On this episode of The Fresh Start Family Show, Wendy is joined by Alyssa Blask Campbell, who is the CEO of Seed and Sew (parent education company), host of the Voices of Your Village podcast, and co-author of the book Tiny Humans, Big Emotions: How to Navigate Tantrums, Meltdowns, and Defiance to Raise Emotionally Intelligent Children.
Alyssa’s wisdom on emotional literacy is what has allowed her to teach in 100 countries across the globe. She and Wendy chat about the many ways we can support ourselves and our children’s emotional literacy development journey.
Tune in to hear Wendy & Alyssa discuss
1. the difference between sensory and emotional regulation
2. how to build skills for regulation and coping
3. what/when emotion processing happens
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Episode Highlights:
- We can’t have emotional regulation without sensory regulation
- There are 8 sensory systems
- When our kiddo is having a meltdown and they are in their primal brain / reactive state, focus on sensory regulation first
- Model self regulation techniques to help with co-regulate and engaging mirror neurons
- Learning our kids’ unique sensory preferences will help us respond to them in a way that is helpful in a triggered moment
- Some kids are emotionally sensitive, some are sensory sensitive, and some are BOTH!
- We can narrate body cues we feel to help our kids become aware of what they’re feeling and learn how to self-regulate
- There are so many ministones that lead up to big milestones
Resources Mentioned:
Where to find Alyssa:
Website https://www.seedandsew.org/
Voices of Your Village Podcast
Get Your Copy of Alyssa’s New Book Tiny Humans, Big Emotions: How to Navigate Tantrums, Meltdowns, and Defiance to Raise Emotionally Intelligent Children
Wendy’s episode on Voices of Your Village on Compassionate Discipline
Not able to listen or want to read along with us?
Here is the episode transcript!
Wendy:
Hello listeners, I’m so happy that you’re back for a new episode. I’m your host, Wendy Snyder positive parenting educator and family life coach. And today on the show we have Miss Alyssa Blask Campbell from Seed and Sew, and she came on the show to talk to us about how we can understand and build emotional regulation in our homes with our kids and also within ourselves as parents. And I. Am so excited for you guys to hear this episode. This was a beautiful conversation I had with Alyssa and she is just one of the most wisest, And I, think relatable, yet just brilliant educators in the space of parent education.
And, I, just really, really love what she’s doing in the world. There was a moment in our conversation where I just stopped And I think, I’m pretty sure I’d cursed And. I was just like, holy smokes. Like I’ve never heard someone break it down like you just did. I think we were talking about how to respond to like a really dysregulated child. And again, I’ve talked to a lot of people, I think I have a lot of great ideas, but man, Alyssa broke it down in a way that I was like, that is brilliant. And, I. Just think she’s filled with those type of ideas. I just think she’s fun and like I said, very, very relatable and humble and vulnerable, which you guys know. I love a good, humble, vulnerable, and brilliant educator.
So really pumped for you guys to listen to this episode. But let me just tell you a little bit more about Alyssa before we jump in. So Alyssa Blask Campbell CEO of Seed and Sew has a master’s degree in early childhood education and is a leading expert in emotional development. She’s a global speaker on building emotional intelligence and podcast host of voices of your village, which I had the honor of being on earlier this spring. I’ll make sure that I put my episode that I was on with on her show inside of the show notes for you. But her show supports parents in over a hundred countries and is just phenomenal. Alyssa was featured as an emotional development expert in publications such as The Washington Post, Kids Vermont, Burlington Free Press and Family Education.
After co-creating the Collaborative Emotion Processing – They call it CEP Method with Lauren Stale and researched it across the us. Her book, Tiny Humans Big Emotions, is publishing with Harper Collins in the fall of 2023, which is so exciting. You’re gonna hear us talk all about that book in this episode. And, it actually releases this week, you guys, so you gotta go support her. Can’t wait for you to get your hands on it. But Alyssa is deeply passionate about building emotional intelligence in children, stating it’s never too early or too late to start. Alyssa show up as you are approach welcomes people into her village to get support at all ages and stages shame free.
Her company Seed and Sew serves people across the globe through speaking, consulting, online courses, early childhood professional development program, and podcasting with tools to build emotional intelligence. And for more info, her website, which she covers all at the end is seedandsew.org. But I am just thrilled again for you guys to get to know Alyssa more. I know that you are going to love her as much as I do, but without further ado, help me welcome Alyssa to the show and enjoy this episode about Understanding and Building Emotional Regulation in our Hearts and Homes.
Stella:
Well, hey there, I’m Stella. Welcome to my mom and dad’s podcast, the Fresh Start Family Show. We’re so happy you’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean, Jesus, and rock and roll and believe deeply in the true power of love and kindness. Together we hope to inspire you to Expand your heart, learn new tools and strengthen your family. Enjoy the show.
Wendy:
Hi there families and welcome to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family Show. I am thrilled to be here today with Alyssa Blakk Campbell from Seed and Sew. Welcome to the show Alyssa.
Alyssa:
Thanks Wendy. I’m so excited to be here with you.
Wendy:
Oh, I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time. You are just such a light in the world, Alyssa, when it comes to a lot of things, but especially emotional Regulation with kids. So we’re gonna talk today all about Understanding and Building, Emotional Regulation. I know this is your jam. You are so profoundly wise in this area. And so before we get going with our subject, will you tell us your story? Tell us a little bit more about how you became so passionate about what you do over at Seed and Sew tell us all the things, tell about your, tell us about your family, where you live, all that good stuff so listeners can get to know you.
Alyssa:
Yeah, sure. So I live in Vermont, And I live here with my husband and tiny human And I start – I grew up in western New York in like a small farm town and I’m one of five kids and my parents got pregnant at 19 and like kick started their journey and my mom was a stay at home mom and waitress on weekends and ran an unregulated family childcare out of our home and things like that. Just making ends meet. Really And I didn’t grow up in a household that had tools for emotional regulation. It wasn’t something I was taught like emotional intelligence wasn’t a focus in our household. I really grew up in a household of really heavily focused on respect, which for them often meant obedience.
And I grew up with incredible parents that I’m super close with and love dearly who weren’t perfect in the same way that I as a parent are not perfect and neither are you and neither is anyone listening and that’s okay. And I found myself though in especially my teen years, leaning on coping mechanisms just like treading water, trying to stay afloat. And on the outside I was a straight A student, I was president of student council, I was running all the things. I was a star athlete. I had jobs, had it quote “together” right on the outside and on the inside I was drowning.
And I got into college, And I was at college and really just trying to survive. And I had an incredible college roommate Megan Raca who in the kindest way was like, have you ever thought about therapy? And oh I love Megan’s a real gift to this world. And I was like, therapy is for when you’re broken. That was I, it was not something, therapy was not something that I grew up seeing anyone go to. It wasn’t something I was exposed to and so I like brushed it off and then found myself being like, oh actually yeah, think I need that.
And leaned into it just little by little and was like, oh and was starting to get to breathe. And then I found myself right after college teaching preschool and getting my master’s in early childhood education and was, it was so focused my education was on like classroom management and behavior management and so many of the things that I grew up with this respect in management, And I was learning something else in therapy. And I was like, oh wow, what am I doing here? What are we doing? And so as my trajectory kind of continued to unfold, my practice continued to grow.
And I was at the school where a teacher came up to me and said, I think that we’re doing something different. And I was teaching infants and toddlers at the time and she was teaching preschool pre-K and we were at a school where every had teacher at a master’s in early ed and it was like really resource rich. And yeah, I was like, what do you mean we’re doing something different? And so we started to dive into what did that mean and look like. And in that process we created the collaborative emotion processing method. We call it the cep method, CEP for short. And we researched it across the US in childcare centers with families, et cetera. And then now we have our book out on it now. Tiny humans, big emotions, And it is really dives into how do we build emotional intelligence in kids?
What does that even mean? And then what does it look like in practice? Especially if you’re like me and you didn’t grow up with this and it’s all new.
Wendy:
Oh so good. I didn’t realize so many of us educators have similar stories but very, very similar story. I didn’t realize we had such similar stories as far as like back in those teen years, like you just show up in the world. And I recently realized that’s actually the years when I and, it actually started for me around nine. But like when I learned to show up and like actually hide, like I, I learned to like present like everything’s good, I’m good, everything’s fine. And then inside you’re just like, I just doing whatever you can. It’s for so many teens that like starts the downward track of just getting wasted on Friday night or whatever drown your emotions, whatever. It looks different for everybody. But yeah. Gosh, what a beautiful story. And tell me, tell me now, so how old is your little guy?
Alyssa:
Yeah, he’s two and a half.
Wendy:
He is two and a half. So you are just getting, like getting the chance to practice everything that you’ve created and researched and learn on your own tiny human. And let me ask you, how has that been? Because we all know is I have so many teachers in my program, right, that are like, how is it Wendy that I can teach like 24 freaking amazing kindergartners all day and not scream once and then I come home. So for you, have you experienced that at all where you’re like just a little more triggered by your own or
Alyssa:
Oh sure. Are you so darn? Yeah. Okay. Oh sure. Yeah. So much more triggered by my own, it’s 24 7, right? It’s this like this story that I tell myself like he represents me as a parent when he’s out in the world, right? Like it’s so egocentric that it, it’s about me. And when I’m in that space, when it is about me, yeah, it is so triggering and every meltdown, every we were, we were on vacation in February with my parents. And I was seeing, he got sick, he got the flu. And when I grew up one of five kids, like you did not show or receive love by having needs, by being needy, being high maintenance, right?
All the word I made makes me cringe and throw up my mouth a little bit. And I saw him sick and saw had this part of me that was like, I don’t want him to have a lot of needs right now because I want them to love him.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Alyssa:
And that part of me that didn’t feel lovable when I had needs when I was quote needy. And so those that like in another kid, if another kid’s sick, I’m not triggered by it because I’m like whatever. I don’t really care if my parents love that kid, but I want the world to love him. I want him to be lovable because I wanna be lovable.
Wendy:
Yes. Dang. And what a gift to have that awareness And. It may like in those moments it’s like it may come even a little bit later when you’re realizing like, oh, in the living room in that moment I was like really stressed out and then now I realize what was happening. But, or if you’re able to catch it in the moment and be like, oh I know exactly what’s going on right now. And we all get better at that as time goes on, like catching ourselves in the moment versus later. But it’s such a gift to at least understand why we’re so much more triggered by our own kids
Alyssa:
Totally.
Wendy:
Than we are other kids. How beautiful. Awesome. And nowadays, so you have your CEP collab, your, tell me more about that. So you’re the certifying schools, right? Or your certify teachers on top of the incredible work you do through, you have a membership program, right? You have a membership and tell me more about that. Yeah, yeah. What’s your day-to-day look like?
Alyssa:
Sure, sure. Yeah. So we have kind of two arms of the business. We work with families, caregivers, parents, and we have a robust social media and weekly podcast. The book. Yes. A parenting book. Thank you. We have a free Facebook group, we have parenting courses and classes and then we have our teacher program. So we work with early childhood educators, family childcare providers, center-based care UPKs. And we have a seed certification which is schools excelling in emotional development and it’s a series of pd but it’s also a community where they can ask a question at any point.
And we provide experts in the field of early ed, occupational therapists and psychologists, speech language pathologists, et cetera, to be able to answer their questions to show up in community with teachers. Because often in early ed we only have access to support specialists or a coach if we have a child who receives services and they’re really there to support that child and not to support us in early ed. So we started that and we contract in all these support services who really to help teachers to have a community to do this work. What does it look like when you have nine toddlers and you can’t tap out and you can’t leave the classroom and they’re all driving you up a wall.
Right? What does this look like day in and day out to do this work as teachers? So our seed certification program is for early childhood educators.
Wendy:
Oh. So awesome. And are you doing that in person now? Are you doing it, is it online virtual? Online. Right. All virtual. So anybody all over the world can get that certification and bring it into their, or it can advocate for it to be brought into their preschool system. ’cause you’re mostly specializing in in preschool and not elementary schools, right? Is that accurate?
Alyssa:
Yeah. We don’t have an L-Ed certification yet. We’re actually in the process of of researching and building it out now. But for demand, we have a lot of our UPK programs that are like, we need this K through five, can you build it? So we’re in the process of that now. But right now, yeah, early ed and all families get access to our Tiny Humans Big Emotions course, our online course that are a part of these programs. So if your kid goes to a Seed cert school, you get access to our course for free.
Wendy:
Ooh dang. That’s amazing. Well that’s so fun to hear about because man that’s gonna all of your work is changing the world. But that’s really, that lights me up because it just feels like it’s very unpresent. Like it’s, we’re lucky here in southern California, we live in in San Diego, California and we have like full blown social emotional literacy programming in our school system in in state California. And. it is amazing. But working with families all over the world, that’s just not present.
Alyssa:
Yeah.
Wendy:
And so to think 10, 20, 30 years out to have your this be in every single school system and just like they’re learning math and English, they’re learning this that you teach and that you teach teachers to teach. Boom. Yeah. So good. Cool.
Alyssa:
And our goal is that apart from like math and English where it’s like you go to math and English, you have it for what, a half hour, four minutes a day that SEL is a part of how you practice. It comes into math and English. It comes into every bit of the how. It’s not just something, it’s on the checklist. Oh we did social emotional learning today. Check that. It’s about how we show up with kids. And when we resourced the CEP method, one of my favorite things that teachers reported was that it changed how they experienced children’s emotions. So it wasn’t that all of a sudden kids weren’t having tantrums or meltdowns or they stopped being human because we’re all human. It was that teachers and families were experiencing these emotions differently so they could respond differently.
Wendy:
Oh, I love that. Which I had screenshotted some. One of the things before you had said, I was just like on reviewing for our inter interview and you had a post that you said just, it’s amazing how fast your stress levels will drop. Like when you really, I forget exactly what you had said. I guess I didn’t screenshot shot that one, but it was like amazing how fast your stress levels will drop when you realize that your, the kid that you’re working with is not just being a turd. It’s like they’re stressed, you realize they’re stressed, they’re challenged and then all of a sudden your stress levels drop. So yeah, like that idea of obedience is not even focusing on obedience, but just how do we lower the stress level in this classroom or in this home right now.
The seeing that they’re stressed and they’re not just out to get us or trying to be naughty or whatever’s.
Alyssa:
It’s so hard to do. And it’s such a huge part of emotional regulation is being able to rewrite that script. Because when my kid is doing something that in the moment, my gosh, be manipulative or defiant, defiant is a big trigger for me. So when he’s doing something where he’s looking me in the eyes and doing what he’s not supposed to do.
Wendy:
Yeah, yeah. With the With the raised eyebrow.
Alyssa:
Yeah. Like mom, check it out. Yeah. I that defiance that it feels like inside, if I look at him and the script that I have is about his defiance and manipulation at that point. And then that story results in certain actions from me. Now if I look at him And, I can say, oh he’s being so defiant and, and I’m starting to spiral And. I’m like, oh. And then I notice man, my shoulders are up to my ears and my chest is really tight and I’m feeling fired up. And, I start with Alyssa – Lower your shoulders. Slow down your heart. Yeah. Take a deep breath.
And now I look at him And, I can see, oh man, we haven’t connected all day. I’ve been here but I was pulled into this work call and then I was trying to make lunch and then we were And I realized like he’s asking to connect or you know what, it’s almost lunchtime and he’s getting hangry. Yeah. When I can then see what’s actually happening there, then my response, what I feel inside is totally different. And then I can respond with compassion. But that part, like we all want to get to the, I can respond with compassion part of emotional Regulation and there’s so much that precedes that.
Wendy:
Yes. And that script is so paved, right? Like that like neural pathway from the time we were whatever, two most likely to 18 like and before a lot of us left our nest. It’s just so freaking paved. I know how to do that. Like I know how to assume negative intent because it was most of the time God bless our parents. It’s just most of the time it was assumed on us. So then you just naturally repeat. Right? Like that a hundred percent. That inner voice comes so fast of what your, your mom and dad’s voice was on you.
Alyssa:
Yeah. I put a mine in the book that says I open my mouth and my mom comes out. Yeah. Comes sometimes That’s great. Right? Sometimes I totally wanna pass that on and sometimes I’ve spent a lot of therapy dollars to try and not pass that on. Yeah. And so it’s learning to notice when that comes out and I’m like, oh yikes, I don’t wanna pass that one on. Where do I go next? Yep. And not beating yourself up about it but just totally using it as a directive.
Wendy:
I love that. I do. I love your work so much Alyssa because you teach in such a relatable way. And I love what one of your declarations I’ve seen you say is that you encourage parents to show up as they are like show up as you are shame-free. Which I think when it comes to big time experts, right? Which let’s be clear, you are like, it can be, it can feel so intimidating, but I love how relatable you are and just how you’re like just you’re very easy to learn from because you just, you give very actionable real life examples. And. it is just, you can tell it’s a very like shame-free environment. We, we operate in a similar way here at Fresh Start Family within our programs and it’s just so fun.
Let’s just take away all the BS and let’s just really be real with each other. Let’s actually talk about what’s actually going on behind closed doors. No need to hide it wherever you are at. That’s where we can really get the work done. Right? Yeah. Like where it’s like when you, I love it when parents in my coaching programs, they’re like, they like actually share like the big mistake they made this morning or the pattern that they’re just like, oh my gosh, I can’t stop grabbing the wrist or whatever it is. And they just say it and they’re like, I can’t believe I just said that. And they’re now like, now we can get to work. Like now we know what’s, no more hiding, no more hiding. This is actually what we’re working with. Now we can move forward.
Alyssa:
Well there’s no perfection in this. And that’s the part that I just wanna call full BS on that. That there is any that you can like do enough work and okay, if I do enough self-care, like I’m going to show up as a regulated parent all the time and then my kid’s gonna respond in a very connected regulated way and it’s gonna be picture perfect and that’s bullshit. That’s not the goal. It’s not how it works. It’s not what our nervous system’s designed for. We’re designed to ebb and flow. We’re designed to be in states of dysregulation and sometimes stay there for a little bit and then be able to come back down. Excitement is a form of dysregulation.
Like I don’t wanna not experience excitement. Fear is a great teacher. It says you aren’t safe or something isn’t safe here. Emotionally, physically, et cetera. I want to be able to lean into those things. I want a kid when they’re in high school has a gut they can lean on and say something doesn’t feel right. I feel like I’m not supposed to be in this situation. I don’t know what to do next or I’m not sure what I’m gonna do next but I know I can trust my insides. And if we’re only expecting kids to ever be regulated or ourselves to ever be regulated, what we’re saying is don’t trust your insides. ’cause your insides aren’t always gonna be regulated.
Wendy:
Heck yes. Here’s a quote you had shared online. We are meant to get dysregulated, to have meltdowns, to express our feelings and to have needs. The goal isn’t obedient children who are scared to express it’s children who have a space, safe space to break down to share their hardships knowing we will support them through. Yeah, it’s beautiful. Yeah. I just had a private session yesterday where it’s un helping this amazing mama unwind so much of her hardship as an adult all came down to just the simple, there was a lot but it was like one of the biggest things was just a suppression of emotions. Like you had to be tough growing up if you cried, just stay strong. Everything’s fine, don’t freak out.
And it’s just, there’s so much missed opportunity there when it’s just amazing how much there is to learn through the messes. Like it’s just so powerful.
Alyssa:
Well and that’s where like anytime I’m like following a parenting account and I’m not seeing authenticity, I’m like peace. Yeah. I don’t want to hear from you only what it’s, this is what it should look like. This is the picture perfect thing. I don’t learn from that. I don’t learn from that. And then I find myself in comparison mode. Damn. If I like really if I did more work, if I did more, if I was more regulated, present, connected, you fill in that blank, then I could be like them And I who they are on the internet isn’t the real them. And I think so often we get stuck in that. So yeah, the shame freak thing for me is just a no brainer.
’cause it’s, I don’t know how you can authentically show up and not have that as a part of it. That doesn’t make sense to me. Yeah. And for us, yeah, go ahead.
Wendy:
And so many programs, they just are missing that little bit. It’s a little, it’s a tiny bit but it makes such a big difference.
Alyssa:
Yeah, sure. Yeah. I and and it’s the same thing where like I mentioned, I have awesome parents that I love so much into who did an awesome job. And so when I talk about things like I hope my mouth, my mom comes out and sometimes I spent a lot of therapy dollars trying to not repeat that. Not ’cause she was a bad mom. She slayed. Yeah she does a great job and she wasn’t a perfect mom and that’s okay. The goal wasn’t perfection. The goal isn’t that our kids are getting to adulthood and they’re like, I have nothing to work on. That’s not the goal. It like I it’s that they know here are spaces to turn to work on that here are tools I can tap into to work on that I have a safe space to break.
Yes. That’s what I want for them.
Wendy:
Yes. I always say that we all are like inflicting wounds on our children no matter how many hours of certification you have. And that is exactly it. That’s the goal right? Is for our kids to get older and be like, oh look at that. I’ve got a, I’ve got a wound that I’ve gotta work on that isn’t quite healed so here’s I just boom, here’s all the ways that I can get supported. There’s no shame in getting help. I know. It’s just that is the goal. Yeah. But we all are like inflicting wounds even with all of this work and being fluent in it. We still will like, and I’m just so thankful that my kids, our kids are gonna know that that’s just part of life is when you get older.
You just continue to be on a journey to just do all this stuff. So good. Alright, we could just, we could go off rabbit little everywhere and talk all day. But let’s get into our subject matter. Okay. So Understanding and building emotional regulation. Let’s start off by talking about the difference between sensory and emotional Regulation. I’m telling you, sensory is one of these things that I’m just still help me understand. I’m so not the sensory expert. I’m just like what? Okay, So I can’t wait to send this all in. Sure. Tell us about it.
Alyssa:
Yeah, I got you. Sensory is my jam. So for us, we can’t do emotional Regulation without sensory Regulation. There are eight sensory systems. We often think of our five sight, sound, taste, touch, smell. There are three additional sensory systems. Interoceptive. That’s if I say I have butterflies in my stomach, that feeling inside. Right? And so it’s what is happening inside? What am I feeling? What are those sensations? That’s your interoceptive system. It could be I’m feeling hungry, I’m starting to feel tired, things like that. We often start to connect them with a word. And my goal in this work is that we connect more emotion words to internal sensations so that we’re not only saying I have butterflies on my stomach and we know nervous and excited, but what if we had phrases that helped us identify what it felt like inside.
When you were mad, when you were frustrated, when you were embarrassed, when you were disappointed. And kids could start to notice when I’m having this inside, this is what I’m feeling. Anyway, side note, that’s the goal. Another sensory system is your proprioceptive input. So this is that big. It’s like your muscle input, your big body play. This is that desire for kids to climb and jump off of things and have that tight squeeze or a snuggle. Sometimes it’s that big muscle input. And then we have our vestibular system. And our vestibular system is responsible. It’s like our little internal GPS for like where are we in space? And it’s your movement sense.
So you could get vestibular input from swinging or dipping upside down or spinning around. Now we all of these eight sensory systems have some things that we’re sensitive to and sometimes some things that we’re seeking that help us regulate. And so for me, when I look at my tiny human, my two and a half year old, he is sound sensitive and tactile sensitive to touch. And this shows up as as a baby any sounds like he was never ever a kid who was gonna like sleep in the living room. Sleep we like my sister-in-law had a, yeah, right. My sister-in-law had a baby her third about three weeks after Sage was born and they have very different sensory systems and I’d see these pictures of him at a restaurant and he’s asleep in the car seat or whatever and I’m like, in what world?
No, he’s too sound sensitive. We went to a wedding when he was three months old. He’s sobbing. I step outside, he’s fine. Like he was too loud. He had headphones on and everything’s still too loud. He’s sound sensitive and he can now he’ll say, oh I heard that noise. He’ll tell us all the time. Oh I heard that noise. And it’s something I haven’t even clocked, I haven’t even registered it. He’s tactically sensitive, which means touch feels very different for him than it does for me. If something’s really hot or really cold or something is warm for him, it’s really hot. If something is cool, it’s really cold. If something is just, I’ll say, is it too tight or is it touching you? Like he’ll put on a pair of socks too tight Mama too tight.
Is it too tight or is it touching you? Like for him that feels too tight. He is really sensitive to touching now seeking, he could sit on a swing all day, every day, loves going back and forth on a swing or spinning around or dipping upside down. He’ll ask, can we do dips? And he’s asked since he was one dips mama. And yeah, that is something that helps regulate him. That’s something he’s seeking. We have different thresholds for sensory input. For me, I could swing about an eighth of the time that he could swing without getting nauseous. Like I hit my threshold way before he hits his.
But I have a huge threshold for proprioceptive input. I love that big body play. I could do jumps I like, it’s hard for me to get touched out. I can have a baby on my body all all day and I’m like, gimme more like love that feeling. Love that weight of a human on me versus my husband. Is that like exercise?
Wendy:
Is that like exercise? Jogging. Is vestibular okay.
Alyssa:
Yeah.
Wendy:
Oh is prop perceptive?
Alyssa:
Yes. Some exercise can include vestibular, but I love like kickboxing, good proprioceptive input. I’m also a human who like I could go have a massage for four straight days and at the end I would be like, I want more. Right? Like it’s never enough. And yeah, so like looking at the first thing we do is so good is really looking at what are we seeking and what are we sensitive to? And all of us as individuals are gonna be different here. And so when we’re looking at regulation and we’re separating that sensory regulation from emotional regulation, when I see a kid who’s having a meltdown, who’s having a tantrum who’s in a state of defiance for me, what that means is inside his alarm bell is going off.
So if Sage is losing it. My little guy’s name is sage. If he’s losing it, I know that his prefrontal cortex, his rational thinking brain and problem solving brain has shut down. His amygdala is on. That’s that primal fight flight, freeze fawn brain. And he’s in a reactive state. So even if he has tools in his toolbox, normally when he is in a regulated state, he can’t access all of them right now. Yeah. Just like in the moment if I’m like yelling or I’m snapping, I’m not like, you know what I’d like to do right now? I’d like to snap at my husband. No, it’s just happening because I’m in a reactive state. So when Sage, he’s melting, he’s in that reactive state. And now here’s where we separate them. Say he is in this reactive state, And, it started from him being disappointed because he wanted to have the red cup instead of the blue cup, right?
Yep. In this moment, it’s not about the cup. In this moment I’m not emotion coaching him. And, I. Wish I could scream this more from the rooftops. I’m not emotion pushing, I’m not teaching him how to ask for it differently. What I’m doing is turning the alarm bells off. I’m focusing on that sensory Regulation. I’m thinking back to, okay, what does he seek? He seeks vestibular input that helps him regulate. How can I help him start to tune into what’s happening in his body, get back to a safe body and then we can move into emotions sometimes.
Wendy:
Dang
Alyssa:
Do you want me to pause?
Wendy:
You have a I’m like tell me how. I’m like, okay, keep going, keep going.
Alyssa:
Sure, keep going. So sometimes I’m gonna pair it with a phrase or a sentence. And this depends on the kid. For some kids, if you talk or you mention an emotion in this point they, it grows in size. These are our highly sensitive children where if you say that emotion worked, like I’m not mad. And then they like, they get mad and great. So then all I’m going to do is hold space and focus on sensory regulation. So for some kids this is going to be decreasing stimuli. I’m gonna turn down the lights. If you think of a like animal in the wild, right? If I’m, I know I live in Vermont, but I’m not really a nature human.
A bad Vermonter. Well I imagine if one were to be in nature and they saw an animal in the wild and then that other animal sees another animal and they posture up and they’re in fight mode, right? I wanna picture this. If your kid is posturing up, they’re getting big. What we wanna do is lower, right? So if I posture up, we’re gonna be in fight mode. If I power over, if I yell, if I assert control, if I get big, we’re in fight mode. I wanna send their nervous system signals that say you’re safe here. I’m not here to fight you. We’re gonna do that in a few ways.
Wendy:
Nice.
Alyssa:
We’re gonna reduce stimuli to help make them feel safe. We’re gonna pull down the lights, we’re gonna drop out any background noise. If there’s music on, there’s TV that’s just running in the background, et cetera. Pull down whatever background noise I can. I’m gonna drop my body physically down on their level. I’m gonna make sure my shoulders are back and I’m gonna come in and, I am going to regulate my tone here. I’m gonna talk to them like this. I might even whisper.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Alyssa:
’cause if I’m talking like this, it sends their nervous system a different message than if I’m talking like this. Yes. Like this. You’re in trouble. Do not let that armor down. We are fighting.
Wendy:
Yep.
Alyssa:
So I’m gonna focus on me. Emotional Regulation is so much more powerful when we regulate ourselves first.
Wendy:
Heck yeah.
Alyssa:
So we’re gonna focus on us. We’re gonna decrease that stimuli. I might pop in a phrase that depends on your kid here that says something validating here. You really wanted that red cup instead of the blue cup. Gosh, that’s frustrating. Again, might leave out frustrating your right. Let them know I see it saying as few words as possible in validating here. And then I’m gonna turn to them and I’m gonna say, gosh, my heart is beating so fast. I can feel it. My shoulders are up to my ears and my fists are so tight. Have to calm myself. So I can help you.
Wendy:
Nice.
Alyssa:
I’m gonna lower my shoulders. I’m gonna squeeze my hands’ really tight and I’m gonna open, I’m gonna squeeze hands really tight. Now they might be screaming through this whole thing, right? Squeeze my hands really tight and I’m gonna open them. Whew. Okay. I feel my heart starting to slow down. I can almost ready to help you. I’m gonna take two more deep breaths to help my body calm. Okay. One And. I’m gonna go through another one and then I’m gonna turn to them. Now they might still be screaming, but their nervous system is starting to fire off of mine. It’s called mirror neurons.
Wendy:
Yes.
Alyssa:
In the same way when that baby laughs or there’s something funny and somebody like something is, is funny going on inside you like laugh or it feels good. You have that oxytocin feeling when your kid is melting, you are melting inside. And so we wanna make sure as you calm your body, even if they don’t say anything in the outside, they’re inside systems. What they’re saying is, oh it’s safe here. I’m safe here. I can start to let my guard down and now I’m gonna turn to them and I’m going to co-regulate. And this is where we pull in what we know works for them, whatever they’re seeking. Right? So my vestibular seeker, I’m gonna say, Hey buddy, do you wanna do a couple dips before we figure this out together?
I wanna help you get the right cup. Or we might, if they’re big body play, oh my goodness, can we do 10 big frog jumps? Let’s see if we can jump over to the cabinet to get the right cup together. Let’s do 10 big frog jumps over there. Or I wonder how many frog jumps it’ll take us. I might put in a little dopamine activity, which is that reward center of the brain and make it a game. I wonder if you can beat me over to the counter to get the right color cook. Or let’s do two lamps around the island in the kitchen. And I thought I can catch you on your market tech go And. it can feel in the moment like a distraction. But what we’re really doing is saying, I’m gonna get to the emotions in a second.
I’m gonna help them problem solve and learn other skills for expressing in a little bit. First I have to help their body get back to feeling safe so that they can even learn any of this.
Wendy:
Because if I jump too soon trying to teach them the right thing, trying to teach them social skills, that’s for me. It’s not for them. They’re not in a brain to receive it. Mm. Holy shit. I’ve had this conversation so many fricking times about sensory And, I love all the sensory experts I’ve ever had. And this is the first time I feel like I’ve fully am getting the sensory part. This is, you’re amazing at that. That that is amazing. That makes so much sense. I like get it now. I totally get it now.
Alyssa:
Sweet.
Wendy:
Okay. Okay. Before we go on to point number two about how to build skills for regulation and coping, I have a quick question about something when it comes to sensory.
Alyssa:
Yeah.
Wendy:
That can be a little confusing ’cause everything makes so much sense now. So both my kids had colic. Really young – bleh. First I slept the light with both my kids. So I was like, why? Why it’s so hard. Stella was like emergency C-section. Thank God we survived absent birth. Like I was unconscious. I didn’t even, I mean it was awful. And then she had colleague for three months and we were just like, what in the world? But we invented these things called the elevator that we would just go up and down. We, we would have to fly her around the whole house. We called it the airplane. And then we had the earthquake, which is how we put her to bed. And you’d put her on your knee and then you’d go boom and she would fall asleep.
Alyssa:
Yeah.
Wendy:
It was like insanity. But this is the first time. It’s not insanity, it’s just, and now I’m realizing that per perhaps she had these sensory needs ’cause she’s my strong beautiful willed. Yeah. Little girl who is the reason why I’m an educator. But she was just so adamant that she had these needs from a very young age. And then she was also the kid, everything touching her like hot to bot was her pull up at three and she’s a freaking out ’cause it’s hot to bot all that kind of stuff. But here’s my question. So I’m getting all of this down. It’s making so much sense and helping me just have even more compassion for my little girl than I ever have. But how can we can have this sound sensitivity, let’s say, right where I’m sound bugs me, right?
If I’m at And I know still is similar. If we’re in a party and there’s like all these people talking and someone’s trying to talk to me and they can’t, I can’t hear them very well, my brain goes nuts and I’m like, oh And, it stresses me out. But we’re like a heavy metal family and we go see a Metallica like front row and we fricking love it. So what is that?
Alyssa:
Totally
Wendy:
Explain that.
Alyssa:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s Stella?
Wendy:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa:
So two things at play here. One, sensory input’s cumulative. So when we’re looking at sensory input throughout the day, I think of it like a battery. And we have a whole chapter on this exact thing in the book, okay. Is if you imagine when we go to bed at night and I plug our phones in the kitchen, we go upstairs, our phone’s charging all night long. The minute that I come down And I unplug that phone, my battery starts to drain right? Whether I’m using it or not. And then if I use certain apps, it drains faster. And we are very similar that we, from the minute we wake up, our battery starts to drain because our brain is constantly taking in all this sensory input from the way our clothes feel to the sounds to transitions or changes in a routine all in an effort to keep us safe.
It’s saying, is this thing important When a car drives by my brain says not important, don’t pay attention to it. You’re safe. If my fire alarm goes off right now, my brain says that’s important. Pay attention, you’re not safe. And in order to do that work all day long, it’s processing every piece of stimuli. And so when you’re at a party and there’s a lot of stimuli going on around you, it’s not just that person that you can’t hear, it’s that your brain is listening to all these other things that are happening. ’cause you’re in a different environment and all the, every time somebody moves, every time there is somebody wa. ’cause if somebody came in that you wouldn’t be safe around, your brain wants to clock that and say, oh I’m not safe. Yeah. And so it’s scanning the environment. It’s taking in all this stimuli.
Alyssa:
And so focusing in on one conversation can feel really hard to do.
Wendy:
That’s like an app that drains more, that’s like an app app that drains more on your phone. I got it.
Alyssa:
Like streaming of it’s like streaming video versus your phone just sitting there, right? Like
Wendy:
oh helps, okay.
Alyssa:
Right. Like you’re at home and chilling. Like your phone’s just sitting there. You’re not streaming anything. You go to the party. First of all, all the things that led up to the party getting out the door, all there’s 7 million things to do. And then we were driving in traffic and all the stuff that led up.
Wendy:
The headband. The headband. That is turning my head because I’m my last sensory girl, which is why my daughter probably inherited it.
Alyssa:
Yes, yes, exactly. And so we’re looking at what, and we call them task demands. What task demands can we lower? Like maybe taking that headband off and saying, you know what, at this party there’s gonna be so much going on. I know that this pulls from my nervous system. I’m not gonna wear a headband today. I’m gonna make focusing harder. And so looking at this is cumulative, so we wanna recharge throughout the day. That stuff we’re seeking is how we recharge. Sometimes it’s sensory deprivation, I don’t know for you. But I’ve be probably at least once a day where I’m like, I just wanna lay in a dark room where nobody’s asking me for anything and there’s no one on my body. And I just get to just be quiet and still and like that sounds glorious. Those would be like a sensory break. And then the other ones would be that sensory input.
So for some kids it’s tactile that they’re seeking that tactile, they need something to touch. Or some of us it’s that vestibular input. For some it’s proprioceptive. This could be an, an outlet like coloring could be a part of a sensory break where it’s just gonna tone down everything. I’m gonna put screens away, I’m going to breathe, I’m going to color, I’m going to, for me, auditory is helpful. So, I love, like listening to a podcast can actually drown out other things for me and help me calm. And so looking at what is it that fills us up? How do we do that before we go into these things, if you know you have a party coming up, I would be way more interested in what are you doing in the hours before that party that are gonna recharge your battery so that you have more to pull from when you get to that party.
Wendy:
Amazing. And I’m just thinking about all the kids with like their dressing stuff. Stella was that kid who could only wear sweat stretch pants. And you hear so many parents that are like, yeah, oh the kid can only wear stretch, stretch pants. But like just this viewpoint of realizing that it’s just whichever one, whichever category.
Alyssa:
Yeah,
Wendy:
it’s just feels good. So it’s like either the reduction of something that feels icky or I’m imagining like I love, especially at 45, I’m like, give me all the comfort clothes. Like I will not wear a fricking pair of jeans. I keep bringing this about me. But for me it helps me relate to my children.
Alyssa:
Totally.
Wendy:
When I think about the three-year-old and she just wants the fuzzy jacket and she just wants and oh that’s so helpful. Last thing about sensory and then I promise you we’re gonna go on, we’re gonna have to breeze through our last two real quick, but okay. So with the, I think it’s Proprio. So Stella was the kid that she had, she really loved to be at, what’s it called? Swaddled. But then she always, she actually didn’t love, she never, she’s been our kid that never loves to snuggle. She does not like the hug, she doesn’t like the snuggles, she just, no, Taryn, my little guy does. So it’s just different times. Right? So what I’m learning from you, it’s just different times and different needs or it seems so opposite, right? Do you like to be wrapped up Temple Grandin did in like college or do you not?
Which one is it?
Alyssa:
It’s different when you’re receiving it from a person than when you’re receiving it from another thing. Because you’re going, if I am snuggling in,
Wendy:
I see
Alyssa:
my body is also responding to whatever’s happening inside of your body. And that’s very loaded. If your body is feeling stressed, And, I’m snuggling into you, I’m gonna feed off that stress.
Wendy:
That makes sense. Okay. And I think, I’m pretty sure does that, does the empath come into this? I feel we’ve always joked that like we could with Stella especially read each other’s minds, especially her and dad. I know that may sound weird, but she’s very, she can feel energy very,
Alyssa:
I would classify her. We have sensory sensitive and emotionally sensitive humans and sometimes they fall into both categories. She sounds like both. She has sensory sensitivities and she’s an emotionally sensitive human, which means you are so good at reading the room, you sense that energy when you come in and you internalize that and what’s key. I’m an emotionally sensitive human as well. And what’s key for us is making sure that we build tools for self-regulation and self-awareness. So we build awareness of, oh, I’m taking on this energy, what helps me regulate in case that person doesn’t So I don’t fall into codependent habits.
Wendy:
Oh my gosh. I literally, I am like gonna devour this book. I feel like I might wanna do your certification. And I am. Yeah, I’m gonna, we’re gonna talk. Okay. This is amazing. Alright, our other two points we’ve, I know listeners already are just like so blessed, their mind is being blown by this conversation. So we’ll just touch on these last two quickly. How to build skills for Regulation and coping and then what, when emotion processing happens.
Alyssa:
So just give us the high level on those two things. Yeah, so for Regulation and coping, so often we try to do it in the moment and it’s backwards. We’re gonna practice these things outside of the moment. So just Sagie was like 18 months or something. And I was like, all right, I’m gonna start trying to work on like breathing. He at that point would squeeze his fist and let them go. Sometimes it doesn’t mean he would bring it into the moment. I did all this practice outside of the moment first. So we’d be hanging out and play And. I would say, oh man, I’m trying to build this black tower And. I can’t get this one to stay on top of their aggress. I’m so frustrated. Okay, I’m gonna squeeze my fists and let them go and I’m gonna que I’m modeling and practicing when he’s in a regulated state so that he can start to take this in a little bit.
And then I’ll circle back to that when we’re at dinner later or whatever, I’m gonna say, oh man, earlier when I was feeling really frustrated when I was trying to build up the blocks, I felt it inside of my body. It was my chest felt really tight, my shoulders up to my ears and they wanted to scream. And when I noticed that, I let that and I’m frustrated. So I squeezed my fists, And I, let them go. Do you wanna practice with me? If you’re really frustrated, can you squeeze so tight and let them go and squeezed so tight and let them go? And then we started working on breathing. Like, oh man, whew. I feel my heart is beating so fast, I need to slow it down. And I have my hand on my chest. And I’m gonna say, you know what? It helps me to slow it down.
When I take deep breaths, I’m gonna try three deep breaths, So I, do all of this modeling outside of these moments. And then I bring it back into him. And then eventually it comes into in the moment with him. Now, the way that we do this in the moment for coping and regulation is that I’m always going to initiate and lead. I’m never going to expect a child to self-regulate that I haven’t been co-regulating with for a long time first. So I wouldn’t expect them to say, oh yeah, I remember that one time. I practice deep breaths with mom. Like, I’m gonna do that right now. And I met. But like we know as adults how hard it is to tap into regulation in the moment. We always start with awareness first. You can’t regulate what you’re not aware of.
So when he’s in the moment and he’s frustrated, I’m gonna say what I see and I’m gonna say, oh my gosh, your voice just got so loud and your shoulders are up to your ears. Gosh, you look frustrated. Oh, how could we slow down your heart so we can figure this out together.
Wendy:
Empowerment, love it.
Alyssa:
Let’s try. Yeah. Now let’s try And now I don’t expect an answer from him yet, right? Yeah. So like, how do we slow down your heart? And now I’m popping in. Let’s try and we have a full section on coping in the book, And it all different coping strategy ideas to figure out what works best for your unique child for coping in the moment.
Wendy:
I love it. Because even though you’re not expecting an answer, you know that his brain is firing with Oh, I know the answer. Especially if you’ve got a strong-willed one, right? Oh, I know. I’ll tell you. Like even if he can’t speak yet, they’re like, oh, let me show you. I know, I wanna know that. They’re like, I wanna know. I wanna know. They, it’s so you’re asking how are we gonna do this? Yeah. Maybe giving some space and then leading the way or whatever. That’s so beautiful. Yeah. Gosh. It’s like I’m thinking of like my current time when I’m still catching myself in this dysregulated state. I’m realizing – and I, actually, I was about to say, I can’t believe it’s taken me this so long, but it’s like, I realize that’s a shame statement that I’m like cutting out.
I’m like, I, I’m so happy to see that I’m finally realizing how much I hold my breath. And I’ve had headaches for a long time, like sure. Since I was 20 years old and I’m like, maybe that’s related. But it, I’m 45, it’s, yeah. And So I will be in the kitchen and it’s like a very small galley kitchen. And, I. And for so many years I’m like, this is so annoying. The kitchen’s so annoying and it’s just an opportunity to like model to my children. They’re older now. It’s never too late to keep modeling. They’re 12 and 15 now. But to just to realize, oh, look at that. I just realized I’m holding my breath. I’m like, I’m gonna And. I’m noticing now that I’m like redirecting myself and just stopping and breathing. It’s amazing how the journey just keeps going.
Like, you can have all these,
Alyssa:
it’s a forever, it’s a forever journey. My friend right there with you, sister
Wendy:
this realization and you’re like, oh my gosh, I’m holding my breath. Like And I never realized I was holding my breath so much. And so that’s cool. But the kitchen is my little trigger point now you were talking about, I, I was frustrated earlier building the blocks, right? And, it made me think like we can create that example for children through like play and like making it up. And we can also really use and take note of the situations where we really are having that anxiety or that frustration and then say it out loud or say it like, oh my goodness, I’m realizing that my shoulders are up here. I, I realize it’s so much in my sleep. Like when I have a wake attack in the night and I’m like, oh my gosh. Like I can feel my, my eyes are like squinted as I’m trying to get myself back to sleep.
It’s just amazing. I’m always thinking about like, how can we really teach our children the things we are learning and going through? And that’s what you just shared was such a great example of that. Let me show you first for a while. And then eventually it’s like amazing those times when you see it, like when you’re
Alyssa:
totally,
Wendy:
your guys still so little and I’m sure you see it, but as mine have gotten older, they’ll be like, I’m like, I’ve been teaching this for years. And then eventually they’ll be like, they’ll say something And it. It’ll be like out in public with a friend group or something and I’m like, oh my gosh.
Alyssa:
Totally. Not only those are those milestone moments, right? That we like all want and we’re looking forward to. And one of the facts in the book we have is about the mini stones to the milestones. ’cause I think this is something we miss out on is, okay, yeah, I want my kid to feel a feeling and acknowledge it and take deep breaths and calm. And that’s a huge milestone. What do we do to get to that milestone? What do those little mini stones look like? That add up to it. Just if I want a kid to read a chapter book, I’m not just handing them a chapter book if they’ve never seen the alphabet. We have mini stones that lead up to the milestones and we walk through what that looks like in the book so that you can see. It doesn’t really matter. I, I don’t give a flying care what age your kid is.
I wanna know what mini stone are they at right now? And then we’re moving on to the next mini stone from there to get to the milestone.
Wendy:
So good. Alyssa, tell us all about this book. This is a big week for you. It’s the book, your baby book Your book baby is out in the world. It’s out in the world. It’s so good.
Alyssa:
Our research ended five years ago. It ended in 2018. Oh. And we gathered data and we really wanted to write something with intention. I don’t like to add noise to a space.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Alyssa:
And So I was like, if I don’t know something that’s really gonna be different than anything I’ve ever read, then I don’t wanna put it out. And so when we were putting the book together, it really, it’s research backed, it’s data-driven And. it is the guide, it’s called Tiny Humans, big Emotions, how to Navigate Tantrums, meltdowns and Defiance to Raise Emotionally Intelligent Children, And. It really is about that. And the CEP Method has five components. One of them is adult child interactions. The other four are about us. And how do we do this work? And what’s coming up for us? Because I feel like I have read so many things or been in so many, listen to a podcast, I’m like fired up and ready to go. And then I get back into the moment, And I fall into my own patterns and habits.
And so for us, when we were creating the set method, we realized so much of this is about us, us, and how do we help adults build their toolbox alongside building a kids toolbox?
Wendy:
Wow. Absolutely amazing. You guys, this is a must have book in your library on your bookshelf. Will it be available on Audible too by chance? Or not yet? Yeah, it will be. Oh my gosh, you guys, that means it’s a absolute no brainer. That is how I do 98% of my books. I am fiction at night, but I’m an audible girl. And I know. I could get it from the li There’s the library apps where you can get it for free, but I’m like, I’m, it’s so easy. I just download it and done. Well, congratulations, Alyssa. I am just, I’m so inspired by you. Thank you for creating something that is, is so easy to understand. I really think that this is, especially like I said, when it comes to sensory stuff that you so beautifully, naturally and organically, like just in like weave into the emotion regulation stuff, it’s an area that for me has been hard to understand.
And the way you teach it just makes it so easy and applicable and tangible. And so I just cannot wait to get my hands on this book. You guys, make sure you head on over. It is out in the world. You can order it right now, whether it’s Audible or you get an actual copy in your mail, please go, or in your hands, please go support Alyssa and just finish us off too. Besides the book, tell us where we can find you. Where can listeners come get all things Seed and Sew?
Alyssa:
Sure. Yeah. So our website seedandsew.org is a great spot, but we have free guides on there too. If you’re like, I need to know right now like a free guide for what to do in the moment, we have that So. if you go to the parents tab, our website, you can snag that. What I would love, I love hanging out on Instagram. I would love if people could screenshot tuning into this podcast right now, share it over on your Instagram stories and tag both of us. Tag Wendy, tag seed.and.sew and I, wanna hear your favorite takeaway or something you want to go deeper into? Or if you felt, if something in this episode felt like, eh, I don’t know about that, Alyssa, I want, I wanna chat about that, let me know.
Like, I love having those conversations and going deeper and meeting you from going from podcasts to getting to meet you in my DM. So please share it. Tag us both and let me know what you wanna go deeper into or what your biggest takeaway was. I’d love to hear from you.
Wendy:
Oh, I love that. Yes, do that. Listeners, you guys, thanks for being here. Alyssa, thanks again and we’ll see you inside your book soon.
Alyssa:
Good. Thanks for having me.
For links and more info about everything we talked about in today’s episode, head to freshstarfamily online.com/196.
Stella:
For more information, go to freshstartfamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening, families, have a great day.
