On this episode of The Fresh Start Family Show, Wendy and Terry are joined by their dear friend and mentor Pam Dunn. Pam is an author and creator of Your Infinite Life Training & Coaching Company & someone who has joined Wendy and Terry on the show many times because she is brilliant at getting to the root behind our protection (closed) behaviors.
Today, they are tackling the topic of reactive patterns we have as parents, and what we can do about them.
You’ll end this episode feeling empowered to create positive change in your heart & home and be the type of firm kind leader you want to be as a parent!
Download the cheat sheet from this episode & watch the below videos for additional support & inspiration!
4 Steps to Ending Reactive Patterns
1 . Get Rid of Shame
2. Resolve & Heal from Trauma
3. Ditch the Blame
4. Develop Holding Space Muscles
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Special Thanks to Tonies for their continued support of the Fresh Start Family Show!
Episode Highlights:
- We often get stuck in a destructive pattern and model it to our kids
- Having an open and compassionate look at ourselves will influence change in our kids’ misbehaviors
- We have a reason for closing down, but we often use that reason to behave in a way that is ineffective or that leads us to feel badly about ourselves
- The trigger is the thing we want to address (not the behavior that triggered you)
- Blaming ourselves is still blame, but it is not actually taking responsibility
- The opposite of shaming ourselves is not euphoric acceptance. Aim for neutral awareness
- Shame is attaching who we are to our mistakes / shortcomings
- When we were younger, the only thing we controlled was our feelings, so we thought the feeling was the problem and tried to protect ourselves from it
- Blame is a symptom – it isn’t the problem. It isn’t good or bad, right nor wrong
- Learn how to hold space and listen to others past the place of discomfort
Resources Mentioned:
Don’t miss Pam’s previous episodes on the FSF Show:
- Ep. 4. Influencing Skills
- Ep. 11. Self Reliance Skills
- Ep. 52. The Key To Empathy: Holding Space For Ourselves, Others & The World
- Ep. 99. Emotional Triggers: When Kids Push our Buttons
- Ep. 135. How to Get What You Want (Without Complaining)
- Ep. 153. The Most important Skill to Build in the New Year : Emotional Literacy
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Be sure to download the ‘Ending Knee Jerk Reactions’ Cheatsheet that goes along with this episode!
Not able to listen or want to read along with us?
Here is the episode transcript!
This episode of the Fresh Start Family Show is brought to you by our quick start learning bundle, how to build a compassionate firm and kind discipline toolkit that works with kids of all ages. Head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/discipline to grab your quickstart bundle so you can get going today on building up a strong, compassionate discipline toolkit in your home.
Wendy:
Hello listeners and welcome. I’m so happy you’re here for a new episode. I’m your host, Wendy Snyder positive parenting educator and family life coach. And today on the show we have our dear friend, Pam Dunn, owner and founder of Your Infinite Life, which is a life coaching and training organization that we work very closely with here at Fresh Start Family.
And we just love having Pam on the show. She is a dear friend and mentor of ours, and today is a special day because we are kicking off our third season of the Fresh Start Family Show. And so we have just the most fantastic episodes that we’ve recorded that we will be bringing to you in this new season that we’re just excited to get into your hands to bless you, encourage you, inspire you. But we wanted to kick off this new season with this episode all around how we can end Reactive parent patterns as parents. And we’re gonna specifically cover four steps today that both Pam and I have seen, you know, trans just transform families when parents openheartedly and humbly step into learning where they realize they may have some reactive patterns.
And as Pam and Terry And I discuss in this episode. Terry’s with us for this one, by the way, which is so great. We love it when Terry’s with us. But you’ll hear us discuss different types of reactive, patterns. Some, some of us are yellers, some of us are withdrawals, right? Like there’s totally, you know, across, there’s, there’s a lot of different reactive patterns that you may have. But the key word is patterns. And a lot of times these patterns keep us stuck in our parenting walk and prevent us from getting the results that we want with the very effective psychology backed strategies that you will learn in any program that you do. Whether it’s the Fresh Start Experience or another conscious parenting or gentle parenting or positive parenting program.
All of the connection based firm and kind strategies that this type of work teaches, those strategies are only effective when you’re able to, you know, really handle situations with that calm confidence and firm kindness without the reactive close down or protection type of behaviors. And so we’re gonna explain to you more what that looks like and how if you, you know, want better results in your home with the strategies that you learn, it’s just a great idea to start kind of peeling back the layers of the onion, so to speak. Or I like to refer to them as an artichoke. I always think the deeper personal development work we do here at Fresh Start Family, so we have obviously all of our positive parenting strategies that we teach in our programs, but then we do have that deeper life coaching side of our work where, you know, we start to peel back those layers of the artichoke to really liberate yourself and get to like the core of who you truly are.
And so when I make the artichoke analogy, I like to think of it like this, you know, like we all are born with like just such a beautiful soul. And I, truly believe at the heart of every human being is a loving, kind, respectful, patient, courageous, brave, human soul, right? And yes, there are are course things that you know, that we’re born with that are gonna cause us to go in directions that aren’t always the best for ourselves or humanity. And that’s means we’re human, right? Like we all make mistakes. Or if you happen to be a family of Christian faith, right?
The idea of sin, like we all fall, fall short of the glory of God, right? Yes, we’re human, we’re not perfect. There’s always gonna be those components of us. But really we are just born these beautiful souls and over time life just happens and it causes us to develop these layers, right? Like they’re kind of like the hardened calluses, so to speak, right? Or like this shell, this outer shell that kind of builds around the core of who we truly are in our like finest moments, let’s say. But those add up over time and they start to just like build and build and build. And soon you become an artichoke.
Then you have these very hard layers that prevent you from operating from your truest self. Again, firm, kind, loving, compassionate, gentle, brave, courageous, all these types of things. And sometimes that outer shell is spiky and it can hurt people, right? Like if you think of the tips of an artichoke, they are spiky and they can hurt people if you’re not careful. And so in this work, this deeper kind of life coaching side of the work that we do here at Fresh Start Family inside of the Fresh Start Experience, and also in our deeper Life coaching weekend courses, which you’ll hear us talk about in this episode called Freedom to Be is our main one.
But we start to peel back those layers and then it turns into self liberation work. You are really freeing yourself from these calluses so to speak, that you’ve developed over time. Again, a lot of, a lot of it is just based on what happened to you when you were little, based on, you know, a lot of times the way you were raised, the things that were said to you, the things that were spoken over you, the the amount of pain or humiliation that was used to air quotes teach you lessons, right? Like we all have different experiences and we all developed these outer layers of this shell, so to speak. So personal development work is when you really start to go a little bit deeper and you start to ask yourself like, what are my patterns?
How am I contributing to the dance in my home? Especially when it comes to my kids, especially when it comes to my strong-willed kids, right? Like if it is a pattern where we’re always fighting or I’m always like, you know, bickering with my spouse about this, or we’re constantly, I’m constantly feeling disempowered, or I constantly withdraw, whatever it may be. Like, what is it that is causing me to have such strong reactions? What is it? What is causing me to feel so unsteady inside of my body, right? And you start to look within versus looking like outside of yourself. Because a lot of people when they start this work, they wanna focus on kids, which makes sense, right?
People come to me and they’re like, Wendy, please make my strong-willed child just put on their shoes, eat their vegetables, and get in the freaking car when it’s time to go to church or school, right? And I’m like, yes, I can help you. I have strategies all day long that are gonna change your life. And pretty soon do you start working with me, you are gonna also fall in love with doing what we call the U-turn and really starting to look at yourself and the patterns that you’re presenting, whether it’s in your home, in your marriage, in your career, and that becomes a very empowering process where you will find joy in discovering the parts and the patterns that you’re operating out of that no longer are serving you, and that are actually keeping you stuck in cycles of reactivity and disempowerment.
So that’s what we’re talking about today. When we refer to, you know, how do we end these reactive patterns as parents, again, the parents who are open and willing to like look at this and learn more about what this looks like. They are the ones who we see get the most magnificent, radical, beautiful results in our program. Inside the Fresh Start Experience, our full support program, we now have a Google Doc of over a thousand pages of success stories from parents who are really like, yes, they’re, they’re getting their kids to cooperate and listen better, which is awesome. They’re getting their kids to do a whole bunch of cool stuff, but they’re also ending painful generational cycles.
They are ending, you know, rhythms and cycles of disconnection or fighting or using fear and force or pain and humiliation to teach their kids life lessons. They are creating cycles of, you know, new, healthy, beautiful rhythms and cycles where there’s strong, peaceful conflict negotiation where there is firm kindness instead of autocratic heavy handed externally controlled methods, right? Like they’re just ditching some of those old patterns and creating new patterns in their home. And it’s just a joy to watch and an honor to serve those families.
So I, hope you enjoy this episode That turned into a pretty long intro, but I just love Pam. We love teaching together. Our Freedom to Be course is October 14th and 21st. It is online, so you can head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/freedomcourse. And we do offer a payment plan also. So make sure you check that out. Alright, you guys, without further ado, enjoy this episode. Thanks for being loyal listeners, and let me know what you think.
Stella:
Well, hey there, I’m Stella. Welcome to my mom and dad’s podcast, the Fresh Start Family Show. We’re so happy you’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean, Jesus, and rock and roll, and believe deeply in the true power of love and kindness. Together we hope to inspire you to expand your heart, learn new tools, and strengthen your family. Enjoy the show.
Wendy:
Well, hey there families, and welcome to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family Show. We are here with our dear friend and owner of Your Infinite Life, Pam Dunn. Welcome to the show again.
Pam:
Well, thanks for having me. It’s always so good to see you two.
Wendy:
So good to see you. Yes, many of our loyal listeners know you well, Pam, you have been on our show time and time again because we just love you so much. We’ll pic, make sure we put in the show notes all the other episodes that you are on. But today we are talking about just ways that we can end reactive patterns as a parent. And so we’re gonna actually talk about four steps to ending reactive patterns as a parent. And we’re really excited to chat about this today. And Terry’s with us today, which is the best.
Terry:
Thanks for tuning in fans
Wendy:
And like we often do with you Pam, we are actually kicking off a new season of the Fresh Start Family Show. We, we took a little break this summer Oh wow. On some OG episodes. We call them original greats that are more of like our teaching episodes. And we aired those this summer as we took a little step back and now we are coming in hot with a new season and we wanted you to be our first guest as we kick off this new season ’cause we just love you.
Pam:
Well, that’s exciting. Thank you. Yes. I feel like there should be some like music like on a talk show or something right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Wendy:
Yeah. I love it. Pam’s the best. Well, I think the reason why I wanted to talk about this subject today is because we have done so much work together over the years. Both, you know, Terry Me, you Together, we now teach together here at Fresh Start Family. We teach the incredible Freedom to Be course, which is actually coming up October 14th and 21st. We’re doing our online version, which is so exciting because parents all over the world can join in no matter where they are. I think it’s still a little hard for our Australian families because they are literally upside down, right?
Like when we have a class from, you know, during the daytime here in America, they are sleeping. So it’s still a little hard for them, but most, most of the world or lots of the world can still join us when we do the online format. So that’s really exciting. But, you know, as far as my experience goes, and, and maybe you would agree Pam, but over the years, like, so as an, as an educator, as a parenting coach, teaching families parenting strategies is obviously so amazing and fulfilling and beautiful and, and life changing, right? When you learn that there are different ways to discipline kids, there are different ways to communicate with kids. There are different ways to motivate and inspire and kind of those hand-me-down parenting tactics or their kind of the old school ways are not what you have to choose to do to parent your children and raise great beautiful human souls.
But I could teach strategies all day long to parents. But really when it comes down to it, it’s, you know, the parents who are able to understand that there’s usually deeper layers of things that are happening within them that are causing reactive patterns. And those reactive patterns are, you know, all different types of reactivity. And today we’re really gonna talk about Reactivity again in all different forms, right? But, but what I see is that when parents kind of have these reactive patterns and there’s a really fast tendency to go in a, in a certain direction, a lot of times they’re, they have a really hard time applying the concept or doing the strategy because there’s just kind of like almost, I don’t know, visual.
It’s like they’re waiting in mud. They’re like, they, they got this like layer of muck that is just kind of like holding them down. And so they’re not able to see or accurately or, you know, really give these strategies a full go is just because these, these patterns are really holding them back. And so then the patterns end up modeling for our kids what we don’t want. And it just becomes a cycle that, you know, is hard to get parents’ results. So what we see in our programs is the parents that get the most magnificent results, whether it’s just like getting your kids to listen better, getting them to sit still at the dinner table, stop hitting their sister, get along, you know, better with their friends or their teacher or whatever it may be.
The parents who really are able to help themselves first and see that there’s some things going on that may be sometimes mirrored in their children. Those are the families that we see just catapult into radical and magnificent results. And it is just such a joy to watch them grow. And So I, we are always trying to spread this beautiful invitation and message that if you really want to see change in your kids, you probably wanna take a really beautiful, compassionate look at what’s going on for you. And from that place, you’re gonna have the most influence on your children. Would you agree?
Pam:
I completely agree. I love everything you said. I was thinking and even wrote down that the, the deeper layers, getting into those deeper layers actually supersede the patterns because they provide space for you internally so you don’t react in that way, you know, or the ways that cause you to justify or feel bad about yourself. So that was, that was really great Wendy.
Wendy:
Mm, it’s amazing. So, well let’s start off by just kind of defining patterns and defining reactivity And, I love. I, it is like, patterns are like, dang it, I keep doing it, but it’s also like really beautiful because when you have patterns you can see that like, oh, it’s probably something going on within me, right? Like, or I always tell my, the parents I work with is like, let’s work on the things that keep showing up in your home, right? So it’s like if every time you get in the car, your kids are fighting and slapping each other, like, well let’s work on a plan for that. Because if it’s showing up all the time, then there are things we can do, right?
I think the, the one-off things are the scariest ’cause you’re like, I wasn’t expecting that. Well the patterns, you’re like, oh yeah, this is, this is an expectation. This happens all the time. That that means I can get ahead of it, figure out what’s underneath of it, and then actually create some change. So the idea that there are patterns in our life and if you’re able to really take a, you know, look at what’s happening for you, not, I mean, yes, we talk so much about our parenting journeys, but even if you zoom out a little bit about the consistencies that you have that are, kids often are really good at making, like come out, but if we really take an honest look, they’re often going on in other areas like our marriage or our career, whatever it may be.
So some of the patterns of reactivity that I have written down, ’cause I think there’s like, for the most part two categories, right? Like I, most of the students I work with, I would say the majority, like 80% are the external. Like they have a tendency to yell, Blame, grab wrist too tight, put fingers and faces, threaten jump to punishment. Like, that was my story. Like that took me a long time to like change my reactive patterns for that kind of stuff. But that was what just came naturally, not naturally. That’s what my knee jerk reaction was that I, I realized it was like hand me down parenting tactics that were just kind of baked into me for years that came out when I was so stressed in those early years as a parent.
But other parents, it feels like it’s probably like 20% of our crew at the inside of our program, they’re more like the withdrawals, like they’re the people pleasers or they might give in really easily. Like they, they might jump to blaming themselves. Whereas like I have a, even after, I mean I’ve been working with you and doing deep personal liberation work for 13 years, And I still have such a deep inclination to Blame. It’s amazing how long it, and it’s continues to be like just my knee jerk reaction that I continuously learn to like laugh at and, and continue to break.
But I think Terry, you’re an example of someone, like you have a tendency to blame yourself so fast. Like you’ll take the blame, not with everybody, but a lot of times, like that’s just your knee-jerk reaction. Would you agree?
Terry:
I mean, it definitely, yeah, it’s, it happens a lot. It’s definitely a pattern, you know, I think, you know, not skipping ahead, but like there, there are some things on our list and our, our our reasons or or steps to ending that I think kind of help me to see where some of that comes from. So yeah, I definitely see it in myself. And you’ve got an interesting, I feel like duo too, like the blaming, but you also have a withdrawal thing too.
Wendy:
Yes, I do. Yeah, I do. But my with withdrawal is more like a pissy, not like a, I can’t, I can’t, different flavor.
Pam:
I can’t do this draw.
Wendy:
Yeah,
Pam:
We have lots of flavors. Yeah, I know. I’m thinking color in a different color. Fonts, it’s like, it’s, it’s bold and it’s red. It’s not like thin and blue. When my kids were little, I was the gritting my teeth while I was talking, you know, So I, I talked really slow and gritting my teeth, you know. But what I was trying to do is withhold how angry I was or upset I was But it. They still got it. They still got how upset it was.
Terry:
Well, so that’s interesting though to point out though, because like in some of these instances you could like in, in unpacking that right there, Pam, it’s like you thought you were doing them a favor by like masking it, But it just became your own flavor of like, they could see right through it. They’re like, absolutely no, this is your reaction. Your reaction is gritting your teeth. They know, just, you’re just as pissed in that reaction that if you actually had let it out and yelled, I mean maybe saved some of the words that you wish you put could have put back in your mouth. But I think they still probably saw that you were just,
Pam:
oh, definitely. They, those were the moments they would say stop yelling And I would be like, I’m not yelling at you, I’m not yelling. You’re yelling. Yeah, yelling. Yeah. I just want let those moms the and dads to hear that one because that’s, I think common too. Yes.
Wendy:
Yeah. So there are all different types of, like, that trigger that like, you know, what we do when we feel triggered, right? Like, and those become patterns over time and then they end up making us feel like very stuck if we kind of go into what many of us do. So the things that we’re gonna talk about today actually include like, well, what are the steps to like, get out of this? What are the steps to like change our reactive patterns? Whether it’s like, you know, the going inward or the going, the going outward side of things. But you know, the reasons why I think we do stay stuck is because A, we often beat ourselves up and have levels of shame, which get in the way.
Two, we often have like unhealed trauma three, we have blame habits like I do. And then number four, undeveloped holding space muscles. So today we’re just gonna talk a little bit about how can, you know, why do we wanna stop beating ourselves up and like identify where shame is present. Why do we want to find places and resources to like heal any unresolved trauma? Why do we wanna like switch out of these blame patterns? Not that we’re ever gonna be perfect, I’m still not perfect. And then also, why do we wanna learn to hold space and develop that skillset to like be able to have those tough situations not like trigger us into such knee-jerk reactions.
So will you start by just reviewing, you know, there’s a lot of people who have never heard us talk about this subject, and then there’s, you know, people who have heard us talk about it. But will you review for us again, Pam the concept of these open and closed behaviors and kind of the reason why we have these knee-jerk things that we do that often don’t end up getting us the results that we want, right? Like they don’t influence the kids like we want them to, like with sustainable long-term results, or they don’t, we, they don’t influence our spouse the way that we wish they were. Like sometimes they’ll, these kneejerk reactions or these patterns or reactivity, like sometimes they end up annoying our spouse more when we’re thinking that like, this kneejerk reaction is gonna actually help us get our way in like some twisted way.
But maybe could you go, like, tell us a little bit more about the idea of open and closed behaviors?
Pam:
Yeah, I think that, you know, I wanna start off by saying, I, I don’t think there’s anybody that’s gonna be listening that’s wakes up in, in the morning and says, can’t wait to yell at my kids today. Yeah. You know, or I can’t wait to have a reaction with my kids today. We most, most people wake up and have an intention that says something, you know, that I’m going to teach my kids how to be responsible today and, you know, and we’re gonna get to school on time or work on time. So it, so that’s really our, our primary intention. We have good intentions, but our, our reaction or what we react to helps us recognize where we close down.
And we always have a reason for closing down, but we often use the reason to keep behaving in a way that is ineffective or that makes us feel bad about ourselves. So I. So in, you know, we spend time in the course just really diving into how to walk yourself through that. But I think the, what I’ll say just quickly is that if everybody even just now thinks about a time when they reacted in a way that they wished they would’ve reacted different, what what you wanna recognize right then is your behavior is because of the trigger inside of you that already exists.
Not because of, not necessarily because of what happened outside of you.
Pausing quickly to chat for a hot sec openly and honestly about what your discipline toolkit looks like in your home right now, if you’re anything like most parents, you’re relying on the hand-me-down set. You inherited timeouts, spankings, threatenings of spankings taking iPads away, 3, 2, 1, countdowns, groundings, taking away toys, e-bikes, iPhones, any or all of those kind of tactics that create a total relationship strain. And don’t even work long-term to end your child’s misbehavior for good. Meaning you might spank your child or send them to timeout today for being air quotes mean to their sister or disrespecting you.
But then three days from now, they’re repeating the same behaviors which causes you to flip your lid because you know, air quotes they know better. I wanna help you learn a new way so you can end the vicious cycle that’s keeping you stuck as a parent and causing you to feel super frustrated that air quotes nothing is working to get your strong-willed stubborn child to behave better. My team, And I have recently completely refreshed our compassionate discipline quickstart learning bundle to help you learn a new way to teach your kids important life skills. A new way to help your children learn from their mistakes and take responsibility for their actions.
You can just DM me the word shift over on Instagram and I’ll personally send you a message with a link to download this free bundle. I’m going to help you shift out of a punishment mindset and into a compassionate discipline. One where you fully trust that connection based firm and kind discipline tools are all you need to be a strong leader in your home, who holds your kids responsible when they misbehave, but does it in a way where they are learning the vital life skills they are missing when they mess up. So again, just dmm me the word shift on Insta. I’m at Fresh Start Wendy, or you can head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/discipline to grab your bundle.
Now, I’m so excited for you to shift out of feeling guilty and shameful when you lay your head on your pillow at night and shift into fully feeling confident and proud of the way you handled yourself as a parent, even when you are wildly triggered and upset about the mistake your child made.
Okay, I’m so excited for you to dive into this free resource. I’ll see you in my dms and inside the free discipline bundle.
Pam:
That was the trigger, but that trigger lives inside of you and that’s the place that you really wanna, you know, as Tar Brock says, do the U-turn and come back to yourself when you know, as soon as you can and figure out what is that trigger about what’s the reason I close down and behave this?
Wendy:
And listeners, we have a whole episode we did on triggers, which I thought was one of my favorite episodes we’ve, we’ve ever recorded together. I referenced the Christmas card story so many times with my own students. Remember when I like snapped about you criticizing my Christmas card protocol?
Terry:
Which time?
Wendy:
Which time? Oh my gosh. Yeah. That was, that was a good story for me to learn. And like, I definitely took some steps forward with realizing like,
Pam:
Oh,
Wendy:
This is what’s going on here. Like, this is what’s happening, right? Like, I feel like every year that I’m in this work a little bit more, I take a little bit more steps forward to like, oh, okay, I see, I see what’s actually going on here. And and what’s so wild is that I think staying in the, like stuckness or the patterns before we learn these different ways, like it really like causes us, would you agree to feel like it, it’s easy to like feel helpless or like become like this victim mindset of like, nothing I do works. I can’t get what I want.
No one listens to me, my kids won’t, you know, don’t respect me, like nothing I do is working. Or, and then from there it seems to like the frustration and the irritation and the angst can like build so much in a, in a side of us when we have kind of that victim mindset happening. Would you agree, Pam? That seems to be a result of having these behaviors go on, which we’re gonna talk to you a little bit more about here in a second. But when they’re present, beating yourself up unhealed trauma, you’re blaming people all the time and you’re like not able to hold space at all. It just kind of like eats away at your soul and like, you just end up feeling like you don’t have any power.
Would you agree?
Pam:
Yes. And the way that you try and get power in those moments is to justify your behavior, which just exacerbates everything you just said, beating yourself up. Unh. The unhealed trauma, the blame, and then the lack of holding space. So it, so the justification, even though it feels real, it’s just not true. The justification does not help you feel better about yourself. It helps you feel powerful in the moment and only then.
Wendy:
Yeah, it drives people around you insane, right? Like, and so it’s like a tactical example is like, you know, if, if you’ve yelled at your kids and, and then you say to them, the reason why I yell is because you won’t listen to me unless I won’t yell. Yeah. Like it sure seems very, very logical. Yeah. That, that makes so much sense to, to normal folk, right? Before you start diving into like how like it’s actually not the truth. It’s not the choice that, that they are the reason why you have to yell or that you had to yell But, it sure seems like in the, in the moment that makes sense and they’re the reason why.
Pam:
Yeah. And they are doing it on purpose. I think that’s the other thing we hear. But but I think that’s just a good place to stop and say that when you yell, you know, whatever you think causes you to yell, there’s, there’s a story there, there’s something going on for you that’s underneath whatever that trigger is. Yeah.
Wendy:
And, I wanna make sure like
Pam:
It deserves, and wants your attention by the way,
Wendy:
Right? And it’s like, and it can go the other way too, right? It’s not always those like aggressive tendencies. So it’s like, for someone who becomes a people pleaser, like they’re gonna justify why they do that in their own right. Like, because like, you know, whether it’s family members or a boss or someone else, like you have to submit so to speak or not speak your mind because like a, a spouse or whatever else, like won’t listen to you or whatever it may be, right? But there’s a lot of justification that can happen no matter like what the behavior is, right? Because we
Pam:
Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wendy:
Well let’s get into this first. Like when and when we’re spinning, like when we’re spinning it and really looking at, okay, if we’re gonna talk about steps to get away from once we’ve identified like, oh, there’s some patterns going on. It’s not just because it’s not just in the, like maybe you have a toddler that then they go away to elementary school and, and now they’re in like second grade and you’re like, well, I don’t have a toddler anymore, but I still have these patterns like it’s, I can no longer blame the three major, right? Like, oh, it’s a pattern. It’s been happening for years and years and years, but you’ve identified the patterns. You realize that like you have some behaviors that you know, you wish like were different, you wish she could change.
Or there’s mo like times when you’re like, oh, I wish that wouldn’t have happened that way, or I wish I would’ve spoken up, or I wish I would’ve been able to calmly say, you know, I’m not okay with that. Versus like, what the hell is wrong with you? Whatever it may be. But number one we have on our list is just learning to like be more compassionate with yourself and stop beating yourself up. And let’s talk about that for a minute, because I remember one of those powerful things I learned so early on with you guys was, and as, as teachers and mentors of mine was like, the more you beat yourself up, the more you’re gonna beat your kids up. So if you’re really hard on your kids about something or something they do really bugs you, or maybe I would even add Pam, something they do really worries you, then there’s a good chance you’re having the same reflection about yourself and your own behaviors.
Could you speak about that a little bit?
Pam:
Yeah. I think that I first, you know, wanna say that blaming yourself is still blame. So if you’re trying to move away from blame, blaming yourself is not a way to take responsibility. A lot of us have been taught to do that though, or you know, and, and maybe even invert inadvertently conditioned that, you know, all you have to do is say, I’m sorry I was wrong to your parent. And they would, they would leave you alone. You know about that.
Wendy:
Yeah. I feel bad about what you did,
Pam:
Right? Of remorse.
Wendy:
Yeah. Yeah.
Pam:
So we’ve been conditioned to believe that blaming ourself is a way to take responsibility. And I think the first thing you have to remind yourself it is not. And once you know that, because if you’re blaming yourself, responsibility is usually important to you. But, but you’re just turning the sword in on, on yourself. And And, I think when you speak self-compassion is absolutely the way through that. But people who blame themselves very quickly, they don’t look at self-compassion from, from its true nature. What they look at is the opposite of beating yourself up.
Pam:
Meaning that I have to be okay with what’s going on. I have to love myself. That’s not really what it’s about. You know, like we bypass so much. So what it really is is to slow down and look at, okay, this is the problem. And I am not the problem. This is the problem and my child is not the problem. But let’s step back and look at what is the problem here. It’s a problem we haven’t learned how to solve yet. It’s not something that we should have solved already.
Wendy:
Oh my gosh, I’m sorry. I have to repeat that and then I wanna hear what you
Pam:
Have to say.
Wendy:
Say it again. It’s not a problem
Pam:
That we should have solved already or should even know how to solve.
Wendy:
It’s just a problem we need to solve.
Pam:
It’s a problem we need to learn about and figure out how to solve.
Wendy:
Yeah. ’cause the beating yourself up looks like, what the hell is wrong with me? I’m such a bad mom. I should know better. Like, I should know how to deal with this. I should know how to do this. Like, and I’ll give an example in a second, but what were you gonna say to
Terry:
Oh, I was just gonna say, I mean, I relate a lot to like, you know, just the beating yourself up and looking back at, you know, your younger self and, and you know, not being very gentle with yourself. So then it creates, you know, fears when you have kids that they’re going to make, you know, similar decisions that you’re gonna be extra critical of because you’ve already made those. And there’s a whole spiral there. But I also, I just liked what you were saying of like removing yourself from the situation. Like, you know, if you’re looking at it now as an adult looking at things, it’s like remove yourself from it and just look at it as there’s something to solve. There’s the, the little person that’s dealing with it and there’s you that can help and come alongside of it.
Like take yourself out of the, like, the equation a little bit. Then, you know, you can look at it from a, a new perspective and, and through a new lens instead of through this like weird like, oh, I’m going to like hate my younger self through this whole thing and if this doesn’t turn out the way that that redeems that person, then I’m gonna be double down and be extra hard on myself or something. You know? I think it just makes it really messy and cloudy. So I liked what you, you were saying about removing yourself from it. Yeah. It’s a way to get out of the paradigm, you know? ’cause you’re in that, that cycle, that paradigm.
Wendy:
Well, and the idea of the neutral stance versus having to be positive. So the op, I love that. The opposite of not beating yourself up is not like Awesome mom.
Amazing. You know, it’s just more like, oh, okay, So I yelled today. You know? Or like, I was thinking about my one one pattern that right now we, we have teenagers here. Terrin’s almost 13, Stella is almost 16. And, and like messiness and messes is like a thing right now. Like that’s probably the biggest thing for us is like, how do we work as a team to keep the house clean and get them to do their laundry and clean up the all the things. But I’ve noticed, like, ’cause I think we become pros, right? The deeper you become in this work. And it definitely, when you teach it, you become pros at seeing everything in yourself. And, I feel like I’ve made some strides forward with, when it comes to piles and messes.
Like, let’s just say a year or two ago, I would beat myself up without even really having a lot of awareness. But. it was just like a very fast subtle, like, you suck. Like you are unorganized, you are the worst, you are And I feel like I’ve made a little stride forward with just being like, you got a lot, you got a lot going on. Like it’s, and you helped so much with this. He’s always like, I literally don’t care about your stuff. Like, move along. Who cares? Like, you know, but I’m like, if I can just be like, okay, you have, you have piles there and you have a tendency to, or you look okay, you piled the clothes at the end of the, the thing again, it just then puts you into this mode of like, what do I wanna do about it?
Versus like, what the hell is wrong with me? I can never, and then I go into victim mindset, I can never get ahead of things. I’m so overwhelmed, which is like blame. Blaming the world. It’s like I don’t have enough time. And therefore like, it just, when you take yourself out of it, you’re like, oh look, there’s just, it’s a pile. Do I want the pile there? Or do I not want the pile like tomorrow? Do I wanna make the decision to hang up the clothes or do I wanna make the decision to let the clothes lay there? Right? Or do I wanna go through the mail or do the mail pile? And then when Stella has six towels in her room at once, I am, by developing the life skill of speaking to myself differently in the moment, which is like a very knee jerk reaction thing.
It becomes like a micro all day long. And these like are micro actions, right? And then you walk into the teenager’s room and you’re, you can just be a little bit more neutral about the towels on the floor. Would you agree? Is that like a way to put it into action in like a tactical way?
Pam:
Yeah, I think, I think so. There’s just an addition that you also might need to do or want to do. And that is okay, I see the pro, the problem I see is the top the piles or you know, at the piles at the end of the thing or the towels on the floor. I see that as the problem. But really go on the investigation of what is it about that that makes it a problem for me? And, and so rather than always looking externally, externally, find out why that causes you to get your nervous system to get reved up. Because honestly it’s not gonna be that you’re out of towels.
Wendy:
Right.
Pam:
You know, it’s something Yeah, it’s something. It’s gonna be something else. And it’s not about their, they’re inconsiderate. It’s not about that either. What is it about inconsiderate that causes you to get upset? Yeah, And I think that’s like, I mean, do you see yourself as like this adult with the, you know, this pile of stuff that obviously bugs you and you’re like, well if I could pass on one thing to Stella’s fix this towel thing now and you won’t be where I am at in this, in this pile situation when you’re a grownup, but then you’re like, you know, you’re being hard on your, it’s almost like you’re going back in time trying to like shake your younger self saying like, fix it.
So I won’t have to deal the Yeah. I think what’s important about that, ’cause we’re, we’re on the self-compassion is that to do the u-turn and ask yourself that question, that’s the beginning of self-compassion, that you’re actually getting curious and even gonna listen to yourself about why it bothers you rather than just try and get somebody to stop bothering you.
Wendy:
And, and it’s amazing how Shame is at the root of that for me. So like, with beating myself up. So my inclination when I really think about that is my like most deepest inner thought that it’s like, I always teach my, my parents that I work with. It’s like, hey, we’re not, you know, looking at how you were raised. It’s not about blaming your parents for things. And it is like really helpful sometimes just to like, have compassion with yourself where it came from. I mean the, like, what is wrong with you? Like, the Shame was such an intense use in our house. Like we were, I was just home with my family in the, the summer and we had like a, our neighbor’s little dog come over to meet like their big shepherd and this little dog was like tiny compared to like a, he was like maybe 20 pounds and the shepherd’s like a hundred.
And he was like nipping and kind of being aggressive with the, the big shepherd. And as dog owners we were like, oh gosh, they’ll work it out. But my mom was freaking out and she’s just screaming at this little dog, what is wrong with you? Shame on you? Shame on you And. I was just laughing. I’m like, dang, that is so thick in me. So when we’re talking about these piles and these towels, when you’re asking like, why is this a problem for me? My, it’s just so thick in me to be like, well, it’s like, what the hell is wrong with you? Why can’t you figure out how to keep your house clean and run a business and help people change their lives? Like you’re doing something wrong. Something’s wrong with you, something is wrong with you. Normal people don’t have piles.
Normal people don’t make messes like this. Normal people have it all together, but something is wrong with you. Like that is still to this day, something that I continue to shake. And so real quick, Pam, can you speak to shame versus guilt? Yeah. And then we’ll move on to our second point.
Pam:
Yeah. Which you just did a good example of it that, you know, shame is, I am bad. I am, you know, like, because of what’s going on, I am a bad person. Whereas guilt is, I did something that, that wasn’t good. So it’s, you know, you at, well shame is when we attach who we are to the mistakes that we make or the, you know, short pitfalls or shortcomings that we have.
Wendy:
Do you have any shame thoughts? Terry ever? Like, mine is definitely like, what the hell’s wrong with you? Shame on you. But do you have any that go through your mind? Sometimes it’s my fault, it’s yours. It’s my fault. It’s my fault. I’m guessing for you, well that would be more guilt or Oh yeah,
Terry:
Yeah. I think, I don’t know. Mine comes into like, I mean my, my kind of line of work, I don’t know. I feel like I’ve, I’m just like, I’ve been up for criticism for 25 years. Like And I, when you’re an artist or a creative, you sometimes can’t separate yourself from your work. And so I feel like I’ve taken criticism by so many people, some that I respect, some that I don’t, over and over and over again. And sometimes it sticks to you. Sometimes you’re allowed to like let it, I can let it fall off. But sometimes some of it sticks to you. And I feel like that’s my form of shame is I I did it wrong, or they don’t get me or I don’t get them.
Or maybe I’m just not good enough.
Pam:
Mm. Yeah. That’s that. You know, I, I so appreciate what you’re saying ab as an artist, that you are your work, you know, it’s an extension of you. And, and so the way to self compassion when that sort of criticism comes in is that the reason why you wanna remind yourself that the reason why it bothers you is because you care so much.
Terry:
Yeah. And I’ve even had times where I’m like, well, maybe I should do something I don’t care so much about, so that I’m not as, I don’t put myself my heart out there so much. You know? Yeah. It’s a real thing.
Pam:
Yeah. I just, I think it’s beautiful that you haven’t toughened up enough that it doesn’t bother you though.
Terry:
Oh, well thank you. Yeah, no,
Wendy:
I agree. I agree. I think, yeah. Yeah. ’cause you could go just so what, but like every single campaign, so Terry’s a creative by day listeners in case you’re new around here, but like, every single
Terry:
Creative by day, dancer by night. Yeah.
Pam:
Dancer Terry by night I, by day sorry, I I couldn’t help.
Wendy:
I know, right? It’s like on side. What does he,
Terry:
What does he do at night? Yeah. You
Wendy:
Team creative.
Pam:
Tired. He stall. Yeah. Yeah. It’s awesome. Sorry, skip it.
Wendy:
You are multifaceted. You’re multifaceted. Now I’m gonna forget what I was gonna say. Thanks a lot babe.
Terry:
It was worth it. Your fault. I’m blaming you. No, it was worth it. You
Wendy:
No, but yeah. Yeah. So good. All right, well that’s, it’s good. We’ll move along.
Terry:
You were saying campaigns and stuff.
Wendy:
Oh yeah, yeah. You really do. Like, you just put so much into it and they’re, that’s why you create such badass art and work and these athletes that you work with and like, everything is so much care. So that’s beautiful Pam. Okay, well, talk to us. So the next step if we wanna end reactive patterns as a parent is to heal from unresolved trauma. So talk to us a little bit about that. We’ve had a few episodes now about different takes on trauma, but kind of what is, what is your take on that Pam?
Pam:
Well, I think my favorite quote around trauma is a Gabor Maté quote who is just excellent in this field. And he says that trauma is not what happens to us. Trauma is what happens inside of us as a result of what happens to us. And so that’s the place where if you have a really stubborn pattern, either the way you react or what you react to by stubborn, I mean that no matter how hard you try or think about it or strategize, it just won’t go away. I think that that is a, a good indication that first of all, you wanna get some assistance, you know, the class is your course coaching, those types of things, because that is most what’s probably happening is it’s most likely a trauma response, and because it’s a tender place inside of you, you just need some, you know, and you’re protecting yourself through this trauma response.
You need some assistance to, you know, know how to get underneath that and figure out what that is.
Wendy:
So good. Yeah, that’s a great way to look at it. And man, we do so much of that inside of freedom to be, we do so much of it inside of the Fresh Start Experience too. But really like that is, that weekend that we do together is such a, such a safe place to like, just allow yourself the time to go deeper, right? Like, we’re just so busy and we’re always moving and there’s so much to take care of. And when you just sit still for a little bit in like a super safe place and like think about what’s happening inside of your heart and your mind and your soul, like, it’s just amazing what you can unlock and learning just to like feel your emotions, right?
Like so many people, so many of us, the vast majority of us were never taught how to feel growing up, right? So we’re learning it in like our thirties and our forties and that weekend. Like we really, we really give ourselves the space and the time to start allowing ourselves to just feel right. It looks different for everybody. And then from there, like I, I love how you’ve always referred to freedom to be as like healing through feeling and feeling, I think often will unlock a lot of like, healing from trauma situations, right? Would you agree?
Pam:
Yes, absolutely. I think we have a tendency to protect ourselves. ’cause when, when we were younger, the only thing we had control over was our feelings. And so we would begin to think that the feeling was the problem rather than the experience being the problem. And, and so we, we took on the job of protecting ourselves from that feeling In a way rather than trying to figure out how to feel ourselves through feel through it. That is where the healing is. But it’s also, you know, I think it’s just, I, I think it’s really cool how we, who, maybe not the right word, but how, how we are really gonna help, we really help people see, like when you’re reacting in a way that doesn’t match who you truly wanna be, it’s simply because you forget who you truly are in that moment.
And that, that, that actually is what we’re more interested in. We’re not interested in some, you know, your stories like, well of course that’s the way to it, but it’s not about reliving, you know, stories that, that traumatized you. It’s about discovering what did you decide about yourself because of that?
Wendy:
That is such a good question that yeah. You start to answer that question and it unlocks so much, right?
Pam:
Yeah.
Wendy:
So much.
Terry:
You know, I think, you know, in my perspective, a lot of people try to just let that like time heals all wounds type of mantra. Be like, oh, well just more time, we’ll we’ll do this. But in my experience, like having a space like you’re describing at Freedom to Be or something like that, it gives you a chance to have to look at it from different angles and have different perspectives on it. And like you said, Pam, like, you know what, it’s like a what next type of thing. Not just a, oh, I’m just gonna continue just to kind of like huddle in place and hover over this thing and, and then keep looking at it and hoping it feels better one day.
You know, it’s a, it’s a chance to actually like springboard forward and, you know, use whatever that is, whatever that looked like to not only help yourself, but maybe even help others. I mean, you’ll definitely, you know, help the people that are surrounding you. ’cause you’re usually holding a weight that you don’t think anybody else can see. But usually everybody can feel it if they know you well.
Pam:
Yeah, sure Terry. For sure.
Wendy:
That was like a mic drop moment.
Pam:
Yeah, it was.
Wendy:
Yeah. That was like, we’re gonna, we’re gonna cut that right there, that minute.
Terry:
I’m gonna check out for a little bit minute
Wendy:
Editors. Okay. Number three, we have, if we really want to look at effective steps to ending reactive parents as a parent, as patterns, as a parent is, identify and escape from blame habits. Hmm. So again, my knee jerk reaction is to blame. Just even sitting down to this interview with today was so funny. I know I’m gonna tell is Terry’s always like so good with the technology and he is like, remember honey, you should re close out all your tabs. ’cause I’m like doing this intense technical like program right now and, and, and project and it, there’s like literally a million screens, like intensive projects open. He like, from the other room, he is like, honey, remember you wanna shut down and restart the computer.
So it operates really well. And I’m like, dang it, you know? And then I see that it’s like four minutes to. So just looking back at this right now, right away I can feel a self beat up comment to myself of like, oh, you idiot, and look at you waiting till the end. Like you’re so disorganized. Like, what’s wrong with you if I really slow down and analyze it and then I shut down And I didn’t save my notes. I was working in the calendar for some reason And I didn’t save it and it lost all my notes for this interview. And I was cracking up because instantly I started blaming Terry like instantly. And he said, he said from the other room, you could hear me
Terry:
Well no, you said from the, you, you, you yelled from in here. Just lost all my stuff. Trying to restart, just lost all my notes. Gonna have to scramble to, to do ’em again. That’s,
Wendy:
oh my gosh, it’s,
Pam:
That’s good.
Wendy:
It’s so thick in me. And right away I realized I was doing it. And, I do it all the time. Like I, if I hit the dog bowl and it spills all over the ground, I blame the dog, right? And So I just, I’m just trying to normalize like how thick these patterns are and we can laugh at ourselves, right? And like, it’s just, it’s probably gonna take me decades and decades to like completely unravel it. Where my new knee-jerk pattern or reactions
Terry:
This decade there is
Wendy:
Like, please, God, can we expedite this? But anyways, the point is, is like, talk to me about like just escaping the blame habits and also just having compassion with ourselves as we go. Because they really are deep neural pathways, right? They’re, for many of us, they were modeled to us and we were blamed as kids for our parents unhappiness or their stress, right? Or, or the broken relationship as teenagers, whatever it may be. But like blame is just a, a, you, you get it from everywhere and it just becomes baked into you for some people. I, I, Terry again is not a blamer, so not a other person blamer. But talk to us about that one.
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Pam:
Yeah. So. I. I think that as you’re talking, I’m thinking, oh, it might be cool to talk about, the first thing we do is blame our feelings. You know, like, like the thing is, is that if, if you weren’t so revved up in a way, I, you could probably better describe what that feeling was if you weren’t blaming yourself for having that feeling already. And ’cause our feelings are gonna be the first, you know, like an indicator our bodies are,
Wendy:
It was scared. I. Think it’s scared. Right away.
Pam:
And, Oh, okay.
Wendy:
Like scared. Yeah. Like the notes go away and it’s like scared. It’s like uh oh.
Pam:
Yeah. So if you, it rather than, you know, like you’re blaming the feeling without actually saying you’re blaming the feeling like the blame, the scared is the problem. And then you look for the reason why you’re scared and that’s what you blame, you know, that’s what you outwardly blame rather than, you know, if you knew that it was okay to feel scared, and of course you’d feel scared in that moment, you know, would you be able to slow down and just let yourself feel that feeling and then your reactivity would kick in.
Wendy:
Yeah. And trust in yourself that I got those notes up fast. Yeah. Like, I was like, mind you got this.
Pam:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And, and you miss out on that acknowledgement of yourself, of how quickly you can, how deeply ingrained this concept is, you know, already for you. Not just the problem that you blame, but also the reactivity around it, that you miss seeing that about yourself because you’re, you’re blaming yourself.
Wendy:
Oh, beautiful. Well, and poor Terry, oh my God, I love you. He’s a saint. He is a literal saint.
Terry:
Like subject A over here.
Wendy:
This, this one is like, one of the things that we do the most in the course room, right? Like during this weekend, is we, we work a lot on what this looks like in real life. How do you, how do you heal Like how do you create new habits? How do you change the neural pathway? Like we do a lot of this and it is so life-giving because, you know, you blame, I hate, I shouldn’t give you a full hall pass, dude, you totally blame sometimes like, oh, we’re talking about, my point is –
Terry:
I do a lot of blaming without saying anything.
Wendy:
Oh, right. Oh, you’re, you’re thinking it. Oh, now I’m gonna be all paranoid. But everybody does it like everybody blames, right? And like even there’s no perfection. You don’t come out of anything being perfect But. it really does. Like in my experience, this program Freedom to Be in particular, and again we do so much of this inside of the Fresh Start Experience too, but Freedom to Be is like the catapult, right? Like you come out of that just a changed person. You see the world different, you see your kids different. Like you’re able to take responsibility without beating yourself up. And when you stop blaming as your knee jerk reaction, you really are actually able to like start changing your behaviors and influence the people around you more effectively.
Pam:
Yeah. I think the most important thing I wanna say about that, that is really a place to start is that blame is a symptom. So it’s not the problem. And, and it’s important, you know, you’ve said this in a different way, but the reality is, is that blaming isn’t right or wrong, good or bad. It’s something that is trying to, when we’re blaming, it’s get trying to get our attention about something else. Her and the blaming is ineffective. That’s why we spend so much time looking at it. ‘Cause it’s ineffective.
Wendy:
Yeah. That’s been one of my favorite like language redirects. ‘Cause I have many now that I’m like, I should, I should create like a, a freebie that’s like, here’s some simple redirects that’ll like change your entire life. Like, and one of them is stop saying like good or bad or right or wrong. And instead it’s like, is it effective or is it ineffective? Are you effectively ending the misbehavior for good of your kids punching each other? Or are you ineffectively? Is it gonna come back in four months when you’re not looking, right? Or like, are you effectively ending your yelling habit or blah blah blah.
So effective versus right or wrong is so good. Okay, our last point, if we are looking at four steps to end, reactive parents, patterns as a parent is develop holding space muscles. So my goodness, I know that this feels impossible to so many people because you know, again, like that knee jerk, you talk fast, you might yell, grab that wrist too tight, or just really be uncomfortable in those moments when there’s conflict, right? Like, why is it so important that we spend time like building up or growing these holding space muscles? And what does, what does holding space even mean Pam?
Pam:
You know, I, I think in terms of parenting holding space is really important to listen in, in listening. And that, you know, if, if you’d start developing, really, if you look at holding space is hanging in there, listening past the place of your, of your discomfort, you know, like leaning into your discomfort, then you can begin to listen with humility, with care, with patience, and gain more clarity. And And, I, I think that those are the, you know, if you look at doing that, will begin to develop holding space.
You’ll hang in there longer before you’re thinking of an answer, before your impatience as you, you know, jumping in before you, you know, don’t care anymore before you like trying to get yourself comfortable. There’s so many things that, that we do,
Wendy:
Perspective.
Pam:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. The, the reactive ways of being holding space is a life again, of lifelong practice because it shows us when we’re having a challenge holding space, it shows this where we need to do our own level of growing.
Wendy:
Yeah. And it’s like, holding space is like a, a similar concept to, you know, taking that pause between the stimulus and the response and then holding space that we do so much work around in the Freedom to Be weekend is like, it takes up that extra layer, right? Where you’re like, really, like, what do you do? Like, there’s all different levels of doing a pause button or a heart connector, creating the space between a, your, the stimulus when your kid misbehaves and the response or your boss says something and you respond. But then holding space like just gives you that extra level of like, okay, how do you develop, continue to develop that ability to, to like, instead of almost have the goal of fixing or making them do what you want or complying.
But like really just slowing down to, like you said, listen and like be in that uncomfortableness. I have so many clients who like, if they’re kid’s in like a tantrum or like a really thick pushback moment where they’re just acting a fool, right? Like, it is just such a journey for them to learn how to like slow down and instead of having the goal to like make their child stop, but like really slow down and like tap into their own reactivity, be able to listen and like use their own intuition of what’s going on in the situation. Like all the things.
And then as your kids get older, I feel like it becomes even more important to like develop these Muscles as you really are like starting to have like more situations where you really, really need to like house important conversations. That for us at age almost 13 and 16, like I’m so thankful that we invested in, in learning how to do this for many, many years now. Because as your kids get older, it’s just beautiful what can happen when you allow like discomfort to be present without fixing them or remembering that it’s okay to sleep on it and talk about it in the morning once you have a full night’s rest. Or start to really like, as you’re listening, start to really listen for like their point of view and where they could be coming from versus just the like the blame and all that other stuff.
But holding space is, is a big one. It’s like encompasses so much. And again, what we do in that weekend is so beautiful.
Terry:
Yeah, I mean I think it’s where a deeper relationship really starts because you know, like you said, if you know, a lot of times the first thing you’re thinking is it’s like, okay, cool, immediate reaction, fix it, move on. I think especially as like, you know, the way a lot of guys are wired, it seems like that’s kind of the thing that just is the default. But when, when you can actually just sit there and like, you know, hear more, let your mind and your heart and everything, like hear even more, even more, I think it just paints the picture into like a new dimension. Like you said, you described it as layers. It kind of, I think it gives you just this much bigger picture.
And then it also allows the person on the other side to feel, you know, feel something about you as the listener too. That just deepens the relationship there. And so it’s, you know, I think it just would take you to a place that no quick fix could ever take you. So, you know, it’s an interesting practice. I mean all of these are, you know, you know, we’re talking about patterns and things that everybody has their current pattern, but with, you know, some work and some intention, you can replace it with a new one and you can say pattern or habit, a new habit of holding space or you know, doing all of these things on the, on the, the list our topic list today.
Like it feels so good, I think for, for both parties. And that’s where you really step into feeling like you’ve got a new life and you’ve got a new relationship and you’ve taken a new another step in your relationship. Your kids will feel it too. If you’re doing this with your kids, like, you know, the floodgate that is opened with our teenager sometimes just by doing the hold, by holding space, it wouldn’t be there if, if everything was just kind of like, what’s my immediate like reaction? Like our relationship wouldn’t be as deep, she wouldn’t tell us as much, therefore we wouldn’t be as close to her. Therefore we wouldn’t be as deep of a mentor to her. We wouldn’t just wouldn’t be able to parent as effectively.
Wendy:
Yeah, exactly. And we, we talk so much, you know, obviously at this stage in our parenting we talk so much about the teenage years, but so much of like what we’re able to, to enjoy now is we started very young, right? Like we were learning with Stella when she was four and Terrin was one, like how to hold space for them, so to speak when they were that age. And then when they elementary school, like when they come home and they bring a note home from the teacher that they got in trouble for talking during their assembly. Like to be able to actually learn how to like listen and listen to understand versus listen to reply and like all the different stages, like, you know, it doesn’t matter how young your kids are listeners, like if you can invest in building these Muscles now, of course like they’re just gonna continue to grow and flourish and, and as everyone always says inside the Fresh Start Experience, like these kind of tools, they’re not just gonna help you with your kids, they’re gonna help you in your marriage and in your career or whatever it may be.
And so just all these things are beautiful.
Terry:
I have a lot of space at work. Yeah.
Wendy:
Yeah. And in your, oh my gosh, well
Terry:
I’m holding this space right here, Pam, this one right here. This is my space I’m holding.
Wendy:
I love We love you Pam. Oh my gosh, what a great conversation.
Pam:
Well it was wonderful.
Wendy:
It was so good to have you. It’s always so easy talking to you listeners. We hope you have loved this conversation. And next steps are to join us for Freedom to Be October 14th and 21st. We will be online and so you can head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/freedomcourse to learn more and grab your ticket. We have 20 seats available and we are, we have a lot sold already. So I think we might
Pam:
Oh nice.
Wendy:
I think we might have six left, six seats left. So I know that we probably will sell out this year. So make sure you head on over, grab your ticket and join us. Let us know if you have any questions. But thanks for being here, Terry, thanks for joining us. Pam
Pam:
You bet. Thanks for having me.
Wendy:
Thanks for listening.
All right, listeners, that’s a wrap. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I enjoyed recording it for you. As we wrap up here, don’t forget to DM me the word shift or head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/discipline to grab your free discipline quickstart learning bundle. You’ll get immediate access to download our extensive learning guide where I’ll share five ways you can ditch the old school, hand-me-down punishment, mindset, beliefs and thoughts that are causing you to react like a volcano instead of respond like the firm, kind, respectful teacher you are at your core.
And then you’ll also get immediate access to my on-Demand workshop where I’ll teach you our three core fresh start family strategies that make up a strong, compassionate discipline toolkit, as well as my favorite logical consequences that not only work with kids of all ages, but do wonders to unite you with your child and strengthen your relationship even in your kids’ worst moments. So pop on over to Instagram right now and just shoot me a DM with the word shift and I’ll send you a personal link to download that bundle right away. Or you can head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/discipline to get access immediately. Alright, thanks for listening and I’ll see you inside that free bundle and also inside the next episode.
For links and more info about everything we talked about in today’s episode, head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/191.
Stella:
For more information, go to freshstartfamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening, families, have a great day.
