The Fresh Start Family Show is kicking off February with an episode to help us deepen our confidence, strengthen our relationships and live intentionally through understanding our Enneagram types.
Today on the show, Callie Ammons, Enneagram Expert and life Coach walks us through what the Enneagram is, how to find our type, and all of the ways we can use it to improve our lives – especially our parenting lives!
This episode is all about utilizing the enneagram to:
- Gain confidence in understanding yourself.
- Parent better & more intentionally.
- Improve relationships all around you.
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Episode Highlights:
- What is the enneagram
- Where to start with Enneagrams
- How to find out your Enneagram type
- Finding expert mentors in the enneagram realm
- Understanding your gifts
- Breaking down and understanding: core motivations, core fears
- Managing yourself better by knowing your Enneagram type
- Using the enneagram to interact better with others
Resources Mentioned:
Beatrice Chestnut – Episode 15 Parenting & Family Dynamics through the Enneagram
Not able to listen or want to read along with us?
Here is the episode transcript!
Wendy:
This episode of the fresh start family show is brought to you by the bonfire support program, A life-changing, powerful, positive parenting community and support program feel successful and confident and grow leaps and bounds in your ability to parent with, from kindness and integrity, while significantly strengthening the bond with your kids. This supportive positive parenting and family life coaching program is for busy parents looking for consistent guidance and inspiration on how to redirect their kids misbehavior with integrity, teach important life lessons with connection and discipline. With effectiveness. It’s perfect for families who want to make positive parenting their new normal and be supported by a positive parenting educator every step of the way.
Wendy:
Head to FreshStartFamilyonline.com/join-bonfire to learn more or just click the community tab at FreshStartFamilyonline.com doors to this program only open twice a year and they are currently open, but only through Friday, February 4th. So now is your time to get supported. I cannot wait to see you there. Hello. Hello, welcome. I’m so happy that you are here listening to a new episode. I am your host, Wendy Snyder, positive parenting educator and family life coach. And my goodness. Am I excited to release this episode today! We have Callie Ammons on the show who is a Enneagram life coach and you guys, she is just so full of wisdom and is such a light.
Wendy:
She has just such a warm, welcoming, encouraging personality. She’s one of those people that I just feel like I want to go like hang out with her tomorrow and have coffee and go shopping and just glean all her wisdom. But we had just a really good conversation about how understanding ourselves through the Enneagram can really help us to be better parents. And this is a bit of a vulnerable discussion. I definitely share some of the things that God has helped me learn about myself over the last few years and even get emotional during times of this episode, which isn’t rare for me. I always say getting emotional is great. It’s not a weakness.
Wendy:
It’s not something that we need to be ashamed of. And I do get emotional a lot, but when something really moves me, you know, God blesses me with emotion. And I definitely had that come out during this episode. So you’ll hear me personally talk about how I have started to realize how much the Enneagram really does perfectly describe who I am, who God created me to be. And, you know, just learning to understand myself over the years has really been a blessing, but I am excited for you to listen to this episode, especially during this month, because you know, it’s February it’s Valentine’s day month, which is, you know, focused on love. And a lot of times I think as moms, we it’s easy for us to focus on, you know, making sure our kids feel unconditionally loved and getting the baskets together and getting the cute Valentine’s day outfits and presents and making sure our spouse knows how much we love them with the cards and whatever it may be.
Wendy:
But when it comes to like really loving ourselves and making it a practice to do that and having self compassion in ourselves and all that stuff that doesn’t usually come very easily to us. So in this episode, Callie really teaches us about how we can use the Enneagram to understand more about ourselves, understand how God perfectly designed us and how we each have things that are going to maybe come a little bit easy to us just based on our Enneagram type. And then other things that are, might be a little bit more of a challenge or take a little bit more reflection or personal work or willingness to look within, right?
Wendy:
And those things don’t make us bad. It’s just so good to be aware that we have a tendency to, you know, like go to those places. So knowing your Enneagram number, being able to be aware and kind of call yourself back into alignment of again, who God created you to be in a, in a way where you’re thriving as a mom, thriving, as you know, a spouse, sister, daughter of Christ, whatever it may be, whatever you identify as you’re listening right now, but to call you back in alignment and help you get back on track. It’s just really cool. So I have loved learning about the Enneagram over the years. And I’m excited for you guys to learn about the Enneagram with Callie Ammons today, too.
Wendy:
I really do think when you fall in love with the journey of personal development and self growth and learning more about yourself, I think life just becomes more joyful, right? And this is an episode where you are going to learn more about yourself and it is a form of self care, just like our bond peer support program that is still open right now at the time that this episode goes live. Remember, that’s a really big deal because this, this community only opens at stores for public enrollment twice a year. So if you’re interested in that, make sure you go check it out. Now, before doors close over on the website, FreshStartFamilyonline.com, just click the community tab.
Wendy:
And then of course at the end of this month, as another way of loving yourself, taking care of yourself, honoring yourself, we also have our freedom to be personal development course that is happening the weekend of February 25th and beautiful sunny San Diego. You can learn more about that personal development life coaching course weekend at the website, FreshStartFamilyonline.com/freedomcourse. So lots of different ways to take care of yourself. Lots of different ways to love yourself, to be able to build self-compassion, to be able to build self-awareness all the things I really think helps us thrive as human beings.
Wendy:
And so without further ado, let’s kick off this episode. Help me welcome Callie. Thanks again for listening. I love you all. And it’s just an honor to support and encourage you weekly with these episodes.
Stella:
Well, Hey there, I’m Stella. Welcome to my mom and dads podcast. The Fresh Start Family Show. We’re so happy. You’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean Jesus and rock and roll and believe deeply in the true power of loving kindness together. We hope to inspire you to expand your heart, learn new tools and strengthen your family. Enjoy the show.
Wendy:
Well, Hey listeners, welcome to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family Show. I am so excited to be here with Callie Ammons this morning. Good morning, Callie.
Callie:
Good morning, Wendy. I’m so excited to be here too. Thanks for having me on.
Wendy:
Yes, you guys. This is going to be a fun apps episode because Callie is an Enneagram life coach. And this is something that I am not an expert in. I have. So just teeny tiny little bit of dabbling happening. I’ve read a book, I’ve done my tasks. So I’m prepared with that at least Callie. But besides that, like, I’m just excited to be a student of yours today. And to have you bless our community with information about How the Enneagram can really help you understand yourself. So listeners, I’m going to let Callie introduce herself here in a minute, but she’s going to talk to us today about How the Enneagram gives you confidence to understand yourself How the Enneagram helps you Parent better.
Wendy:
Heck yes. And How the Enneagram helps you Improve relationships all around you. So this is going to be a really great talk. So Callie, will you kick us off by just telling us a little bit about yourself? That’s a little bit about where you live, how you got into this work, your family, you just had a new baby, right?
Callie:
I did, he’s three months old. He’s so sweet. Yeah. So my name is Callie and I am an Enneagram. I’ve coached like Wendy said. And it’s really an interesting story. Like how I got into that. I think a lot of people think of, you know, when you’re picking a career, it’s like one day you should just know what you want to do. And some people do, you know, they’re like I wanted to be a doctor ever since I was a kid, but for me, that was not my path. And it was so cool to just see how really my faith in the Lord led me in like one thing after the next. And it was like, okay, I love Enneagram life coaching. And what happened is four years ago, I just really became obsessed with trying to figure out how to live with more intention every single day. Because I realized that when I did that, it was actually leading to more freedom just in my personal life.
Callie:
So in my marriage, in my work like friendships, everything, and in that journey, I heard about the Enneagram, which if any of you listening are like, well, what the heck is she saying? It’s Enneagram. It just means nine points on a graph. And what it is is it’s basically a nine type personality assessment. And so it looks at our personalities, but more than just like, oh, Wendy and Callie are both outgoing and love people. It actually focuses on internally. Why? Like, why does Wendy love people? Why does Callie love people? And it could be completely different motivations. And that’s what defines your Enneagram type. So there’s nine different types, nine personalities. You also might hear that and be like, well, how are there only nine types of people?
Callie:
There’s so much depth within each personality? Like, no human is the same. So I just want to clarify that. Cause when I first heard it, I’m like, this is garbage. Like I’m so different than other people. But with the cool thing is, is it helps you understand why you’re doing what you’re doing? Healthy things and unhealthy things. So in that journey where I was living with more intention, finding freedom in my life, I was introduced to the Enneagram. I went so deep just in like listening to every podcast. I could reading books and I chose to get a certification. Literally for myself. I was like, this is so cool. Like I just want to keep understanding myself better because my whole life I’d always been told things like Callie, you’re just too much. Like you’re a little too ambitious. And I was wondering like, what’s wrong with me? Like, why am I like this?
Callie:
Why do I have this high drive while I’m a type three? And there’s a whole, whole thing behind that, of why I am the way I am. And it’s so cool to see how that’s your makeup and it’s not a negative thing to deny. And so anyways, I fell in love with this at the time that I was doing all this personal development, I had my podcast going where I was teaching about intentionality. And I decided to really niche down on becoming an Enneagram life coach because I realized if I can help people understand themselves on a deeper level, they can control like anything in their life, in such a positive way, like parenting their relationships with friends, spouse, like how they show up at work. And instead of trying to change who you are, cause a lot of us do that. We look at someone else and feel like we have to be like them instead of trying to do that.
Callie:
I actually love teaching people how to play into your strengths and competently being yourself. So that’s kind of how I got into the Enneagram and haven’t looked back. It’s been so awesome. And then yeah, I live in Colorado with my husband and we just had a baby, literally December 30th, 20, 20, he was due in 2021, but decided to sneak in a little early, his name is Fletch and he is just so sweet. He’s so much fun and we’re navigating a new season, but it’s growing us and we’re loving it. Oh,
Wendy:
Oh my gosh. That’s so exciting. You guys have the coolest names ever. Your husband’s name is Hutch, right? Is that right? Fletch and then your son’s name is,
Callie:
Or I’m so sorry. My husband’s name is Kramer. My son’s name is Fletch. Yeah.
Wendy:
I don’t know where, where did I get hatch? Okay. Kramer and Fletch. That’s so cool. Did I get it right now?
Callie:
Yeah, you did. I know like our parents are pretty good with naming us. I, when people compliment our names, I’m like, yeah, my mom did a good job, so yeah.
Wendy:
That’s so cool. Well thank you for sharing your story and how exciting. So that is so cool. I love it when God just puts like a spark of passion in us and we just not chase it. You know, it’s like, you’re just like, I don’t care. I’m doing this. I’m going to, I’m going to help people in this capacity. And that feels so, so good. And to be able to have the means to be able to do that feels so good. So awesome. Okay. Well talk to us. Let’s just kick right off Callie and tell us, okay. Let’s let’s, let’s just play around here. I know some of the listeners are listening and are, are new. So like, you know, they’re like, what is the Instagram you’ve you’ve told them a little bit about what it is and then where is a good starting point?
Wendy:
So I, like I said, I’m, I’m pretty new to it. I’ve read the book. I looked at the book that I read it was called the road back to
Callie:
You. That’s the one I read. Yep. Yes.
Wendy:
And I found out that I’m a two wing three.
Callie:
Oh, awesome. And I’m a three-week too. So there we go.
Wendy:
Perfect. And in my last Bible study with one of my most greatest mentors ever, I love her so much. She really isn’t an Enneagram. And so she counts would be a little bit on this and I started to understand it a little bit more, but I still am. Like, I just feel like I have so many questions. And when I read that book, I was very like, it was so exciting, but it’s yet it’s very con like was very confusing. Like there was so much to process. Yeah. So for the listeners who are maybe just new to this and they’re like, oh, I to find out, what am I, where do I start? Where do you start with all this? Before we get into the details of like, why this is going to help you?
Callie:
Absolutely. Okay. So if you think about like reading the Bible and you’ve never read it in your life and you’re like, okay, like what, like what does this even mean? That’s a huge book and a lot to swallow in so much depth, but it’s like, I mean, we’re going to spend our lifetime studying it and still not understand it all. So the Enneagram is similar in the sense that there’s just like depths of wisdom. And it’s because it’s involving research with humans and our personalities and our makeup and how we operate out of fear. And we are complex individuals, which isn’t something to be like, oh my gosh, I’m just not going to get into the Enneagram. But I do want to say that when you say it’s like confusing, it totally is. Like, I thought I knew so much. And then when I went into my certification, I was like, I know nothing. I’m like, oh my gosh. And there’s just so many layers to it.
Callie:
And I still study it consistently. So with that, it’s a journey. So anyone listening, that’s like, I’m actually interested in this and want to learn, know that it’s a journey and it’s not just a quick fix. Like, oh, let me find my number so that I can just kind of talk about it and laugh about it with people. The Enneagram is so helpful yes. To find your number. But then the goal is that you do work that helps you understand how to become healthier and whole, and really living in alignment with the gospel is what I teach and helping people understand, wow, I’m operating out of my flesh right now and I don’t have to stay here, but here’s what I can do. And it’s this self-awareness that you’re able to start walking and counseling yourself through in a moment. So if I like freak out, cause my husband like left the dishes on the counter and the moment I can get caught up, Callie, why did you just freak out right now?
Callie:
And I can like go through the whole thing based on my personality, the wisdom and understanding. So where to start with the Enneagram. The first thing that I recommend is listening to expert teachers teach about it. So Ian Cron, the book that you read the road back to you, that is an incredible book to read. If people want to read, I highly recommend that, but he also has a podcast called typology. He’s phenomenal. So like just starting to listen to that. I have a podcast where I teach about the Enneagram as well. It’s called living any agreement can search my name, Beatrice Chestnut. She also is an incredible Enneagram teacher and Suzanne Steele. Those are like my top mentors. I love listening to, so you can listen to podcasts, YouTube videos. But I think listening to expert teachers just teach about it is so helpful through audio because when you read it kind of like the Bible, there’s so much room for misinterpretation.
Callie:
And so when you hear a teacher articulate, like what does this actually mean? It’s just really beneficial. So you mentioned taking a test. So it’s like, yeah. How do I figure out my Enneagram type if I’m interested in this. So test are really helpful. Do keep in mind though they’re only 60 to 70% accurate of what your type actually is. And the reason is, again, we’re so complex as humans. And when we test, sometimes we test how we want to be. So when I actually took my first Enneagram test, I typed as a type eight, which eights are really good at conflict. They’re really domineering. They’re incredible leaders. That’s who I wanted to be like deep down. I wish I was so much better at conflict, but actually hate it. Like I can deal with it if I have to, but I, I will avoid it if I can.
Callie:
And that’s something I have to keep growing through. And so just keep that in mind. When you take a test, it’s a starting point and most, any grim tests like you can Google it like Enneagram free test, or you can take paid ones too, but usually give you your top three numbers. And that’s a great place. I tell people to just like start researching those three numbers and learning more about it, whether you read or listen to podcasts. So how you figure out your Enneagram type though, is you discover it like on your own. So I can’t tell windy what her motivation is in life. I can tell her she’s outgoing. She loves people. Maybe she likes being isolated sometimes. Like I can see external themes, but I can’t tell her what her motivation is like that’s between her and the Lord.
Callie:
And so that’s where you identify your own Enneagram types. So through reading, listening, learning about online types, you’ll start to hear the motivation of each type and you really will resonate with Ron, especially as you start to research more. So I mentioned like I typed as a type eight when I took a test than a type seven, but I’m actually type three. And I figured that out once I read the road back to you as well and did a lot of research and really understood the core motivation of the three, it was like, holy crap. That is me like to the T and you’ll see similarities in different numbers, but it always comes back to that core motivation of why are you doing what you’re doing? And each number is a little different as to why they do what they do. So I hope did that explain it kind of like the basis of it.
Wendy:
You are incredible. Yes. That’s just, that just broke it down to such simple, simple terms. And that really, really helps.
Wendy:
I was trying to like quick quiz myself in the moment to remember what I thought, the core motivation when I thought I was at a two or a three, but I guess I, and I don’t think I remember all I remember was that pride was a problem.
Callie:
Yeah, it is. And that’s a theme. So it’s like every human construct with pride. Right. But yes, the two struggles with the edit deeper level. So the motivation of a two is that they fear being unwanted and unloved. So they’re super serving and giving of people out of oftentimes this subconscious fear that like, if I’m not serving, if I’m not giving, if I’m not doing all these things, people won’t want me or they won’t love me. And the root of that can be pride sometimes. So it’s like, you’re actually serving, hoping to get something in return when true service is giving without expecting anything in return. So that’s where the pride struggle can come in. But it’s so crazy. Cause it looks opposite. Like two’s look like the most giving person. And sometimes that’s where it’s like externally your motive could be completely right.
Callie:
Or it could be completely wrong. And like, we don’t know again, that’s where it’s you identifying that between you and the Lord, which is so cool. And one more thing Wendy, that I want to hit on is like, if you guys want to check this out, listening, I have a mini training of how to discover your type, where it’s the process I take my clients through because it’s hard to take a test. Sometimes it’s confusing to just like read a book. And so I go through ask you questions, really explain the numbers in depth and kind of help you articulate all the wisdom with all nine types. But I also don’t overwhelm it cause there’s, you know how we said at the beginning, a lot of layers with the Enneagram, I just start with the basics. So if you guys are interested in that or if I can be an assistance to help with that, like just head over to my website, Callie, Ammons dot com, and I’d be more than happy to help you figure out your type.
Wendy:
Oh, I love it. I want to do that. I wouldn’t do that this afternoon.
Callie:
I’ll have to send it to you.
Wendy:
Yeah. And we’ll make sure we put all any of the links you want listeners to know in the show notes page. Cool. Okay. Well, I’m, we’re going to get into our points here, but that does when I, when I hear that and when I, and I’m open, like I want to explore this more and I want to learn about everything else just to make sure that that really is the one that resonates with me. But I do remember being like, yep. It, everything totally lined up. And I did this one thing when I did a course once with this guy, Dean Graziosi. So, and he, he walked us through like the deepest, deepest layers of why we do what we do. And you know, I kept asking, but why, but why, but why? And kept going deeper and deeper and deeper. And finally, when I felt like I did hit the light kind of rock bottom of it, it did leave me in this like holy smokes.
Wendy:
I, I feel like I, what I landed on was I do what I do to help families and parents and kids really, because, you know, I help parents really. I work with parents, but I really am helped by I’m helping kids. Let’s be honest, you know? And it was so no, what I just discovered was like, it was so no other kid is going to be hard to say this without getting emotional, but like no other kid ever feels like that. Rockiness of like not belonging. So it was like belonging was the base. So I don’t know if that comes in with like, it does. Right. Unwanted doesn’t love a hundred percent with twos. Yeah. So, and that was interesting, right? Because I wouldn’t have necessarily, like, I know I teach, you know, the psychology of underneath, what I teach is that, you know, the human basic human needs or the need to belong, they need to feel powerful.
Wendy:
They need to feel unconditionally loved, valuable all these things. But I don’t think I ever really put my finger on the fact that the belonging piece was my biggest driver for, I like, so that was just really fascinating. So it does seem to fall in line with that. And then yeah, pride is, is a huge thing. I have to check myself all the freaking time and say like, am I really serving? It’s been fun.
Wendy:
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Wendy:
My son has been listening to disperse, despicable me and diary of a wimpy kid at bedtime each night. In addition to his nature sounds that he uses to help himself fall asleep. And my neighbor has sent me numerous texts about how in love her son is with his Toniebox. Her exact words were, he totally gets mesmerized listening to his Toniebox. And her texts included pictures of her little guy peacefully, laying down, listening to his car’s story, which is a big deal since she just had her third child. And we all know how challenging that season of life can be when you bring home a new baby and you have other children at home to care for it too. Plus I saw firsthand when I watch these little neighbor boys one night, so their parents could speak out for a date night that this toy is so loved and enjoyed.
Wendy:
At one point we were eating pizza at the dinner table and our littlest friend who’s a little under two years old, was sitting on his knees and just couldn’t stop wiggling his body dancing along to jungle book while he happily ate his vegetables and pizza. It was awesome to watch. I’m happy to tell you that Toniebox is currently offering our community a Fresh Start Family Show listeners, 15% off a Toniebox starter kit using the discount code Toniepodcast. You can head to Tonies.com to learn more and get your first Toniebox. I can see this being the perfect birthday gift or just an investment into your own sanity mama. Cause you know, you love it when your kiddo is actually able to entertain themselves.
Wendy:
So you can sneak in a hot shower or a Pilates workout. Imagine that, all right, go check out. Tonies after today’s episode, but for now let’s get back to the show.
Callie:
And it’s been such a fun process. It’s like, if we can humble ourselves and be willing to like ask ourselves those deep questions and just be real with ourselves. It’s so cool. The growth we can experience, but it is hard cause it’s ugly to be like, oh yeah, my motive is completely selfish and it’s out of pride or for me, I mean, I could go on about all the unhealthy themes with type three. It’s not like I’m currently working through all the time and that’s the thing. It’s not like you’re going to hit a point in your life where it’s like sweet. It’s like, I’m always my healthy Enneagram type. Like it’s such an ebb and flow where I can be healthy. And then I get out of this interview and walk out there and like maybe something happens. I get some news that’s just like really startling. And I go to an unhealthy spot, but that’s the cool thing is like having the tools to know how to work through in the moment so that you can actually continue to move toward health.
Callie:
So it’s awesome that you’re aware of you’re aware of your pride and that you check yourself. Yeah.
Wendy:
Yeah. I love it. All right. Well that is also helpful. Okay. So talk to us about, I mean, you’ve touched on so much of it already Kali, but let’s just tell us your thoughts on How the Enneagram gives you confidence to understand yourself better. Again, you’ve already shared so much about that, but what would you say? What would you say about that as far as confidence goes?
Callie:
Yeah. Okay. So I’ll just give a real life example. So I grew up in the Midwest, Kansas actually, and in the culture that I grew up in, it’s just very normal for women to stay at home with their kids, for the husbands to go to work. And that’s just kind of traditional. And not that like I directly heard in my household, like you are sinful or wrong if you work full time and have a kid, but I kind of heard that message. That’s what I felt growing up. And so for years before I knew the Enneagram, I would be like, why do I have such a desire to make money? Like literally I’m just gonna be so honest, like to make money to work. Like I love going to work. I used to be a Starbucks store manager. I’ve like done several different roles in like, just like moving up in that company.
Callie:
And like, I loved it. I love my business. Like I have just always loved working and I would feel guilty for it all the time. But then when I learned about the Enneagram, so a type three, that’s my type, our core motivation is to be successful in all things. But the cool thing is that when we’re healthy, we actually use our high energy and high drive to help other people in life find success, find joy, find fulfillment. And I was like that like made me cry so much when I was reading the road back to you because I was like, that’s it like, nothing’s wrong with me, God actually put this in me and I’m actually wrong. If I don’t use my high energy and my gifts to help people find more freedom in their life. Like I can’t get this off of me.
Callie:
And like the thought of just like staying, staying home with kids is totally fine for some women. I believe they should do that. And there might be a season. The Lord calls me to that. But like I knew for me, like something didn’t feel right with that. And I kept trying to like deny it, push it back because of my experiences of growing up in this limiting belief I had that I thought it was wrong. So anyways, when I learned about the Enneagram, learned about my personality and realizing like, wait a second, I have to stop resisting this. And I have to run toward this actually. And to see how my life has just unfolded my business, the people I’ve got to meet, the people I get to work with. Like it’s just incredible. And it’s given me confidence. Like I no longer doubt, like, should I be working? Should I be making money? Like, am I evil for doing this?
Callie:
Not at all. I’m so confident in my skills and my gifts and doing that with excellence and also being present with my family and also being a mom and learning how to be a better mom. But that’s where the Enneagram can give you confidence of understanding. Like, okay, maybe you’re more emotional than other people. And you’ve been told your whole life, like you’re too sensitive. Like, why are you so sensitive? Actually God may have put that sensitivity in you for a reason. Now let’s learn how to use that in a healthy way. And so that’s where the confidence comes from, excuse me, comes from. And you’re like, oh my gosh, I’m no longer a screw up, but this has chosen to be placed within me.
Wendy:
That’s so cool. Oh my gosh. I’m I’m, I’m like selfishly wanting to understand the two more so I can like see how that applies to me.
Callie:
So like some questions, like, okay.
Wendy:
So tell me one more time, because I think that always helps listeners right? When, when you can actually give the real life examples. Right. So, okay. So tell me one more time. The main motivation is to, so I heard you say your main motivation is to use your skills, your gifts, to help others find joy and purpose, all that stuff. Right. And you said for twos, the main purpose is I heard this part of it, but there’s gotta be another part of it that it’s like we’re avoiding, wanting to feel unwanted or unloved. So what is the main driver? Is it just to avoid that?
Callie:
Okay, I’m going to break this down deeper and I’m going to give you guys a free resource too, so that if this kind of goes over your head or you’re like, what is she talking about? You can go deeper. So on my podcast, episode 61, I go through all of the core motivations through every single type and I really break this down. So that’s a great episode to go listen to it and I can send it to Wendy. So that it’s in the show notes for you guys. But so for a core motivation, let’s break this down really quick. And then I’ll explain the two. So a core motivation is made up of four components. So one is a core fear, something that we’re all running away from. So the three is being scared that they’re not successful. The two is being scared that they’re not going to be wanted, not going to be loved. The second thing to a core motivation is a desire that we all have deep within our human nature.
Callie:
And that desire for the, to is to be accepted, to want to be wanted and needed. Like they, they literally want friends and people to need them to call them. That brings them joy where other types are like, no, thank you. Like they wouldn’t want that. So that’s the need. Then there’s a core sin or weakness, which also makes up the core motivation. And that’s what you mentioned. Wendy is pride for the type two for the type three it’s deceit. And gosh, I can be super messy and gross and ugly, but it’s true. Like all of us have those things and that core center weakness is what happens when we’re operating out of our core fear. So you’re scared you’re not going to be wanted or loved. Therefore it leads to pride. I’m scared. I’m not going to be successful, which can lead to see of me putting on a facade or acting like I’m someone that I’m not because I want to appear successful.
Callie:
And then the fourth thing to the core motivation is we all have a core longing, something that we just want to hear someone say and to the two it’s that you are fully loved and wanted for who you are like period. And so, yeah, that episode that I referenced, I go through all nine types, a little bit more in depth, but that’s what makes up a core motivation is those four component components. And I hope that explained it more. So it’s like the desire and the fear and understanding like, okay, this is what I desire as an individual, but am I operating out of my fear trying to get these needs met and maybe an unhealthy way?
Wendy:
Oh my gosh. Okay. That’s so helpful.
Callie:
Go ahead.
Wendy:
What’s so interesting. Callie, is okay. So the desire to be accepted and want to be wanted and needed, which to me goes so much into like the belonging and oh my gosh, I didn’t expect this one to be so emotional this episode, this is, this probably happened so much right?
Callie:
It does. Cause if we’re talking about such deep internal things, but yeah. Let the emotions floats. Okay. Yeah.
Wendy:
Yeah. So what’s cool is that God has had me on this path over the last probably year and a half now. And I remember the exact day it started in a, in a life coaching certification program. I was in with these people. I love so much, but it was like something over so silly. I was like three minutes late. And my teacher always starts with like a meditation. You have to be there right at 9:00 AM. And I had this like very like always, always two minutes late rolling in hot, like always. And I’m just like why, but it all unfolded to like, be this beautiful conversation around like this desperateness that would like come out in me that then got to the root of like this lack of belonging.
Wendy:
And the reason why I bring it up is because what’s so interesting is when you, when I state, when I hear those things, I’m like, oh my gosh. Yes, yes. But for it took me so long to understand it. So it’s been, I want to say like a year and a half now that I’ve been like in this dance and journey with God to, and he keeps taking me deeper and deeper and I’ve been studying life coaching and parenting education work for a decade now. But this again, this last year, and it has specifically has been around like this idea of like blogging and just like, just because my teacher would say it. And one of my, one of my many teachers mentors, you know, they would say, you know, you matter just because you are.
Wendy:
And I was always like, that’s such a BS, what do you mean? So I would resist it. And I still was like, what does that even mean? I would, you know, re read Bernay brown stuff. And I was like, what does that even mean? Longing. And, and you matter just because you are, and finally I’m like, I’m understanding it, I’m accepting it. And it just feels so right. Like that’s what I long for, but I was like, I was like resisting it. And I was just like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I have to do this dance of like, and when I look back to my teenage years and as a kid, that was the massive component that I feel like was really missing, which I know as a parent educator is one of the main drivers that causes, you know, disconnection, low confidence stuff just, just can cause drama in your life is if there’s a lack of belonging.
Wendy:
Ooh, it’s just, it just is not good. And then I can now understand if this really is my number help, if that was not there. And I was striving like striving for it instead of like receiving it almost right. Like that’s been another lesson is like, I was like striving, striving, striving, trying to get it instead of just like sitting back and like receiving it and being confident in it and knowing it. Yep. Yeah. So that’s just kind of a trippy look into what’s been going on when you say all that, I’m like, oh, that’s cool. God. All right.
Callie:
And see how like it’s, it’s emotional, but it’s also like empowering and it feels so good to like start connecting the dots. And I love Wendy that you’re actually getting emotional about this because it shows how fragile the Enneagram really is. And I think that’s one of the things that breaks my heart the most is when people like weaponized any gram where it’s like, oh, stop being such a to, or stop being such a type one or kind of like making fun of people for their personalities. And like this conversation we’re having right now is showing you and listeners how vulnerable this is because it’s literally taking like a sneak peek into the hearts of people. And that’s not easy. Like it’s so hard even for ourselves to admit like, wow, I might struggle with deceit sometimes to put up an image to make me look better than I am, because I’m actually insecure of not being successful.
Callie:
Like that is so vulnerable to actually have to admit that and to let people see that maybe I’ve put that up at times. And so just as we’re learning about the Enneagram, that is one of the biggest things I encourage all of my clients, anyone I coach is that you look inward and learn about yourself and when you’re using it with other people, you’re doing it in such a loving and gentle way because it is such fragile, hard, deep work. And we don’t want to scare people away from it. Yeah.
Wendy:
Oh my gosh. And it’s just fun to like, It is, I’m like one of those severe not weird. This is how all my community of families from all over the world. I swear. They’re, they’re very similar to me. They develop this love for like this deep work, you know, I bet you were at.
Callie:
Yeah. I like can’t get enough of it. I mean, I told my husband, I’m like, literally like on Saturday, what would be fun is if we like take talk for eight hours straight, just trying to get like deep and deep and deep, he’s like, oh my gosh. And I’m like, it’s so much fun.
Wendy:
It is. I love it. Okay. That’s amazing. All right, cool. That was fun. All right. So talk to us Calloe about the, How the Enneagram Can Help You Parent Better. I know you have all the ears of my listeners now because obviously 117000% of them are parents. So tell us about that.
Callie:
Yes. Okay. I know I’m throwing so many resources that you guys I’m just when I listen to podcasts, I love when people like talk about other podcasts to listen to. So I mentioned Beatrice Chestnut at the beginning, she has a podcast episode 15. She just did a really interesting case study with parenting and the Enneagram. Basically they have like a whole panel of kids that they found out what their types were and basically asked these kids like what their experiences were from their parents based on their types, how they interpreted everything. And in this episode, they talk about like, what life is like if you’re a type two as a parent, but then also when you’re a kid as a type two, what that’s like, and they like go back and forth. And they, she really shares like some themes to be aware of and some really big strengths to lean into.
Callie:
So I found the episodes so beneficial. I’ve listened to it like twice, but with the Enneagram. So number one, going inward with yourself. If you can know your Indian type and understand yourself so much better, you can lead everyone else around you better meaning your children, your family, but even anyone you come in contact with Brian Buffini is someone I really look up to. He has a podcast, he has six kids and he always says this. He’s like, your children will watch what you do more than what you say. So of course what you say is important, but they’re watching your actions. Like if you tell your kids to pray and spend time in God’s word every single day, but they don’t see you ever doing that or modeling it, they’re probably not going to do it. And I mean, I’ve been amazed.
Callie:
My son’s three months old and I’ve been amazed at like how he already is like imitating us or energy. Like he can feel it for stress. He can feel a peaceful environment. He can, it’s just mind blowing to me. So I just want to reiterate that you doing the deep work on yourself is the best thing you can do for parenting and being able to articulate these scenes. So an example, if Wendy in front of her kids is she’s like operating out of that place of pride that we just talked about, but she actually admits that to them and was like, hold up guys. I just realized I’m actually operating out of this place because I’m scared of being unwanted and loved, but I realized that’s not fair. And I know that I am wanted and loved by you guys. And I’m sorry that I’m like being manipulative and pushing myself on you in this way, like for a child to hear their parent, like admit that weakness and to like self identify and walk through that.
Callie:
You’re modeling for them what that’s gonna look like. And you’re starting to manage yourself better with your anger, your emotions, everything that comes up with parenting. So that’s the first thing with typing kids. So this is really interesting. I, so w we talked about like, you don’t know how to type other people. Like I can’t tell Wendy what her type is. Exactly. I can ask her questions, help her get to results, but she only knows what’s within her. And so when you think of a kid that’s developing and growing, they’re really trying to figure out who they are and a sense they’re establishing a personality. Now, I believe personally that we are born as an Enneagram type. And so I think with children that you can see some really big patterns.
Callie:
I don’t want to get too far above like this conversation, but there are triads called our head heart and guts, Wendy, if she is a type two, and I’m a type three, her and I both are in the heart triad, meaning we lead with our emotionals and emotionals while emotions naturally. And we’re very in tune with our emotions and other people’s emotions. And then the head triad, they’re very logical. They use their head all the time, and that’s where they seek security. That’s five, six, and sevens, and then types, eights, nines, and ones are the guts. And they often have a lot of anger. They have very big like gut responses to things, just kind of very reactive personalities. So you can kind of see those patterns.
Callie:
But then kids, like when they’re really young, like there’s some very sensitive little kids. I mean, I was so sensitive as a child and I can look back and see like, well, wow. Like I thought everyone was like that. And I, they aren’t like, that was totally my little personality coming out. So I’m not saying like, to type your children, but to help them identify their strengths, their weaknesses, and for you to maybe mentally try to figure out like, okay, what triad are they in? Do they lead with their heart? Do they lead with their head? How can I support them in this? How do I not shame them for being too sensitive that helps them learn how to work through their emotions and handle it in a mature way. And that is going to be incredible for parenting is just trying to get to know your little person better and helping them navigate the world and themselves and help lead them to figure out their type as they get older, because it just provides like an awesome conversation ground with another human, no matter the age, when you understand yourself.
Callie:
So like my marriage, my husband’s a type five. I’m a type three completely opposite. It has just given us so much language and understanding with each other where I can walk in the room and be like, Hey, are you low energy? Or can you talk right now? Because fives have very low energy and he can be like, I have very low energy, but give me two hours and I can talk to you about whatever you want to talk about. Where in the beginning of our marriage, I’d cry and be like, my husband hates me. He doesn’t want to talk to me. He doesn’t care about my work or my day. And that’s not at all what’s happening. So yeah, that was kind of a lot, but that’s, that’s how it encouraged, like to go about it with parenting.
Wendy:
Oh gosh. That’s so, so moving. And it’s like, yeah, I’ve always, I’ve always wondered because I have a, so that all makes sense, right? Yeah. It’s like so much. Why do I even start? Because it’s also beautiful, but a yes, to the, like the personal responsibility and modeling for your kids, what it looks like to just be, self-aware be the gentle observer, redirect or pivot yourself without the shame associated, without feeling like you have to make yourself feel worse before you can act better. Like that’s something we teach parents. And when you can model that, it’s, it’s so much cleaner. And when you think that about yourself, right. That’s what I’m hearing is like, once you become aware, we all have weaknesses.
Wendy:
We all are going to sin. That’s just like part of life. So if you can be aware and be like, you know, be able to self-direct and then be able to teach your kids, like, yeah, this is part of life. Like you’re just a strong human being. And you’re going to be way more likely to be a conduit of light in this world, if you can just acknowledge and be that gentle observer. So I love all that. Well, Hey there, families, I want to take a moment to tell you about Troomi wireless and why I am so excited to be teaming up with them to support you and your family. When you use the code Fresh Start during the month of January and sign up for a discovery plan, you’ll get a free Troomi A12 kid safe device.
Wendy:
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Wendy:
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Callie:
I love that you said that too. I always tell my clients like notice yourself, but without judgment, like drop the judgment. But if you notice it, then you can move on and deal with it. You say that too. Just the whole observing yourself.
Wendy:
That’s Yeah. When we judge and shame it jacks us up, and then we do the same thing to our kids. So like the parents that I see get really stuck in not being able to move from reactive to more responsive parenting where like, they just have a hard time getting out of like the blow ups or the yelling or fear and force are hurting their kids. Like a lot of times it’s because they think you have to make yourself feel, you have to feel worse before you feel better. And so that’s, that’s like the general practice with kids with parenting. Like we always, we always say like, where the heck did we get the notion that in order to make our kids behave better, we must first make them feel worse. And, but we do the same thing to ourselves.
Wendy:
We’re like, oh my God, what’s wrong with me? I’m such an idiot. Like I swore I wasn’t going to yell and it’s 8:00 AM and I’m already yelling whatever it is. So yeah, that, that gentleness, that self-compassion is so from God, and it’s such an important element, but, but then with the, with the, like looking at the kids, not typing them, letting them do that, especially as they grow, but at the same time, like being aware, I love that. I’ve always wondered Callie, because I have such a soft spot and such a, a passion for helping families that have really strong milled kids that are such blessings in the world are our future leaders. Strong-willed kids, sensitive kids, kids that are often like labeled problem kids or all that stuff.
Wendy:
We have our daughter when she was three she’s now 13, when she was three, I was like, oh my gosh, this cannot be my life. Like this kid is out of control, disobedient, sassy, difficult, sensitive, all the things. That’s like the big reason I became an educator. And now at 13, she’s just the most, she always was the most amazing human, but she’s just thriving in life, straight, a student star athlete, all these things. And God was new when he was doing the whole time. I just needed the heck out. But I look at her, she’s obviously very strong-willed kid incredible, like desire to feel powerful.
Wendy:
And I wonder, I’m pretty sure. I think I don’t want to type her, but I think she’s a Nate. Yeah. And I wonder if a lot of these kids that get in trouble a lot or have the strong emotions or say no a lot, or have the knee jerk reactions or have trouble keeping their hands to themselves. If they are those eight, nine and ones, you know? Absolutely.
Callie:
Yeah. It usually, it’s probably a 1, 3, 7 or eight, nine are peacemakers. And they’re more like quiet go with the flow kind of people. But yes, once three sevens and eights are very bold, assertive personalities, speak their mind. Don’t they have a high drive, super disciplined. Like I think of myself as a kid, my parents didn’t teach me this. I had like a goal sheet. I would write goals every single morning. I was like a six year old. I’m like, who does that?
Wendy:
But I did like, I just, I
Callie:
yeah, I love that. You mentioned like, even as a three-year-old how she, like, you saw that personality coming out. I think the coolest thing we can do as parents, or just anyone, even if you’re not a parent, but someone in your life that you can like mentor is like, how do you highlight those beautiful things and help them just learn to use it in a healthy way, instead of like trying to just squash it completely. Like, I think about when I was a kid, if someone would have helped me learn, like my ambition and goals and everything were healthy and like, okay, let’s see how you can be ambitious toward the right things. Instead of like hurting your brother little sister or something, it would have directed that energy in such a positive way. So, yeah. I, and that’s the thing it’s like with your 13 year old, she could definitely start having conversations with you and articulating her own heart and maybe be able to identify her type alongside with you.
Callie:
But I just think, I really am cautious of like labeling people. I think our words are so powerful. And so I would never want to speak over our children that like you are a type four, and then they’re thinking that they have to fulfill this identity their whole life when they haven’t even fully understood themselves. But it is really powerful. Like if you have a kid that feels very aware and they’re curious about it, like go learn about the Enneagram with them. Like what a cool thing to do as a family. Yeah.
Wendy:
Yes. It’s such a fine line and it’s such an important distinction and, and we can, we can play around with it. Right? Like, you’d be aware of the, the triad you called it and, and resist the urge to be like, yeah.
Callie:
Exactly. Right. But learn those things, like you said, like your daughter being assertive and it’s like, okay, how do I help her work through this? Or how do I help her work through being a sensitive individual?
Wendy:
Beautiful. I love it. Okay. Lastly, How the Enneagram helps you improve the relationships around jail?
Callie:
Oh, my word. Okay. So a lot of us think that everyone thinks the same way we do right. Like I mentioned, my husband used to not listen to me in the beginning of our marriage and I’d be like, what the heck? Like he hates me. And I got that result because if I wasn’t listening to someone, it was because I just didn’t like them. I never have had like a lack of energy emotionally to listen to someone where type fives literally have like the smallest energy tank and emotionally, it takes a lot for them just to listen to someone to ask questions. And so what that does is when you can put yourself in someone else’s shoes and to actually understand like, what is going on in their internal world, I was just like, mind blown. Like when I first learned about all nine types, I’m like, people think like this, like not everyone wants to like set goals.
Callie:
Like last week my husband looked at me. He’s like, how? I don’t think you realize, like, sometimes people know what to do to improve their life, but they just don’t want to do it. So they don’t, but you don’t have that. Like you literally, you find the solution and you just want to do it. Like, that’s not like everyone. And I’m like, really? And he’s right. Like we’re all so different. And it’s not a good thing. It’s not a bad thing. It’s like, it’s how we are. And it’s, I mean, it is good. And it’s our beautiful makeup and learning to use it in alignment with the gospel. So that I think is how it improves the relationships around us is it’s of easy to get into the Enneagram and learn all about your type, which I totally recommend doing, but then kind of stopping at that. And we don’t want to do that. If we can learn about all nine types, it helps you have so much compassion, empathy, and makes you more emotionally intelligent learning how to talk to people.
Callie:
Like there’s people on the Enneagram that are overwhelmed by a lot of conversations or outgoing people. And I used to just be like, gosh, why don’t they talk to me? But now I’ve learned to like, kind of chill around those people and not intimidate them. But if I’m talking to someone like Wendy, who’s a type two, I can talk and talk and talk, and we’re just going to feed off of each other because that’s her personality. And it, I think to me, like you can love and serve people so much better when you really seek to understand them. And you realize like the world doesn’t revolve around you, not everyone is just like you and not everyone has to be like you. And if we stop trying to change people to be like us, but we empower people to be who they are. It’s just the most beautiful thing ever.
Wendy:
Oh my gosh. That is so encouraging. Wow, Callie, you are amazing.
Callie:
Thank you, Wendy. So are you.
Wendy:
Oh, well thank you. Gosh, that was so much incredible information you just shared with us. Okay. So as we wrap up, tell us where if listeners, you mentioned a few things, but if listeners want to find you, if they want to find your podcast, if they want to do the mini workshop you have, where can they find you? Where’s the best place to get in touch.
Callie:
Yeah. Okay. So if you guys go to my website, CallieAmmons.com, that is really the best place for like courses. There’s the place to figure out your type. I even have a course that goes deeper into like wanes everything. If you’re like, okay, Callie, like guide me through this. So just head over to my website and you can kind of browse through courses. I follow a non-traditional route in the business world of like, I just keep my courses open for people because people just find it and want to go through it. So it’s open. It’s not going to close. Take it when you want. And then my podcast, you can search my name, Callie Ammons on your favorite podcasting platform or living Enneagram. And then I like to hang out on Instagram at Callie Ammons. And then if you like YouTube, I also have videos over there where I do a lot of teaching about faith, the Enneagram, and just living with intention.
Wendy:
Oh my gosh. Well, thank you, Callie. Thank you for the work you’re doing. Thank you. I’m so grateful that God blessed you with your personality type to serve and bring joy to the world and help people to live life to their fullest. Thank you for using those gifts. Thank you for sharing those guests with the world and with our community today, it’s been so much fun, fun, hanging out and listeners go find Callie, give her some love and check out all of her offerings.
Callie:
Thank you so much, Wendy,
Wendy:
For links and more information about everything we talked about in today’s episode had to FreshStartFamilyonline.com/114.
Stella:
For more information, go to FreshStartFamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening. Have a great day.
Wendy:
All right, families, that’s a wrap. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I loved recording it for you. If you’re interested in joining the bonfire now is your time doors are open for a short one-week period and we’ll close on Friday, February 4th. So head now to FreshStartFamilyonline.com/join-bonfire, or just click the community tab at the top of the website. For more details, I cannot wait to welcome you with open arms to the community. See you soon at the bonfire.
