In this deeply affirming episode of The Fresh Start Family Show, hosts Wendy and Terry Snyder sit down with Dr. David and Amanda Erickson of Flourishing Homes and Families to explore how gentle parenting aligns with the gospel. Drawing from their own transformative journeys and insights from their latest book, the Ericksons redefine “gentle parenting” as a courageous, Christ-centered approach rooted in empathy, connection, and firm boundaries. They offer a powerful reframe, challenging traditional perceptions of discipline by demonstrating how respect and trust reflect the teachings of Jesus in everyday family interactions.
This episode is a heartfelt invitation to parents to trust their moral compass and lean into connection over control. Through practical strategies and biblical wisdom, Amanda and Dr. David encourage families to embrace parenting as an act of faith and vulnerability. With grace and empathy at the core, they offer hope for creating compassionate, healthy family dynamics that honor both the humanity of the child and the radical love of Christ.
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Episode Highlights:
- Gentle parenting requires a clear understanding distinct from permissive parenting; it’s about leading with empathy and firmness grounded in Christian principles.
- Amanda and David highlight the importance of trust-based obedience and respect in parenting, ensuring kids learn through attachment rather than fear.
- Misconceptions around the biblical basis for corporal punishment are addressed, with insights from scripture differentiating cultural practices from Christian ideals.
- Drawing upon neuroscience and biblical teachings, the Ericksons illustrate how parenting aligns with the gospel when it nurtures connection and character building.
- Parents are encouraged to trust divine guidance and their internal intuition over societal pressures, aiming for a family life that mirrors Christโs teachings.
Resources Mentioned:
Follow Flourishing Homes & Families on Instagram
Grab a copy of their new book The Flourishing Family: A Jesus-Centered Guide to Parenting with Peace and Purpose
Flourishing Home & Families Website
Catch the full episode on YouTube
Listen to Dr. David & Amanda’s Ep. 143. How To See Weaknesses as โStrength Under Construction’
Looking for more on faith & parenting inspiration? We have a whole page dedicated for you!
Not able to listen, or prefer to read along? Here’s the transcript!
0:01:39 – (Wendy): Well, hello, families, and welcome back to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family show. We’re so happy you’re here, and we are. Are absolutely thrilled to have Amanda and Dr. David Erickson from flourishing homes and families on the show today. Welcome to the show, guys.
0:02:03 – (Terry): Welcome.
0:02:03 – (David): Thank you.
0:02:04 – (Amanda): We’re so glad to be back.
0:02:06 – (Wendy): Yes. Yes. Episode number two. Our first conversation we had was all around how we can see kids weaknesses as strengths under construction. And it was such a cool conversation that we had. And so listeners, make sure you. You listen to that one, too, if you enjoyed today’s episode. But today we’re going to be talking about how is gentle parenting aligned with the gospel. And we’re going to talk about ways to do a critical assessment. And that’s what our conversation is going to be about today. And I. And I chose this topic because last time we had such a great conversation.
0:02:43 – (Wendy): And then we keep in touch, you know, on. On the web and through our crazy and wild, wonderful days. And there’s, you know, definitely been so many times where there’s Just been such a huge challenge of this work. And I know so many families who are called to learn and grow and bring more peace into their home through the concepts that both you and I teach and that you write about in your new book which we’re going to talk about.
0:03:10 – (Wendy): But they are just really challenged by people in their lives, whether it’s someone that’s written an article or their own mom and dad or their friends from bio Bible study. But the resistance and the challenge is intense for many, many people. And I just thought a beautiful conversation today where we could help just bring, I guess, peace and regulation, like give them confidence to be able to have this type of conversation with anybody who might challenge them about how peaceful or gentle or positive, whatever you want to call it, parenting is not biblical.
0:03:48 – (Wendy): So.
0:03:49 – (Amanda): Yeah, so, so amazing light topic. Really light.
0:03:54 – (Terry): Yeah, super light, super easy, super light.
0:03:59 – (Wendy): Oh my gosh, you should have seen my back and forth with God. I was like, God, we could just like do like a fluffy light conversation, which I kind of feel like we did a little bit. Our first one, it was a little fluffy and light and. And then I was like, okay, fine, we’ll do this. And we really, we really thought about recording this episode a long time ago. Right. I remember there was a season where the, the attack, it felt like very attacking and intense and we were kind of chatting and praying for each other and we were like, let’s record an episode about this. And then life, life. And you guys wrote a book. And so now’s the time. Now’s the perfect time. And I do think it’s going to be a beautiful, light filled conversation.
0:04:39 – (Wendy): So how about this? Will you guys start us off with just telling us how’s your hearts doing? You are in a busy season where you are moving and your book is coming out, which I’ve heard is just an intense but wonderful season of interviews and travel and promotion and even just the inside emotions of wow, we wrote a book and now we are publicly out there for everyone to give their reviews and all the things. So I’m sure there’s an emotional aspect there and you’re moving into an intergenerational home.
0:05:15 – (Wendy): And so there’s. I know there’s a lot going on for you guys. How is your heart right now? How are you doing?
0:05:22 – (Amanda): I know how I’m doing.
0:05:25 – (Terry): This will be a good touch base for the both of you guys. What you can talk, talk amongst yourselves. Let each other know.
0:05:32 – (Amanda): You know, a friend at church last night asked me the same question and I said, I Have. So I have a peace that passes understanding. So much peace. Like, I know that we are walking in God’s plan and purpose in every aspect of our lives right now. And with that comes the ability to see him at work even when we’re, you know, even when life, like we’re in a room that has boxes, you know, stacked around us and our new home is under a remodel. So like there’s no place to go that visually is filled with peace right now. And so we see God at work even when chaos is kind of swarming around us. And I have so much peace. And also there is this tenderness and aware of the vulnerability of putting our story out there.
0:06:19 – (Amanda): We know there’s pushback. We know that there’s going to be quick acceptance for some. We know that it’s going to change lives for some people. We know that it’s going to put our own children under a little more scrutiny. And so there’s a, there’s a bit of awareness and vulnerability in that. And also I just trust in the faithfulness of God and he has proven himself trustworthy over and over again. And this is what we’re supposed to do.
0:06:44 – (David): Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, God, it is a busy season. Like I’m looking forward to the Christmas season. Hopefully it’ll be a little slower because.
0:06:53 – (Wendy): You know how it is.
0:06:54 – (Terry): Nobody ever said that. Ever. Yeah, yeah.
0:06:59 – (David): And you know, but there’s enough for every day, right? There’s enough of God’s grace and strength for every day. And, and so you do what the day has for you today and, and you gotta leave for tomorrow. For tomorrow. Which, you know, that’s. Sometimes, you know, we’re not in the trenches of two year olds and diapers and things like that. But that’s how that season of life is too. It’s so intense and daily and you wonder like, okay, how am I going to get up and do this again tomorrow? But there is strength for the next day.
0:07:34 – (David): So.
0:07:35 – (Wendy): Yeah, and, and, and I kind of knew you guys were going to answer that. So here’s my question for you. Is how do you feel like. Because it has it been. Has your expansion and growth in becoming peaceful parenting advocates and authors and growing your company. Has it been about a decade that you’ve been doing this? Or the boys are like 10, so maybe not that long. Is it six or one of the boys is 10.
0:08:02 – (Amanda): We’ve been on our own peaceful parenting journey personally for. Because oldest was between one and one and a half is when we really started. Like something has to change. Yeah, we started speaking publicly about seven years ago, and then really it kind of snowballed when we started a public facing Facebook page because we had just kind of done everything, like personally. And that’s been five and a half years.
0:08:30 – (David): Yeah.
0:08:30 – (Wendy): Yep.
0:08:30 – (Amanda): Five and a half years.
0:08:32 – (Wendy): Yeah. Okay, so let’s just call it nine years, right, that you’ve been expanding into this body of work and traveling with God to expand and strengthen your family and your soul and your heart in this way. How has that impacted where you stand now with your ability to have peace amongst chaos in all of your life? Right, because we know when we are entrenched and fluent in this work, it is wild how it just expands into all areas of our life.
0:09:04 – (Wendy): And I would love to hear just a little bit if you could let listeners know where you guys were before as far as. Did you feel peace in not just your parenting, but in your marriage and your life and, you know, the highs and lows of everything? And then where do you stand now as far as. And how has that impacted your life as far as the work into all areas?
0:09:27 – (David): That’s a great question.
0:09:28 – (Amanda): Isn’t it?
0:09:29 – (Wendy): Okay, I hope that came out, like, I don’t know if that makes sense.
0:09:33 – (David): I mean, so I would say one of the big things for us is leaning into Jesus and finding peace from him, not from the external situation going on around us. So many times we want to kind of control the situation so that the situation is peaceful so that we can have peace and that, you know, it doesn’t work with our kids, it doesn’t work with our parents, it doesn’t work with our job. As much as we try to do that, it doesn’t actually work.
0:10:09 – (David): And so having leaning into Christ as the source of peace and finding peace internally so that you can face external situations, some of which are fine, peaceful, calm, and some of which are not. Like, our marriage has been, you know, a rock for 19 years now. Yeah, 19. You know, and. And so there’s so much, you know, peace and confidence in. In the marriage that it’s like. Yeah, that. That’s totally great.
0:10:40 – (Amanda): Like, when you. When you included marriage in that, I was like, I can’t even remember a time I didn’t feel at peace in our marriage. Not one time.
0:10:46 – (Wendy): Yes, us too. Us too. Yeah.
0:10:50 – (Amanda): Sorry, I interrupted you.
0:10:51 – (David): No, I don’t remember where I was going.
0:10:53 – (Amanda): I’m sorry.
0:10:55 – (Wendy): No, I love that. Yeah. And Amanda, how about you as far as, like, then versus now or.
0:11:04 – (Amanda): Well, I would say there’s one big factor in that. When Our boys were preschoolers, toddlers, babies. I had severe postpartum anxiety. And that obviously impacted the lack of peace in our home. And it was internal to me, it was external. And I don’t, I’m not dealing with that now. I mean there’s certainly, there’s certainly like concerns about life and these transitions and changes, but that extreme feels like everything is collapsing on top of me.
0:11:39 – (Amanda): That doesn’t happen anymore. But also like, like what David said in leaning into Jesus. And I just wanted to read one verse from Philippians 4 because this verse about, in Philippians 4, 4 through 7, there’s kind of the, like these imperatives and commands. Like rejoice in the Lord always and don’t be anxious about anything. But in everything by prayer and supplication, make your request known to God. And there’s this teeny tiny, little, tiny sentence in there that often gets forgotten because those are given as like, these are rules. You need to check these things off.
0:12:15 – (Amanda): Rejoice in the Lord. Don’t be anxious. Take it to God. But then there’s this tiny sentence and it says the Lord is near. And that is like the foundation and the depth of how we can rejoice in the Lord and how we can be, not be anxious and how we can take our request to the, to the Lord is because he is near. And I think of it in the, in like when our, when our kids are just in chaos and a mom, mom or dad steps in and they’re like, I’m here.
0:12:43 – (Amanda): And they bring them in and they bring that co regulating or non anxious presence in and they’re like, hey, I’m here. I’m here with you. You’re not alone. And when I was reading that night and I read that and I was like, I want to flip it into God. Jesus is the first person saying I am here. And so knowing that he is with us and he is not flustered and he is not standing over us as a hard taskmaster trying to make sure we do better, like he is there with us saying, we’re doing this together.
0:13:15 – (Amanda): You can depend on my strength when you are weak. I have compassion for you, I have love for you and I desire good for you, even in this hard season.
0:13:26 – (Wendy): Beautiful.
0:13:27 – (Terry): Yeah, that’s awesome. As you were describing, you know, the way that you, you’re looking at parenting, David too is like I think is very different than I think a lot of people experience. So I think just acknowledging that too is, you know, you’re finding this space to where you are not Reacting right away. And so on a very, like, practical standpoint, you’re actually finding a space where you can find a moment with Jesus before anything else, before you’re just kind of flipping the switch on whatever is going on out here in the world, because that stuff’s going to always go on in some way, shape, or form. So I think that’s a beautiful thing that I resonate with of like, our before and after is like, you know, I think as humans, and especially, you know, usually in the, the homes that we’re raised in and in culture, it’s like something happens and it’s like, well, what are you going to do? And react quick and.
0:14:29 – (Terry): And go. And I think that that kind of strategy, whatever you want to call it, I feel like is. Is taking God out of the equation sometimes. Of like, no, actually, like you said, Amanda, like, he is near. I can. I can take all the space that I want here to act within who I am as a person, but more importantly, who I am after counseling, you know, and praying and doing whatever I need to do. But I think so many people just miss that space. And a lot of parents, I think, just have this, like, no, I have to react.
0:15:07 – (Terry): And then usually then it’s like, then there’s a bunch of cleanup work to do because you didn’t like the way you reacted, or some people just bulldoze through life and just like, just keep reacting and never even reflect on the cleanup.
0:15:18 – (Wendy): But yeah, yeah, it’s so true. And I loved how I’ve seen. Saw you guys write in the book, which I just can’t wait to hear more about that. Before we even get into our subject matter, I want you to, like, just talk about the book for a second. But, you know, I saw you write about nervous system regulation in the book and what’s happening for so many people when they have that, like, panic button spike. Right? And I think the work of peaceful or powerful or gentle parenting really is so much about learning to heal your nervous system and also not have the panic button go off when there is a mess. Right? Because I think so many of us were raised in those, like, highly high control environments where the messes were not safe. So if there was a mess, if there was a misbehavior, the panic button went off. And that was a lot of times emotional and physical harm. And so it just makes so much sense why we grow up.
0:16:17 – (Wendy): And then we have little human souls that we’re interested with, and when they make a mistake or are imperfect, the panic button still goes off. And it just feels so unsafe. Right. And so we just fear like something bad is going to happen because a lot of times it did. We were like, our nervous systems were so conditioned to believe that mess or mistake equals danger. And so I love that you guys are really just helping rewrite that narrative and bringing science into your work to help people understand what’s actually happening in their bodies. And it’s not like people are just choosing like, oh, I’m going to be high control and you know, try to like, be like, you know, wild.
0:17:01 – (Wendy): Everything has to be perfectly in order person. It’s just so interrelated, I think, to the environments that we were raised in. So I love that microwave world.
0:17:13 – (Amanda): Right. Like, we kind of want microwave parenting where it’s like, I want to. I want to respond to this in 30 seconds and get the result I want. When really, like raising children is like way slow cooker, you know, like, we’re. We’re not teach our children.
0:17:29 – (Terry): It’s like a brisket.
0:17:31 – (Amanda): Yeah, right. Or maybe even like cheese or wine. You know, we’re talking.
0:17:36 – (Terry): Yeah, no, even better.
0:17:38 – (Wendy): Yeah, that’s a good analogy.
0:17:41 – (Amanda): So, you know, we. There’s like this. When our children are little, like, there’s this anxiety of like, well, if I don’t teach them not to hit their brother when they’re angry, like they’re going to punch a hole in the wall when they’re teenagers and they’re probably going to commit murder, you know, and so we have to teach the lesson now as fast as possible and program in and get the product or the result that you want 30 seconds or a minute later. And that’s not how parenting works. It’s not how brain wiring works, and it’s not how our nervous system works.
0:18:07 – (Amanda): And it’s also not how God works.
0:18:09 – (Terry): Yeah, I love that term, microwave parenting. I mean, I think anybody. People can relate to that.
0:18:14 – (Wendy): Yeah, yeah. It’s not how it works. And yet that is how it sure feels like. I’m going to say for just this is not a accurate, you know, perfect stat, but between 80 and 90% of people are taught that it that grew up in the evangelical church world is that that’s how it works. Instant obedience is the goal. And so what a wild shift, right? That is just if you fill it with tenderness and compassion for the journey, it’s a beautiful one. And it is intense for so many because it is literally taught out the gate, since you are, you know, a very young child, that instant microwave results is the goal. Right.
0:18:55 – (David): So you have to keep yourself of that. Because, like, now, like a toddler, let’s say I’m at church and a toddler does something, I’m fine. It’s all good. Not nothing gonna bother me. But we have preteens in our home now, you know, and so that they bring, you know, as. As children go through the various stages of life, they bring new stuff to you and you got to learn how to not react to that stuff. And so it’s a continual growth process.
0:19:28 – (Wendy): For us as parents.
0:19:29 – (Amanda): It’s easier now. Like, we are so used to recalibrating that the process of recalibrating is so much faster and smoother now.
0:19:37 – (Wendy): Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s we agree, right? We’ve got 13 and 16 now. And our little mellow guy, he is now, like, you know, a little. Getting a little spicy. He’s a little spicy in this. He’s almost 14. And we’re like, who are you? Whereas we’re used to it with our, with our older daughter. But. Okay, well, we’re going to get into our discussion points around how do we critically assess gentle parenting and is it aligned with the gospel? But first off, just tee us up about this book, you guys.
0:20:07 – (Wendy): Oh, my gosh, it’s finished. It’s out into the world. I have it in my hands right now. It is beautiful. And oh my gosh, the COVID is gorgeous. I love the size of it, everything. And just give us a synopsis of how you would describe this, this book and, and help listeners and, and viewers understand, like, why they want to go grab it.
0:20:32 – (David): Yeah, well, actually, we were writing this book the last time we were on. We were on a writing retreat for the week. Yep. Podcast with y’all while we were churning out chapters of this book. But I mean, our goal is to really help Jesus followers try to put as much Jesus into their parenting and into their family as they can. Like, that’s our big picture goal. That’s what we want for parents and what we want for kids, for them to learn about Jesus.
0:21:05 – (David): Not just in Sunday school, not just at family devotional time or Bible reading time, but learning about the goodness of God. And in the midst of their mess ups, in the midst of mom and dad coming in, in a moment of discipline, that we’re teaching them about Jesus through all of that.
0:21:28 – (Amanda): Yeah. And so much of what it has looked like in the past is that parents would talk about Jesus and they would, like, they would do the verbal instruction of teaching their children about Jesus, but then, like, except experiencing who Jesus was didn’t happen very often. And it didn’t really ever happen when there are mistakes or disobedience or disrespect. And when we pay attention to all of the mess around Jesus and how his disciples, you know, didn’t always do what he said and weren’t living up to, you know, the. What he was calling them to, like, how he responded to that is very different from how we as parents, you know, maybe started out responding to our kids. And so that is a big part is just like, what would it look like to parent after the way of Jesus? And then I know the second big part of it is to help parents understand that we as Christians should expect to find harmony and congruity. Is that the right word? Congruity? Between neuroscience and what we’re learning about God’s creation, humans and how they develop, and God’s word, their Bible.
0:22:41 – (Amanda): And when. When we look at it together and we really understand that Jesus is the full expression of God, is that Hebrews that tells us that. And that, like, we learn from Jesus, who God designed and created us to be as humans. And it aligns beautifully with modern neuroscience and child development and what we know about how the brain works and how it reacts to fear and how it reacts to love and attachment.
0:23:09 – (Amanda): That character is formed more through attachment than through will or through verbal instruction. Well, Jesus calls us to abide in him so that we can become like him. That sounds a lot like attachment.
0:23:22 – (Wendy): Yeah. Yeah.
0:23:24 – (Terry): No, that’s amazing. Yeah. And I mean, when I look at just purifying the message down to Jesus, like being the center of all of this, of what. What we can learn and carry into our lives, both our personal lives and family lives. It’s like, what was his character? And, you know, and then also relationship. So, you know, I think the character, it’s like, you know, he’s the best example of strength through humility or that showing that vulnerability is a strength.
0:24:01 – (Terry): I mean, all these things that just kind of, you know, in normal human existence, rarely coexist because people want to overpower or show strength in inappropriate ways. It’s like, you know, if. If we’re being called to be more like him in all of our, you know, whether it’s at work, at home, with the family and everything, it’s like, wow. What? What. Like, that’s a huge takeaway for me is to. Is he’s the ultimate peacemaker, and he showed strength in so many, like, counterintuitive, countercultural ways that are not the ways of the world. And I think that’s that’s the big takeaway.
0:24:41 – (Terry): And that’s the person that I want to have a relationship with and that’s the person that I want to introduce my kids to. And that’s what I want to look to, you know, day in and day out. Because there’s a lot of noise in the world as, you know, everywhere you look that, like, purify it. Let’s just get down to the character and the relationship for me.
0:25:00 – (Wendy): Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I’ve always connected so much with you guys because you can just tell that that is the center of your work. Work. And you know, our. We have a program for Christian families called Jesus Guided Parenting. Right. Because we’ve always just felt so called to, to have Jesus at the center, which is just really like wild to navigate these days as an American Christian, because it just is like there’s so many days where I just feel so full of despair because it just doesn’t feel like there’s a lot of Jesus centered Christianity happening.
0:25:33 – (Wendy): And so we just do what we can in our homes and our hearts to stay Jesus centered. So I love that about your book and I just cannot wait for every single family to read it. So. Well, let’s get into our subject matter about how to critically assess gentle parenting because again, as we said at the beginning, there are a lot of families who, they feel this, like, gut intuition that something is wrong, right? Like, we both started out our journeys, we both started out with like the classic, like, feeling like we needed to control our kids.
0:26:11 – (Wendy): Everybody I asked, just told, just told me, just hit her. That’s the way. Here’s a scripture based book. Buy this book. It’ll teach you how to hit her with a switch and make sure you get control and, and then, you know, especially with the strong willed ones. But with Stella, it was just so clear that it was not working. And my heart was just a mess. I was just, just in chaos, you know, and it felt like such a long season. But it was probably, gosh, you know, by the time she was 2, because that’s really when it shows up, right? Like a lot of times.
0:26:45 – (Wendy): And it just did not feel right. And so we switched into a different model and felt so convicted and full of hope and excitement when we found out that there’s a different way. Which I just imagine the families who meet you for the first time or, you know, a company like Fresh Start Family, and they’re like, wait, as Christians, you can parent a child with compassion and gentleness, like, what? And then their heart just starts going Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Yes, this is, this is it. And then they learn and they start seeing these beautiful results. And peace builds in their home and connection builds and cooperation builds and all these things. And then the associate pastor or the pastor’s wife or like, this happens all the time in my community.
0:27:33 – (Wendy): The Bible study pals are like, we’re concerned and what you’re doing is not biblical and here’s all the reasons why. And then the articles written by random people get put into the world that shake people to their core. I released an episode with Christina Dronin from Gentle Christian Parenting. She has a large group and following, and we recorded on the fruits of the spirit in parenting. And one of my students who’s now in our Become a Parenting Coach program, she’ll be certified in the fresh start family approach in just a few months. She’s doing incredible work in the world. But her Bible study and her father called her into a meeting room because they thought she was worshiping the devil when she shared the link to parenting with the fruits of the spirit.
0:28:19 – (Wendy): This is like a very big deal for people. And the resistance is so intense and so harsh and it feels very aggressive. And again, it happens all the time for my people. And most of the time when I’m working in intimate environments, like private sessions with my high level students, we are doing healing work from being raised in a high fear, high harm, emotional, physical, high control, often fundamental evangelical uprising.
0:28:53 – (Wendy): And it is just wild to me how much it jacks people up and then when they go to parent this way and change their, you know, their legacy, upgrade their legacy, end painful generational cycles and truly follow Jesus in the way they parent, they’re met with incredible resistance. So I want to start this off by just saying, you know, when I looked up the. The definition of critical, it came to this because it sounds very harsh, right? Like critical.
0:29:22 – (Wendy): And we often think of it as the negative. But the definition is expressing or involving an analysis of the merit and faults of a work. And it says literature, music, art, but let’s just say it’s a book or an education program or a style of parenting, right? And the example that the definition gives is she never won the critical acclaim she sought, right? Like an artist or something. So critical can be a beautiful term to really look at from an honest perspective.
0:29:50 – (Wendy): What’s happening here, right? Like, can we trust this? Like, is it in line with the gospel? And so let’s start off by just talking about the merits, right? So how is like, what is like, so wonderful? And then we’ll talk about faults, which really is usually perceived faults. And then we’ll talk about how to trust divine guidance and your heart when so many people have been taught not to trust their heart and that emotions are wicked and scary and, you know, you can’t trust yourself.
0:30:20 – (Wendy): But let’s start off with this idea of the merits and some of the things you guys cover in your book is connection at the center, respect and conflict, trust based obedience. But how. What are the merits of gentle or peaceful or powerful parenting that align with the gospel?
0:30:41 – (Amanda): I think we got to start with defining. Yes, I. I know one. One of the struggles that is out there is that gentle parenting as a phrase has no clear meaning anymore. And there’s. There are a lot of rebuttals against, you know, is. Is gentle parenting Christian or is gentle parenting biblical? And in all of that, there’s such a lack of defining what it is or a misunderstanding of it.
0:31:11 – (Wendy): Yeah.
0:31:13 – (Amanda): So you want to define it or do you.
0:31:16 – (David): I mean, you want to define what we’re talking. Well, what we’re talking about, I would say. So when people say gentle parenting, it’s kind of like an umbrella term that in general means we’re probably not spanking our kids. All right. I think that that’s pretty much the one thing you can definitely tell about somebody that is saying, I’m a gentle parent. And from there, it could be anybody who is, like, extremely permissive, almost just inattentive to their kids to someone who is like hardcore timeouts, but they don’t spank, so they’re gentle parenting.
0:31:52 – (David): And it’s like, this is just all kinds of things.
0:31:57 – (Terry): That’s like minimum security prison parenting.
0:31:59 – (Amanda): Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:32:02 – (Amanda): Or, you know, really heavy on, you know, logical consequences that maybe aren’t actually related, but they kind of make. They kind of make sense to the parent, you know? Yeah, yeah.
0:32:14 – (David): And so you know that it’s such a broad thing. It has entered the general cultural vocabulary, and absolutely nobody has control of the narrative. Okay. So whenever I see somebody talking about gentle parenting, I’m always like, okay, I wonder what’s going to happen next? And you just. You just don’t know. And so the term itself has kind of become problematic. Obviously we use the terminology peacemaker parenting.
0:32:47 – (Amanda): Y’all use a different terminology. Almost everyone has started picking up a slightly different term because the broad term just has become kind of meaningless. But to get back to, like, the merits of what we’re going to talk.
0:33:03 – (Amanda): About, non punitive authoritative parenting. How’s that?
0:33:06 – (David): There you go.
0:33:07 – (Amanda): Okay, that worked. For y’all?
0:33:09 – (Wendy): Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And it’s so confusing for people because authoritative is different than authoritarian. Right. I know when I first started, when I first became a coach, I was like, man, this is confusing. You got autocratic and authoritarian in the same category of my way or the highway, high control, lots of fear and force. And then you got authoritative, which is more similar to democratic connection, relationship based, firm, kind parenting. Right.
0:33:40 – (Wendy): So a little difference because, I mean.
0:33:42 – (David): We do, we do believe that, like, God has put children in this family, like these parents, and God has, you know, set them as an authority over them, to guide them, to nurture them, to help them grow up and. Yeah. And, you know, there’s no shame in leading your children, you know, oh, I’m gonna forget her name. But she, she does a lot of work in toddlers, but she talks about confident leadership. And it’s just, you know, how do you confidently lead your toddler out of this tantrum over to the lunch that they apparently don’t want to eat?
0:34:27 – (David): They asked four or five minutes ago, you know, and, you know, and so, I mean, we want people to, to take on that role. Right. We’re a family is not just an assemblage of four random, completely equal people in a house.
0:34:47 – (Amanda): Okay, yeah, equal and worth indignity.
0:34:51 – (David): They are equal in worth their dignity. But, but not all of us are developed same way. Not all of us have same responsibilities. Not all of us can do the same kinds of things. And that’s totally okay. And parents need to take on the role and the responsibility of being the parent. And so that’s why we use the word authoritative. Like, yes, you are the authority in your child’s life. But she also said the term non punitive.
0:35:19 – (David): Right. Like, we’re gonna, we’re gonna exercise that authority. We’re going to lead our family without using punishments for when our kids mess up, because our kids are going to mess up. They are going to do wrong things, they are going to break relationship, they are going to pummel each other. They’re, they’re going to be unkind. They’re, they’re, they’re, they’re going to experience the whole range of social possibilities, especially if you have at least two, you know, and, and that’s, that’s part of developing and growing and learning. Like, okay, this is okay. And this is, this is not okay.
0:35:57 – (David): And we can teach our children the difference between okay and not okay without punishing them every time they mess it up and get it wrong.
0:36:06 – (Amanda): Yeah. I just want to add a little bit of Jesus and scripture to what he said. Because I know those who are listening that are, that are listening with a critical ear are going to be like, well where’s, you know, where do you get that from the Bible? And those who are listening, like, yes, I agree with you, but how do I communicate this to my, my parents or my pastor? In Mark 10, verse 42, Jesus is talking with his disciples and they had asked him like, hey, who’s going to sit at your right hand when you, you know, when you are in all of your glory? And so they’re kind of, you know, there’s a little bit of rivalry going on. They want positions of power.
0:36:47 – (Amanda): And Jesus call, it says in Mark 10:42, Jesus called them over and said to them, you know, that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles dominate them and their men of high positions exercise power over them. But it must not be like that among you. And so when we are talking about authority as parents, our authority is not to look like the world’s authority. We’re repowering over and we’re cowork, coercing and forcing and you know, bring like bringing our, like our children are. You don’t have a choice but to do this because I’m the parent and you have to obey my authority or.
0:37:27 – (Wendy): Else you’ll get hurt.
0:37:28 – (Amanda): Or else you’ll get hurt. Like Jesus says, it must not be that way among. Yeah, we want to take what he said seriously and obey his instruction. And so we do it a different way. We, we exercise authority in a different way.
0:37:43 – (Wendy): Yes. Which comes through trust based obedience, connection being at the center and respect in conflict. And what’s so awesome is we both are examples of organizations and, and helpers who have so much data that it works, it works so well. Right. Like if you really want to model the love of Christ and have people learn how to obey. Right. Like and, and obey has been a term that has been like again used to like so many people have hurt and harm around that. But like if you really want a child to learn how to obey with true respect, then this style, this, these tools, these relationship based, firm and kind authoritative ways of leading your family while also being willing to see that sometimes your child is actually going to teach you things that you would have never imagined.
0:38:42 – (Wendy): I mean, Terry and I stopped drinking alcohol a year and a half ago because Stella made a mistake as a 15 year old and we were like, wow, God, that was unexpected. Thank you, thank you for the mistake our child made as a normal 15 year old. Kid and to set us on a path of realignment with you and modeling what we expect our children to do. And so it’s just so powerful to know that it just works. And so for everyone who’s wondering, like, you know, just imagine if there’s this way that you didn’t have to hurt and harm and humiliate and force your children into submission and cooperation, but instead to lead with relationship and connection at the center and respect and conflict.
0:39:28 – (Wendy): That is so, so easy to see how Jesus did that in, in his lifetime and in his teachings.
0:39:36 – (Amanda): For parents, especially with younger children or who have been parenting, you know, more, exercising power over. And now they have maybe older kids, but especially with younger kids, there’s not a broad imagination of what it might look like to hold a boundary with your child without being very harsh and having to use force. And so because there is not an imagination, like they can’t visualize it in their mind, they assume it can’t be done.
0:40:04 – (Amanda): And that’s, I mean, in a way it’s kind of sad because they didn’t have it. They, we didn’t me. Didn’t have that modeled regularly. And also it, because you don’t know what it looks like doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. And there are going to be times, especially in the younger years, like you have a boundary to hold. And you are going to be the firm, confident leader who is helping your child get in the car seat because you have to be at the doctor’s appointment in 25 minutes. And there’s not a different option. They’re getting in the car.
0:40:38 – (Amanda): But those overriding their need in the moment or their frustration or whatever is going on, those are few and far between when they’re necessary. They’re not everyday happenings of. This is just the culture of our home. This is just the rhythm of our home that you did it because I said so. And there’s, you know, I’m holding this boundary every single time regardless. And I’m gonna, you know, drag you to your room or to the table or whatever.
0:41:03 – (Amanda): Like when it needs to happen, it happens because we’re the. And we know that it needs to happen. But we’re not doing it out of anger. We’re still empathizing with them while we take them to the car. We’re still telling them this is hard for you. It’s also hard for me. I, I don’t like going to the doctor either. Like, we’re, we are holding compassion for them as we lead them to do the thing that needs to happen.
0:41:25 – (Amanda): But I, it’s, it’s hard for some parents to understand that we are holding boundaries, we are enforcing expectations, we are leading our children towards maturity and giving them lots of practice in that because they didn’t see it happen without punishments or without, you know, harshness. And so they don’t know that it can happen.
0:41:46 – (Wendy): It’s so true. And I’m so happy you brought that up, Amanda. Yep. And the idea of like, we still make it happen. We always do. Right. And some like we’ve, through this work, you learn to be like, open your hands a little bit so the grip is not so tight. Right. So like if you are five minutes late to church or the doctor’s appointment, you still make it happen. And you prioritize teaching with respect and dignity and compassion, which in the end works so much better to get the kid next time to get in the car when it’s time to be to church. And then also you bring in the strength of humility where you realize, oh, I think I’m, I’m getting the children to the car too late.
0:42:28 – (Wendy): Like we, as a three year old, we should be getting to the car a half hour early and then billing in time for play and then getting there a little bit early. Right. Like, it’s just, just there’s so much else that comes with it. And yes, we make it happen while also releasing that grip of control and knowing that the mess is actually safe. Sometimes it is safe to be five minutes late, even though it feels like your nervous system is going to die when you walk in the dentist office five or ten minutes late. Right.
0:42:57 – (Wendy): And so that’s such a big part of the work too.
0:43:00 – (Amanda): We told our, our youngest son is autistic and we told that we decided in kindergarten that showing up to school regulated is more important than showing up on time. And we will always take the tardy if it means he shows up regulated. And so it is not a disrespect for you or the class. I know it can be disruptive if he comes in a little bit late. We teach him like we’ve talked with him. If you do show up, like, here’s how to show up respectfully late, but like, we’re not going for perfect attendance or no tardy because I would rather he show up regulated and ready to start his day five or 10 minutes late than show up on time just to get, you know, the little sticker or whatever happens.
0:43:44 – (Wendy): So true.
0:43:44 – (Terry): Oh, yeah, we, we joked a little bit at the top of the show just about like, you know, the toddlerhood and then now preteens and teens and like some of the, you know, the new things that challenge us. I mean, when we really look at it, it’s like it’s usually the things that keeps people from, from evolving their parenting or looking at things this way. It’s like it’s inconvenience or annoyance.
0:44:12 – (Wendy): Fear of embarrassment.
0:44:13 – (Terry): Fear of embarrassment, which usually is wrapped up in like, I think two things. It’s like it’s a blow to someone’s ego. I think a lot of times it’s the dad, you know, I can’t have a little kid talk to me and like that in front of other people or, you know, so it’s this blood of the ego and then this resistance to growth, you know, and it’s like, what would you look, what did it look like if you just kind of removed that for a second? And then usually the crutch that they, they lean on is like, well, then I go into this and do this. God, God told me to do it. You know, it’s like, whoa.
0:44:47 – (Terry): But what if you had more tools and you also had the motivation to say there’s a long term thing as we were talking about like making cheese here, here. The, the long term goal is, is a relationship. You grow, the kids grow, we get to know Jesus and the character of Jesus together. Not everything happens overnight. The, your life becomes more rich versus this. I gotta blow to my ego. I gotta do this. God told me to do it. Repeat, you’re right, you’re wrong.
0:45:20 – (Terry): You know, it’s like I feel like the world is just so, like just wound up in this like resistance to growth and this, this, this human humanness of this ego blow that it’s like they’d rather fight to stay where they are than to find that they could grow into this beautiful family together, you know?
0:45:43 – (Wendy): Well, that takes us perfectly into the next one of perceived threats and you know, threats, because when you’re critically assessing something, you’re looking at the merits, you’re looking at the fault, faults. And maybe I said threats, but faults is what I meant to say. And you know, talking about that like knee jerk reaction to resist or say, this will never work. Right, let’s speak to that for a minute because I think I see one of the perceived thoughts and you guys tell me your thoughts too, is again, some are going to go to that permissive side, right? And then, and what I wanted, what I wanted to say after hearing you talk, Terri, is to bring in the compassion piece of with the clients I work with. The reason why they pendulum swing so hard as they’re trying to figure out how do you do this firm and kind autocratic non putative thing is they are also a lot of times healing from so much wounds trauma of like just being raised with fear and force their first 18 years of life like it is, it makes such an impact on the nervous system that, that it’s, you know, so many people again swing to the permissive side because all they know is that they don’t want to repeat what was done to them and it does not feel Christ like at all.
0:46:57 – (Wendy): And they’re, they’re like inner compass, their moral compass, their heart, their intuition is going off and they just don’t know how to do it. And so in those moments I think so many people swing to the permissive side and then that gets labeled as gentle parenting and perceived like it’s a perceived fault of gentle parenting. When again you guys define that, that it is not. That’s not what it is. That’s just a human that’s healing and trying to figure out how to not repeat generational cycles in their home. And how do you, how do you actually raise a child and get them to do what you want without fear and force? And you know, we’re here to say it’s so possible and Jesus showed us the way and it takes practice.
0:47:39 – (Wendy): But what would you guys say about that? When it comes to perceived or, or faults of gentle parenting, would you agree that it’s just a perceived thought that is, it’s. That it’s permissive.
0:47:48 – (Terry): Quick nugget too.
0:47:49 – (Amanda): Yeah.
0:47:50 – (Terry): And I’ll let you respond. Some people will say, oh, positive parenting, gentle parenting. Does that mean you never say no? And our response is always actually we say no more than most. When we look at our, the other families that are out there in the world that do things totally different, we actually are the ones that are holding firmer boundaries and saying no to more things. So misconception and that’s just wanting to take it away.
0:48:16 – (Amanda): Yeah, we’ve noticed that too.
0:48:19 – (David): I mean so some of that perception is, is grounded in what people have observed. They have seen parents, I mean social media and they see it on social media. They have seen parents that have swung wildly permissive. That, I mean one of the things that, that we deal with a lot is you know, a parent, let’s say they have been spanking and they take that out of the toolbox like okay, I am not going to do that anymore. I’ve made that Decision.
0:48:50 – (David): I’m not going to spank my two year old. Okay. Well now it’s the next day and the two year old just did the.
0:48:59 – (Amanda): Thing that would have got us making.
0:49:00 – (David): Yeah. And now what you gonna do? And they don’t. No. That they’re like, well, what am I gonna do? And so they don’t know what to do, so they default to not doing anything. Yeah, it’s like, well, I guess they’ll grow out of it. Which, I mean, kids do grow out of it, but also they, you know, there’s, there’s a reality of like, okay, that is actually developmentally normal for a four year old to lie. All right, so normal for year old to lie.
0:49:28 – (David): Also not acceptable for four year old lying to me. Okay.
0:49:33 – (Wendy): And you gotta teach. And you gotta teach. You always gotta teach.
0:49:37 – (David): And so. Okay, my four year old just lied. So I, you know, maybe I would have spanked in the past. I would have gotten spanked for that by my parents. I don’t know what to do. So I default to doing nothing. And pretty quick we are off into permissive parenting because we just don’t know what to do.
0:49:59 – (Amanda): I just want to make sure like it’s very clear appeasement or fawn response is a, that is a trauma and stress response. So parents, swinging into that permissiveness and appeasing your children, it is like it, it’s understandable and there’s a reason in your brain why. And also just like a four year old who’s lying, we’re not just not addressing it, we’re not just hoping they outgrow it. Like, and also if you find yourself in that swinging into that, it’s, it’s to be expected. It is a trauma response and there’s healing and there’s hope and there are resources to do something different so that you don’t stay there.
0:50:44 – (Wendy): Exactly. And I’m sure you get questions all the time in, in your community work that you do. And I for sure, every week there’s a least one hashtag FC done is how we do our questions. And it’s like, hey, I feel like I’m being a little permissive here, you know, and it’s kind of like we, we as coaches, we get to help the person understand. Okay. If you’re like we always say, if you feel guilty, you are guilty, so just make amends and it’s okay. Guilt is different than shame. Right. Like, and so many people who were raised with the fear and force have, so they go to shame really fast. Right. But like Guilt is just like, oh, I feel like I’m not. Not doing what I feel called, like I’m air quote supposed to.
0:51:21 – (Wendy): And then they ask like, what. What can I do different here? Right? Because it feels a little permissive. And we get to come in and say, great question. Here you go. We want you to come back tonight before you turn on Saturday morning, before cartoons get put on. Gotta teach, right? Like, how are you gonna teach? What is. What is a logical consequence that’s related, respectful, teaches responsibility and reasonable. Right. Like, kind of. That’s the way we teach it. But it just, it’s like it. It that matters, right? Like that matters. And you’re right. They.
0:51:52 – (Wendy): You have to have that, that visual of like, okay, I can feel it’s a little off. And have the support system or your book, a book like this to teach you. Oh, I feel the internal guidance of this feels a little permissive. And then let me get to a place because it is part of the journey for so many people. But then the gentle parenting is not biblical. Articles get written and it’s like, like I don’t even. I don’t even understand, like, who. The people that write these articles have never. It’s like they’ve never even written. And hopefully now they will read this. Right? But like, it’s like a lot of times you’re like, it’s like they’ve never even read or been entrenched in this work.
0:52:30 – (Wendy): So it. Yeah, but it’s a perceived fault.
0:52:34 – (Amanda): And we actually have the exact same concerns about permissive parenting. Like, what they’re saying is right. If they just called it permissive parenting.
0:52:43 – (Wendy): Right?
0:52:44 – (Amanda): Like, agree, agree, agree, agree, agree. 100. Like, down the, down the line, I agree with you on all of that. If you said permissive. But the gentle parenting, that used to have a meaning and it used to be pretty well known. Like, yeah, there’s consequences. You don’t rely on them. Like, they’re not your main way of teaching and training using consequences. They’re related and they’re meant to build skills and scaffold their ability.
0:53:12 – (Amanda): Like, that’s all part of what originally gentle parenting was, but now there’s no clear definition. And so what they’re describing and writing about is permissive parenting. And it’s like they don’t even know. There used to be a different understanding of it. And that’s so frustrating for us.
0:53:28 – (Amanda): Right?
0:53:29 – (Wendy): Yeah, I like. So that’s an easy, easy kind of thing that someone, a listener or viewer can do. If someone says, oh, you know, you know, it’s not biblical. They can say, you are so right. And what that article is actually referring, referring to is permissive parenting. That’s very different. Gentle parenting. And you know, because the article and was named that gentle parenting is more about true strength.
0:53:53 – (Wendy): Right? Like finding strength through vulnerability, self control, self regulation, emotional literacy, peaceful conflict resolution, relationship based. Yeah, yeah. Connection based influence. Like that. What, that’s what, what gentle or positive or peaceful, whatever you want to call it is. But you’re right, right. Like I think people’s guards come down if you can make them right in some way. And I love that you said that. If they just labeled it permissive.
0:54:21 – (Wendy): Permissive parenting is not biblical. We would be like, thank you for writing that article. We are on the same page. And here’s what actual gentle is. So I can’t believe we’re coming up on time already. This is crazy to me because I could just talk to you guys. Go ahead, David.
0:54:35 – (David): I would say two, two, two lines of critique that often get brought up. One is that gentle parenting doesn’t talk about sin. Gentle parents don’t believe their kids sin. And you know, and so, you know, they say, oh, there’s some, there’s somebody that’s got a book called Good Inside. There’s somebody else that’s got a book called no Bad Kids. So obviously these people don’t believe that our kids, kids have a sin nature.
0:55:02 – (David): We wrote a whole chapter on that in our book about sin because that, yes, it’s a reality. Our kids do sin. There, there’s a Bible word for some of that behavior. Okay. And that word is sin. And, and you know, and, and, and we talk about like, okay, but what does it mean, like if my child has sinned against me, if my child sinned against their, their sibling or, or someone else else, how do we handle that? Well, we handle it the exact same way we would whether we labeled it sin or not.
0:55:32 – (David): You know, and there’s other that, that aren’t sin. That’s just developmentally normal behavior. Like your, your one year old throwing their spaghetti on the floor. They’re not defying God, okay. To do that. They’re just learning gravity. Like that’s just all that’s going on there.
0:55:48 – (Terry): I love it.
0:55:49 – (David): Doesn’t mean it’s not annoying.
0:55:51 – (Terry): Well, and that might help the parents so much too that like is in, in those moments, you know, any of us, even the most like chill parents, like that happens and you get all riled up. But if you remember something like you just said, it’s like they’re just learning gravity. Like, that could be enough on its own to snap you out of it and be like, this is no big deal. Move on. Like, stick with the. That’s minor league stuff. Come on, guys.
0:56:15 – (Wendy): Yeah.
0:56:16 – (Terry): So what you got to clean up something. Hopefully you don’t have a white couch. Bought a white couch. You might need to get rid of your white couch for the toddler your years. Sorry.
0:56:22 – (David): Yeah.
0:56:22 – (Wendy): And once you learn about compassionate discipline and natural and logical consequences and you know how to teach and, and set firm boundaries, like, you can handle the situation so it doesn’t happen as much, but you got to be empowered. You got to fill up your toolkit. You got to know what your options are. And David and Amanda’s book is the. Just one of the best ways you can do that is just read all about that.
0:56:46 – (Wendy): But. Okay, so our last point that we. We’re going to wrap with because we do have to be cherry to the. Yeah.
0:56:51 – (David): One other critique that often gets. I want to make sure we hit it.
0:56:57 – (Amanda): So people –
0:56:58 – (Wendy): Yes. Do it. Yes.
0:57:00 – (David): No. Is the perspective that, well, corporal punishment is biblical and so spanking is biblical. Now, of course, when most people do that, they have no idea what corporal punishment in the Bible is. Is, is like, I mean, yeah, we have a whole chapter on that in our book. There’s a whole book, it’s called Corporal punishment in the Bible. That’s like, no, this is what’s actually happening when we’re talking about the rod.
0:57:31 – (David): And, and of course, it’s nothing like what anybody is talking about when they’re using the word spanking and that disconnect between what the Bible is actually talking about about and what parents or, you know, grandparents, pastors are saying, well, this is what you need to do with your kid. It’s like, that’s got nothing to do with what the Bible’s talking about. And, and so, you know, we wrote a whole chapter kind of laying that out and exposing that difference, you know, because it’s, it’s, it’s true. You know, people have been taught to read the Bible to say, oh, well, the Bible advocates for spanking.
0:58:12 – (David): And so to come in and look at it with fresh eyes and be like, but does it? Because that’s not spanking, what the Bible is talking about. And that’s the other place where I think people get derailed on the biblical side. Like, well, this isn’t what you’re doing isn’t biblical.
0:58:32 – (Wendy): Yes.
0:58:33 – (David): And this one’s a little bit more adversarial, I might say. So Maybe not the way you want to lead in, but being like, yeah, but what you’re talking about, that’s not biblical either.
0:58:45 – (Wendy): Yes.
0:58:46 – (Amanda): Like this is, this might really upset some people, but I think the really strong reaction and defense of spanking kind of reveals that people intuitively know that there is at least potential for harm. Because if we’re talking about, you know, giving your kids it’s whole grain spaghetti noodles versus white flour spaghetti noodles, nobody is going to have a strong, like there, there’s, there’s gonna be a few people that are like, oh no, whole brain is.
0:59:14 – (Amanda): But like in general the masses are not going to be like, you did it the wrong way and it absolutely has to be this way. And so when we, I think there’s such an internal drive to defense banking because there is an understanding that the stakes are actually high for. And a lot of people don’t recognize it or they aren’t willing to admit that.
0:59:34 – (Wendy): Yeah. And again, really, if we’re using a compassionate lens, you know, most likely a lot of times it is a trauma response.
0:59:44 – (Amanda): Right.
0:59:44 – (Wendy): Like you see, you see the knee jerk defense as a way to protect, protect yourself. Right. Like the fear of criticism or being wrong is so intense for people and, and you know, I just think that’s, I love that you spoke to that because that’s probably what’s underneath A lot of it is just people are really scared and, but yet they have no visibility about that. Right. And so there is this knee jerk defend, defend, justify and even aggressively make people wrong.
1:00:14 – (Wendy): When you really pull back, you’re like, wow, this is wild. And it just, it doesn’t make sense when we’re living a Jesus centered life. And then especially once you learn how to read the scriptures and understand what they’re actually talking about, which now again, families have a really easy way to do that just by getting the book, whether it’s Amazon or just requesting it from your library.
1:00:34 – (Wendy): Right?
1:00:35 – (Wendy): It’s going to be free and, and just really preparing yourself so you understand that what the scriptures actually mean and becoming well versed. And so you, you can actually have a conversation on a play date to let people know, oh hey, here’s what this, what I’ve learned this is actually referring to. And, and we could have a whole conversation just on that. Right. So maybe next time we will just give ourselves the time and space to have a conversation on. Like let’s just dive in to the scripture piece around discipline.
1:01:06 – (Wendy): And I think that could really bless people. But today we’ve got to wrap it up which kills me because I just want to be here with you guys all day long. But we got to get Terry to the airport. He’s going to see his dad. And I want you guys to wrap it today with. When it comes to following divine guidance and instead of like consistently conforming to what culture is saying, and I know so much, so many people are like, it’s culture of the world.
1:01:33 – (Wendy): And what I’m speaking about here is actually culture of the church, right? Like the culture of the church that is so thick that again, is going to come out after you hard when they hear that you are now practicing compassionate discipline. I mean, my people, they just come. They get come at hard if anyone sniffs out that they have stopped spanking. And. But like, how do you prioritize that internal divine guidance that comes from above with your internal perfectly designed intuition and gut, right, to be able to say, I’m going to trust my heart here, even though I’ve been taught that it is wicked and untrustworthy and that emotions will lead me astray. And so when I feel wrong hitting my kids, I can’t trust that. Right? Like, how have you guys leaned into together with God, following your heart, your intuition, your moral compass, and co creating this beautiful, peaceful parenting home with your children?
1:02:36 – (Amanda): I think it’s such a deep conversation to really dive into. Like, what is my, like, how do you differentiate between, like, is this the leaning of the Holy Spirit? Is this my intuition? Is this divine wisdom? Is this my heart? And we don’t have time for that. Yeah, but like, that, that would be such an interesting conversation to have. But I think for me here I have found the most peaceful is knowing that the human body, the human brain, nervous system is resilient. God designed it to heal.
1:03:11 – (Wendy): Yeah.
1:03:12 – (Amanda): And I take hope in that. But more than that, I really believe that God is always, graciously and abundantly at work in my heart and in my children’s heart. When I am not getting it right, when I am getting it right, when I am, like, showing up my best. When I am showing up my worst, he is always at work. And so trusting in God’s divine wisdom is also trusting in his plan to cultivate his work in my children’s hearts just in spite of or despite what, how well I’m showing up, it isn’t all about me us getting it right.
1:03:49 – (Amanda): And if we are looking for wisdom, I’m just gonna have to bring up James chapter 3 tells us that wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy. Full of mercy. Full. Abundant in mercy and full and good fruits, impartial and sincere, and a harvest of righteousness. If we are hoping our children will grow up to be righteous, it is sown in peace by those who make peace.
1:04:22 – (Terry): Love that. That’s a great. That’s a great thing to leave people with. That’s awesome.
1:04:25 – (Wendy): Yes. And, I mean, we clearly have way, like, many more episodes to record with you guys, so I’m going to be in your email inbox. Even if it’s like six months out, I want to schedule with you guys and we’ll. We’ll dig into some of those other big conversations. But for now. Yes, but for now. Oh, my goodness. Tell everyone where they can come get this book and. And find you guys as we tune off.
1:04:50 – (David): Yeah, well, of course, it’s available at all major booksellers. Amazon, ChristianBook.com, barnes & Noble, Walmart, Target, wherever.
1:04:59 – (Amanda): Yeah, you can go to our website, flourishinghomes and families.com, click on the book link at the top and it’ll. It’ll take you to wherever you want to buy it.
1:05:07 – (David): Yep.
1:05:07 – (Amanda): Yeah. Yeah.
1:05:08 – (Wendy): Amazing.
1:05:08 – (Wendy): And Instagram, because you guys are just so rock steady on Instagram with your incredible guidance and education. How about that hand?
1:05:17 – (Amanda): We’re at flourishing homes and families on Instagram, Facebook, and technically Tick Tock. But you won’t see us on Tick Tock very often, so.
1:05:25 – (Wendy): Oh, we love you guys so much. Thank you for being such incredible lightworkers of the world. Thank you for putting Jesus front and center in your home, in your parenting, in your work. We just. We just cherish flourishing homes and families so much.
1:05:42 – (Amanda): Thanks for having us again.
