This week’s episode on the Fresh Start Family Show is a powerful one! Wendy and Terry dig deep with Amanda and Dr. David Erickson – of Flourishing Homes and Families – to educate us on how scientific findings and Biblical teachings align when it comes to disciplining our kids, and how it’s ok that our kids are under construction! (anyone remember the Children’s Church song ‘He’s still working on me’?) 

Dr. Erickson – a Pastor and Seminary Professor of Theology and Church History – and his wife Amanda – researcher extraordinaire – quickly dismantle the idea that spanking and authoritarian practices are “requirements from the Bible”. 

It’s both liberating and empowering to have Scripture and science line up to clarify important topics like disciplining children in a world where inaccurate information on the internet, family circles & even faith communities is in no short supply.

In this episode, we cover the beautiful messiness of our kids’ development in their own timing and how showing them grace, not punishment, leads to closeness and connection. 

Episode Highlights:

• The Bible is often used to justify corporal punishment, but is not actually scriptural
• There is a beautiful harmony between scientific findings and what the Bible tells us
• Having credible resources to back up what we believe matters
• The importance of studying our children and “upping our game” when things change in the relationship
• Giving parents tools in their tool box will make spankings and punishment unnecessary
• Not expecting perfection from our kids
• Showing grace to our kids is so powerful for modeling God’s grace for us
• We can forgive and have grace for our kiddos, the way that Jesus absorbed our sins for us, and create beautiful connection with our kids
• How to see so-called weaknesses like: bossy, stubborn, obsessive & dramatic as strengths

---

---

Resources Mentioned:

Instagram

Instagram post on Seeing Strengths in Weaknesses

Facebook

Flourishing Homes and Families Website 

Jesus Guided Parenting Course

---

Special thanks to Parent Playbook for their support of the Fresh Start Family Show! To learn more about this incredible parent empowerment platform, click here!

Not able to listen or want to read along with us?

Here is the episode transcript!

This episode of the Fresh Start Family Show is brought to you by our free Compassionate Discipline Learning Guide: How to Create Logical Consequences That Work with Kids of all Ages. You can grab your copy at freshstartfamilyonline.com/disciplineguide.

Wendy:
Well, hey there listeners, I’m so happy you’re here for a new episode. I’m your host, Wendy Snyder, positive parenting educator and family life coach, and I’m excited to bring you this episode today with our dear friends Amanda and Dr. David Erickson from Flourishing Homes and Families. And we had such a good talk, you guys, about how we can make sure we’re seeing the strength in our children’s weakness, which is such a really cool topic. We just had a really great discussion about it and at the end, we actually touched on why grace is superior to punishment, too. And I know you guys are gonna love this conversation.

I know you’re gonna love Amanda and Dr. David. They are a husband wife duo that is just doing incredible work in the world. They have a beautiful ministry called Flourishing Homes and Families, and they’re the founders of it. But Flourishing Homes and Families is an online ministry that empowers parents to cultivate peace, gentleness and grace in their homes with practical tools for responding to challenging behaviors that are backed by science and a theology of parenting rooted in scripture with Jesus at the center. They seek to encourage and equip parents to live out in parenting the very real grace that they’ve been given by Jesus.

And my goodness, I just love, love, love what they’re up to. It was a real honor when they said yes to being guests on our show. I have admired them for years and years. They have the biggest presence over on Instagram, so make sure you go find them there. We’ll make sure we put all their links in the show notes page, but they do, you know, they do so much light driven work in the world and I’m just really, really grateful for what they’re doing, especially because they specialize in supporting families of Christian faith who are really interested in understanding how scripture directly supports the implementation and use of positive parenting, or whatever you wanna call it, gentle parenting, connection based, relationship based firm and kind, parenting, all that, all that stuff I, I consider under the same umbrella, but it’s especially meaningful to have them on the show right now because there’s always been opposition to positive, gentle, respect based, relationship based parenting in the world.

But there is definitely an extra resistant resistance that happens in the Christian world, which is a little bit hard. Well, it’s not a little bit, it’s a, it’s really hard for me to understand. I’m always seeking to have compassion for others that are not on the same page or, or, you know, challenge things. My, my thought patterns are, or what I really believe in. I, I really do seek to have compassion and try my best to understand and just come from that angle. And I will tell you that it’s, it’s really a challenge to understand why there is such a resistance in the Christian world. But I do know that there is, and so if you happen to be a family of Christian faith, here at Fresh Start Family, we support families of all faiths, positive, gentle, respectful, firm, and kind parenting is for families of all faith of no faith.

And we, we love to go the extra mile and we have, we have a special course called Jesus Guided Parenting. And, and we just, like I said, we really love to support families in an extra format who are practicing positive parenting, believing in positive parenting, and really looking to honor Jesus in their parenting walk because there is such opposition, right? Like there just feels like there’s a heavier hammer. And I know that that is the world that David – that Dr. David and Amanda live in every day is they’re not just like they’re doing their wonderful work and, and they’re going about their day to day and they’re just brilliant. They’re brilliant educators and they’re just really inspirational on the front of being a strong like Christian family, but they’re also just fighting this fight every day.

And, and I know that takes a lot. So if you’re a family of Christian faith, make sure you go follow them and give them love and support them. And they’re just the most wonderful couple and I’m really excited for this conversation. I’m trying to get them back on the show again to, to maybe have an episode that airs in a few months to specifically speak on how we can respond respectfully and confidently to those especially brothers and sisters in Christ who oppose or resist or even sometimes it feels like an attack when it comes to the parenting style that we’ve chosen to do. And so how do we confidently and re and respectfully respond to those, you know, accusations that, well, you know, gentle parenting isn’t Biblical.

There’s been a recent outbreak of those claims on Instagram and it’s just really important for me that you feel supported, that you feel strong, that you feel rooted in truth and your faith, and that you continue to carry on with courage as you implement and you learn this work and you make it just the norm day to day way that you raise your children. It’s really important for me to, to continue to provide resources for you so you just feel strong and ready and confident to be able to respond to, to anything that comes your way. Okay? Parenting is hard enough on its own.

And then you add in that some people come along and challenge you that what you’re doing is on Godly, or what you’re doing is wrong or what you’re doing is gonna raise like, you know, entitled maniacs or what you’re doing is permissive. Like there’s a lot of claims that will come your way and I just always wanna be someone that gives you a virtual hug, like tells you to stand up, you know you got this, keep going. A lot of times if you are a family of Christian faith, you will be a little bit of a black sheep. You will probably be standing on the outskirts. I recently did a poll on Instagram just asking families, okay, so if you happen to be a family of Christian faith, do you get a large amount of resistance often from whether it’s family members or your pastoral team or you know, neighbors, friends, Do you get a lot of resistance about your positive parenting efforts, especially when it comes to discipline?

And 78% of you said yes. And then when I asked about the non-Christian world, there was still like, for those families who are not of Christian faith, maybe you’re a different faith or you know, choose to have no faith. I asked, do you receive resistance on a consistent basis when it comes to positive parenting and especially discipline? And the number was still high, but it was definitely lower. It was around let’s say 60%, but in the Christian world, that number was at 78%. And that was just from of course my 13,000 on Instagram. But I just thought it was really telling and important to look at that data.

And that’s changing like more and more families are, you know, who have grown up with that rhetoric of harsh discipline and punishments and fear and force and the narrative that the Bible teaches parents to spank and that it’s Godly to spank your children and that kind of narrative, more and more families, especially families who have been raised with that, parents who have been raised with that and are now healing from those experiences in their adulthood, more and more of them are having the courage to say no thanks, like we’re not gonna repeat that same generational painful pattern. And more and more families are coming to the table and raising their hands and say, I’d really love to learn a different way that’s still honors Jesus and still contributes to raising the next generation of good kind human souls that love God and, and you know, are contributing to a wonderful planet Earth.

And I’m not gonna hurt my kids, I’m not gonna threaten ’em, I’m not gonna use power over, I’m not gonna over control them. All these things like just that resistance that you have to that rhetoric, I just want you to know that I see you, I admire you. And so it’s just my pleasure to put Amanda and Dr. David Erickson from Flourishing Homes and Families before you today. If you are a family who really wants to know more about the theology side of things, more about scripture and how it directly supports positive parenting or gentle parenting, again, go look deep into their ministry. They have one gazillion Instagram posts that are just educational, beautiful pieces that will help you understand every scripture you could imagine.

And you know, they’ll just inspire you on a daily basis. So without further ado, you guys, help me welcome Amanda and Dr. David, Eric and Erickson to the show and enjoy this episode.

Stella:
Well, hey there, I’m Ella. Welcome to my mom and dad’s podcast, The Fresh Start Family Show. We’re so happy you’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean, Jesus, and rock and roll and believe deeply in the true power of love and kindness. Together we hope to inspire you to expand your heart, learn new tools, and strengthen your family. Enjoy the show!

Wendy:
Well hello there, families and welcome to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family Show. Help me welcome Dr. David and Amanda Erickson to the show. Welcome guys.

Amanda:
Hey, thanks for having us.

Wendy:
We are so happy that you are here. I feel like I am bubbling, like bubbling with joy to be here together with you guys. You have been on my list for so long to be able to interview. We hear from our students all the time how much they love you and are blessed by your ministry. So thank you guys so much for being here this morning. We are going to be talking about how we can see weaknesses as strength under construction, which made Terry and I crack up because we thought of Jumanji, the movie Jumanji. Have you guys seen that? Where where you talk they have all their strengths and they get,

Terry:
They get assigned like their strengths. And like Kevin Hart’s character under weakness, it says strength, it says strength is my weakness

Wendy:
And cake.

Terry:
And cake and

Wendy:
Cake. Yeah. And

Amanda:
Cake,

Wendy:
Cake cake is his weakness. And oh, it just made us giggle. But we’re gonna have a really great conversation about that. But will you guys just start us off by telling us a little bit more about yourself. Tell us about where you live, how old your kids are and what got you to this place. How has God led you to be here? Because my goodness, your ministry and what you’re doing on Instagram and all of your mentorship programs and the way you’re a blessing families is just so inspirational and meaningful and important in the world. So will you tell us a little bit about your story and how you got here and why you’re so passionate about serving and supporting families in this capacity?

Amanda:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so our parenting journey actually started many years ago. We started out as foster parents and we welcomed a sibling group of brothers, they were 10, 11, and 15, into our home and that was our like crash course in parenting. And I remember they had been with us for not very long and I told David, I was like, I know why God generally starts families with like little innocent, cute babies. Like there’s that bond gets you through the hard time. It gets you through the hard times of, you know, of the tween and teenage years. And we, at that point in time, David was pastoring and he’s a seminary professor. He teaches theology and church history.

And we were really kind of stuck in the old punitive model of parenting. And in foster care there’s, there are quite a few restrictions on, on physical corporal punishment, but you can still, you know, you can still use timeouts and loss of privileges. And that was all we knew. And it just kept backfiring and kept backfiring and just created so much tension in our, you know, in our little foster family. Well fast forward to when we had our own our own boys. They’re now six and a half and eight Elijah and Ezra. And Ezra was about 15 months old. He was squirming on the changing table. I was very pregnant with Elijah and grumpy and he wouldn’t cooperate for a diaper change and I just smacked his little bottom like, you gotta do what I say to do because I’m the mom, you know?

And of course like his face, his body registered like shock in, what did you just do? And I was, it just crushed my heart in that exact moment. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I can’t believe I did that. And I knew I did that cuz I didn’t know what else to do and that’s really a bad reason to spank and I’ve gotta have more tools. But it was actually later in the day when he was playing on the floor just doing like his little toddler thing. And I went down to sort of check on him and be with him. And as I got close to him, like he pulled away from me and I was like, Oh my gosh, I broke the bond. You know, like it, he doesn’t trust me because I hurt him. And that had never happened before in my relationship with Ezra. And that night I was talking to David and I was like, I don’t know if Ezra’s, you know, like really sensitive or if I’m just really attuned to it.

I don’t know any, I don’t know, I don’t know. But I know what I do know is we can’t rely on spanking with him. Like it has to be an almost never thing. And so like I got online, I googled toddler discipline without spanking Janet Lansbury was like the top, you know, the top link on everything that came up. And I just started, you know, kind of reading her stuff and very, very quickly I was convinced like, okay, we’ve gotta find an alternative to, to spanking this little guy. And you know, we are in the south, we were raised in conservative Christian homes. We are in, we are a cons, a fairly conservative Christian home. We’re in a very conservative denomination. David’s a pastor of theology and church history.

And, and so we are like reading all the science and it says that, you know, spanking and sort of these more punitive authoritarian practices are not ideal. And we’re reading the Bible and we’re like the rod verses and you know, how is this meshing up? So like David is like, you know what, we’re gonna do a deep dive and he just starts studying and you wanna share Oh yeah, real quick cuz you’ll, you’ll say it faster than I will

Dr. David:
Studying so much into all kinds of different things. Looking at, you know, of course I have a whole library at work, you know? Yeah. Hundreds of thousands of books. And so, you know, let me dive in, look at things and begin and be like, okay, wait a minute, you know, there’s this scholar over here saying that this is not talking about kids. I’m like, I’ve never heard this before. And you start looking more and more and like, wait, these, you know, these the, the PhDs in Hebrew, okay, they know this isn’t talking about little kids. Why do pastors not know this? Why does nobody talk about this? And, and so that, that was kind of what finally broke it through to us was really studying out, you know, Hebrews 12, the rod verses in Proverbs and being like, okay, you know, the way we have always just assumed these things mean that’s not actually sustained when you look at the text in, in Hebrew or in Greek.

And, and that was kind of what finally it’s like, okay, I can, I can do this cuz you know, for me, ultimately the Bible was the authority, right? And so, you know, if if this is what the Bible says, well then that’s what you gotta do. But if that’s not what the Bible says, then well okay, we’re having a completely different conversation now what are we supposed to do?

Wendy:
Yeah.

Amanda:
And, and it was actually that topic too that brought us to social media because we were sharing about what we were learning and, and people were like, Well, what about, you know, what does the Bible say about the rod verses in spanking? And so we would just, we were sharing on our personal pages and it got a little, it got a little sketchy and it, it, it started to feel a little unsafe and like, not the most wise thing to be posting kind of controversial things on our public, on our personal pages on Facebook. And so we just made, you know, Flourishing Homes and Families on Facebook and shared like three posts. And I told David, I was like, hey, do you wanna join me and sharing a little bit about this? And he was like, well, how many people do you think will follow us? And I was like, I don’t know, maybe like a hundred.

And it grew very quickly and people were sharing our posts. And I think that, I think a big part of it was that there was, David does have expertise in sort of authority as a, you know, having a PhD in, in theology and, and kind of bringing that academic rigor to the conversation that that has sort of been missing in, you know, in Christian spaces. And so, yeah, here we are and we have a, a large following on Facebook and Instagram and TikTok just gets abandoned because the mama don’t have time.

Wendy:
I’ve only got two arms,

Amanda:
Right?

Wendy:
Oh, amazing. And so now here you are on Instagram with a over a hundred thousand followers and oh my goodness, as an educator in this space, the, it’s not just about followers. I mean, you guys are cranking out this incredible educational information in these, I mean, there’s just in that space alone, I, I haven’t been inside of your private fa private Facebook group yet and been part of your, I think you guys have a membership too, but my goodness, you are educating in such a rich, easy to understand way. You have such, God has gifted you with such an ability to bring out these little pieces that people really have trouble understanding or just ideas that will help them really be able to implement things in an easier capacity.

And so what you’re creating is just beautiful and I love it. And I’m just so thankful that you guys had the courage to step into this calling because my goodness, it is intense, right? Like it is, it blows my mind. I just, I still, I think I’m gonna even correct myself and not even say I don’t understand. I am, I am learning every day and understanding why, how we got to this place where the majority misunderstands and has been guided to do things with kids in a way that is the opposite of what we teach, right? Like, I am learning every day how this happened, how we got there, and it breaks my heart, right?

And so my goodness, just thank you, thank you, thank you. And it’s like extra, extra special bonus to have a man in the space, right? Like, that’s why it’s so fun to have Terry here and David here because we need more men in this space, right? Men in the positive parenting, gentle connected parenting space overall, and then especially the Christian space, right? To stand tall, that gentle connected firm kindness in a home is actually what is strong is actually what is Godly over, you know, the fear, the force and the intimidation and the power and all that kind of stuff. The overpowering I should say. So it just means the world to me, what you guys are doing, thank you from the bottom of our heart.

It has been so fun this year, especially to just get to know more and more educators in this space. I think in 20 2022 and 2021, I felt just low and like, man, there’s just not a lot of us, right? And now I’m like, oh, there’s – God’s building, like a lot of us that are teaching accurate, Biblical, and incredibly life-changing educational work to families of all faith and especially of Christian faith. And it just, yay,

Terry:
Yes. Amen to that.

Wendy:
Yes, Amen to that. Awesome. And so on a day to day basis, you guys have your Instagram, you have, you have creating beautiful content there and then you have families all over the world that you mentor, right?

Amanda:
One thing that we really love doing is we have, we put out workshops in – they’re, they’re one hour workshops each month and we do a theology or sort of like a theology of parenting. And that’s something that we noticed, you know, early on in our own journey is that our theology and what we actually believed about Jesus, about God, about his heart for the world, did not match how we were raising our children. Like how we were raising our children matched Christian culture, right? But it didn’t actually align with what we believe about God and what we say we believe about God. So one aspect of our workshops is just really kind of helping, especially Christians recognize like we can form and craft and create a theology of parenting that aligns with our belief about God as our Father And kind of work through some of the, the more theological aspects of that and academic aspects of that.

And then we also have a real practical workshop every month as well where it’s like, all right, yeah, I’m on board. Like I believe you, what do I do? You know, what do I do when my kid doesn’t wanna cooperate? You know? So we do, we do have those two workshops every month and it has allowed us to connect just like you with people all over the world and to, to get to know families and their hearts and their struggles and their successes. And it’s just an honor to be co-laborers, like you said, on in this Kingdom mission with you guys and so many others.

---

Well hey there families! I am pausing this episode to invite you to a free one hour workshop that I am hosting this month all about disciplining with compassion, connection and firm kindness. If you want to save your seat you can head to the website freshstartfamilyonline.com/discipline. You can save your seat there, but in this free one hour workshop I will teach you three steps to building a strong, compassionate, firm and kind tool kit that works with kids of all ages. You guys this is one of my favorite subjects to teach on besides power struggles – I love that one too – but oh my goodness you guys empowering you to embrace a compassionate discipline mindset and to let go of a punishment-based mindset is my jam and I cannot wait to support yourself head on over freshstartfamilyonline.com/discipline to check out the dates and the times that I’m offering this completely free one hour workshop and I cannot wait to see you at class.

---

Wendy:
Yes, it really is cuz it, I mean, I really believe that this has the power, this is the like to change the world. If we can change the way these children are being raised, oh my gosh, I just, every day I’m like, God, I’m like you, I know, I can see it. I can see your vision. Like it’s, it’s happening. And that is really just so powerful. Okay, you guys, one more thing before we get into our subject matter about seeing weaknesses as strengths under condition, under construction. I keep saying conditions. Tell us a little bit about how you integrate the science into this. So research and, and things like that. How do you use science to really back up what you’re teaching?

Right? Cause I think and, and tell us from like your, from a Godly perspective, right? How you see science, I think a lot of times science gets a bad rap in the Christian world, right? But really, I, I always am like, hey God, give us psychology and science and and medicine to understand our bodies and our brains and how human beings are wired to work, right? His beautiful design and science for a whole other reason. But if you could speak to that, David, it’d be great to hear.

Dr. David:
We believe that God created this whole world and you know, God tells us in the Bible that this whole world reveals himself. He, he, he speaks to us through his world now, maybe not as clearly as when he speaks to us in the Bible, but he, he, he shows who he is. This is Romans 1, this is numerous Psalms, you know, the heavens declare the wars of God. And you know, we’ve just, you know, recently seen, you know, like the James Webb space telescope and that’s all been extremely exciting seeing just the vastness of everything that God has created. But, you know, and, and so when people study the world around them, they should see God.

Now we’re still sinners, we’re still imperfect. But you can discover all kinds of things and what you should see, like when you read your Bible about parenting and see what the Bible says about parenting, that should match up with what a psychologist or a neuroscientist is going to learn. And if they don’t match, then something’s being misunderstood. Either we’re misunderstanding the data that we’re getting or we’re misreading the Bible. Okay? And both of those are possibilities. And so for us integrating science into what we do is, is really no problem at all because we expect to find this beautiful harmony between what scientists are discovering and what the Bible tells us.

And when we look at what the Bible actually tells us without coming in with a bunch of assumptions about what this has to mean or what this, this does mean, and we really look at it and study it out and then look at what science tells us about parenting, it’s pretty much the same thing. Really what it is, is science is giving us kind of flushing out the details of the principles the Bible is giving to us. So, you know, if if the, if one of the principles coming out of like Ephesians 6 is to watch your child’s emotional reaction to how you are disciplining and training them well that leads right into things like connection parenting and, and, and being highly aware of of how what you do.

And, and you know, neuroscience tells us, well you do this, it causes these things to fire off. You do this, it causes these things to fire off. Well some of that’s not good. And, and so, you know, when Paul tells us, don’t stir up anger in your children, Well guess what? Science backs up and, and gives more detail on how that works in the day to day life of, of parenting. Okay. In that, you know, this specific thing is, is going to provoke this kind of reaction to your child. So don’t do that. And you can’t find that in the Bible, but you can find it as people study humans and come to know us better and better.

Wendy:
Mm. That’s awesome. And then I’m, and then as far as like studies and research about like, you know, not think like not using corporal punishment in the home, you guys really match those up too, right? Like as far as what the researchers are finding about the detrimental effects of using fear force harm, humiliation, and pain with children, you also cite that in connection with everything. Right?

Amanda:
Right. I’m, I’m more of the researcher on the science side and I started doing that just because it was, it was more time efficient for me to, you know, put, I was doing the research anyways, you know, for our content. It was more efficient for me to put the resources directly on there than to go back and answer all the questions that were like, But where did you learn this? And can you prove what you just said? So I started putting, you know, putting this, the science just right there kind of as like a resources or work sided at the end of a, of some of the slides because it provided, you know, for the people that wanna do the research on their own. And I, I would encourage that, like, I don’t think anybody should take just what you or I say about parenting or scripture. Like do, you know, do the do do the work and the, and the diligent work of studying and learning and exploring and discovery.

But for those who want to do that, like there’s, there’s the sources right there. You can go and learn and see what it says and, you know, evaluate for yourself. And, and I think that provides, you know, I think it also provides sort of an avenue of exploration for the parents who are like, I, what you’re saying makes sense, but I just don’t quite believe you or I still have these reservations and, and really allowing them to go straight to the source and, you know, and see how were these studies, you know, what were the strengths and weaknesses of these studies and, and have the opportunity to evaluate for themselves.

Wendy:
Yes, yes. I love that because it is so, it’s normal for to challenge, right? Here we are, we’re raising children and we’re teaching parents like, hey, it’s good if you have a child who challenges you. You want that because here we are to grow up to be adults who are running ministries and organizations who are challenging what we’ve been told, right? And we’re raising our hands and saying, We actually have a different viewpoint here and we would like you to listen and be able to have conversations around this, okay?

Amanda:
Yeah. You know, anybody can put anything on the internet too. I mean, we can, we can smack anything up on a meme and put it up there and people will believe it. And I think that it just adds to, to credibility and especially like the longevity of this kingdom work. When we have the, when we have the resources and the science to back it up. It’s not just, you know, this is just what I think is the best thing or you know, here’s a, here’s a pretty meme, we’re gonna smack it up there cuz it’ll go viral. You know, providing the, you know, really the foundation and the roots in scripture and in science. It just, it really, I think it’s, it, I think that’s the foundation of what this particular mission work that we are in. Like, it’s going to allow the snowball effect to just keep growing because it’s at its core, it’s got the necessary information to back it up.

It’s not gonna come apart at the seams at some point because somebody figures out, oh, there was nothing there.

Terry:
Well I’m sure like there’s gotta be so many exciting points of discovery for both of you too cuz you’re, you’re constantly learning. You’re not just taking like where you stand today and just trying to, you know, put that out to people. It’s like you’re constantly building on the things that you’re discovering and sharing it along the way and backing it up and, you know,

Wendy:
And correcting, right? Like correcting yourself if you have thought something and then you learn a different way. I think that’s so missing. Right? And the Christian space is like so many maybe pastors that speak this and then they, they never have humility to come back and say, actually you know what, we’re realizing that that’s not accurate information we’re giving you.

Amanda:
Yeah.

Wendy:
That’s part of the journey, right?

Dr. David:
Yeah. Well, and I mean, parenting is a, is a journey of constant learning because our kids are constantly changing, right? As soon as you think, oh, I got it figured out, we’re we’re at a good place – something changes, you know, and now you have to figure out what’s, what’s what’s happening now. And so, you know, just the expectation of, I I need to be constantly studying my child and I need to be constantly, you know, upping my game and, and and getting better at, at what I’m trying to do because you know, a lot of times we get stuck, right? We get stuck in a responding to our child in a particular way and usually that worked when we started, right?

And, and then something changed and, and they outgrew it or the dynamic doesn’t work anymore and, and we have to figure out cuz we’re the adult, right? We’re the ones that have to figure out, okay, what what do I need to do to change to, to get this relationship back on track?

Terry:
Yeah. I think just acknowledging too that like, you know, parenting’s gonna be kind of messy business no matter what approach you take. So you can take the approach where it’s, you know, very rigid in a way that like, you may not have a lot of connection, you may not have a lot of growth, but you’re just gonna stick to these same five things that you hope work from age zero to to 18 and just hope for the best. Or you can say, you know what, I’m, I’m actually, since it’s gonna be messy anyways, I’m gonna dive in. I’m gonna learn, I’m gonna adapt, I’m gonna connect, I’m going to form a relationship that is gonna grow over time. I’m gonna learn so much more that way. And I think that’s kind of a point, you know, whether it, I mean I think it’s, whether you’re studying scripture or a parenting, it’s kind of a similar thing.

You’re like, well I’m either just gonna kind of put that in a boxer in the corner and say it’s gonna be the same today as it is tomorrow, as it is the next day. Or I can say, you know what, it might change over time. I might learn something more. I might add something to it. I might make a mistake. I might have to like bring myself to the table and say, you know what, what I thought yesterday, I don’t know, I might need to be cleaned up a little bit, but I’m gonna to be dedicated to being in this relationship to growing and being connected and engaged from here to eternity.

Dr. David:
Yeah. Cause it

Wendy:
Yeah. Cause it – go ahead David-

Dr. David:
Is, you know, we want Christian parents creating relationships of honor with their children. I mean that’s what, when Paul talks about, and I mean, just go the 10 Commandments, honor your father and mother. Like that’s, that’s what we want. We want parents creating relationships with their children that make it easy for their children to honor them. But that starts not with the kid, but it starts with the parent. Okay? Creating that relationship that, you know, is, is not just about when they’re three years old and not just about when they’re 13 years old, but you know, we’re talking about when they’re 33 years old, right? We, we want to build a relationship that heads into a lifelong trajectory of respect and honor for parents and for other people too.

You know, that, that that doesn’t just benefit in one relationship, it benefits their entire life.

Wendy:
It’s so true. And in our faith walk and in our parenting walk, at the end of the day, it really boils down to the relationship, right? Like every day pouring into that relationship with Christ and pouring into that relationship with your kids. And it’s just a beautiful like point focus to have, I promise we’re gonna get into these weaknesses in a minute, but we just are like on a roll to like, just get to know you guys and it’s so awesome. So I know Terry has a question too before we get going, but one more thing I wanna ask you guys is like, speak to the courage part of this to be kind of the black sheep, right? Like to be in that space because you guys, and you know, we are definitely not the norm teaching, right?

In the, in the Christian space there’s just the majority of teachers are teaching. We might have, we do have a lot in common. We have a lot in common with people teaching parenting in the this space until we get to discipline, right? And then it’s like heartbreaking cuz we just go, we diverge on such different trails and it really, you know, it’s just one aspect, but it’s also everything. Right? And then as men too, like you David, you and Terry just being like, there’s not a lot of men in this space either who are pouring into every day having an intention to, to grow and learn and prioritize being gentle and connected with their kids over in control and overpowering, right?

So talk to us a little bit about the courage you guys call on or have every day to be, – let’s just use the term black sheep – confidently, I don’t know, every day. Talk to us about that because the people listening, they’re, you know, they’re stepping into that same thing too. Most of most of our listeners who are of Christian faith are at a church where it is being preached the opposite thing, right? So, so I think they’re really gonna glean from your courage to be different.

Amanda:
The first thing that comes. Okay. Like we could go in so many different directions

Wendy:
Yeah.

Amanda:
on talking about, you know, being very public about parenting in an alternative way because it does get messy and ugly. And I’m sure you’ve experienced it as well, but there, you know, it can, it can kind of get scary sometimes. But the one thing that we decided is like we can we get to choose our hard, you know, we can do this hard work of being very public in that we are parenting completely opposite of how we were raised and what, you know, most of our friends teach and do and our what our church teaches and does. We can, you know, come to the table with compassion, with grace recognizing, you know, you, you don’t know what you don’t know.

They don’t know what they don’t know. So there’s like, we we with with people who disagree with us or who do or who don’t, their parenting, their discipline does not align with ours. We try and really hold the same compassion and connectedness with them that we do with our children when our children are not, you know, behaving or aligning with what we want them to do. You know, like we, it is, we’re gonna talk about this later, but it’s grace that transforms hearts. It’s not condemnation, it’s not blame and shame, it’s grace. And, and that is true when we talk with, with people who disagree with us on our parenting, but choosing our heart, we, we obviously made the decision, you know, to go ahead and be very, be in a very public space with being a black sheep as you said.

But the, the more that we spoke about it in the more that our hearts were convicted, we could do this hard thing or we could do the hard thing of watching the people that we know stay in, in this space of parenting where they don’t know what they don’t know. You know? And it was kind of the thing like if we don’t share with them who is, how are they going to hear about it? And we didn’t, I, I’m sure probably some of our friends might think that we came in, you know, like guns a blazing in some conversations. But in general our heart was very tender and we tried very hard to be compassionate and really like, well have you ever considered or have you ever heard or I’m curious, you know, just like we do with our children

Wendy:
Yeah.

Amanda:
Because we didn’t wanna just come in and be like, you’re doing it all wrong and we’re doing all right. Like, at the time our kids were like two and three years old, so why are you with a 13 year old gonna listen to me with a three year old? You know? I understand. For me it’s choosing, you know, choosing our heart and more and more it became, this is the thing we can’t not talk about. Like yes, we get a lot of pushback and yes, we’ve had very difficult conversations with, with people in real life and people that we’re in community with and there’s been tense moments, but in general we both just feel so compelled and so called by God’s grace and goodness into this, into this mission and this kingdom work that it, we can’t not talk about it.

Dr. David:
Yeah. And I would say one thing that one of the ways when you are parenting differently is to just share ideas with people, right? Like so you know, you can come in like spanking’s bad and here’s the five bullet points on why you should never do it. And if you have a really strong relationship with that person, that might work. But for most people, that’s never gonna work. You, you kind of have to share with like, hey, have you considered trying this with your, with your child? Like, and, and give them tools in their toolbox so that spanking or timeouts or whatever become pointless, right?

Where, where they finally realize like, I don’t need this. Okay. And, and of course, you know, another part of it is, you know, just being a real parent with, with other parents and that doesn’t mean being a perfect parent. Like that’s, you know, we all like, well if my kids were perfect, you know, they convert everybody. Our kids are never gonna be perfect cuz they’re kids and that’s not their job. But, you know, people will see as, as we parent in front of them, like, wow, they, you know, Yeah. When their kid was three it was kind of wild cause you know, they were three. But now that they’re, you know, six, it’s like, wow, I think what they’re doing seems to work.

And, you know, and so it’s, it’s a slower process, but it, it’s okay and and it’s okay to not be outspoken too. You know, we’re, we’re strong willed people Yes. Other people’s opinions of us. It’s not like they never affect us, but that doesn’t change the course of what we’re doing. And that’s been true since basically we were born. Yeah. So, and not everybody’s like that. Okay. And, and it’s okay to quietly do the thing with your family and share when you have opportunity and that’s it. You know, if if that’s what God’s called you to do, do that.

Amanda:
Yeah. I will say too, you know, just for a practical thing for parents who are trying to look for more authoritative parenting friends, so positive or connected, gentle parenting friends, we actually, when we very first started down this journey, gentle parenting wasn’t even really a term, but I, we found sort of a group of friends that were sort of local to us within about an hour in the more natural alternative living Facebook groups. Like they’re, they’re already bent towards doing things a little bit off the main beaten path. And so like I went in there and I asked a couple of questions that kind of were not outspokenly about gentle parenting, but kind of under the surface.

And people were like, Oh yeah, have you, are you familiar with Janet Lansbury? And like started naming people that I was like, Oh, hold up other people I know, know about her. And so that was able, we were able to sort of form a community and we don’t have absolutely everything in common and you know, there’s different faiths and different beliefs in, you know, in those, but if you’re looking to build a community where you’re like, I feel so alone in this, I need to find a friend. We found that it was, it was a bit easier to find parents who were on a similar path, you know, in a more natural living space because they’re already willing to do things sort of off off the beaten path.

Wendy:
Yeah. Yep. So helpful.

Amanda:
Oh, okay. Real life community.

Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda:
And, and just having, just having, you know, even just one or two friends in real life, they’re like, Okay, what do I do? You’re doing great. I’m not doing great. I’m doing great. You’re not doing great. We wanna encourage you and have play dates where we know nobody’s gonna spank their kids in front of my kids. You know, like it was, it was really helpful it felt less isolating.

Wendy:
Yeah. Oh, so good. Yeah.

Terry:
Okay. I wanted to ask you guys something too because you know, obviously this is a podcast that people are listening, but a big part of your message is also, you know, the visual and graphic art you guys use on social media to help communicate the message. Is that, are you guys doing that art?

Amanda:
That’s mine, yeah.

Wendy:
Oh my gosh, Amanda!

Terry:
That’s killer! That’s awesome.

Wendy:
Terry’s an artist.

Amanda:
Oh,

Terry:
It definitely is, is a, a beautiful bow to put on everything, but I mean, I, I mean Instagram and I mean social media in general, I mean, it’s just such this like blend of, of visual and verbal and so yeah, it definitely helps, you know, land those messages when you’ve got something beautiful and cohesive like that. So props to you.

Amanda:
Thank you. I started doing that about a year and a half ago because I was starting to get burnt out with making social media posts and I just kind of did one just to see how it went and it was so life giving to get to be creative at the same time of the, you know, the writing and sort of this heavy topic. And I was like, whoa, if I can be creative and you know, and sort of merge these two together, this is, this is gonna be a breeze for me because the creativity was life giving and then it was an outlet, It was, you know, all the happy hormones coming down into my brain. Yeah. Super cool. And so, yeah, so that I’ve kept it up. Yeah. Because it is, it’s such a, a life giving thing for me to be able to do. So thank you so much for the encouragement on that.

Wendy:
Okay, well you, you need to put together a show or a book one day with your art or something because that is really powerful. It’s really, really powerful. Okay, awesome. Well, we’ve gone a little over with our chit chat in the beginning. I know we started recording a little bit late, so we’re gonna, we’re gonna touch these points a little bit fast today because of course I want listeners to go over to your Instagram, we’ll make sure that we post this particular post or we include this particular post in the show note so they can easily go read everything that you guys spoke to. But top level, just talk to us just about the mindset shift behind, you know, and it was so nice you guys, because as I was preparing for this interview, this is the coolest thing about teaching, right?

It always blesses your own family and you as a person, right? So last night I had, we had a situation with our 14 year old where there

Terry:
Was like a lot of construction under construction. Yeah.

Wendy:
Oh, she’s amazing. She is who God has just blessed us with to get us into this work. And every day she is teaching us, right? God is teaching us through our experiences. But you know, there might have been a little bit of pride and arrogance going on at the dinner table and we had this conversation afterwards and she has a tendency to negate. So she’s our power kid, our strong willed kid, significant, she loves to feel significant, strong desire to feel powerful, strong desire to feel valuable, strong is an understatement. But anyways, so, so as we were talking, I was able to spin this as like, hey, these are your, anyway, I always say this to her, but it was just extra in me last night preparing for this of like, these are beautiful traits about you and this is like, you have a tendency to, to negate a lot.

She’ll make, she’ll make you wrong. Whether it’s like, this hat is gray. And she was like, Actually that’s not gray. You know, it’s like a, it is a God-given gift. And so that just kick us off real quick with the mindset behind seeing your kids’ weaknesses so to speak, because it’s so darn easy for us to see the weaknesses in everything in life, right? And instead start to look for the opportunity to see them as a possible strength under construction.

Amanda:
So we also have a very spirited, strong-willed, feisty, feisty, all of the work little guy. And this was something that really I think the Holy Spirit put in into my heart one time when I was dealing with him, because I’ve, I in the moment was feeling like kind of powerless or disempowered as a parent because he like your daughter, you know, he does love to feel powerful and to use his power. And he was very, very direct with me one time and I in the moment this saying from Brené Brown, that ‘clear is kind’ like God put it into my head. And I was like, he was direct, he was clear, this is kind, I’m hearing it as defiant and as rebellious and as trying to push all my buttons.

And that filter is mine, not his. Like he is actually speaking in a way that is good and healthy for healthy co for healthy relationships to speak with clarity and to draw clear boundaries. And he’s an itty bitty little kid. He’s doing it in an immature way. God designed him to be immature. And so it was just one of those like kind of light bulb moments that came on and I was like, okay, I actually need to take off this filter of all of my feelings about what he is doing and how he’s behaving and recognize there is, this is good and this is healthy and normal and wouldn’t it be actually so helpful if more people were so clear with me instead of me trying to figure out what it is they’re actually trying to tell me.

You know? And so it just kind of flipped a switch for me in that a lot of times the things that we see as, as negatives or as weaknesses or as misbehavior, as immaturity, like it’s really a grand beautiful thing that is still under construction and it needs to be guided and it does need to be developed. I’m not saying like at three years old, their, their clearness with boundaries, you know, is is kind in the way that Brené Brown says it’s kind, okay. Like it’s not, they’re three, it’s a little rough around the edges, but just to recognize like we’re actually starting with a great foundation of, of a, of a strength that needs to be built up then from, from where we’re starting with instead of like, shut this down and try and build on something completely different.

Like let’s take what we have and build on top of it cuz it’s a foundation that God gave them with a purpose. And that’s kind of how we have worked in our own hearts to see the things that sort of, that kind of come at us in rough way. Like we perceive it as rough to recognize like, okay, there’s, you know, weaknesses and strengths can often be two sides of the same coin and Yep. How we take what we see as a weakness and how we cultivate it and how we nurture it and how we guide it. We can take that and then turn it into a, into a beautiful strength that is going to not only empower the child, but then actually empowers the, the relationship to be one of mutual respect and honor because mom and child, dad and child, husband and wife are both operating their God-given strength instead of trying to suppress them because somebody’s uncomfortable with it.

Wendy:
Yup.

Terry:
Yeah. It, it reminds me, it’s like, and it’s usually when we can get some sort of like, space from our own emotions or, or just kind of remove our, like our triggers and things from it and just kind of see it for what it is you’re like, what’s being revealed to me here. And sometimes this messy weakness, – I’m putting air quotes, – but this, this thing gets presented to you and it just takes some perspective to look at that and be like, I can work with that.

Wendy:
Yes,

Terry:
I can, I, I can see, I can see this as something more than just the inconvenience or the way that it’s meshing with my emotions at the time or the time of day that it’s happening, whatever. It’s like, especially when there’s things that like, seem to be a common theme and they keep popping up. You’re like,

Wendy:
Right,

Terry:
Maybe this is something that I, I, you know, God is trying to reveal to me to say, you know, this is, this could actually be one of the most powerful things that this kid has. They just need to, some, we just need to mold it, you know, or we just need to like, you know, nurture it in a way instead of like you said, like just snuffing it out.

Amanda:
Yeah. Yeah. And Terry, I love what you said. You said mold it and a lot of times I think what we wanna do is we actually wanna like cut this behavior off because we perceive it as bad when, when really, like you said, like we, I can work with that, you know? Yeah. Like we can mold this and, and send it, you know, kind of redirect the target, but using the same tools that God has built into our kids, you know, like yeah, we need to shift the, shift the target a little bit and we’re gonna teach you to do that. And also as parents, we need to remember, you guys are in the thick of it too, where our kids are different ages from yours, but this is not a let’s fix this problem right now type of thing. We’re talking about years and maybe decades of shifting and molding and guiding these strengths into maturity.

Maturity doesn’t happen overnight. Nothing matures overnight anywhere in nature, right? And so we need to recognize, we need to give our children the opportunity to grow, grow at a pace that God designed for them instead of just like trying to fix the problem that we see right here in this moment.

---

Hey families! Quick pause to thank Parent Playbook for their continued support of The Fresh, Start Family Show and to tell you about the wonderful work they are doing to inspire and support parents. You heard us interview them a few months ago, but I just love the mission they have to help parents feel confident in their parenting walk so that they can create a positive future for themselves. And the next generation.

So I wanna know, have you gone and downloaded this app yet? It’s free to download for both Apple and Android users and it’s free to use. All you need to do is simply head to the app store and search Parent Playbook. Founded with parent empowerment in mind, Parent Playbook is an app that puts the advice and expertise of parenting educators, life coach and family advocates into the hands of busy parents who are determined to get answers to their parenting questions and desperate to feel more peace, confidence, and empowerment in their daily life.

The social market platform takes all the good things from social media and combines it into one great app for parents. Think the organizational aspect of Pinterest, the community feel from Facebook and then the Instagram with all the inspiration, education, tips and motivation you love when you see folks like me post educational parenting content. Minus all the toxicity and cluttered random information that leaves you feeling overwhelmed and more unsure. Again, this app is free to download and free to use, but only for a limited time as the Parent Playbook team is capping the first round of downloads to help manage growth effectively and sustainably.

Once you’ve downloaded it, check it out and then drop me an email. I’m [email protected] and tell me what you think. If you love it, awesome, I’ll pass on the praise to them and if you feel like it’s missing something, I’ll let them know so they can make quick improvements. You don’t wanna wait another day to get this support system into your pocket. So go search Parent Playbook on the app platform or the app store and push download now. All right guys, back to the show.

---

Wendy:
So good. There’s a few things that come to mind just hearing you say you guys share all that is number one. You know, I love the idea of looking at it as a filter, right? Like, and especially those who are on Instagram, you, you know how easy it is to get used to throwing on a filter, right? It almost like it’s just everyone can associate with that term and whether it’s feelings or filter or it’s conditioning, right? Like it’s cultural conditioning to start to just go, Oh, this is my conditioning, right? Like, what is that quote? The world is not as it is, but how we have been conditioned to see it, right? Maybe it’s Steven Covey, I don’t know who that quote is, but it’s how we’ve been conditioned to see it, right?

So this challenge every day, and I, I love, I mean I would love to just sit around and like live life, just easy peasy on a beach in Mexico. But I also love challenges too, right? I think it’s good for our brain to be challenged on a consistent basis, right? My grandmother held Alzheimer’s. I am really looking to avoid having Alzheimer’s. And so every day I’m looking for ways to challenge my brain to still operate in a high functioning capacity and looking at spinning things in a different way and spinning sounds so like novel or like whatever, it’s lighthearted, but really like working to see where you have a filter on and be able to see the opposite of what you’re seeing or, or really like disprove the untruthful way you’re looking at something I think can become really fun and good for our brain, right?

It’s like the, like how, how is, as you guys say in that post, how is dramatic actually, where is the strength in that? Or obsessive or if, if we have these strong-willed kids who are so stubborn, right? Like how can we challenge our brain or bossy, How can we challenge our brain to really see, okay, as you said Terry, what is being revealed here? And then last thing I was gonna say is it just makes me thank the scriptures. I don’t have the memorized, I bet you do David. But like scriptures around how like just being thankful for our struggles. Like thank you God for this struggle. And because it’s always an opportunity to learn and grow, especially when you have discipline in your home that is compassionate, kind, connected, gentle firm, all the things, it’s always an opportunity to grow.

There’s always something revealed not just with your child but for you. And then also the second scripture that I think of is just how, like in our weakness lies our ability to rely on God. And so if you are able to identify the weakness, so to speak, whether it’s cake or bossy, and then start doing your own work to see it in a different light and then ask God to bless you through that, that weakness, so to speak. There’s just such opportunity to growth for growth. And I don’t, I think because of time we’re not gonna be able to go into all of them that you guys have laid out.

But listeners definitely go over, we’re gonna make sure we, we post this, this link. So you can see Amanda and David really speak to, if you feel like your child is dramatic at times, if you feel like they’re bossy, if you feel like they’re stubborn, if you feel like they’re obsessive at times. You guys such do such a beautiful job of really speaking to those individually. But I think we, we wanted to one just as like kind of to wrap this episode up, We could talk to you guys all day long, but there was a quote that you had Amanda, that really touched us. You know, cuz so much of I think parents who find gentle connected relationship based firm and kind parenting that they struggle with is the discipline side, right?

And I think we talked about how we do get, we, we go down a different path, what than what is often taught in the church. But you had a quote around how grace is always going to be superior to punishment. And so just to leave off families, you know, just a little insight into what you teach. I know you guys probably just like I do go deep in the, like you said, the theology side but also the strategy side of like, okay, well if you’re not gonna use punishment, which is what again is usually taught that that’s the Godly way and but if you’re not gonna use punishment then here’s what you can do on a compassionate discipline front and here’s why it works so well.

Here’s why it’s Biblical. Here’s all the things. But if you could just speak to that, I think listeners will be really blessed and again filled up with courage to do things differently. Especially in the discipline department.

Amanda:
I had one from last week. It said that God enables his children to turn from sin by not holding their sins against, against them. There’s nothing punishment can do that. Grace can’t do better. Was that the one?

Wendy:
That’s it. That’s the one. Yeah,

Amanda:
Yeah. You know, one thing this was, this kind of goes back to our discussion about when we were really getting very real with our hearts and we were really tender like, does does what we believe about God actually align with how we are raising his image bears? You know, and we see this cycle in the Old Testament of rewards and punishment and if you obey me you’ll be blessed. And if you don’t obey me, this is what is going to happen. And we see that relationship with, with Yahweh in Israel and you know, sometimes when I share about this people

Dr. David:
and it doesn’t work

Amanda:
and it doesn’t work and some I just wanna say, because we get pushback on this, people are like, Well are you saying that God didn’t know it wasn’t going to work? Well no, you know, we can go all the way back to creation and Adam and Eve in the garden and like the did God not know card, It just doesn’t work. God allows his people to experience the full weight of humanness in individually and in community. And we have lessons that have, we’ve been learning for thousands of years and in the Old Testament, rewards and punishment don’t work. And if they did we would not need the cross. It is the cross, it is grace that transformed lives and then transformed the world, right?

And so we see in, in this narrative of God’s story and how he relates to his people, we see it modeled for us that this way of trying to correct behavior and make people do the right thing, it just, it never works. It’s never sustainable. And yeah, in Israel’s history there’s gonna be sometimes where like they repent and they turn from their ways and then they were blessed and then they went back to doing the idolatry to worshiping other gods and to, you know, not following God’s commandments. And so we see it like they’re short term behavior modification in the nation of Israel when they are punished and rewarded, right? But there’s never a heart change that has a lasting impact until we get to Jesus on the cross.

And so it’s something that we just have to remember in, you know, in our home and what we teach others is gra – it’s grace that transforms lives. It’s not punishment. Punishment might motivate someone to not do the wrong thing, but it’s grace that motivates us to do the right thing. And we live that out as faithful followers in Jesus because of what he’s done for us and because of what he’s doing through us. Yeah,

Dr. David:
And I mean one of the things that we’re passionate about is just encouraging parents to model God’s grace to their children, right? You can be the first one that teaches your child about God’s grace, not in like the Sunday school, here’s the right answer, but in actually understanding it and knowing it and having experienced what it means to, to be given great grace and, and so that when you grow up that way, you know who God is. You don’t have to unlearn and relearn. You know, one of the things that, you know, since I teach theology something that trips up theologians a lot and theology students a lot is assuming God’s like their dad because their dad was imperfect in so many ways.

And it’s like, no, God’s not like that. God’s better. And and that’s true even, you know, in, in this space I’m not a perfect dad, I never will be, but you know, I want to model for my children a better picture of who God is like so that when they read it in the scriptures they intuitively grasp it and be like, yes I know that’s exactly who, who I what I know about and that’s exactly who I want to, to you know, spend the rest of my life following. Not because I’m afraid of his punishments but because I am loved by him. And I feel that deep in my soul.

Amanda:
And I think too where parents, you know, and we did as well, like there’s a bit of a hangup because we automatically think of grace as a lack of accountability or as permissiveness. And that’s where your tools and your mission and your work and ours as well, we equip parents. Like no, there’s still accountability. There are still, you know, the consequences of especially interpersonal relationships, those natural consequences are wise, wise teachers if we know how to listen to them. And so, you know, I do understand like if somebody’s listening they’re like grace transforms lives. Yeah. But you can’t just let your kids get away with everything. Like no, we don’t just let our kids get away with everything.

But we do understand – we had a comment on one of my post recently that said it just sounds like parents just have to absorb the, their children’s sin. And in my mind I was like kind of like how Jesus absorbs our sin, he absorbed our sin on the cross. Yeah. There are gonna be some times it feels like you’re absorbing your child’s sin and you know what? Because we have been given that gift, we can pass that gift onto our children and still guide and mold and shape them and teach accountability and responsibility and and teach them in the way of wisdom. Yes. But I was like, that’s actually, yeah, you’re saying it in a way that you’re like, I disagree with you but actually I kind of agree with you.

Terry:
I love that and I love that like, I mean you’ve provided a space, you guys have provided a space for somebody to actually ask that question.

Amanda:
Yes.

Terry:
That’s amazing. You’ve created such an amazing like forum that people can actually be vulnerable enough to even like put a comment like that in there that actually seems like it’s somebody who might disagree with you, wants to debate these types of things.

Amanda:
Yeah.

Terry:
But you’re actually able to, like you’re still learning, you’re finding actually more common ground in this thing that maybe was a reason to not even put yourself out there in the first place. Oh I’m gonna put this out there, somebody’s gonna disagree with me. Somebody’s gonna be like actually it’s discovering that, you know, this person might be just curious. You know, so you guys are are are amazing to put yourselves out there to do that, to open, you know, open up yourselves to others around you. So I mean I would love for all listeners to know where they can find you guys. Where can they find you?

Amanda:
Yeah. On Instagram we’re @flourishinghomesandfamilies and on Facebook we’re @also flourishinghomes – facebook.com/flourishinghomesandfamilies. And then our website is flourishinghomeandfamilies.com.

Terry:
Amazing.

Wendy:
So good

Amanda:
We’re on Twitter and TikTok, too, but it’s like not often.

Terry:
You’re under construction.

Wendy:
Yeah, it’s under construction. Yes. And I love Terry’s like wrapping us up so we can let you guys get back to your, your day and your your family. But I did just wanna add one last thing is about your last comment about the absorbing sin. What’s so cool is that Jesus didn’t stop teaching after that, right? Like right, yeah. On the cross absorb the sin and then he kept teaching, right? And that’s just so beautifully represents what we do, what you do, what I do in this work, right? Like yes it is, it is sacrificial, it is humility, it is absorbing, it is grace. And then you get up the next day you put your boots on and you freaking teach.

Amanda:
Yeah

Wendy:
You teach, yeah you teach, you guide, you mentor you, you keep like it is such a part of it and that Jesus so beautifully modeled for us after he absorbed the sin.

Amanda:
Yes. And I love and like seeing Peter’s relationship with Jesus after Jesus’ resurrection. Like the very last thing Peter did with Jesus was deny him and completely a hundred percent no questions asked fractured his relationship with Jesus. And the very next time he sees him, he gets out of a boat and runs through waves to get to Jesus. And it just blows my mind because there is no shame, there is no fear, there is no unworthiness. He’s like, he was the sinner, he was the one fracturing the relationship and failing, failing, failing. And then the next time he sees Jesus, it is pure abandon to go be with him and no fear.

And that’s what I wanna be with my my, that’s how I want to be with my kids. Like when they fracture the relationship, I want them to know they can run with abandon back to me when they’re ready. Yeah.

Wendy:
My God.

Terry:
Okay

Wendy:
Now,

Terry:
Now it’s a mic drop. You guys both got your own mic drops. Thank you guys so much for joining us today. So much to continue the conversation and maybe we’ll have you guys on again cuz I think, think this is awesome. Yeah. All

Wendy:
Right. We, we are going to need to have you guys back cuz I could literally talk for hours with you. And again, thank you so much guys for taking time out. I know you have a busy schedule and we’re just so grateful and honored to have spent this hour with you. Listeners, go find and support Dr. David and Amanda. They are just doing incredible work in the world. Thanks again guys, and God bless.

Amanda:
Thank you. Bye.

Wendy:
All right families, that’s a wrap. I hope you love today’s episode as much as I loved recording it for you, and if you’d love to get supported more on the compassionate discipline front, remember we are teaching and just focusing a lot on compassionate discipline this month here at Fresh Start Family. Then I want to come over and grab that free learning guide we have where we’ll help you build logical consequences that work with kids of all ages, and/or if you want to join us for our free workshop: Three Steps to Building a Strong, Compassionate, Kind and Firm Discipline Tool Kit, I’d love to have you join me for that also! So take your pick– choose one, choose both, but I really wanna support you further on the discipline front. I know many of you are really struggling and just feeling really disconnected and hating when you have to discipline your kids, and I can help change that for you. So the discipline guide is over at freshstartfamilyonline.com/disciplineguide and then to learn about the dates and the times that I am teaching the free discipline workshop, you can save your seat there over at freshstartfamilyonline.com/disciplineclass. All right families thanks for listening and can’t wait to see you inside of the learning guide and at the Discipline Class very soon.

For links and more info about everything we covered in today’s episode, head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/143.

Stella:
For more information, go to freshstartfamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening, families, have a great day.