This episode of The Fresh Start Family Show welcomes back a cherished guest Rosalia Rivera, founder of Consent Parenting, a consent educator and child sexual abuse prevention specialist, sexual literacy advocate and the host of the About Consent Podcast. She is also a child sexual abuse survivor, turned thriver.
You’ll learn how to avoid the pitfalls that many well meaning parents make when it comes to educating ourselves and our children on these topics. This conversation is often uncomfortable or even taboo, but it doesn’t need to be and it’s absolutely essential that every parent listens since the stats are staggering when it comes to how common sexual abuse with kids is. The more literate we are ourselves, the easier it is to address our own family, friends and others in our children’s lives so they stay SAFE!
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Episode Highlights:
- In the US, 1 in 4 girls have experienced sexual abuse, and 1 in 6 boys
- Most survivors and especially children don’t report abuse until much later in life
- 40% of abuse is peer to peer, it’s not always by an adult
- Some behaviors begin with innocent curiosity and need intervention and education to prevent it from turning into something abusive
- Teaching our children the red flags about tricky people and grooming is so important, and also teach adults in their lives about avoiding keeping secrets
- Abusers often aren’t getting the help they need to get support with their problem
- Easy access to pornography is majorly influencing consent / rape culture and our kids need us to talk to them about it
- We need to do our due diligence vetting people our kids are around without us (ie sleep overs)
- Normalizing the conversation empowers other parents to feel brave to talk about it, too
- Teaching kids “safe and unsafe” touch instead of “good and bad” touch
- We want to help our children know that we want to keep them safe and it’s not their fault if they were involved in something inappropriate
- A child who feels safe, secure and unconditionally loved, they feel safe to share with us, even if the abuser threatens them
Resources Mentioned:
Where to Find Rosalia:
Her TedX Talk on Consent Kids and Culture
FSF Show Ep. 78 Preventing Abuse in our Kiddos’ Lives with Rosalia Rivera
FSF Show Ep. 166 Healing Through the Mirror: How Our Children Can Reflect the Changes WE Need to Make – with Wendy Snyder
Not able to listen or want to read along with us?
Here is the episode transcript!
Wendy:
Hello listeners. I’m so happy that you are back for a new episode of the Fresh Start Family Show. I’m your host, Wendy Snyder, positive parenting educator and family life coach. And today on the show we have the amazing Rosalia Rivera who is going to be talking to us about five mistakes, even the most well-meaning parents are making when it comes to keeping kids safe from sexual abuse. Now, when you hear that subject, I know it feels pretty heavy. Before you turn this off and go to maybe a more positive vibey episode of the Fresh Start Family Show, just know that it is really, really important that you listen to this one.
It is so important for you to educate yourself on the reality of how common sexual abuse with kids is. Okay. So April is National Child Abuse Prevention and Sexual Abuse Prevention Month. So I really wanted to bring Rosalia on so she could chat with us about her incredible expertise in this area. And so before we get started, I wanted to just read a little bit about Rosalia so you can get to know her. So Rosalia Rivera is a consent educator and child sexual abuse prevention specialist, sexual literacy advocate, TEDx Speaker chair of SAGE Survivor Advocates Globally Empowered, representing the Brave Movement and the founder of Consent Parenting, the host of the About Consent podcast, and creatrix of Consent Wear.
She is also a CSA, which means she is a child sexual abuse survivor turned thriver. She helps busy parents go from fearful and anxious to confident and empowered about teaching their kids about body safety boundaries and consent to prevent sexual abuse. As a CSA survivor and parent from a family of survivors, she discovered how triggering it was to learn about sexual abuse prevention when it was time to educate her own kids. Once she became a mom, determined to break the intergenerational cycle of abuse, Rosalia dedicated herself to her own healing so she could overcome the anxiety and triggers that kept coming up when learning about abuse prevention so she could teach her kids.
Through this process, she learned that there were no programs, specifically speaking to the survivor experience. This was preventing a large percentage of the parenting population from educating themselves about their kids, thereby increasing the perpetuation of the cycle. That is when she created and founded Consent Parenting and launched her about consent podcast dedicated to survivors and those who support survivors to share interviews with experts in the field of mental wellness, trauma and survivors and thrivers. She has helped thousands of parents through her various social media platform content, her well reviewed workshops and programs, and her Empowered family memberships.
So I just love her so much. You, her name might ring a bell cuz she was actually a guest of ours back on episode 78 of the Fresh Start Family Show. She came on to talk about preventing sexual abuse in our children’s lives. That was quite some time ago, but now she’s back, like I mentioned, to share these five mistakes that even the most well-meaning parents make when it comes to keeping our kids safe from sexual abuse. Now, here’s the crazy thing, and this is really why I don’t want you to turn off this episode, is because the stats are nuts. You’re gonna hear us talk about it in this episode. I think Rosalia shares that it’s like one in three or one in four, and those are from who reports it, right?
So I, I shared in episode 166 actually of the Fresh Start Family Show that came out, let’s see, that was I think at the time of this area. That would’ve been last week. So Healing through the Mirror, episode 166 actually shared a lot of what’s been going on for me behind the scene lately with my own healing process and how I recently, a huge part of me that realized I was still carrying shame and just had a pit of something within me that just I knew needed to be heal healed. But I talked about in that episode, and I actually talk about it in this episode with Rosalia too, that I finally realized that I had been suppressing a season where I was sexually abused by an older cousin that I was holding so much shame about.
You’ll hear me talk about it, but it was like decades of not talking about it. And when we first recorded this episode, or when I first recorded with Rosalia back in that episode 78, I just remember being like, oh, okay, well you’re awesome. Love you. Wanna put, you wanna introduce you to my community. Your message is so important. But I am not a survivor, right? So I’m someone who just wants to educate and support survivors. And just to now realize that I was like suppressing that and not realizing that what I had gone through was actually sexual abuse, right? I think in my head I normalized it. I had tried to run from it. I just felt like if I just buried it deep down that I would never have to deal with it.
It wasn’t a big deal. Don’t bring it to the light. No one needs to know, blah, blah, blah. But now I’m realizing, holy smokes, I am one of those statistics. So if that was my experience, I cannot even imagine how many of you guys out there are having like a similar thing, right? So whether you are in that one in three or one in four, some of the studies show one in five. But again, that is who is reporting this. And the statistics show that it often takes two, three decades for someone to come to terms and actually share with someone that they, they had had sexual abuse or some type of molestation in their life when they were a kid.
So those are the people who are reporting. So it sure seems like to me that this statistic is actually more hovering around one in two or one in three children will be sexually abused. Like, holy smokes, you guys, every single person needs to listen to this episode. We need to support Rosalia’s work. We need to be having conversations with our kids. We need to be coming at this from an empowered standpoint to prevent this type of trauma in our children’s lives. And we can do it. We can do it. So I’m just really excited for you to listen and hear these amazing tips that Rosalia has for us today. This is just an uplifting and an empowering episode, and I just hope that it really fills you with information so you can be in the driver’s seat of keeping your kids safe.
All right, so without further ado, enjoy this episode. Thank you guys for listening. Thank you for supporting the Fresh Start Family Show. Remember, the best way to say thank you to us for these episodes that we create for you is to share. So as you’re listening, if you can take a screenshot and if you love or have aha moments or just really feel that passion like I do and Rosalia does to share this educational message into the world, take a screenshot share on Instagram. I am @FreshStartWendy and Rosalia is @ConsentParenting. So make sure you share, tag us, shoot us a DM, let us know what felt like an aha moment for you or what you are really inspired to do with your children to protect them from being victims of sexual abuse.
We would love to hear from you over on Instagram. It’s where we both love to hang out the most and where it’s really easy to kind of be in contact, engage in DMs with you. I mean, it’s just really fun to reach out and connect with you guys that way. So thank you for listening. Without further ado, help me welcome Rosalia to the show.
Stella:
Well, hey there, I’m Stella. Welcome to my mom and dad’s podcast, the Fresh Start Family Show. We’re so happy you’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean, Jesus, and rock and roll, and believe deeply in the true power of love and kindness. Together we hope to inspire you to expand your heart, learn new tools, and strengthen your family. Enjoy the show
Wendy:
Well, hello there families and welcome to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family Show. I’m really thrilled to have Miss Rosalia Rivera back on the show today. Welcome to the show, Rosalia.
Rosalia:
Hey Wendy, thanks for having me back.
Wendy:
Yes. So you guys, if you never listened to the first episode that Rosalia was on, it’s episode 79 and it was really a good one. We talked about so many things when it comes to preventing sexual abuse with our kids. One of my favorite things you taught us about back in that first episode when we interviewed you was about the concept of tricky people and using like Disney flicks and and stories to, to teach our kids in a way that really helped them understand the way sexual abuse really actually happens in the world, which I think is a lot of us as we learn about this is really different than we think it does, right? But we’re, we’re back today to talk about five mistakes, even the most well-meaning parents are making when it comes to keeping kids safe from sexual abuse.
And, and I’m so happy that you’re here Rosalia, so much has happened since you were on last. I feel like that was a few years ago. Since then, you’ve done a TED Talk, right? And you have own podcast now.
Rosalia:
Two of them.
Wendy:
Two of them! Amazing. And you have your own podcast now, right?
Rosalia:
Yeah, I have my own podcast. It’s a bit on hiatus just because it’s, things have been so busy. I’ve since also become the chair of the Brave Movement, which launched last year, 15 survivors that have come together from all over the world, really top leaders. I feel really humbled to be in the company of these amazing leaders who are changing policy in the world. You know, really shaping the narrative for survivors as well on this issue and just raising awareness so that we can really finally solve this issue that’s been on the rise, unfortunately. So, and, and a lot of it is because parents are making a lot of mistakes unintentionally, but, you know, education and awareness is key to solving this.
So that’s why we’re here. So thanks for for inviting me back on to talk about this.
Wendy:
Heck yes. Well it’s, it’s, it really is an honor to have you here. And for those parents who are listening right now and they haven’t listened to the first episode, just remind us about your mission. I love that you have this mission of eradication. I think that’s so beautiful. But give us listeners a little bit more just about what you, what you are so passionate about doing in the world.
Rosalia:
Yeah, sure, thanks. So I am a survivor to, you know, which is really part of what’s at the heart of my mission, but I’m also a parent of three. And those two things came together when my children, when my oldest was five, and I realized that I was so ill equipped to teach him because I didn’t know how, I wasn’t taught any of this and I hadn’t even confronted any of my own trauma. It was kind of buried. And it all came to the surface when I started learning about abuse prevention and body safety. And I shied away from the work because it can be triggering. And I realized I was not the only one.
There are millions of survivor parents out there who are struggling with this. And so I recognize that this, there was a gap. No one was speaking to survivors specifically. And then also I found out this really crazy statistic, which is that the children of parents who are survivors have a five times greater chance of becoming survivors themselves, of becoming victimized themselves because of how hard it is to talk about this issue. So that became part of my core mission, was wanting to help survivors break the cycles. Not because they were going to perpetrate on their own children, but because they were afraid to, to talk about this, understandably. I mean, even parents who are not survivors have a hard time talking about this.
So you can only imagine how much harder it is for survivor parents. So that really is what set me on this journey of educating myself fully healing, right? Stepping into that healing journey, recognizing that that’s a critical part of this work. I think, I think parenting in general is, is a process of healing ourselves, right? Just in general, but in particular with this topic, really educating ourselves, empowering ourselves, healing ourselves, being able to then pass that onto our children is one of the biggest gifts that we can give to future generations. Our current, you know, children and their generation. And to eradicate this issue once and for all, which starts with being able to talk about it, dismantling the taboo and recognizing that it doesn’t have to be a scary conversation at all.
It actually can be really empowering and really healing. So that really became the center of my message to all kinds of parents, but in particular survivor parents. And that we can prevent the next wave of me too. So that’s, that’s what I’m all about.
Wendy:
Ugh, I love it. Yeah, that, that idea of that it’s taboo and that it doesn’t need to be, that it can be empowering. And I’m gonna, I’m gonna speak to that in a second, but tell us again, remind us of the stat of just, isn’t it, so 93% of our listeners are women, we’ve got 7% men. So isn’t is the stat still like one in three or one in four women?
Rosalia:
Yeah, so in the United States it’s one in four girls and one in six boys. Yeah. That has fluctuated the, the number of boys used to be one in nine. But as we, I think are starting to dismantle toxic masculinity, there are a lot of male survivors that finally feel safe to talk about the abuse that’s happened to them. And so those numbers have only risen, I think mostly because of reporting, but for for girls it’s remained pretty steady. And the thing is that we also know that these numbers are still conservative because most survivors don’t report. Most, most children don’t report and they only report or talk about it or disclose once they’re much older as adults and you know, are, are kind of forced to face, you know, these facts about what happened to them.
So we know that these numbers are likely much higher and that’s unacceptable, you know, it’s just really, we, we have to face the truth that this is happening in your backyard and if we wanna prevent it, we gotta talk about it.
Wendy:
Oh, it’s wild. So like more accurately one in four are reporting, so it’s more accurately like one in three or possibly even one in two if, when you look at the amount that’s being reported. And this is, this is crazy because, you know, I think, I feel like it’s been two years since I had you on the show. Like it’s been a while. I feel like you were on pretty early and, and so much has happened around here. We’ve like, so much has grown and Fresh Start Family things are so great. And I had a giant fricking realization this year, Rosalia. So when I first had you on the show, I was like, oh gosh, you know, Rosalia is a consent parenting expert. She helps survivors. And I remember specifically saying to you during the show, now I’m not someone who’s a survivor, right?
And finally this year it hit me like a ton of bricks that I was like, oh my gosh, I have been hiding the fact. So I was sexually abused by my cousin when I was about nine. I feel like it was for about a year. And what happened was, I think I normalized, I know I did. I I feel like I probably was confused all these years. And I was like, is this curiosity? Is it not? This cousin was three years older. I’m still like, this just happened like two weeks ago where I was like, Hey, I’m sick of freaking this. Like what the, for like what the fuck, fuck, let’s talk about this. But there was so much confusion around it. But the fact is it was, I think you add, do the math, it was like 30 something years.
And I
Rosalia:
Yeah, that’s the average.
Wendy:
Held shame. I held shame and I didn’t tell anybody. I didn’t even tell my husband, which is like crazy. We’ve been together 27 years and I, when I sat him down like last week, I was like, honey, I gotta tell you something. And I’m just realizing that I’ve been holding shame about this holy shit. Like I’m the one in the three or whatever it is. And so this conversation today is even more rich and meaningful to me. And I’m just even more grateful. I was always grateful for your work. But now as I process this and I realize that, oh my gosh, like I had normalized in my head that this was just like normal cousin stuff. And I’m like, no, this was not normal cousin stuff. This was like in a basement, it was in a dark room, it was hidden, it was shameful.
And it’s something that has eaten away at my soul for decades. And the fact that I, I hid it and felt so, so it feels so good to not hide it anymore and to be –
Rosalia:
Oh, I’m so proud of you for being able to, you know, to to face it first of all and acknowledge that you should not hold any shame you were a child. And what’s really crazy that a lot of people don’t know, here’s here might might be another statistic that most people don’t know, is that 40% of abuse is peer to peer. Whether that is cousins, siblings, sibling abuse is actually quite prevalent. And particularly nowadays with the rise of access to the internet, unsupervised access, these numbers are, are escalating. And most people think it’s only adults who are perpetrators, you know, and they just don’t recognize that children can also cause harm.
And this isn’t to say that, you know, children are going to become abusers when they grow up because of this. It starts a lot of times with curiosity. And then because there is no intervention, it escalates. And a lot of, I’ve talked to so many survivors who are in a similar position where it was like we were similar ages, I wasn’t sure looking back on it, you know, they, they carried a lot of shame for a long time. And so, you know, these are, these are really important facts that we need to be aware of so that we can be that intervening, supportive, safe space for our children if something were to happen, even if it’s just curiosity that we can step in and support them so that they are safe.
So that they know what are the, what’s appropriate and inappropriate and how to take the next steps without it becoming traumatic, you know? Which I think is unfortunately what happens when these things do evolve into, you know, they escalate. And then when you’re an adult, you’re left rec like, you know, reckoning what happened. So, you know, this is actually a real, a really common experience for a lot of people that they don’t talk about cuz they’re like, I don’t know, it was another child. So what do you do with that? You know? So yeah, it’s, it’s, yeah. So important to, to come to reckoning with that and recognize you weren’t at fault. You, you don’t deserve to hold that shame. I think for survivors that’s really important as part of the healing process and recognizing our bodies are also meant to experience pleasure.
And so I think there’s a lot of shame around that, but un not understanding our bodies and our sexuality can also create a lot of confusion and additional shame that could have been resolved if the right education had been put in place early on.
Wendy:
Yes. And then you combine that with empowered connection based parenting and compassionate discipline instead of punishment. And it’s just like, boom, now we have the ability to prevent or to eradicate it or to come in and intervene, like you said, right? Like yeah, it’s, and and that’s what’s so interesting with my own journey is like you, you know, you do a quick research and you’re like, oh my gosh was this, and then, you know, it’s like, is it three years? Is it five years? But it seems like if the stat is 40% that it’s siblings or family or whatever and it’s children, you know, it’s, it’s hard to reconcile that cuz you’re like, is that, was that? But then you look think back and you’re like, no there was definitely a hierarchy here.
You know, when I think back I’m like, that was a hierarchy. So whether it’s three years or five years of a difference, yeah you can feel in your body there’s
Rosalia:
Dynamic. Yeah. Yes.
Wendy:
You can feel
Rosalia:
In your power dynamic is a really is important factor to really understand if that was potentially abusive, an older child in particular would know. Yeah, I think an older child, depending on the age of the child, if there’s a three to five year difference, definitely a power dynamic issue. If the child is older, if the child asks the other child to keep it a secret, then they absolutely knew that it was inappropriate. So there’s a lot of things that you can look to to say, yeah this was, you know, it happened more than once, it happened more than twice. There were all these other factors involved. So therefore, you know, there was an abuse of power in that dynamic. And other times it could be where there was no, you know, the children were the same age.
There were both in, in sort of exploratory mode. There was no intervention, it escalated but both children were kind of unaware, you know, so there’s a lot of different facets to it that each case is individual and we have to look at it from that perspective. For some children it could be that they were abused and they were mimicking behavior. For others it was that they were coerced into that behavior by an adult who was maybe filming it, you know? So there’s so many ways that this potentially plays out with peer-to-peer abuse. And so just again, getting educated about the way it can happen and how to arm your child with the right information so that they can recognize when it’s abusive and you know, do something obviously report, be able to tell even if they can’t stop it in the moment.
Wendy:
Yes. Yeah. And just the god, that word taboo, I love it. It’s like just what is the big deal? Let’s just talk about it. Right? I don’t mean to discount, like, I don’t mean to minimize what is the big deal cuz I get it like it is. So there’s so much trauma involved with it and it’s like, let’s just talk about it. It feels so good to talk about it. And then we are in the state of power with our own children and I’m just kind of in this state of like, whoa, I cannot believe this whole time I was not like I was educating my kids, but I just wasn’t, I just am in such a different mindset now. So it just is so interesting, such an interesting journey. So yeah. Okay, well there’s so many facets to this. So let’s just jump right in. Okay. So even the most, well-meaning parents, right? Like you think you’re doing everything to protect your children, but that first, that first one about the stats.
So you talked, we talked a little bit about this already. So you mentioned sibling sexual abuse is three times more likely than parent on child sexual abuse. And then like, is it the same stat for cousins and stuff? Is that like kind, is there, is there
Rosalia:
That falls within the family or relatives? So that’s the 30%. So we’re talking about the way that it breaks down because 90% of abuse happens by people that a family knows and trusts. So that’s the child or the parent. And I think that’s really important to recognize cuz a lot of people still have this, you know, idea that it’s, you know, some stranger in a white van, but it is people that children know that families know, that parents know. So it’s important to understand that it’s 90% and then the way that that breaks down is 30% is family. So that again, can be a parent themselves, a co-parent, step-parent, it could be grandparent, family member, cousin.
So that falls within that 30%, 40% is peer to peer. So that can be an older child, a stronger child, a child of the same age and even a younger child, right? So, wow. That again could just be curiosity or again, they were abused in, they’re mimicking that behavior. So the, the rest of that, I believe that’s 20% is anyone else who’s involved in your child’s life, who’s a potential caregiver. So that could be an educator, daycare provider, babysitter, you know, anyone who
Wendy:
A coach, right?
Rosalia:
Yeah. So the people that are interacting could be a doctor, it could be, you know, a police officer, it could be anyone that your child may be interacting with who is known to the family, but may have a bit more distance than obviously a, a family member. So that’s the breakdown, right? And so this is why I always reinforce to people like it could be anyone. It really, you know, the, the, the stats don’t discriminate by age, race, gender, you know, the, the facts are that there are still female perpetrators, but we know that the numbers are much higher for male perpetrators. So, you know, these are, these are important things to be aware of so that we can then determine, okay, so how do we take steps to prevent it?
How do we educate both our children and the people in our children’s lives? Cuz it’s not just about teaching our kids.
Wendy:
Yeah. And I imagine, I don’t know if if you have it or not, but there’s gotta be a stat around same sex too. I feel like parents might have a mistaken belief that it won’t happen if they’re going like a girl is going to her girl cousin’s house, but that’s not true, right? Correct.
Rosalia:
Correct. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It’s
Wendy:
The numbers are out there for sure. Okay, so number two, thinking that your child will recognize red flag behavior grooming, tell us a little bit more about that.
Rosalia:
Yeah, so grooming is I think a tricky concept just for parents in general to wrap their heads around because a lot of the behavior can seem so normal and so sort of loving and affectionate and in many cases it can be, right? So one of the things I wanna say about grooming is a lot of people when I share a list of here’s some signs that you need to look for, they’re like, well that seems like normal behavior, you know, like, yeah, a grandparent doting on their child, you know, grandchild is not gonna be seen as grooming and it may not be, but we need to be aware of do we see a pattern? Is there a list of these behaviors that you’re seeing? What’s your gut feeling telling you? And so we, if we don’t become aware of those signs and how to spot them and how to listen to our intuition, it’s really difficult for us to teach our children.
And they may not be aware of it because we’re not teaching and educating them about these concepts like tricky people and how to tune into their intuition and how to confirm details with a parent. You know, for example, you know, know grandma is giving, you know, Cindy ice cream and says, you know, don’t tell your mom before you know, we go back to your house cuz you’re not supposed to have it before dinner. And if she finds out then she’s not gonna let me, you know, give that to you again. So it’ll just be our little secret. And it might be just a completely innocent secret. There might be no ill intention there, but if we haven’t told Cindy that, you know, no one should keep secrets and it doesn’t matter who it is, even grandma, she might not recognize that as a potential grooming sign.
So we both need to educate grandma and our child about that and say, you know, no one should be giving you something and say, saying that it’s a secret to keep, here’s the reasons why. So when we’re educating on that, we’re also educating on grooming signs without them even recognizing that that’s a grooming sign. But just saying like, here’s what you need to, you know, to note and be aware of and what to do if that happens. And then as our child gets a little bit older, you can then talk about, hey, you know how we talked about this no secret keeping, well now that you’re starting to date, you know, make sure that you’re, that that still applies, right? So we wanna yeah. Impact that with our children as they get older so that they start to recognize those signs themselves and can listen to their intuition.
They can, you know, be feel safe to talk to a parent about, Hey, you know, this didn’t feel right or they told me this, but it, you know, it kind of conflicts with what you told me, but at the same time, like, I really want to like do this thing like what should I do so they can check in with you and not feel like it’s a secret that they have to keep because they wanna do it. But that, you know, as kids get into those peer pressure situations, which can be grooming in some ways, right? We want them to recognize those red flags and be able to check in, you know, they may decide to do it, but at the very least you’re aware of what’s going on. They feel safe talking to you. Yeah. And you can be there to give them guidance.
So when they’re little we can teach them grooming signs in inadvertently through different methods. And then as they get older, we wanna translate that information for them to start picking up on it because ultimately we want them to have healthy relationships, safe relationships. And so if they can learn to do that when they’re young, it, it prevents future abuse as well as potential trafficking vulnerabilities as they get older.
Wendy:
Yes. And for someone who’s new to this conversation and they’re like, what do you mean by grooming and red flag behavior? Do you have some resources that like they could maybe download to just get a quick, cuz I know we’re kind of hitting the points of like these mistakes and we’re hitting hi a little higher level today, but is do you have any downloads like that that people can
Rosalia:
I do, yeah. I have a free pdf, 10 signs of grooming and it breaks down what grooming is, which is essentially the, the behaviors that offenders will use to get access to get closer and get access to a child for the purpose of abusing them. So a clear definition of grooming is really important too. I actually just recently did two blog posts as well around the topic of the, the term hashtag groomer, you know, really helping parents understand the nuances of that term. And then also good idea just even helping parents understand how a family member may unintentionally use grooming tactics. And so even just talking to them about why that behavior is not okay and, and you know how to help them understand it is really helpful.
So there’s another blog post about that it’s called is, is Grandma Grooming Your Child? And the answer is probably not, but they might Right, right. Setting your child up for it. So, you know, so those are some additional resources that they can learn more about it.
Wendy:
Yeah. Yep. And I know people, people probably who haven’t experienced it might think it’s crazy to even think about grandma or grandpa and it it really is happening. Yeah. Like it’s, you know, it’s, it’s wild. It really is. It really is happening listeners. So I know it sounds like unbelievable, but it really is happening as far as sexual abuse goes. Yeah. Okay. So I love that. And so because of your work, Rosalie Terry and I felt really empowered just to have the conversation exact do exactly this about, it was like six months ago we had a, we have a neighbor who’s amazing, like he is the coolest guy and he, he has lent our little guys, our little guy’s 12 now an electric motorcycle, it’s called a Siron.
And he has like five motorcycles and he’s just the coolest guy. He is all these, we just love him. And he started, our little guy has a tru me, so it’s not an iPhone, but it’s like a tru me or a Gabb phone, only text and voice, right? But they started texting a little bit about this motorcycle and at one point he said to him, oh, don’t tell your parents this, but you know, I’m, I’m trying to convince you to get your own motorcycle one day or something like that. And because of your work, I looked at Terry and I was like, we need to educate Terrin. So we did, we did talk to her and we’re like, Hey, I’m sure this is not happening, but just so you know, this is some, like the whole thing we just talked about. And, and Terry was so freaked out by it. I’m like, trust me, I’m sure it’s fine. I’m sure nothing’s happening, but we need to, we will keep our eye on it.
Yeah. As that relationship strengthens, make sure we’re educating Terrin on as things go along. But I just would’ve never even probably noticed that. And it is if it wasn’t for you. So thank you. That’s, you know, and, and I’m sure that’s kind of how it starts, right?
Rosalia:
Yeah.
Wendy:
Like we just, yeah. Don’t, don’t tell your parents, but I’m gonna convince you to get a motorcycle. Again, probably not what he’s doing, but just little things like that, that a l a kiddo starts to learn that there’s this fun little secret. Yeah. And this person is like, you’re homey. Yeah. Like they’re, they’re you and them like, only it’s like almost powerful to like be in with someone.
Rosalia:
It’s very powerful. Yeah. It’s very powerful.
Wendy:
And then, and then all of a sudden it’s like, oh, actually I have power over you and you’re gonna get in trouble. You’re going to, you know, like, what’s wrong with you? When I look back, I’m like, wow, my recent healing, like realization felt like a lightning bolt from heaven around. This is like, that is where I, I’m pretty sure I learned to hide I and that hiding and acting like everything’s okay on the, the outside, like started, I, I’m pretty sure then Yeah. And then I learned how to do it really, really well and, and it, you know, had a whole bunch of not great things that came from it, but, okay. So yes. Grooming, red flag behavior, thinking that our child will just know that that’s, that’s a mistake that we, we want to get ahead of and change.
Okay. Number three, Rosalia not being proactive because you believe your neighborhood school, religious institution, family circles are all safe.
Rosalia:
Yeah. I see this so often. It kind of drives me crazy to be honest, because the, you know, being in this field doing this work, I know how not true that is. And if we look at the statistics, one in four girls, right? And we look at a classroom of students, there’s at least one to two children in that class who are being abused, right? Statistically speaking. So if statistically speaking, that’s happening, that means that your child might be friends with one of them, they might know them, right? You may know a parent who is a survivor. So we have to be aware that this is a reality that is existing in every community, regardless of socioeconomic status, regardless of, you know, gender.
And regardless of how open or welcoming your community may seem, right? Unfortunately, offenders operate within systems that are safe spaces for children. And so we can’t just blanketly trust and say, well, if they work in a school, they must have been vetted. Well, do we know that for sure. Do, do you know what your school’s policies are? Is that someone who’s been working there for a long time that they’ve just, you know, I had a post recently where I said, you know, talking about this, there was a parent who said, you know, this school, I talked to them about their policies and they said, oh, well, you know, all of our educators have been here for so long and they’re, they know all the families and they’re really, you know, connected.
And we can’t just bank on that. We can’t just say, well, I know so and so forever. If we look at the case of Larry Nassar, for example, someone who abused over 150 girls, he worked within that system for decades and there were reports that were even made on him, but people refused to believe it because they couldn’t accept that this was someone who they knew and love and trusted. You know, he was a standup, you know, community person. He had founded an autism foundation within his community, right? Did all the things to not just groom the girls in his care, but also the community and the industry that he worked within.
So we have to be aware that just because we think we live in a neighborhood that we’ve never heard this happen before, maybe that report just hasn’t come out. Maybe that offender just hasn’t been caught yet. So we, we, you know, this isn’t to say everybody needs to be paranoid of who their neighbor is.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Rosalia:
It’s just that we need to become educated so that we can spot signs when we see them so that we don’t, so that we stop also gaslighting ourselves when we see things that make us uncomfortable that we’re like, that didn’t seem right, but, you know, I don’t wanna rock the boat. Maybe I’m just being paranoid. Maybe I, you know, and we start doubting ourselves, right? But maybe what you saw was actually evidence that you should be paying more attention to that person that maybe you don’t necessarily wanna trust that child, you know, that person with, with a child on their own. So it’s really just about reminding people that just because you don’t think it’s happened doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
And so the best thing that you can do is educate yourself about this topic and start to talk to other people about it. Because you’ll start to get also a temperature reading on, you know, how did that person take it? Did they seem, you know, dismissive of it or were they interested? You know, are they pushing back on my boundaries or are they respecting them? When we can start to have these conversations, we start to get a better gauge of the people in our community. We start to create safer communities, right? So even if we don’t think it’s happening, we can strengthen the safety of that community by talking about it.
Wendy:
Yeah. Just the, the idea of talking is so, so powerful and it’s crazy to think, you know, if it’s so taboo for someone to talk about being a victim, right? Because you just got all this stuff that Fs with you. Like, was this partly my fault? I agreed to this blah, blah, blah, this weird stuff. But then, so then imagine like, I can imagine how hard it is for the people who are abusers to get the help that they need. Like, oh my gosh. Like I can even, I can imagine the numbers are even worse of people who ever admit that they did something right? Like it’s probably, yeah. And so we know that like when there’s someone that’s like, it’s just, I just think it’s so fascinating to like, think about that a little bit.
Like I think people have a tendency to think like evil. They’re evil and it’s like, well really, they’re just, they just really need help. Yeah. They’re just really sick and they probably have an addiction to power and to like sensual pleasure in the wrong freaking way, right? Yeah. Like, and they just need help, but because our society doesn’t talk about it, and then if somebody does, it does come out that they’ve been an abuser, it’s like the most vicious attack on the planet often is just what I’ve seen. So it’s just wild how changing the narrative and just what can we do to just get these people the help that they need. So if you do have to intervene, you’re not thinking like this, like you’re coming, you’re not coming in to intervene, to like break up some evil ring.
It’s just more like, Hey, I’m gonna hold firm boundaries and use my voice and, and in and in turn the chance of that if there’s anything going on that person getting help and that behavior’s stopping. So it doesn’t pass on to generation upon generation, upon generation. Like, I dunno, my mind goes there a
Rosalia:
Little bit. There’s two things I wanna quickly say about that. One is that there is, when we talk about it with other adults, we are essentially staking a claim that our kids are hands off, that our family is hands off because I’m educated about it or becoming educated about it, I’m willing to be vocal about it and, and let people know that this is a topic that is important to me and my family, that we practice these values of consent, parenting and abuse prevention, body safety. So if there is a potential offender in your circle in your community, they are now warned essentially that you’re, you’re not a family that they wanna mess with. They’re gonna want to go after the easiest target, right?
So just off the bat, that’s going to help reduce the risk for your child becoming a target. But secondly, there are programs now that are starting to finally come to light. Most recently there is, I think it was a program from the John Hopkins School of Health, and they launched a program called Help Wanted, and it’s specifically aimed towards offenders or would be offenders who, you know, have unhealthy attraction to children and to get help. And this is part of prevention, this is part of the solution that we need to also address and focus on because obviously these people are, are having problems controlling themselves and we don’t know yet.
You know, the, the debate is still out on why it happens if they’re born with it, you know, is it something that’s developed? But what we do know is that because of the taboo, they’re going underground and creating communities with each other that they can connect with and sympathize. And then that just fosters a safe space for them to continue doing harm to children. And so, you know, there’s a, there’s a fascinating podcast on this called Hunting Warhead. If anyone wants to listen to it, I do wanna say there’s a trigger warning with it. But this talks about, yeah, a particular individual like that who started a forum, international forum, millions of users, you know, on this dark web forum.
And so these exist and you know, when I say that to parents, they’re kind of like shocked and they say, this is exactly why we need to build the same thing, but for parents, right. To have our communities all band together, your community of parents banding with other community of parents talking about this issue and saying, we need to do something and we need to band together and be that frontline for our kids because they’re getting together and doing the same thing in a harmful way. You know? So it, it, it’s a hard conversation. But once, you know, like you said, once we have it and get past that sort of hump of like, this is kind of uncomfortable, we realize, you know what, this is more important than my discomfort.
So yeah, let’s talk about it.
Wendy:
Absolutely. And then another place for those offenders to, to come together in community to get the help, right? So it sounds like there’s, there’s this dark web where they come together and they’re like, oh my gosh, I can relate to you. But then they keep going. It’s like, yeah, there needs to be a place where they’re like, okay, darn it, we all relate on this, but we have the support system. We have like the, the doctors, we have the psychologists, like whatever it may need. Because I think about if the stats are that 40% are children upon children, that means all these children are out there right now. Like what? Like that’s so interesting to me. Like what type of support are they getting after they’ve been an offender? Yeah. Like I think about this 13 year old cousin who clearly I’m sure never got any help, but I’m just like, I, I picture like, what would it have looked like to redo it, right?
In the perfect world where I would’ve felt comfortable saying something to my parents, which I realized I didn’t because there was shame, there was shame used in our house. Like the statement, shame on you when you would mess up, right? Like there was the paddle, there was spanking, there was shame on you. What were you thinking? What’s wrong with you? Now you’re gonna pay the price, you’re in trouble. So like, of course I didn’t feel comfortable telling anybody, especially if I thought that I was, I was someone who had agreed to it. Right. But I think like, what if I would’ve had someone just to be like, oh, something happened so-and-so invited me into the basement. It felt kind of weird, but like, I just wanna tell you. And then they were like, okay, thank you so much.
Everything, like, you’re safe. Like, you know, and then somehow they just got this older cousin, the support and the help that they need instead of like demonizing the older cousin, right? And, and then like, I just feel like the whole future trajectory of these two lives, this older cousin and me, like it just would’ve been different, you know? Yeah. Like, but it, it involve, it in my mind it just involves helping the child who was the perpetrator. So something, something in me just keeps coming back to this. Like, not demonizing the offender, but obviously that’s, that’s hard.
Rosalia:
Yeah. Well it’s, it’s funny that you’re bringing that up because Time Magazine actually just released an article, I think it was last week even called America has been going about stopping child sexual abuse the wrong way. And it addresses this very specifically and they use a specific example of a story of, of a cousin who have used their younger cousin, ended up going into the juvenile justice criminal system and ended up getting hurt further from it. You know, they ended up, because I think it was when they were six, 16 or 17 that they went into juvenile and then once they became turned 18, they had to go into the adult system and they were victimized multiple times within that system. So, you know, this child who had originally been abused, went on to abuse another child, then went into this, you know, criminal system that is broken and was further victimized.
Yeah. And so, you know, we’re talking about trauma upon trauma upon trauma, right. So I completely agree with you and I think, you know, when we look at this issue in a punitive way, we’re not getting people the mental health support they need, the treatment that they need to prevent them from re-offending from rehabilitating. Statistically speaking, when a young person gets that support early on and gets the treatment and you know, mental health counseling that they need, there is a really good outcome. Like statistically, they will not go on to re-offend the, the re-offending numbers are very low. So that’s awesome. You know, we really do need to focus more on that versus victim blaming, victim shaming, you know, and also the way that we’re dealing with juvenile offenders.
Wendy:
Yeah. Cuz I, I think of like, there’s gotta be a lot of parents. We have about 10,000 downloads an episode now. So that’s a lot of parents who probably have walked in on something or had a gut feeling and, and then it’s just so easy to assume like, oh, what is wrong with this? It’s just like, let’s, let’s just look at it a little bit different way so we could riff on that a whole different, I saw you share one time on a, on a Instagram post about like, and I pinged you on this, this is when we first had our interview scheduled like last year. And I was like, Ooh, let’s talk about this. But it was like, what, what are the things that can cause a child or someone to become an offender? Right? Like that’s a really interesting conversation being that I’m an educator so much of the traditional parenting, blah.
Like it can jack a human up. But yeah, just I feel like there has to be compassion in the conversation because so many of these adult offenders, they, they probably started offending when they were children. So just the intervention there is beautiful to think about what could be.
Rosalia:
Yeah.
Wendy:
Okay.
Rosalia:
And especially with the increase in access to porn, that has been a really big influence in the last 10 years particularly. So, you know, that’s another avenue that I think is important to, to talk about because children are not getting age appropriate evidence-based education, sex education and, you know, that’s different for different families. So we have to find the middle ground for families to recognize that it’s important to give children information about their bodies and their health, sexual health, you know, included so that they are making better decisions about that as they get older and not go down the route of exploring, you know, inappropriate adult content that is misogynistic and violent towards, you know, towards women predominantly because it’s, it’s sending horrible messages to both, you know, girls and boys and we’re continuing to live in a rape culture because of it.
So, you know, that’s another part of the formula that we need to, you know, solve.
Wendy:
Yes. And so we’re gonna, we’re gonna talk about this next point of allowing sleepovers without vetting your child will be staying, for example, does the child have older siblings? And if yes, do the older siblings have unsupervised internet access? So this is huge, but just before we go into this real quick, I just wanna riff off the porn thing real quick cuz Oh my gosh. Like, it feels a little overwhelming because I’m like, holy shit. Like I’m telling you all these kids, I just know they’ve seen it and like I look back Rosalia and I’m like, oh my gosh. There was like, this is about, I was born in 1977, right? So thank God this was before the, the internet industry. But like, I was exposed to porn. I remember there was like a weird vhs tape in my house and somehow I found it and I was like, Ooh, like this feels good.
Right? And I bet you that put me more at risk for when an older cousin was like, Hey, how about this? Yeah. And I I, I don’t remember exactly how it went down, but I re bet you that I was more at risk because I had seen that. Yeah. So like that has to increase the numbers of possible sexual abuse happening, right?
Rosalia:
Yeah.
Wendy:
Is that Accurate?
Rosalia:
It is. It does. It, it, it creates a curiosity that may create, again, shame of like, oh, I saw something I shouldn’t have. I pr you know, my parents don’t talk about this stuff. I know that it’s, you know, there’s something wrong with it, but I’m so curious, I’m so interested. You know, and then they may go down this really quick path Yeah. To more and more inappropriate violent content. Right. We’ve seen so many examples of this one prevalent one that I think a lot of youth could relate to is Billy Eilish when she, this I think it was last year, talked about the fact that she was exposed to it from the age of 11 on a lot of it had to do with BDSM, which made her think that she was supposed to do certain things and that, you know, she was supposed to like certain things.
And when she didn’t like them, she thought, you know, something’s wrong, but also like, this is what I’m supposed to do. And so, you know, now that she’s, she’s older, she’s an adult now, she wishes, she’s like, I wish I’d never seen it. It like, it damaged me.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Rosalia:
So much in so many ways and I wish it wasn’t as popular as people, you know, make it out to be these days. And so it, it can, first of all, it rewires the brain. It’s a lot like, yeah. Sugar and drugs, you know, where you get these dopamine hits, but you’re also, you know, coupling that with feelings of shame, feelings of, you know, seeing violence, which you’re, you know, empathetically you recognize is wrong, but it’s mixed in with things that make your body feel good at the same time. So there’s a lot of confusion. Kids are not getting access to people that they can talk to in healthy ways about it. They’re talking to their peers who are probably amping it up and thinking, you know, we’re supposed to like this, so I’m gonna pretend like I like it even though
Wendy:
It’s not a big deal. It’s not a big deal, it’s just that it’s
Rosalia:
Not a big deal. Everybody’s doing it, everybody’s watching it. You’re supposed to, you know, it’s sort of almost like a, a milestone you’re supposed to achieve by a certain time. So there’s, there’s so much toxicity around it and parents are afraid to address it. They’re afraid to talk about it. They don’t know how to navigate it. And so that leads to really unhealthy ways of perceiving sexuality. There is no consent in, you know, ever talked about in pornography. And so this leads to, I think it’s okay to do this. Girls are gonna like this. I’m supposed to be this way. Or girls think that they’re supposed to, you know, do X, y, Z in order to get the approval or the, you know, relationship that they want.
So it leads to this increase of peer-to-peer abuse. And then when we connect it back to younger children, right? So if you have an older child in your home, they have unsupervised access to the internet, they’ve come across porn, now they’ve gone down this rabbit hole, maybe they’ve even started connecting to other, you know, maybe they’re on an online game and they’re chatting with people and suddenly this person connects with them and they’re talking to them about sex. And now I know about that because I’ve seen porn and so I can talk about it and be cool and, you know, suddenly, and now they’re going down that spiral.
Wendy:
Even the talking can create a feeling that they, that they get confused by because they associate it with what they saw. Right. Exactly. Like so then it’s causes them more likely to keep talking to that person.
Rosalia:
Exactly. Exactly. And it’s just been so normalized at that point that, you know, they are continuing down that path because maybe this person is grooming them, right? They’re making them feel good, they’re, you know, telling them all the right things. And at the same time there’s all this secrecy and shame and they, they feel like they’ve gone so far past the point of being able to share it with a parent that now they’re in this really, you know, sticky situation where sometimes they think they’re only out is suicide or they have anxiety, they develop depression, all kinds of issues, you know? Yeah. So when we talk about a mental health issue in the United States right now, a large percentage of that for youth is connected to these issues. Right. And wow, we can’t just make a, you know, we can’t just apologize and say, you know, it’s kids are depressed and anxious.
It’s that they’re, we have to tie it to the things that are making them depressed and anxious. Right. And this is a big part of it.
Wendy:
Yes.
Rosalia:
So going back to your question about sleepovers, this is why I always say it’s really important to vet if your child is young, if they’re five years old and they’re going to a sleepover, is there an older child in that home that has unsupervised access? What are the policies in place? Is that home prioritizing body safety education in any way, shape, or form? Or online safety education, you know, who are the adults that are living in that home? Do they, you know, are, are they safe people? Like have we vetted that? Right. I think that gone is the time of, you know, I, I grew up, I was also born in 78, so we’re close. But I grew up in that time where, you know, we didn’t have access to any of these things and it was still happening back then.
Like there was still unsafe sleepovers. You know, some people who never experienced any issues when they were sleeping over are like, oh, well it was so much fun and I had a great time and that’s awesome. I’m so happy that you didn’t have to experience anything. But the, the fact is that we live in a very different era now with the internet being a very big menace to the safety of our kids. Yeah. And if there is a home where you are not sure about those facts, if you haven’t vetted, you know, the adults in that home or the other children in that home, it is a higher risk that you’re putting your child in. Particularly if you haven’t educated them fully. If they don’t know exit strategies, how to get out of a situation, how to, those are going to, you know, change the risk factors for your child.
Rosalia:
So it’s important to note those things before just saying yes to a sleepover.
Wendy:
Yes. And this is just why, like, man, your programming and your teaching is so good because it seems so like, oh, can I really do that? Like I can, we can, right. But it feels so like, oh my gosh. Like first off, okay, let me, sorry, that the idea of like, are, are these people safe? Right? Like that’s what so tricky about this, this whole thing is like everyone appears safe. Yeah. For the most part besides like, you know, knowing like, yes, if you were to ask them point blank, do you have older kids that have unsupervised? Right? Like, that is a question that could be a yes or no. But otherwise everything seems safe. Like sexual abuse stuff is so hidden, so then it feels just so scary, right?
And then you get your kids up to a point where they’re like begging, begging, begging. Right? And I think that’s where you just make the best decision. I think part of me is like, man, just, it’s just prolonging it as long as possible. Right? The sleepover thing. And then as long as you are really with your kid doing everything you talked about as far as the exit strategies and the open door policy and the conversations around not being shameful, even if they were to partake like all the things, then you’re just way more likely to, even if something were to happen, have it not be go down this, this rabbit hole of 30 years of shame. Right? Yeah. Like, so yeah.
Rosalia:
And I, you know, one of the things I wanna let parents know, because you are, this is one of the things that I, I’m always a little bit nervous about is like, here’s all the things that you can do. And it can feel really overwhelming cause you’re like, oh my gosh, there’s so many things, but we, we just have to take it one step at a time, right? We’re, we can’t, I wish we could download all that information into our brains or into our kids’ brains, right? But the best we can do is lower the risks. There is no guarantee. Even if we do all the things, there’s no guarantee that something won’t happen. But when we educate ourselves, we now have knowledge, power that we can do something about it instead of feeling scared that the world is a scary place. So that’s number one.
Yeah. The number two is starting to educate our kids so that they understand their rights. That is the biggest piece, right? If you can help your child understand their innate rights, their autonomy, their right to their boundaries, the fact that people should be asking them for consent before doing anything, right? Empowering our children with that information is gonna make a huge difference. Because then they recognize when something wrong has happened and they know that you are the safe space. You are in their corner going to be able to help them, right? So that’s the second piece is helping them acknowledge that you are the safe space and that there’s no judgment. You are there to help them be safe and that they can count on that.
So if kids know that and something were to happen, they can come to you and it won’t escalate. And the amount of trauma that can be reduced just by that alone is tremendous, right? Yeah. Secondly, we also need to then more importantly, as we’re, you know, learning about this and as we’re teaching this to our kids, the biggest way that we can reduce risk and is probably the most uncomfortable way, but it is the biggest way, is by talking to the adults in our child’s lives. Now, when we’re having those conversations with parents who invite our kids to sleepovers, right? It’s like, how do I ask them these questions without seeming like a weirdo? But here’s the thing, if we all start to normalize these conversations, then they won’t feel weird, right?
Yeah. So we, we have to kind of develop the courage muscles to be that change maker in our community, in our family. It just takes courage to really break the ice and say, so here’s the thing. This is a really uncomfortable conversation. I’m kind of nervous to have it with you, right? Like, just be honest and upfront I’m learning these things and I don’t want you to feel like I’m asking you cuz I’m targeting you or I am judging you, but here’s what I’ve learned and here are the questions that I’m supposed to ask. So I’m just curious, you know, do you do these things? Are you focusing on them? If you’re not, would you be interested in learning more about it? Because I’d love to share some resources, right? So just coming at it from a place of honesty, of genuine like compassion for the other person to know like, I hope you don’t receive this the wrong way, cuz that’s not the intention, but here’s, you know, here’s what I am looking to know.
Here’s what I’d like you to know about my kids and my family. We are a safe space, you know, and, and I’m, I’m really focused on making sure my kids are safe for your kids. So, you know, I’m trying to change the narrative around this topic and I’m, you know, a little uncomfortable about it, but here it goes.
Wendy:
Oh, that’s, that’s beautiful. I love that. Script scripts helped me so much. Yeah. And then, I mean, this feels right to me and you’ll have to tell me I if you agree, but I think like, so when it comes to telling your child, our last point is telling your child that no one should touch their private parts and not telling them what and, and not telling them what to do if someone does touch them. So that’s the mistake that we’re trying to avoid, right? And you say it’s not go run, yell and tell and tell us more about this. But I’m thinking that, like for me, since I’ve had this realization like two weeks ago, and again, I knew this happened, but I just really had like buried it deep, like never wanted to talk about it. And now I’m like, oh my gosh, that’s, we gotta talk about it, right?
But, but I feel like it puts me in a position to relate to my children. Not, not to relate, but to empathize, to say, Hey, if this were to ever, if something were to ever happen, look, this is what happened to me. I’m not a bad, I’m, it wasn’t my fault. I didn’t like, like it, it doesn’t just know that if something were to happen, you can talk to me. Like, and also from an education point, like, so my point is if there’s one in three or one in four of us, 93% of people listening, then it’s okay. Like I would think it’s a good thing to let our kids know that this happened and like, not hide it. Not hide it, right? Like if you are in a safe space about that.
Rosalia:
Yeah. I think that a couple of things are important to note about that. I think it’s a parent’s choice and decision. If they wanna share that, it, it’s totally a very individual choice, right? And I think every parent has the right to make that choice when you make that choice. There’s a couple of things that I advise parents consider, and one is that if you are going to share it, that you’re sharing it from a healed place like that, there’s more of a scar than a wound, right? Yep. So if you feel like that wound is still quite open and you haven’t been able to get the support you need, it might not be the right time to share it because your child being empathetic is going to want to help and support you, but they’re not equipped to do that at that point, right?
Wendy:
Yeah.
Rosalia:
And it could be a burden that they feel they have to bear and not know how to support a parent. So I think, you know, also depending on the age of your child, if your child is an adult and you, you feel like, yeah, you wanna share this and it’s still unhealed, they may be able to at that point have the resources themselves to, to manage that, right? So that’s one thing to consider. But if you feel like you’re, you know, you’ve gotten to a place where you have made some kind of peace with that past and you recognize that this is important information to share, I think it’s helpful, you know, for a child to recognize that in age appropriate ways, right?
Wendy:
Yeah.
Rosalia:
So for me as an example, you know, for me it was my father and my kids don’t know, but they know that my father was not a good person and that I no longer speak to him. And so they’re, they understand that there was some trauma involved, but they don’t know exactly what. And if I was in a position where I felt like they’re ready to hear it, I would tell them and say, you know, unfortunately it can be anybody and here’s what happened with me. And you know, we don’t need to share obviously any details that are going to traumatize the child, but it’s absolutely appropriate to share if they’re ready to hear it and you’re feeling ready and healed enough to be able to share it. So I think it’s an individual choice that, you know, may help.
And there’s other things that I’ve shared about other stories. You know, recently here in Canada, there was a child who was 14 committed suicide because of sextortion, somebody that they met online. And so I will share certain details that are sort of cautionary tales for my kids of like, yeah, you know, this poor 14 year old, like, didn’t feel that they could talk to their parents about it. And I just wanna, you know, remind you guys that our, what’s important to us is your safety. I if, if I know that you’re in a situation that is already punishment enough to you, my goal isn’t to punish you further. You know, my, my goal is to help you get safe and be able to figure out a way out of it. And you know, I want you to always know you can come to me.
So I’ll share those kinds of stories as well. And those are also helpful because they can relate to a child that’s a similar age, you know?
Wendy:
Yeah. Wow. So incredible. Okay, well just like, I know we gotta wrap here, but this is this last point of really just making sure our kids know that it’s, it’s just not okay when their children to have anyone touch them and their private parts Yeah.
Rosalia:
And what to do. Exactly. Yeah. So I, you know, I, I know from personal experience as well as from hearing many anecdotal stories from survivors that they heard from a parent, you know, nobody should touch you there. And so they internalize that as it’s my responsibility to protect that part of my body. Right? And it’s, that’s not necessarily the message we’re, we’re giving them. What we want to explain to them is that, that is inappropriate. Help them understand the reasons why, right? Those are parts that belong to only them. Those, you know, as their body is developing, they only, they can learn about their own body and be given that freedom to learn and explore their developing bodies, right?
And so no one should interfere with that. Neither, you know, peers, teens, or adults. And so when we give them that information, they will recognize like, I’m allowed to have pleasure in my body cuz we wanna teach them like, it’s okay to explore your body, it’s your body, right? We want them to be connected to the idea of pleasure, which can be eating something that you love. It can be, you know, going swimming and, you know, having fun in the water. Like there’s all kinds of pleasure, right? So we, we want them to recognize that they have that ability to experience it without shame, but at the same time, if something were to happen that it’s not their fault even if they thought that they wanted it.
Right?
Wendy:
Yeah.
Rosalia:
You know, I think a lot of survivors have gone through this, this very shameful experience of their body responded to touch and so they thought it’s my fault or something’s wrong with me. Yeah. I was told that that was bad touch, but it feels good, right? So this is also why language is so important to help kids understand the, you know, using the word safe versus unsafe instead of good versus bad touch.
Wendy:
Yeah. I love that
Rosalia:
Help them understand their bodies, right? And so when we give them more detail than just, nobody should touch your, you know, privates, they have context to understand what’s happening and to recognize, hey, somebody did something they weren’t, weren’t supposed to. I froze, I didn’t know what to do. You know? So when we tell kids, run, yell, tell, and they freeze because that’s their sympathetic nervous system response, right? Then they may fear like, oh, I did something wrong. I didn’t run, I, you know, my body froze, or my body experienced pleasure, but I, I know it’s not appropriate. What do I do? So they may hide that because of that fear of repercussions or shame or they didn’t do what the parents said.
This was actually something that Tarana Burke talks about in her book that she published last year where she talks about that experience. Her mom was like, don’t let anybody touch you there. And then when she was abused, she felt horrible shame and that she couldn’t tell and that she didn’t follow her mother’s orders. Right? And so a lot of survivors go through that. So we want just essentially to let kids know if there’s a possibility for you to get out of that situation. If you recognize, if your body is telling you something’s wrong, I’m uncomfortable, this doesn’t feel right and you’re not able to leave, it’s not your fault. And you can always still tell me, I’m always going to believe you, I’m always going to help you be safe, you’re not gonna be in trouble.
Right? So we want them to recognize that they can seek support for that so that they have that, that, you know, that’s an exit strategy particularly for little kids because they may not be able to get out of a situation. And a lot of times, particularly for parents who aren’t teaching consent based education, right? If, if they are forcing grandma, you know, to give, give her a hug and you know, if they can’t say no to a hug, how are they supposed to say no to other things that feel more intimidating, right?
Wendy:
Yes.
Rosalia:
So we, we don’t wanna put the onus on kids to feel like they’re responsible if they don’t get it right. If somebody, you know, does something that they’re, you know, at fault. And so giving them a comprehensive education around private part safety is really key.
Wendy:
Dang. That is, that is so, so important. And I would say that’s why like our, I love how our work layers upon each other because this is why it’s like you, you just wanna have a compassionate discipline strategy in your home. Like if you have punishment in any way that you are linking mistakes or, you know, misbehavior with like, pain and suffering and thinking that you gotta make your kid feel worse in order to make them behave better, they’re gonna, they’re going to be scared to tell you things.
Rosalia:
Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:
It’s just the way it is. Like, so it just is more than ever like just solidifies that we, everyone, we really need to learn how to have compassionate discipline instead of punishment in our home so we can teach our children that mistakes are just opportunities to learn. Doesn’t mean you’re bad, doesn’t mean you’re going to get in trouble. Doesn’t mean that you’re gonna get hurt, harmed, humiliated, shamed. Like it just means that we’re gonna talk about it and I’m gonna teach you and I’m gonna mentor you and I’m gonna help you. Like that’s all it means. Yeah. And that opens the doors for them to actually tell you. Cuz that is a mind f-ing situation for a kid, the last point you just described.
Yeah. So, and especially if they’re in a home with punishment.
Rosalia:
Yeah. And, and I, I think a really key piece, and I I I know you talk about this too, is that unconditional love, right? Reminding our kids of our unconditional love, because that’s a tool that is very frequently used by offenders. You know, if this, if your parent found, finds out they’re not gonna love you anymore, or they’re gonna be so mad at you, they’re not gonna forgive you. You know, you are gonna be the bad kid. So there’s all these manipulative tactics that they use to keep children from speaking up. But if a child is secure in their relationship with a parent, that threat holds no weight.
Wendy:
Yes. Yes. And that looks like no matter how bad your kid is messed up, but no matter how hard he smacked his sister today, when you used unconditional love and compassionate discipline, that’s what creates that. That’s what creates that. So, yeah. And there’s lots of other ways to bring unconditional love in our home, but oh my goodness, Rosalie, you are such a light to the world. Thank you for being here today with me and thank you for everything that you are doing, your relentless, courageous, light-filled work. I know so many families are gonna be blessed by this episode. So many children are going to be just helped in tremendous ways. So thank you for being here. Tell everyone where they can find you and where can we watch your TED Talks and all the things.
Rosalia:
Thank you Wendy. And I feel the same about you. You know, we’re doing this work together for families and we’re, you know, this is what will change the world. So thank you for doing the work you do. So if anybody wants to connect with me, they can find me at consentparenting.com or on Instagram and Facebook also @consentparenting. And my TEDx talk can be found on the TEDx channel on YouTube or through my link Tree, through my social media. And it’s called Consent Kids and Culture.
Wendy:
Love it. And you have, don’t you have a, do you have a membership program now too? Like a coaching program?
Rosalia:
No, I, but I actually am doing a different model. Okay. So it’s a, it’s mostly for kids who are going into daycare and preschool cuz there’s such vulnerable age groups. So it’s really helping parents learn how to get really properly set up for the safest experience with, you know, other caregivers. And so I do that once a year. I’m shifting it a little bit this year, but that launches in April, May usually, and it’s an eight week program, so not a full year membership or anything, but it’s a really fun coaching group cuz there’s so much beautiful growth that happens within those eight weeks.
Wendy:
Heck yes. Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, we’ll make sure we put links to everything in the show notes page. And listeners, as you’re listening, please, I’m sure Rosalia, you would agree that the number one way you can say thank you to Rosalia and myself is to screenshot right now. As you’re listening and share, please share to social tag Rosalia @consentparenting. I’m @FreshStartWendy. Tell us, you know, what really hit home or in the area that you realize like, oh my goodness, I, this is, you know, a mistake that I’ve been making, that I have plans to change and we, you know, it’s, it’s really fun to connect in dms and just see you guys sharing this. This is what will help Rosalia’s work get more and more into the world when there’s this, this sharing that happens.
It really just expedites the learning across the world. So. All right. Well, thanks again for being here, Rosalia.
Rosalia:
Thank you. It’s been a pleasure.
For links and more info about everything we talked about in today’s episode, head to fresh start family online.com/167.
Stella:
For more information, go to freshstartfamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening, families, have a great day.
