On this episode of the Fresh Start Family Show, Wendy chats with the incredible Destini Ann Davis. Destini is a working mom and parenting coach, author, TedX speaker and host of B*tch, You Doing a Good Job podcast. She advocates for peaceful parenting and positive discipline techniques that encourage both the parent and child to connect and communicate.
Wendy and Destini dig into the intriguing topic of seeing boundaries as building fences (which help kids develop intrinsic control and cultivates the child to practice making decisions) vs using leashes with our kids (which are designed to control our kids and always backfires in the end).
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Episode Highlights:
- The boundary is something we as the parents are in control of. We can’t enforce an expectation without being punitive and using control, which isn’t gentle parenting
- As parents, we have the responsibility to set them up in an environment where we can cultivate a behavior without using force.
- If our kids don’t respect the boundary, then it’s probably not a good boundary
- Our kids’ behavior is trying to show us a need / desire that we need to explore so they don’t just find another outlet.
- Our kids need some autonomy to practice making decisions for themselves. We can give them freedom within a boundary to figure out who they are while teaching them to respect their future self.
- Sometimes boundaries are proactive and sometimes they are in response to what we learned from an experience
- Kids make good decision when they feel good about themselves, when they trust themselves and believe that we trust them and give them developmental appropriate empowerment & control
- We have to have life skills so we can model them to our kids as they develop them within the fence
- Your kids are going to show you all the areas you either need to grow, heal or accept
- Fences are there to help them have more peace and joy and empowerment in their lives
Resources Mentioned:
Where to find Destini:
Podcast (Spotify)
Her Book Very Intentional Parenting: Awakening the Empowered Parent Within
Her TEDx Talk No Bad Kids
IG Post about Adults Holding Kids to a Different Standard than We are Held to
IG Post on Fences & Boundaries
IG Post on How Can I Support You in Getting This Done
Not able to listen or want to read along with us?
Here is the episode transcript!
Wendy:
Hello listeners, welcome back. I’m your host, Wendy Snyder, positive parenting educator and family life coach. And today on the show I have the Destini, Ann Davis. You guys, I am so pumped to bring you this conversation. It is Mother’s Day this Sunday. Happy early Mother’s Day, by the way, to all of our incredible listeners. I wanted to air this episode this week because I think it is the best gift. You are welcome. An inspiring, beautiful, motivating conversation with the Destini. Ann Davis Destini has been someone that I have admired for years. I think she just has the most incredible, relatable, funny personality and the way she teaches is just so impactful and motivating for me.
So I’ll tell you a little bit more about Destini and also what we are talking about in this episode. So Destini Davis is a compassionate and relatable source for navigating motherhood. She takes the psychology of parenting and turns it into fun, digestible content for her community. She teaches with empathy and empowers parents to shift the culture of their homes to more intention, grace, and presence. Through her social media impact seemed to happen overnight, though her social media impacts seemed to happen overnight. Her work and passion for positive discipline have grown through years of study, practice and implementation from the public school system to her own home.
Destini has been developing her connection based approach for 10 plus years now. She has a heart for parents and has seen firsthand how a family can transform through intentional, empowered parenting in a society where parents are more stressed than ever. Destini Ann’s heartfelt content reminds parents of the power of taking care of themselves. This is her passion and purpose to remind parents of their innate power so that they can give that same gift to their kids. Ugh, she’s incredible. I just think Destini has such a cool way of combining this like easygoing, relatable vibe.
Also with like, Hey, I’m gonna call you out and like not shy away from calling BS BS. One of her taglines that is so awesome is, bitch, you’re doing a good job. And I love it because even though she’s like really courageous when she comes to like, Hey, why are we still doing this? Is the 21st century? Like, why are we still thinking this way? Like, y’all know you’re still doing this, right? Like don’t act like you’re not doing it like she – she’ll have that vibe sometimes and then she totally combines it effortlessly and beautifully and authentically with like, and I get you. Like I know why we do this.
I do it. You do it. Like we’re all doing it. So let’s get together to learn and grow. And through that like vulnerability, relatability, funny aspect of her teaching style and just her innate incredible wisdom, I just adore her and think she’s just such a gift to the world. And in this episode, we are talking all about how as parents, we can see boundaries that we set with our children as building fences versus using leashes. And when we do this, it creates freedom, it creates safety, it builds life skills and it builds connection. So I hope you guys enjoy this episode.
I hope it blesses you. And I hope you go into your Mother’s Day weekend just knowing how much you are seen, you are admired, and how you are doing a great job. As Destini would say, bitch, you’re doing a good job. So happy Mother’s Day and without further ado, enjoy this episode. Make sure you go give Destini some love, get her book, support her on all the socials. She is just a joy to follow on Instagram and TikTok. She will brighten your feed, make you think, make you laugh, all the things. But thanks for being here listeners, and enjoy this episode.
Stella:
Well, hey there, I’m Stella. Welcome to my mom and dad’s podcast, the Fresh Start Family Show. We’re so happy you’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean, Jesus, and rock and roll and believe deeply in the true power of love and kindness. Together we hope to inspire you to expand your heart, learn new tools, and strengthen your family. Enjoy the show.
Wendy:
Well hey there families and welcome back to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family Show. I am literally freaking out listeners because we have the Destini Ann Davis with us today. Welcome to the show, Destini.
Destini:
Thank you so much. I’m excited to finally be here. This is so dope, it’s incredible and I know this is gonna be amazing.
Wendy:
It’s gonna be so amazing. And I just first off, just feel so honored to spend the hour with you. I feel like I don’t get nervous much for these shows, but holy smokes, I respect you so – I respect all of our guests. Come on. But man, Destini, I just look up so much to your work and I’m so grateful for the way that you pour light into families and parents and just everything you do. So it really is such an honor to have you here today and I am so stoked to spend the next hour with you.
Destini:
Oh man, that means the world to me. Thank you so much. Don’t be nervous. We’re all just like, I know, right?
Wendy:
Isn’t that
Destini:
Phones up under these little suits? Like we’re all the same. It’s all good.
Wendy:
I know it’s, and and once you’re like 10 minutes in our conversation you’re like, oh my gosh, we’re just riffing. We’re good, we’re good. But yes, absolutely. Oh my goodness. Well, families, today we are gonna be talking with Destini about a lot of stuff. But number one, you know our, our topic of the day, we’re gonna talk about seeing boundaries as building fences versus using leashes with our kids, which you just, you have so many incredible messages that you put out into the world. But this was one that I noticed, I, I don’t know when you posted it, but I was like, Ooh, let’s dive into that today. So we’re gonna have a good conversation around that. But first, will you share your story with us, talk to us about why you are so passionate about this connection based parenting that you love teaching about.
And tell us a little bit about your motherhood journey before you found this work and what you do nowadays and, and all the things help, help our listeners just get to know you a little bit better.
Destini:
Yeah, absolutely. So I became a mom at 19 and I went into motherhood with a lot of trauma. I experienced a lot of abuse, all kinds of abuse in my childhood. And I didn’t have the best relationship with my parents, amazing people, but just I didn’t feel understood. And when I became a mom I was so hellbent on being different than them and I just didn’t want my daughter to be misunderstood. I want her to be happy. And that very quickly turned into permissive like parenting where it’s just like as long as she’s happy, everything’s fine. And that obviously is traumatizing as well to a child. And then I found conscious parenting and my world just opened up because I realized it’s not even so much about the tools.
Like I don’t even think I needed my parents to be like better people or do things differently in order for me to, to have I guess turned out different or whatever. What I was realizing was like I just needed them to like take accountability, notice me validate my experience. Like I say this all the time that I don’t even know if I needed the experiences to be different. I think I just needed a supportive leader to consciously be aware of who I was and be like, I get why you’re upset about that or I’m sorry that, that that happened to you. And to de to validate those experiences. And so that’s kind of where I am on my journey. It’s like I’m being authentic, I’m giving myself grace and at the same time I’m fully validating my daughter’s experience and consciously showing up every day to get to know who she is today so that she feels honored and celebrated for who she is.
That way, regardless of whatever I do or the next person or a friend or a relationship, she’s like, I know who the hell I am. I feel grounded and confident in that and I can persevere and get through anything.
Wendy:
Heck yes. And that is so what conscious connected parenting is, right? It’s not about perfection. I know you have curated just a community of acceptance that is so freaking beautiful that you know, there is just conversations that happen and healing and all the things, but I know that you just meet people right where they are and there is no shame in like coming to the table and realizing like as you always say, what went well today? What didn’t go great, what did I learn? How do I wanna do it differently tomorrow? So showing up in that way is just so beautiful for kids. So, so how old was your kiddo when you found this kind of different way of doing things and you realized like, oh dang, I’m actually like being permissive or I need support.
Like how old was your little one?
Destini:
I would say she was probably about six. Okay. And she’s, she’s 10 now. She was about six when I moved onto this like conscious parenting journey so to speak. And really that was coinciding with my own healing journey and me like I need to figure out my own patterns. And so it kind of worked hand in hand, but if I’m being honest, it was probably not until she was eight when she mo went from homeschool to traditional school to Montessori, excuse me, to Montessori school where I really had to like stand on what, and actually practice the things that I was learning because she was kind of, you know, quote unquote easy there.
The transitions were easy. It’s like, yeah, it’s easy to discipline when you can wake up at noon, right? Yeah,
Wendy:
Totally.
Destini:
Well, when we had to wake up at six, seven o’clock in the morning, that’s when it was like, oh these are the things that my clients are experiencing or these are the things that you know, other parents have to deal with. And I actually still have to be conscious even though it’s bringing up stuff for me that I literally have not experienced for the past eight years. And so I think that we really dug our heels in and started, you know, lacing up our bootstraps maybe two years ago.
Wendy:
Ah, nice. And look at all that you have grown and done in these two years. So you, you just had your TED Talk drop. Congratulations.
Destini:
Thank you so much.
Wendy:
I mean, how did that feel tell
Destini:
Us Incredible, incredible to little me just because of what this topic was like. It kind of, I felt very just validated in my experience of being the quote unquote bad kid and being able to turn that message into something that’s transformative and something that people relate to that felt, that felt really, really good. And also just the fact that these kind of conversations are more mainstream. Like I love that, I love so much that what seems like a lonely journey to me. Like you said, there’s community and there’s conversations and I look under the comments and I’m like, I don’t even have to respond. Like y’all are talking to each other about stuff that I wouldn’t have even felt com. I wouldn’t have felt comfortable, you know, five years being like my kid hit me not with anybody in my community.
They’re like, girl, what? Yeah, you can’t do what, what’s wrong with you? So I yeah, am very grateful that the stage is getting bigger for conscious parenting so that we can have conversations so it’s less lonely.
Wendy:
Heck yes. Yeah. And you mentioned that, you know, when you say you’re the bad kid, so, and this, we’ll, you know, we’ll talk about this in our conversation today around like building boundaries as fences, but you, I mean I think we have similarities there where like the constraints and the, the type of autocratic parenting that we were raised with, do I remember your story right that caused you when once you were a little bit older to revolt to like, and it, and for me it was like always behind closed doors, right? Like I was a straight A student, great athlete, but holy man behind closed doors. I was like, you know, there was, my parents had no idea what was going on. Or even if they did, they like acted like they did it, which I see show up so much in my, in my teenager’s friend’s lives.
I’m like your par, your parents know what you’re freaking doing but they don’t know how the what the F to do about it. Right? Yeah. So, but was that how it showed up for you? Like you just revolted or,
Destini:
Yeah, probably. I would say for a while it wasn’t intentional. A lot of times with authoritarian parenting it really is high expectations but low support and low support isn’t just compassion and patience. Low support also could mean like not having age appropriate developmentally appropriate boundaries. And so the expectations were super high, right? But I had so much freedom, I had way too much freedom. I was by myself a lot and so I wasn’t really in situations where I had to learn to stress tolerance or I had to learn relationship skills cuz I kind of could just do what I wanted to do until I got on my parents’ nerves and then all these expectations came out of nowhere.
So I think that my behavior, I don’t wanna say that I was like rebelling or revolting, it was kind of just like I should not be exposed to these things. And yet I am like I wasn’t on aim talking to strangers because I was like trying to be rebellious. It was like I have the internet and I’m a kid and I have older cousins and they’re, you know what I’m saying? That kind of thing. And I also did the whole straight a like kind of thing. For me it was more about wanting to get positive affirmation because I heard so many negative messages all day long. So it felt good to like get a’s and hear, finally hear my parents like saying something good about me on the phone instead like, oh my god, this girl, right?
So I skipped grades and I got good grades and I went to summer school so I graduate early and all of these things. But yeah, I was still very much like, wild, wild west.
Wendy:
Yes. Oh that’s so funny that you say that cuz I have a similar thing, like did all the straight A’s summer school, graduated early and I don’t think I’ve ever thought about how that it was like just to have my parents and, and now that makes sense to think about it a little bit because I still, no matter how disconnected you may feel, we, we love our parents so much, right? But no matter how disconnected you may feel like you do always want them to be proud of you, right? I mean we all teach it differently to our kids now, right? We want them to be inspired by themselves and, and let them know how much they should look within, right? But it is just, it’s just this thing like you just, you just want your parents to be proud of you and when you feel like you gotta, you just, you do it in whatever way you can.
So, and and to the world that appears to be great but on the, on the back end, if there’s like any type of a turmoil going on, that’s what I think all of our work helps to, to even that ground, right? Yeah. Like you can still get straight A’s if you want, but on the inside you gotta be, you gotta be thriving too as a, as a human. So yes. Beautiful. So you got your Ted talk, you got your book, your book is so good and I love it Destini, I love, I’m listening to your book right now on Audible and I love it cuz your voice, oh my gosh, your voice and your stories and everything. I mean you’re just so dang relatable. I don’t know how like all you’re writing and then how you show up on TikTok and Instagram. I mean you just put this stuff out there, it looks like you literally just are like, Hey, I’m just sitting here and I’ve thought of this and I’m just gonna drop this minute long fricking piece of wisdom that is like so profound.
It like hits all of our hearts like a ton of bricks in the best way and you’re just like, all right, peace out. We’re just like, oh shit, that was amazing. And you’re just like, all right, I’m gonna go to the gym now. So it’s so fun to listeners, you gotta like go follow Destini on all the platforms, get her book. I really recommend your book on Audible, but tell us how was that book journey for you? I mean, gosh that had to have been, how long did it take you? Like was that a quite the journey?
Destini:
It took over a year to write it and Yeah. Heck yeah. It was such a journey. I wasn’t even expecting to write a book and they reached out to me and I was like, yeah, I wanna do this. I was previously actually working on like something on my own that was just like something on my heart and sharing my story and when they reached out I was already getting a lot of like, but how, like practically how do I do this? A lot of people in my community are, I guess because of how relatable I make it in cuz there’s not shame, there’s a lot of people like, all right, I kind of hear what you’re saying. Like, you know, they’re not gung ho Yes, peaceful parent. A lot of them are transitioning.
And so I wanted to put out something that could speak to people that are struggling with this, could speak to people that are like, this is completely new to me and could also speak to people that were like, are where I was when my child was eight, which was like, I get this conceptually and at the same time there’s still some, some stones that I need to turn over.
Wendy:
Yes. Oh well that book is incredible listeners, so make sure you go get your hands on that. So. Oh, so good. Okay, well so fun to hear just a little bit more about your story and what you’ve been up to and in the world. So well let’s, well let’s help right into our subject matter, which is seeing boundaries as building fences versus using leashes. And so, and so we have some subpoints here about how doing this creates freedom, creates safety, builds life skills and builds connection with our kids. But give us like your little overview of like when you had this realization that you, this vision that you describe it as boundaries and firm limits can be fences instead of leashes.
Destini:
Yeah, absolutely. So I constantly hear or heard for a while until I clarified on social media like you don’t have boundaries, peaceful parents, disappearance, they don’t have boundaries. And I was like, right, where is this coming from? Like why, why do you believe this? And I realized very quickly that a lot of people don’t realize the difference between a rule and a boundary, right? And so a lot of times people think that there’s no expectations and that because we let our children do certain things that there’s no boundaries. But the truth of the matter is that you can have an expectation of a child, right?
But you can’t actually make them do that unless you’re punitive, unless you’re using control, right? So the best route and the best option is to set up their environment to make sure that you can cultivate that behavior without using force. And so we have rules, we have expectations, but it’s my job as the leader to make sure that I’m setting you up for success. And I think that, I was reading Dr. Shefali’s new book and she was like, it’s not called child like, it’s called parenting. So the responsibility is on us, but how, like, how nonsensical is it that we put the responsibility of the behavior formation on the child?
And a boundary is such a powerful thing and it’s often not visible to the outside eye because the boundary is something that I’m in control of, right? That’s what I am in control of. And so somebody might walk into my house and see like, oh you know, your kid is watching TV and I don’t let my kids watch tv, blah blah, blah, you don’t have any rules. And I’m like, well little do you know, she just got the remote like before she finished her chore, TV was impossible. Like I don’t have to have the conversation of, yeah, stop, don’t turn on the tv, don’t turn on the tv, don’t turn on the tv. The remote’s just not accessible and that’s a boundary.
And those boundaries are gonna be based off of your values and what makes sense to you and your family consciously or whatever. But a boundary is not like parents say, well they’re not respecting my boundaries then it’s not a good boundary, right? You’re looking at it as if it’s a boundary and it’s, and they’re like, well somebody said the other day, they were like, well I told her she can’t use the iPad but she sneaks and gets it then one she’s showing you an interest and you probably shouldn’t go against that. We probably need to find a healthy way for her to explore the iPad maybe with you, but also put a lock on the iPad,
Wendy:
Change the, change the code code,
Destini:
Change the code or something. But, but it is both and right? Because we have boundaries, but we also don’t just like constrict our kids and anytime a child is doing something, they’re showing us a need, a desire and if we ignore it, they’re just gonna find another outlet and it’s probably not gonna be the healthiest outlet.
Wendy:
Yes. I love it. And, and and our first point just to kind of hit on this concept is that boundaries, seeing boundaries as fences creates freedom. So it’s like this idea that our kids are actually gonna be allowed to have the space to develop the life skill, right? Of doing the chore first and then turning on the tv, right? Versus the leash in in like, and you can riff on this in, in your own way that like I envision the leash is like you’re tugging, I have two big dogs, I have an English black lab and a and a husky, but like, it, it’s the leash is like you’re pulling them, you’re every around, every corner. Like Herby has to wear this fricking gentle liter on his face cuz he is like 90 pounds of pure muscle.
And if I don’t have that thing on him, like I have no control of that dog because I have not invested in like, I actually did invest in training and then we never followed through with it. So I guess call me a permissive parenting with my, with my dogs. But like I, I look at like the way I lead him and like everything is like I am in total control. Like, and and and so this idea of freedom pulls you away from like this concept of control and moves you more into empowerment. Would you agree? Like as far as them learning?
Destini:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean if you never get to make decisions for yourself, I don’t when is that gonna happen? Yeah. Like at one point in your journey are you like, okay, even though I didn’t practice this in my childhood, like now I know how to stand up for myself now I know how to make decisions now I know what feels good to me and what doesn’t feel good to me. Now I know how to take risks in a calculated way that honors myself. Where else are they gonna learn how to do that? And so the boundaries are like, just don’t go too far. That’s it. This is within the, the realm of what is acceptable here and whatever you do in here, that’s you learning and growing and exploring.
And the thing about boundaries is that we’re gonna have to constantly be, they’re gonna be evolving, right? We don’t know every area of our child’s life that’s gonna need a boundary. Sometimes boundaries are proactive and then sometimes boundaries like, oh I didn’t know that’s what that app was. We’re gonna have to sit down and figure this out together. And I think that when your children have that, they have the freedom to be able to explore themselves without constricting their future. Right? And I think that that’s what kind of happened to me cuz I had tons of freedom but there was no fence. There was no fence but there was an expectation of sit right here, don’t move, don’t move.
Like I’m gonna go over here but you stay on this bench and I’m looking around to not just see land and
Wendy:
Right, exactly.
Destini:
I’m like Simba and Mufasa like everything we touch and I’m like I wanna go over there. So
Wendy:
I want to go to the bones area.
Destini:
Exactly. But that was not honoring my future self. Yeah, right. Because it wasn’t developmentally appropriate. And so there’s a balance the boundaries honor who they are right now. Like yeah, be you right now And at the same time there’s a fence cuz there’s a future you that also needs some honoring too. And if you go past this fence, you’re gonna start to get in dangerous territory with future you.
Wendy:
Heck yes. And I can see this all playing always in my kid’s life, but I can see this really playing out right now with like the give and take with my daughter at 15 right now, right? Like she might make a mistake and then we kind of pull back a little bit, we create some fences again or or tighten the fences a little bit and then we loosen the fences a little bit. Well this, this, this is good cause it leads us into our second point Destini of the safety. So like remember families, we’re not talking about electric fences here, right? So, so like I know, you know, it sounds like part of your story a and many of us were raised in these auth auth, autocratic or authoritarian homes is like when someone did jump the fence or hit the fence, there was this shock, right?
There was like what the fuck? And it was, there was danger, there was danger associated, right? So it creates a slack of safety. So for us as we’re envisioning our role as connected parents, setting firm kind boundaries with our kids, like having this vision of safety, right? So let’s riff about that for a little bit so kids can like really again learn like what works as far as communication goes, what works as far as sequencing your day and making sure you’re keep like contributing to keep the house somewhat clean, right? Like, I don’t know if it’ll ever be clean as we have children in our house, but I don’t know how the people do it that have like these spotless houses. I’m like, you do your, are your children human, but like your te they’re learning these life skills, right?
And we’re, we have this freedom for them to learn, make mistakes and then when they make mistakes we have to have the safety around the teaching. So riff about that a little bit for me on the safety side of having boundaries, defenses.
Destini:
Yeah. So I think that it’s about emotional safety and it’s about mental safety and the freedom part is I expect you to make mistakes. Yeah. That’s what the fence is for, right? And when the boundaries are clear, when they’re fair, when they’re rooted in my values, like when you hit the fence, it’s actually not that big of a deal, right? Like yeah, that’s the point of the fence. You didn’t go too far and if you did go too far and it is outside of our values, then you’re not the issue. The fence is the issue. The construction of the fence is the issue, right? And maybe mommy needs a more realistic fence and we can do that next time.
I think what’s most important practically in the moment is like I just don’t feel the need to discipline right that second, you made a mistake, let’s figure out the mistake, let’s clean up the mistake. Or even better, let’s figure out how you’re feeling about the mistake. Let’s manage those feelings first. Because guess what, once we take care of that, you’re gonna be way more receptive to whatever it is I’m trying to teach you. Or the boundary changing. For example, very clear example, my daughter was using this app and I thought it was just like one of those like, you know, make little characters kind of app or whatever.
And I’ve seen it, she’s used to around me and I’m usually pretty good about like looking up the apps, but it just looked so very cut and track. Yeah. So she’s innocently just using it around me. And I was like, is that a comment? Does somebody give you a comment? Like what is that? And so in that moment I was like, okay, I already know this is gonna be a no or this boundary’s gonna have to change, but this is not her fault, right? The fence, the fence was not well constructed right now. I didn’t do my due diligence. So I let her finish
Wendy:
great example
Destini:
next to me. Yeah. I let her finish, she’s sitting next to me and I said, you know, that’s the social network situation and so we’re gonna have to come up with something. I don’t really have an answer right now. You’re going to your dad’s house so we’re gonna delete the app and we’ll figure it out later. Yeah. She was so upset. So many tears. And I’m not like, well you knew better. Again, it’s the fence. I’m like, I see why you would be so pissed off. You’re playing this game, you better go to your dad’s house. It’s born over there, thought you had something to do and I’m taking this from you. And I’m like, I get that. And I say at the same time, it’s mommy’s job to what? And she’s like to keep me safe. And I’m like, I know you’re upset with me and I promise you we’re gonna find a solution that works for everybody. That’s it.
Destini:
We’re gonna fix the fence. I don’t need to fix you. Not a bad kid. I don’t need to fix me. We’re just gonna fix the fence. And she came back and she’s like, look, I really like the app. And I’m like, well yeah, it’s like TikTok, right? Like we can do it together, but you’re not gonna, you’re not gonna be able to do it. I love that. Also, she’s 10, right? Yeah. We need a boundary. So I’m not gonna just say don’t do it homegirl can’t even Google Coco Melon on her phone. You can’t do anything. And I trust her and I believe her. And at the same time I’m still concerned with future her, right? I’m not expecting 10 year old her to be able to honor future her.
And so I think again, I just focused on the fence. Let’s come up with a better fence that still keeps you safe really quickly. I think that if, if I can, I think that this illustration could be helpful for parents because sometimes it’s hard to explain to kids why they have to have boundaries and why they have to hear no and why their friends can do certain things that they can’t do, right? So this is the example that I used used with my daughter and I think she gets it every time. And so I guess up for your kid. Do we have time for me to explain earlier? Heck yes. Yeah. Okay. We have all, all the time for you. Yes. Oh, so she was a competitive gymnast for a while and she’s like, my friends can have TikTok and it’s not fair, blah blah, blah. And first of all, I’m validated.
I’m like, ugh girl, I totally get it. I said the same thing to my mom, but I was like, here’s the thing. Stuff like that is like learning a new trick, right? You didn’t just go into your back handspring like you did a roll and then you did a cartwheel and then you did a back handspring. And I was like, what do you think would’ve happened if you went to do a back hand spring when all you knew how to do was a roll? And she was like, I would’ve hurt myself. And I was like, exactly. And right now you’re just, you’re at the back handspring level and then you’re gonna be able to do it back tuck, but you gotta master this. And it, I feel like it was empowering for her. Like, I’m not lacking, this is just where I’m at right now and I’m going to get hurt.
You know, it’s not about mommy punishing me. Mommy’s literally like, you are such a good back hand springer, let’s stay here. And when I put it that way, I’m like, it may seem unfair, but think about it, a year from now you’re gonna be a pro at back tucking. And the people that you see that it looks like they’ve got it together, they’re gonna have to backtrack because they didn’t go about it the right way. They didn’t follow the right steps. And I think that, I guess because in her brain she can logically see that it made so much sense to her and she realizes like, mommy’s not just being mean to me. Like this is a level and a progression kind of thing.
Wendy:
Heck yes. That’s a great example. And the empathy and connection and compassion you kept during it, right? Like it, that is so pivotal to help her understand and and accept the teaching, right? Like yeah, this, this just played out with with. And I think it’s so fascinating, like the idea of like the fence not being quite there, right? Because you can look at it as like, hey, either the fence isn’t, fence isn’t quite where we want it or what we want it because it’s not nec. Like we have a tendency to blame the kids. Like what the hell were you thinking? It’s your, but taking responsibility and being like, hey is the, is the fence developmentally appropriate because we do have the ability to bend with parameters, right?
Which I’ll, yeah. Share real quick, this story with Stella the other night we ended up bending with parameters, but it came after a conversation about the fence. Or is it something that’s just like, hey, I haven’t done, I haven’t, I need to do more work or I need to invest more time into educating you about the reason why the fence is there, right? So if you did skip the fence and you ended up in the bones of the bones of mufa mo fasa land, whatever it is, it probably whatever, I probably just realized that I didn’t quite educate enough or help you understand why the fence is good for you in addition to being like, it’s good for everyone, right? Like, like I love that your daughter knows like your job is to keep me safe, mom.
Right? And I bet you she also knows your job is to teach her how to keep herself safe, right? Like that’s so beautiful about this work. But yeah, this all in world other night, Stella, Stella and her best friend, you know, common teenagers, Southern California, they’re, they’re, you know, they make mistakes here and there, right? And there was like a big one that happened a while back and we were like, all right, we’re gonna pause a little bit on this or that. And she was begging, begging, begging, Hey I wanna go over, I wanna hang out, I wanna hang out please. And we ended up just having the most beautiful, I mean it probably was like 40 minutes by the end of the conversation, but we, we entered it with like, nope, firm boundary, like we’re gonna just chill at home. It was like a Saturday night and we’re like, we want you to take this babysitting job, you’re just gonna chill at home. And she was just in tears and she was like, I please, I just wanna go over there.
And so we had the conversation, we talked about the life skills, we, we talked about our concerns, right? Around the safety, the fu like everything about the future you and what she’s learning and all these things. And in the end, because strong-willed kids are so dang good, right? Yes. At like making their point, which is I’m like, dang girl, you know what I, I think this is a great opportunity for you to practice. So you know what? Cool, well not, I’m not cool with five hours, but we’ll drop you off. You guys can go to the hot tub. We’ll we’ll pick you up in a little bit. And the only thing I ask is when you come home, tell me how it went. Like how did everything go? Whatever it may be. So that was an example of like bending with parameters, right? Like the fence, like it was really close for those like three weeks. And then we were thinking we weren’t gonna extend the fence for another two weeks, but then we were like, oh you know what, that makes sense.
Like it feels like you are ready to practice the life skill. So we’ll push the fence back a little bit tonight, come back, we’ll talk about it. So I love the idea that the fence is movable, the fence is not electric and it just creates such great conversations. So
Destini:
Well isn’t that the point for them to like learn to be problem solvers, right?
Wendy:
Yeah.
Destini:
That’s so the point. So we gotta kind of, we have to let them be in on it. We gotta let them solve problems with us if we want them to know how, how to do that. And so that’s fantastic and that’s very empowering and I always say that kids make good decisions when they feel good about themselves. Yes. That’s, that’s just this when they trust themselves and when they believe that you trust them and when you give them developmentally appropriate empowerment control X, Y, and Z.
Wendy:
Yes. Yes. That is one of the biggest things I see the difference in raising a teenager in southern California. Like versus 99% of her friends, the trust aspect like, like Mo, the majority of her buddies right now, there is, there is no trust in the home. Like most of ’em are getting drug tested the second they walk in alcohol test, it’s like a breathalyzer. There’s like breathalyzers going on. I’m like dang, there’s phones being checked every night. There’s like, there’s just so much.
Destini:
Those are leashes.
Wendy:
Those are freaking leashes. Yes. Destini. That’s exactly it. That’s important. But
Destini:
See this is the hard part though that I will say is that yeah, if you go too long without fences,
Wendy:
Yeah
Destini:
Right, they’re getting bigger. If you are fearing what could happen, the longer you go, the harder it is to go with connection and it’s a lot easier to just start creating leashes. Yeah. Connection is hard when they’re older because you haven’t practiced it, they don’t really trust you to connect with them. Yeah. And so I can totally empathize with like, oh my God, I see where this is going. The only thing that I can do is like just be on them a hundred percent because we haven’t built that trust. I haven’t given them Yeah. Empowerment and X, Y, and Z. So I can get why that would be.
And it is a very difficult journey to undo that and to start to give them freedom in a way that’s developmentally appropriate. Because a child that hasn’t had fences, their development looks different than a child that has had fences.
Wendy:
Yep.
Destini:
Yeah. And so, so true. You can’t look at it as like, y’all are both 16, we have to look at it, okay, these fences have to look a little bit different for you and for me and for us because we kind of didn’t have them for a long time. And I think that it’s important, that’s the piece of consciousness is like looking like, who is my kid? What about this do I have to accept as just now this is a part of our journey because this is how we’ve gotten here and what pieces are in my control and what can I do to give my child control and empower them and model and encourage in all of those things rather than how can I change this behavior? Because how can I change my kid is the quickest route to, how can I lose my kid?
Wendy:
Yes.
Destini:
It’s s at that age. Yeah, for sure. They’re like, nah, it’s too late. It’s too late. That’s
Wendy:
How they feel. All of ’em are masters at getting through the cracks. Yeah,
Destini:
Exactly. It’s
Wendy:
Crazy. And which is butcher was my story, right? Like my, I wasn’t on that type of a leash, but like I knew exactly how to get around every fricking like everything. Cuz there, because the connection was missing, the trust was missing. Like so yeah. It’s just, but that’s so
Destini:
Unsafe. It’s so unsafe. Cause then you’re experiencing things and because you’re, you’re on this leash and you’re doing things under the radar, you’re not gonna go to your parents when you’re drunk and don’t know where you’re at.
Wendy:
Hell no. Yeah. Yeah. That’s why it’s, it is, it’s such a beaut. Like if you can just, even if like, if you’re listening and you’re realizing that crap amusing fences and it feels late for you, like just know that it really is never too late. Like it’s rocky and it’s messy to turn the ship around, but it’s, it is just so possible. So let, let’s, let’s jump into like the fact that when you have fences as your boundaries, it really allows your children to learn the life skills. And one of my favorite fricking videos you’ve ever done again, you just like, looks like you just throw on your freaking phone and you’re like, let’s just chat about this. And you’re eating cashews and you’re like, why? Why do we expect our kids freaking sit still?
We can’t sit still. You’re like, why do we expect our kids to respond? We can’t respond. We’re yelling at people on traffic. They they’re watching you. They see you. And it’s like, I, I was in like tears watching that just cracking up. Oh my gosh. I just love how much it’s so nonsensical.
Destini:
It’s so,
Wendy:
But yeah, so this idea, right, of like looking at our kids and realizing that we cannot expect them to build life skills if we haven’t built the life skill and are modeling the life skill, right? So just teaching them that when you’re within the fences, like you’re able to build life skills and we’re gonna be there to support you, but we’re also gonna be beside you to learn the same thing. Right? Yeah. Like, so talk to us a little, just a little bit about the, like the how life skills get developed when you have a parent who like is with you, like not denying that they, they’re not like they’re right beside you. And just the idea of the fence being safety on it,
Destini:
It’s so layered. I think I wanna start by saying that what makes that a challenge is the idea that we have to be perfect. And I think that that comes from us feeling like our kids are extensions of us and that they represent us. And so how they behave says something about who we are as people, right? And we have to be these all knowing all wise, have it together parents, otherwise our kids aren’t gonna trust us and they’re not gonna listen to us and X, y, and Z. And so we come off like, we have all these things figured out and blah, blah, blah. And the reality of the situation is, like I said in the video, there’s things we need to work on or accept about ourselves. And the further we move from those truths, the harder it is to accept those things in our kids when we see them.
Yes. It’s like they’re holding up a mirror, they’re showing you the things that are a part of the environment. And for me, sometimes it’s like, okay, well I just need to work on this and I need to be honest about this and have grace like, okay Ken, like we gotta make up our bed. I know mine’s not made right now, I’m gonna go make it, but like we need, let’s make our beds as opposed to like, what are you, or not even something so specific, but if for instance, I’m asking her to do something right this second, you need to go clean your room, you need to hurry up, blah, blah, blah. But then she sees me not having that same level of urgency on other things. It’s like, maybe I just need to accept that that’s not who I am. Like a part of it is just, just accept yourself.
Either change the things that’s typically the narratives and I mean, to go there, yes, there’s self-help and get better and da da da. But so much of the things that we struggle with with our kids and we struggle to let them be seen is because we struggle to accept like who we are and we struggle to celebrate who we are. And we put so much like pressure on being different. Why? Because we had leashes and we didn’t get to explore and figure out who we were. And we’re doing the same thing to our kids. So I feel like the more that I’m able to like just accept myself, accept where I’m at, and grow from a place of empowerment and not shame, I don’t have to, I don’t have to do that to, to my kid.
Like I could just, like you said, walk alongside her. Like we are two dope individuals that are learning to be more disciplined. Like we’re not lazy, we’re amazing, and there’s a habit that we wanna cultivate so that we can have more fun within this fence so that the, the life within this fence can be easier, but there’s nothing wrong with us. And when you can detach your child’s behavior from who they are, the same way you should be able to detach your behavior from who you are, it’s a lot easier to work on or accept the behavior. You, you get what I’m saying?
Wendy:
Dang heck. Yeah. I get what you’re saying. So good. Yes. The the quote, oh my gosh, mic drop grow from a place of empowerment versus shame. Yeah. That’s like, that is everything because we all, like, once we realize that we’re doing stuff, like, we’re like, ugh. You know what, like a lot of times you don’t wanna stay there, right? Like, I mean there’s, it’s beautiful. That’s exactly what we teach here, right? Inside of our freedom, we have a weekend workshop called Freedom to Be where I always tell people like, the more you learn to love yourself, the easier it is gonna be. Love your kids. Like the harder you are on your self, the harder you are on your kids. But so many of us don’t wanna stay there, right? Like, just accept who you are, right?
Like it, it’s good to do that. But we want, we do wanna change, especially those of us who love, we develop this joy and this journey of personal liberation and growth and evolving and, and doing things different. But to do it from a place of empowerment versus shame is so freaking huge. And just realizing we’re not right next to our kids. Like this teenage like time with my daughter and like, she’s right in the pit of like so many kids like just fall into this. Like, if you wanna have fun, like you drink alcohol, you smoke a little weed, like vaping, like has been presented to the teenage market as like, it drives me insane. Like they took tobacco, which was already gnarly and then made it cherry and bubble gun and market it to these kids.
And they’re like, and, and then the children like have been trained on these devices to not have any, like, especially your cashew video, we all have, right? Like we don’t know what boredom is. Like we can’t wait in line for a bathroom
Destini:
At Starbucks
Wendy:
without, so like, it’s for the teens, it’s like just vape. Like you just vape a little, you get that little lift. So, but just watching like my daughter in her world developing this life skill of like doing things different and like being able to have fun as a 15 year old precious like hu human body without feeling like you need some level of intoxication, right? Like that’s just a life skill that kids Yeah. In many places developed. But the crazy thing is, is this last month I realized that after 30 years of like using like toxins, like alcohol was like my best friend, like chardonnay was my best friend on like hard night Friday night. So I just decided, you know what girl, like I feel like I cannot model to you or expect you to be able to go out and have fun and be a little different and not always need something.
And so I was like, you know what? I’m gonna take a break from this for a while because I am learning the life skill. Yeah. Of just being like in a clean body and not needing a glass of chardonnay at five o’clock on a Friday to get my freaking headache away. Like, I’m like, dang. But if I didn’t have this lens, I wouldn’t have never accepted the invitation to see that. I’m not like, I expect her to be able to do this in a world where everywhere you go, like it’s, that’s an exaggeration, but it sure feels like everywhere you go, like this is what everyone’s doing and to be like, you know what, I’m good. And so that’s just been so cool to, to be able to do that with her now and just grow in it, right? Like the uncomfortableness of it, like the learning, like the detox, like all the things.
So
Destini:
I love it. The your kids are going to show you all the areas that you need to either grow, heal, or accept. And so yeah, I I love that, that you took it in that way and that you took that as opportunity to grow. Because parenting really is one of the, the most transformative experiences that you can have. So I love that for you.
Wendy:
It really is if you accept it, right? Like if you accept it.
Destini:
If, if you accept it, if you’re conscious, you accept it. That’s the hard part.
Wendy:
Yes. If you’re conscious, I love it. All right. And so our last point here is we have that building fences instead of using leashes builds connection with kids who know the fences are built to help them. Not just because I said so, right? So I feel like we kind of touched on that, but just helping kids understand that like this is set up to give you more peace, joy, empowerment in your own life. Like by creating this fence, you’re actually gonna be blessed by it. You’re gonna be stoked, right? Like our, our daughter, speaking of like the, the app thing that you’re working with, your 10 year old, we had our daughter wait till we did like the wait till eighth pledge for for an iPhone. And she waited till high school and she was like the one out of 10 kids, like nine out of 10 kids had the iPhone in their hand, social media by really 8, 9, 9 years old here in southern California.
But just the connection that formed over those years during those tearful conversations of like, oh, everybody has this. Like, there was such deep connection and it really did build like her deep understanding of the downfalls that she witnessed her friends unfortunately having over those years. But like maybe you just put your spin on that Destini of like the building connection side of having fences be your thing, not leashes.
Destini:
Yeah. Well the thing about a fence is it’s still a little restrictive in a way. And so they’re still gonna be upset, they’re still gonna be frustrated and sad. And those are sometimes like the most powerful moments, like I said at the beginning of this, is that it’s not always about the experience, it’s about how your caregivers help you reconcile that experience and how they validate your experience. And so there are times when my daughter hates the fence and she thinks it’s the worst. And the more you validate how they’re feeling, the less it becomes about you, the less it becomes like you’re so mean.
I used to hear that all the time when we were transitioning into waking up every morning to school. You’re so mean, you don’t care about me. This is the worst. I hate this, I hate that. All of that. And now, I mean it’s still only been two years, so there’s still irritation, there’s still attitude, there’s still eye rolls, but it’s just like, I don’t wanna get up, I don’t wanna go to school. Like it’s very much, it’s no longer focused on me against you. It’s like it’s us like, okay mom, can you help me do this? Can you help me do that? Or do you know where this is? Or Oh God, can I have five more minutes? Like she’s, even though it’s like, just do it, she’s problem solving now. Like, yes, she’s problem solving. Now I, I can’t do this or I can do that. But you’re focused on solving the problem where before it was like, you’re focused on you hate me, you don’t like me.
And the reason that we got to that point, I think was because of compassion, speaking her love language, giving her hugs when she was upset about the boundary. Understanding like, why do you feel this way? And another really important piece of this that I think that sometimes is assumed that is not presidential parenting is like still empowering them to do the thing. Like, and showing them like, I believe that you can, I told you she’s homesick today. And she’s like, I, I can’t be around people cuz I have germs sick. She’s not like, eh, like she’s, I still play Roblox sick. So I’m like, well you’re gonna work on a rough draft or something.
And she just got so upset and she, she was working on it. She was like, I don’t wanna do this, I hate this, blah blah blah. And everything in me of course is like, oh my God. Like I just wanna make her do it right. And I said to her, come here. And I grabbed her and she sat on my lap. She’s 10, she still says on my lap. And I was just like, I’m like, I know this really, really sucks. I’m right here. And we had this conversation before you didn’t go to school that there were gonna be things that are gonna get done. Right? That’s the compassion piece. And then the empowerment piece, I said this to her, I was like, look, this is a rough draft girl, okay, the rough draft is here. Your capabilities are through the roof. So I’m gonna go, I gotta go work. I know you’re gonna be able to do this.
Don’t take it too serious because you’re making it bigger than it is. You’re amazing. You can do this. Right? And she’s like, nice. Yeah, yeah. Right. It’s like, it’s compassion and validation at the same time. Girl, stop playing with me. You like, I see you, you need to see it in yourself. Get it done. Hurry up so you can go watch tv. Yes, yes. Both. And it’s not coddling, it’s, it’s it’s, I see your feelings and I see your capabilities at the same time.
Wendy:
Dang. Yes. And I love how you’ve, like, you’ve seen you teach a few times and just the the phrase of like, how can I support you to get this done instead of like, just get it done. But like those bringing in those questions of like, how can I support you to get this done? Or what do you need right now? You know, like, I’m not gonna do it for you and I’m here with you. Like you’re not alone. Like you make sense to me. And then I’ve seen you share too quite a bit on like, just realizing when you’re using a lot of demands, change it to request. Request, right. Which is like so good. And people freak out cuz they’re like, I tried that. I I asked my kid, will you put on your shoes? And they were like, no, but it’s, it’s different, right?
Like the way you teach it is different. You’re,
Destini:
Well, well I will say this though, there really is no right or wrong tool. Like if I suggest a tool, it’s like, it’s cuz that’s what worked this morning. Like it’s, there’s no golden tool. It’s like, oh, I figured out my kids are listening to everything I do. That’s the difference I think between maybe the idea of gentle parenting and conscious parenting. Gentle parenting is very much like tools. Try this, try this, try that, try that. Conscious parenting is like, okay, this tool’s not working. What’s going on with my kid? Why am I even so angry about this? Am I angry because a boundary is being overstepped? Or am I angry because of my ego? Am I angry cuz I’m tired? Where’s this coming from? What need do I need to meet?
Like conscious is literally that looking beneath the surface of the situation so that you can serve the moment in the best way possible. And it is about emotional intelligence. I know what I need, I know what you need. Yeah, let’s work together to figure it out. And so I think that’s really important because we have so many parenting gurus and books and tips and da, da da and at the end of the day, there’s no right tip. And something that would work beautifully in my house today, may not work in your house today, may not work in my house tomorrow. But ultimately, if you’re showing up every day and the goal and the intention is to connect with the kid that’s right in front of you today, in this moment, I’m not gonna say you can’t get it wrong. No, I am gonna say, you can’t get it wrong.
You can’t get it wrong, you, you can’t get it wrong. There’s it, it takes right and wrong out of it because then at that moment it’s like I’m present with whatever actually happened. And that’s the best you can freaking do.
Wendy:
Ugh, that’s so good. Because when you’re in that zone of like consciousness, you’re looking within for yourself, you’re looking within for them. Like you’re not feeding into the bullshit stories, right. That keep you out of your creative brain. So like your creative brain has to stay there. It has like, it has to be present in order to like come up with the bob and weave. Like, all right, this isn’t, yeah, it was awesome. This is a great example to end cuz I was preparing for the, your interview last night, freaking out trying to just be like, it’s cool, it’s cool. We’ve got Destini on the show. It’s totally cool, just chill. But I was watching some stuff and I was like, Ooh, Terrin didn’t wanna put away his, his pack. He got home from sixth grade camp on Friday and it’s fricking Tuesday night, still hasn’t unpacked, you know, duffle bags in the middle of the, the store or in the middle of the living room.
And so I tried that, right? I was like, oh love, I’m gonna do some Destini Ann-ing here, you know? And I’m like, Hey, you know, he’s like, no, no, no. We’d been asking him every night, right? He hasn’t done it. And it’s so me by the way, I freaking unpack. It takes me like a week to unpack. Always, right? Same. But we kept asking, asking him. So finally last night, he’s like, no, please, I just wanna watch my little show for a while. And instead of moving like, you know, daddy was definitely, we both were like, come on dude. Like come on. And then I Destini Ann-ed it and was like, Hey, what, you know, what do you, I stopped what I was cooking in the kitchen came over, how can I support you? Point is he wasn’t really having it. He did not say yes to it, but I did exactly what you said. I stayed present with him, looked in his eyes, I stayed connected, right?
What’s going on here? What’s going on there? And finally I ended up bending with parameters because that’s what felt right for me in the moment. He wanted to do it that night and he was like, mama, I promise it’s gonna happen tonight. And in that moment I was like, cool, I’m gonna make the decision to bend with parameters and I feel good about it. Right? Yeah. But like if I would’ve been in my freak out brain, the amygdala that was like, dude, this kid is a spoiled brat. He never cleans up. Like the house is a wreck. Like, but the hell’s wrong with him. He’s my easygoing kid. He’s not supposed to be pushing back like this, although he’s turning 13 soon. Makes sense, right? He’s in a power surge like beautiful. He is, this is developmentally, yay. He actually is supposed to be pushing back. But that freak out brain wasn’t present in that moment.
And I just, we handled it and then I was like, cool. It didn’t even get done, but I still felt so good about it. Went back into the kitchen and then that night he did, he did unpack it, you know? So it happened. But that was like, that was just like, since it just happened last night, I love it that there’s no wrong, right? Like even if worst case, the task doesn’t get done in that moment, when you stay in that creative brain, it’ll get done. You just gotta be a little flexible sometimes and just be focused on teaching the life skill over the, like forcing them to comply in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Alright, well, Destini, please let our listeners know where they can find you, where all the things are.
We’ll make sure we put all these videos that I have mentioned. We’ll put the show notes to those particular ones. The cashew, the whatever other one I mentioned. There’s, there’s, so I’ll put my favorite Destini videos. Cool. In the show notes. We’ll make sure we have your book listed on our website. We have an extensive shop page with all of our favorite books and all the things. But tell everyone where they can find you and where they can start learning from you today.
Destini:
Thank you. I’m on Instagram and TikTok both Destin.Ann, And all my resources are at Destiniann.com.
Wendy:
Awesome. All right, girl. Thanks so much for being here. We really just feel very honored to have you on our show. I cannot wait for listeners to get this into their ears, but thanks so much for everything you do to encourage and support families and just pour light into the world.
Destini:
Thank you so much. This was wonderful.
For links and more info about everything we talked about in today’s episode, head to fresh start family online.com/171.
Stella:
For more information, go to freshstartfamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening, families, have a great day.
