in like this pride, right? Like I’m an Enneagram two wing, three of like the pride gets in my way sometimes of like, you know, I’ve been trying to just put out imperfect work sometime and be fine with it.
Like if there’s an error or something in a podcast episode or a, you know, or, or blog post or something, instead of deleting it and redoing it and taking an extra 20 minutes away from my family or that I could be taken a prayer walk with God, to just letting it go and not having my value be based in how much I get done and also the amount it’s perfect. Right. But it’s such a, it’s such a spiritual journey to go on that like healing track of like, well, what is, if I’m not perfect if I’m, or even if I make mistakes, what does that mean about me and realigning that truth with like, well, here’s what God thinks about you, not what culture thinks about you.
If you have an imperfect, you know, attempt, or if you don’t make, if you don’t volunteer for that event, or if you go to bed early, when your husband needs to put the kids down to bed or whatever, I’ve just been enjoying kind of looking at those things. I don’t know if you see any relation at all with everything
Deanna:
Definitely. Okay, well, as a perfectionist, as someone that struggles with perfectionist and performance orientation, all of that, I relate to, I completely understand. Now we can be, we can peel back that onion on the roots of it personally, you know, for the rest of this podcast, if we wanted to. But what it really does boil down to spiritually is we, we think we are in control when we’re not.
Wendy:
Yes.
Deanna:
For some reason we feel like our hands have to be doing it in our hands to do it a certain way as if God can’t breathe on imperfect work. I, I have talked about, and I’m sure I’ve it not probably as a topic, but I’m sure it has come up in different podcasts conversations of getting real good at doing BC work. Like if you’re grading it ABCD, just getting real comfortable with doing BC work, trusting that God is the guy can add the a where it needs to be just releasing yourself from perfectionism and in a, in a usually self-imposed there, it’s like, it’s usually not somebody asking for a level of that that could happen.
Like I’ve had a client or no, I can’t say a client or two. I’ve had a client that expects perfection and I don’t roll like that. Look, I do great work, excellent work, but I am a human. You will make room for human error cause you ain’t gonna work with nobody if you don’t. But you know, we tend to think that things need to be a lot more perfect than they actually need to be. And that’s where the relationship of trusting God comes in. Now I could back up that trust also to, you know, is the activity that you’re trying to perfect.
Even something he’s asked or required of you. That’s something, you know, if he’s told you to do it, you’ve got to trust that you’re equipped to do it and know that he is not even asking perfect. He’s asking for obedience and doing it, whatever the world that have come to Austin, thinking it needs to be a certain way. Now we’re not talking to a sloppy work. We’re not talking about not being faithful to the work like I’m in school right now. And I asked my, the people that great, my work, I said, just record the grade, but don’t tell me what the grade is. Because if you start putting a grade on my work, I’m going to be working to get an a I’m in Bible school. I got to preface this.
Okay. I mean, Bible school and the intention is not for any type of certification or degree at the end. At least for me, I just want to study the Bible. That is the whole reason why I’m there. I want to study the Bible and this is the tool that I’m using to set aside a season of Bible study. And if they start putting a grade on my Bible study, I am fearful that that’s going to infiltrate my ability to study the Bible. And I’m going to now look for perfection. And I’m like, I’m going to miss the whole point of this whole season. And they have honored that they have honored, like just pass, fail Hawk, just pass, just pass, fail. I mean, go ahead and record it for what you need.
Just don’t tell me what that grade is. Now. If I fail, tell me why I fail. If I’m making mistakes, tell me what needs to be corrected. Just don’t give me a great yes, because I know me, I’m going to try to cross over into controlling and greatness instead of journeying with Jesus. And I think we can look at that across all of the things that we’re doing, especially if our hands are in ministry work. I mean, what’s the point. What’s the point. If we it’s in our control, what’s the point, right? I have a nonprofit organization and I’ve been trying try and try it. Cause I’m, I’ve been learning about fundraising and we’ve had some fundraisers. And so part of making sure money keeps coming in is you’ve gotta keep raising funds.
Right? And part of the goal of this year was to have like monthly, small fundraisers and then have two larger fundraisers throughout the year in the hope is that with all of those put together, we will have what we need to fund our programming. And I started school and I can’t get, I can’t get these monthly pushes done for the life of me. I can’t get it done. And so my brain is like, golly, if I don’t, this is my human thought. Yeah. If I don’t get this done, we won’t have money. And if we don’t have money, our work won’t get done. That is the human train of thought.
And Jesus is over here saying, but I am the God who provides, who says, I need a fundraiser to provide what you need and who sent money is what you need. And it’s like trusting that, okay. My time is not allowing for this thing. That in my brain is necessary to get done my business brain and my non-profit executive director brain. The one that has to lead all of this to happen, if it’s going to happen in an organization says, well, we’ve got to have a fundraising plan and we’ve got to have things in place to execute it. Now I believe that in my natural brain, but I can’t, I don’t have time to do that right now. Yep. And then what Jesus ministers to my heart is, can you just do the work that I’ve asked you to do?
Can you be obedient to do just the work that I’ve asked you to do this season and not look at financial provision as my only way of taking care of the organization or the people that you desire to serve. And that takes a level of taking your hands off of things and say, I’m not in control, but what I will be is obedient. I am, I’m not uncontrollable what I will be as faithful. And you can do that across the board that with your children, with volunteerism, you know, well, I wish I was more available to fill in the blank or my church churches asking for childcare workers on Sunday.
I dropped my children off on Sunday. Therefore I think I should volunteer because I benefit from childcare. That is natural human logic. Now I’m not saying to do it or not do it, but I am saying you doing it out of disobedience because number one keeps somebody else who’s trying to obey from doing it. All right. And number two, there’s something else that maybe God is requiring of you in this season that doesn’t include childcare and it may not be volunteerism.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Deanna:
But we’ll let, what are they going to think of me? What are, you know, what are people going to say? I’m going to be judged. We would rather say face with men, not men and gender, but men are human then will be obedient. Right. The father. And I’m not saying that’s an easy thing to do, even though when you’re talking about suffering a persecution, it really ain’t that bad folks. All right. They’re That bad? I’m sure Paul can tell us. I can tell you about some persecution folks. That’s not really hardcore being uncomfortable about somebody possibly judging you for not working in the children’s ministry, but it is a form of suffering and persecution.
All right. And Jesus is like can you obey me? So anyway, all, all of that, I don’t know how that ties in for you into this question about perfectionism and trying to get things right. But in my brain, it’s like the problem is we are trying to control something that God is asking for the reins back.
Wendy:
Yes. And, you know, talk to me a little bit about how, oh, I mean, I assume, but tell me, tell me more about this. But I assume when, like there takes such a big audience to rest, which is so weird to me, Deanna, because we’re all exhausted. We’re all exhausted. All I want to do is sit down and read a scripture and rest or, I mean, rest sounds amazing. You would think it would be the easiest thing to obey and just sit and spend time surrendering everything to God. But it’s like this, this addiction to go, go going.
So how, I mean, I love, I love the idea of more of this, right? Of like just, and so much of what I teach students and parents and families is this is this mindset piece, right? To like become aware where you’re engaging in the cultural, systematic mindsets and thought patterns that are not of God’s way are not working for you in your own family. And just to become aware first and then diligently switch and let them pass and not engage with them. And just kind of, you know, in this conversation, allow Jesus to come in and, and listen and hear those thoughts and take those thoughts on as our defining.
Right. But how do we, like, how do you recommend designing when we’re not used to resting much? And we, we feel like we’re on the hamster wheel and we feel like I’m for me, this isn’t new. It’s so fascinating, Deanna, because I can remember when the kids were really little and before I was really working a lot of hours on Fresh Start Family, I would, you know, and this is common with young parents or parents with young kids is you get to the end of the day and you feel like you’ve done nothing. Like you’re worthless. Like you’ve probably changed 27 diapers. You’ve had thousands of moments of grace and kindness and discipline and like, you know, providing for these little mini humans and just all these things.
But at the end of the day, you’re like, well, I didn’t get anything done, nothing. Right? Like when you’re on that hamster wheel and you’re like, what do you recommend to like switch into this designing arrest plan or getting to that point where we’re listening more and talking less like the chatter in our brain, not listening to it and actually resting,
Deanna:
Oh, well you got to, first of all, decide that it’s needed and important. Okay. I can’t talk anybody into this. It it’s like, you gotta be, the fruit has to be ready.
Wendy:
Yep.
Deanna:
You gotta be ready to harvest. If you’re wanting to rest. If somebody, this sounds impossible by law, you know, that’s fine. That might be where you are today. I’m not, but for the people that are like, I need this, I don’t know how that’s who I want to talk to right now. Like, I’ve already realized this. I just don’t know how to insert this. The first place that I’m going to direct you in this. And when people hear this, I know it sounds simple. In many circles, it may be cliche and not taken seriously. I want you to hear my heart because I’m so serious. When I say this, it starts with you getting with Jesus.
Just tell him what you need. Yep. Just tell him, I believe you want me to rest. I have zero clue how to do it. Will you help me? And he will, whether it’s through a resource or through an encouragement or through the holy spirit, spirit speaking to your heart, he will begin to guide you. And the reason why I know this, because that’s what he did for me. I didn’t know how I knew I needed it. And he showed me how. And he still shows me how he still is revealing rest to me, me.
Yeah, I’m busy, but this is something new for me within the past. I’ll say 18 months of my existence. I’m busy doing the things that I think he’s told me to be busy. Doing nice is completely different than being busy. I have deemed important, right? There are certain things that he has told me is really important. And those are the things that you make room for. He didn’t say and do them perfectly. He just said, those are the things I want you to make room for it. As you’re making room for it. I’m still journey with you. As you make mistakes, as you are, you know, are not faithful here.
I’m still there. But these are the things that I’m asking for you to do. And those are the things that I’ve. I only have room in space in my life to do those things. And it has zero to do about how much my plate can hold. It has everything to do about me being obedient to what I think he’s asked me to do. And within that obedience, I insert his rhythm of work and rest. Okay. So number one, I said, you just have, if you just have a heart’s desire for it, just start with prayer and telling God, this is what I want. This is what I need, I think is important. The second thing is the Bible is really kind and generous in teaching us his rhythm of rest.
And you all are that our, that our followers are not unfamiliar with the concept of six days on one day rest. You’re not unfamiliar with it. If you read Genesis one, anytime in your life or her watch the VeggieTales or watch, you know, whatever it is, you’re familiar with the creation story. And I will not get really deep into the theology behind seven and all those things. But to nutshell it, he created a rhythm of six days of work in the seventh day of rest. Now I do also believe is really important that those six days of work encompass the work he’s asking of you, the work that you are doing in partnership with them, not the work that you’re doing in toil.
Okay? Yep. So six days of work in partnership with Jesus seventh day is a day of rest. Are we resting? Just because it’s a day off? No, there’s certain things that are happening on that seventh day of rest. First of all, it is designed to be a reorientation reset type of phenomena. You can see this throughout the history of the Jewish community. This was, you know, they had the seventh day, they had the seventh year, they had the 49th year. They had these things around seven that were all about the restoration in the reorientation, in the, this virus, they were serious and they were culturally attacked by, they didn’t keep it up.
It was instructed. And okay, let me just, let me just, let me put this into some perspective for you. So can you imagine America shutting down every seven days or every six days are every seven days? However, I don’t know how, you know, they’ve worked seven days, the whole country shuts down. Can you imagine on the seventh year, forgiving bets, not working the land, you know, can you imagine th th that I don’t think that would ever happen in our country, even if they were believers.
I don’t think it would ever happen. You know, eventually the ways of the world one and those rhythms were, were compromised by many. So if this is not a new phenomena of resistance, cultural resistance to a divine rhythm,
Wendy:
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All right, let’s get back to the episode.
Deanna:
Let me just talk about the weekly rhythm. The Bible gives us instructions on that rhythm, and I was telling you what’s happening on the day on this, on the day of, okay. So there is a reorientation, there’s a reset happening or refreshment that’s happening. There’s also a reconnection with the father. This is a day for you to spend time as slow as you want to just talk to God about the things of the week. Just this is what happened with the kids. This is what happened with my husband. And this is something that we’re believing God for. This is what happened with my friend, you know, and just, it’s an opportunity to have a container to just slowly commune about your week.
It’s also an opportunity to give gratitude and thankfulness about the week. And I mean, who wouldn’t want that full interruption, who wouldn’t create an opportunity to have space where I know when that day comes, I’m going to be able to sit and talk to God about this thing. That’s been bugging me about my son all week. I’m going to be able to sit in inner, see from my friend, who’s fighting cancer. I’m going to be able to sit and just recount of the hand of God, that was clear on my life or my child’s life or whatever throughout the week, how God the violin provided for us.
It’s just an opportunity to give things. And then of course, just those activities themselves have the qualities within them to refresh you. First of all right, but it is, this is also an opportunity to connect with family, to commune over a meal, to get down on a floor and play Lego’s with your kid to take a walk around the neighborhood, to like my daughter was in the car with me today in a few, a couple months ago, I took her away to the mountains and I let her ask me anything. She wanted to ask me about sex, anything everything’s off the table, my history, anything that she’d been wondering, all of it.
And we just spent the weekend, I just let her, we went for it. And she just, that was just such a blessing for her. And before we left the mountains, she was like, can we keep this going? Can we keep having these conversations? I said, yes, absolutely. And so we’re in the car, I’m coming home from school today. And she was like, mommy, remember when you said we can keep those conversations going. She said, I’m ready for another one. So guess what I get to do I get to put, I know I have a Sabbath. I can tell her we’re going to talk about this on Sunday, which right now it’s Sunday. It used to be Saturday, but school has interrupted my rhythm because I got homework that’s due every Sunday. So Saturday is spent doing homework in order to turn it in.
So Sunday is now my Sabbath rest day, but I get, I don’t, there’s nothing planned on that day. Besides my Sabbath, I have a container to be like, Hey, let’s go have a picnic. And let’s just talk. It’s a gift. It’s a gift To interrupt the busy, you know? So to start, I know that was a long answer. You know, I talk a lot to start is just tell God what you want in journey with him in moving towards his ideas about rest in your life, in order for you to implement them.
Wendy:
Oh, I love that. And it’s like, once, once we slowed down, you know, it’s like, we Can, I, I believe it becomes so easier to hear him, right? Like, I think a lot of us will say, oh my gosh, I just, it’s hard to, it’s hard to hear God, it’s hard to hear it, but it’s because when you’re moving so fast and you’ve got so much going on and like in this day and age with the multitasking, right? Like even just the development of the iPhone and just, there are days when I’m like, I just don’t want to be reached. I don’t want like member when we just had a house phone. And if you needed to get ahold of somebody, that’s the only place you could get ahold of them.
Now. It’s like, it’s just, my mind feels like, man, it is it, you, you just like have to declare and go for it to make these sabbatical days really restful because it’s, there’s a lot of opportunity for things to intervene. You know? So like when I think about Sunday and Monday, like, and what I was going to say is, it’s interesting. Cause it, as I slowed down this year, I’ve been slowing down a little bit. It’s felt so good. You know, just to, like I said, God’s been working and knitting my heart this year, but I’ve heard, I hear, I’ve heard him whispering for awhile. It’s like, Hey, Monday can be a day where nothing is on your calendar, right?
Like no meetings, no, nothing like take it slow. Like, because Sunday, often is like, there’s so much going on with church and family and meal planning for the week and all the things that it feels like it’s often, by the time I get to Monday, I always joke that I, I need a vacation from the weekend. So like, when you say it’s Sunday and you’re, that’s your day, like how do you still have it be a restful day when there’s a lot going on?
Deanna:
Yeah. Okay. First of all, I’ve been doing this for a minute. So that’s really important when this was becoming a rhythm, I had to learn how to create it. And then once it was created how to fiercely protect it. Okay. To the point now that people that know me understand that Deanna in the Mason family Sabbaths. So now it’s part of our identity and people don’t mess with it because you know, people that are close to us understand that’s what’s going on. So they, they, they make room for it and they honor it and you respect it.
So they’re not expecting us to pick up phones and all that kind of stuff. Even though my extended family has access to me, but nobody else does, unless I do something I want to give them. So, but I had to, I had to work up to that now, golly, I, I have the I’m in the midst of creating a Sabbath course that deals with preparation and chores and where to put, you know, how do you put the things that are going to come for your rest? Where do you put them in order for it to be restful? It’s coming. Y’all just stay in my world. It’s coming. I’m telling you I’m I’m, I’m actually going to start teaching it in may. I’m just going to teach it live one, one lesson at a time, because if I wait to record it, ain’t gonna never get done.
Wendy:
Some of my favorite courses I’ve ever done are recorded like that.
Deanna:
Yep. Cause that’s the season I’m in and it’s just going to have to be that because I keep putting it off because I don’t have a window of time to record. But anyway, so it gives yourself the time to, first of all, understand the rhythm that you want. And then how do you work up to protecting that once you’ve declared it and you’ll figure those things out, you’ll figure out how to disconnect from your phone, because it really is. You’re gonna have to disconnect from your phone. You don’t want to be distracted by your phone that you got to disconnect from your phone, which usually means you got to back that up to figure out what needs to happen the day before, in order for me to put my phone down on everything is prepped. You know, like the Jewish community has this rhythm of this mad dash before sunset on Friday to get the food, get the meals done, get seriously preparing because they know ain’t nothing happening.
The after sundown until six o’clock until send out the next day is shut down.
Wendy:
No cars, light switches, they’re all done.
Deanna:
It gets done for those that still practice. And we, you know, we don’t, we definitely don’t have to get to a point of legalism around it. Please understand that Jesus is Lord over to Sabbath, which means there is no legal approach to this still for your good though. And so just identifying, like you said, this is what’s happening on the days that I currently, like, if I wanted to take a Sabbath on this day, this day is currently earmarked for this, right? So you’re going to slowly start finding other places in your week in your schedule, not even okay.
Oh, there’s this three step process that I’m going to try to go through real quick. So I’m trying not to talk too long on this episode, but there’s this principle that I teach to help women back out of burnout. And the first one is, is identifying the things that have to get done. That’s the first step. What are you, what are you saying has to get done? You know, and things that could be you’re stuck for work. And that could be stuff for home. Whatever I got to make this doctor’s appointment, I got to get groceries. I got to, you know, take the dog to the groomer or whatever those things are. What are the things I have to get done? And then, you know, just identify what those are in the second level is out of those things that have to get done, which ones do you not have to be?
The one doing what can be delegated and shared and carry about other people bring it, you know? And I got, like I said, I got kids taller than me and my house. I got big kids that can be, I can delegate to them things that I used to not think I had helped with. All right. Now, if you’re like where my kid is too, I don’t have a there’s there’s still other things that can be delegated and taken off your plate. You’re just gonna have to dirty what Jesus is on, what that looks like for you, because it’s very organic to your season. All right. But my husband, you know, just bringing him in, like before I started school, I sat down with the entire family.
I like, look, this is a 50 hour a week commitment. You guys, I am not going to be as available as you used to be. I cannot keep all the balls in the air without your help. And we just, I said, I don’t know what it’s going to feel like until I get there, but these are the things I anticipate needing help with. You know, I just need everybody to sign off and say, yes, we’re in, you know, those that are type of family meetings that need to be happening. It’s like, look, I need this. I started Sabbath before my husband did. And so I had to communicate to him what I needed in order for me to honor the Sabbath and he was willing to do it. Now it took him two months to get used to me not being available the same way that he was used to me being available in that day.
You know, it was still tough schedule because I homeschooled. And so one of the things I asked him to do was to be the primary parent on my Sabbath. Can the kids come to you? If they need something I’m not tapping out, but can you be the first line of defense for kids, right. I’m available. But just, can you, like, if you see them heading towards the door and my door’s closed, can you tackle them and figure out what they mean? So he agreed to it a minute to realize what he agreed to, because he’d be like, Hey, he would make plans on Saturdays to be out of the house. And so I would challenge them with lovingly challenged him and be like, so what’s your childcare plan? And he would look at me like, I need a childcare plan.
I say, guess what I need whenever I got to the dentist and I got to go to the doctor and I got to do things, these kids are with me 24 7. Guess what I got to have that got to have, there’s two things that’s happening. It was three things. That’s happening either. They’re coming with me either. I have childcare or I cancel. Those are the three options. Yeah. You have those same options and you have to now weigh, what’s more important. And sometimes that meant he didn’t go. Sometimes that meant he never got childcare. So either he didn’t go or they went with him. Yeah. But he had to learn that on Saturdays. This is what I have to do if I want to do things outside of the house, because Deanna is not available.
Right. So, and that wasn’t a source of tension for us. That was communication based off of what I was saying. I need it. So anyway, the preparation, the conversations, oh, I didn’t get to the third one. This is really important. So you identify the things that need to get done. You figure out from that list, what you don’t have to do. Grocery shopping doesn’t mean you have to be the one grocery shopping groceries needs to get got, but I don’t have to be the one to get them that type of thing. And then the third one is surrender. What I going to get done? You got to surrender the things that are just get touched.
Wendy:
That’s a hard one for me.
I stopped saying hard. I stopped saying hard a few week, a few years ago, you know, I don’t say hard anymore. I took it out of my language. I was like, I’m not saying hard. That is the new one that I continue to be on a journey to handle the uncomfortableness of is the, the surrender. But This conversation Deanna has just encouraged me so much and inspired me. And I just, I just needed to hear all this and this, this loving challenge to put God first and surrender and obey. And it’s just, it’s just been so good for me. Thank you so much for sharing all of this beautiful wisdom.
And I hear just such a, a sense of, You know, if we can just stay curious and in that state of trusting that God’s gonna show us the way, if we can just remember to ask and be present and listen and obey, but just like, I just have this set, this tone or this sense of expectation of delivery. Right. Of, of that. We don’t have to do this alone that we don’t have to have all the answers because my mind just goes nuts with like, I mean, I can just, as I listen to you talking, I’m just so in, in spired and at the same time the scarcity thoughts are like, oh, well that’s impossible.
And I’m like, oh, well, Monday nights I could, I could do this. And then right away, it’s the attack of like, no, that’s not going to work. It does no, this it’s impossible. It’s impossible. And just staying in that space of like, all right, God, look at this. Look at these thoughts. Like I going to continue to lean on you to clear them out too, just in Jesus’ name, declare the enemy has power over my mind. We together with God can do anything. We set our hearts and desires on nothing is impossible. And just the reward from this. It’s like, I’ve, I feel like I, in this season of my life, I am not craving anything more than this.
And the fact that it’s such a journey is just so interesting. And there’s always like, there’s always growth, right? Like, no matter I feel like we’ll be 95 years old. Hopefully we, all, my goal is a hundred. I feel like when we’re 95 years old, there’s going to be something that God’s working on that we’re going to be working on. Right? Like we’re always learning. We’re always growing. And for me, this is a big one in this season of my life right now. So thank you for dedicating so much of your heart to this work. Thank you for going before me all those years ago and having such an act of surrender that shows me what is possible.
It’s, it’s just, it’s just such a joy to get to know you and, and listeners telling you Deanna’s awesome. Go find her work. So tell us, tell the listeners where they can find out more. If they want to do this, this class. I’m not sure exactly when this episode will air, but if they want to get in to more of you, where can they find you all that good stuff?
Deanna:
Yeah. A great place to start. I have a free mini course called make a rest plan. And what that’ll introduce you to is this concept of the seven different ways we as humans enjoy rest. This is not a concept that I’ve created. This is something that has been studied by a woman called, called, named Dr. Sondra Dalton Smith. She wrote a book called sacred rest. When she goes through all seven of these, my mini course is like a little bite size nuggets of those seven ways. So you can start there. There’s also a quiz that you can take. It’s called the rest needs quiz, which will highlight wherever deficits are being expressed by you based off of your answers on that quiz, which will let you know which one of those seven areas of risks you probably need to start with.
So I invite you to do that deannamason.com/makearestplan. I’m sure it’s in the show notes, but, and I want to say one little thing to you. This is just for Wendy and anybody else that benefits from it. And you know, it’s for you too, but you don’t have to have it figured out that’s you absolutely don’t have to know the answer to how it’s going to look. You just have to have a heart that’s willing to surrender. It is impossible. The way your life is set up right now and your schedule, it is impossible. I’m already letting you know, no, not you’re not going to do this plus everything you’re doing. Okay. You need to hear this. You’re not going to add this to your life without stuff falling off, but he’s going to tell you when he’s to fall off, he’s going to tell you what needs to be pushed to the next week.
He’s going to curate the life that you’re looking for. Step-by-step and just allow him to do it. You’re going to be amazed in another 90 days about the things that felt so important today that do not seem relevant anymore. And that’s the kind of God we serve. He’s going to do that for you. But all he needs is that position of a surrendered heart.
Wendy:
My gosh, I knew you’d have be crying at some point in this episode, Deanna. So, whoa. Those are tears of joy. I receive that, you know, that beautiful just wishes for me. And I just, I thank you so much. So I cannot wait to go check out those free resources. I’m taking that quiz. I can’t wait. It’s going to be like red alert going off. Alert, alert. You need rest. You need rest here, here, here. And I’m going to go. I’m going to do that free course too. So thank you so much. It’s just been such a joy to have you and our listeners go find Deanna and download her, her amazing free resources for you today.
For links and more info about everything we talked about in today’s episode had to freshstartfamilyonline.com/128.
Stella:
For more information, go to freshstartfamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening. Families have a great day.
Wendy:
Well, Hey there families. I hope you loved this episode as much as I loved recording it for you. Don’t forget to grab your free Fresh Start Family learning guide, how to use empathy to build connection and cooperation in your home. Head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/empathy to grab your copy now.
