On this episode of The Fresh Start Family Show, we are taking a closer look at one culture’s form of hand-me-down autocratic parenting: Tiger Parenting.
It’s a parenting style that stresses success and achievement at any cost so that the child fulfills the parent’s definition of “good enough.”
Wendy is joined by her Asian-American cousin Midori to chat with today’s guest Iris Chen about growing up in Tiger Parenting families.
Iris is the author of the book Untigering: Peaceful Parenting for the Deconstructing Tiger Parent, and the founder of the Untigering Movement. Her mission is to inspire generational and cultural transformation, especially among Asian communities.
There’s no question that we love our kids, AND there are many things we do as parents that are born out of the idea that parents need to be in control of their children by any means necessary and define what success should look like for them.
This episode lays the groundwork for rethinking the cultural influences many parents adhere to in parenting vs what we are at choice to do.
Are you ready for a LIVE & IN-PERSON immersive learning experience with me?
Join me in sunny San Diego, California for a learning experience like no other!
** There are very limited spots and they are filling up quick, so save your spot now!! I can’t wait to see you!
Episode Highlights
- When we only focus on stopping a behavior, we might go to controlling and disconnected methods.
- When we focus on what the need behind the behavior is, we can approach with curiosity and connection
- Tiger/authoritarian parenting creates “well-behaved” children who only behave out of fear and don’t know how to self-regulate
- Allow our children to be who they are authentically instead of putting pressure on them to achieve and be something
- Our children have an inherent worth simply because they exist, not because of how well they do or how much they achieve
- None of us are perfect, and we don’t help anyone by putting on a front that we are.
- It’s important to bring awareness of thoughts that our kids’ behaviors and choices are going to bring shame to us and redirect those thoughts so the don’t grow up in an environment of shame
- We can help stop shame culture by encouraging parents we see having a difficult time who might be worrying people are judging them
Resources Mentioned
Where to find Iris:
Iris’s Book Untigering: Peaceful Parenting for the Deconstructing Tiger Parent
Her Blog Untigering
on Facebook
on Instagram
Find Midori on Instagam
Grab your Free Quick Start Learning Bundle!
Join The Fresh Start Experience today!
Not able to listen or want to read along with us?
Here is the episode transcript!
This episode of the Fresh Start Family Show is brought to you by our Quick Start Learning bundle to raise strong-willed kids with integrity. This two pack learning bundle comes with a downloadable learning guide and also a free online workshop with me. All about what to do when your kids say, no, I won’t and you can’t make me in one way or another. Cuz we all know our beautiful, strong-willed kiddos resist in lots of different ways. Head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/free to grab your quick start bundle and get started learning with me today.
Wendy:
Well, hello listeners. I’m so happy you’re here for a new episode. I’m your host, Wendy Snyder, positive parenting educator and family life coach. And I’m excited to bring you this episode today with Iris Chen, who we are talking with about how we can solidify unconditional love in our homes, in our parenting. And this is a really special episode you guys, because I had my dear little cousin Midori join us, who I just really look up to and and respect deeply. Maori’s actually a few decades younger than me and very early in her motherhood journey. She has a three-year-old and then she just gave birth to a precious baby boy.
So we’re really excited for her. But I just love the way she does motherhood. I love the way she carries herself. I love the way she teaches her son. I love how he has long hair, just like my son has long hair. And I wanted to invite her to be on the show with us today because she is of Asian American descent and so is Iris. And you’ll hear the conversation today is just really special because Midori can speak to a lot of the experiences that her and Iris, you know, know of firsthand and that Iris specializes in when it comes to helping parents who have grown up with a tiger mom and who want to move on and not parent in a tiger mom way.
So let me tell you a little bit about Iris and then we’ll go from there. So Iris Chen is an author, intersectional unschooler and founder of the Untiring movement. After recognizing the negative effects of authoritarian tiger parenting in her own life, she now empowers others to untiger by advocating for peaceful parenting, self-directed learning, mental health and decolonization. Her mission is to inspire generational and cultural transformation, especially among Asian communities. She spent 16 years living overseas in China, but now resides in her native California with her husband and two sons. You can read more about her adventures in her book Untigering: Peaceful Parenting for the Deconstructing Tiger Parent and on her blog at untigering.com.
So I just really admire Iris. I have been following her for quite some time on Instagram and just love her, her spirit, her soft way of just really calling us into action and challenging a lot of the cultural conditioning from the past to change that, to do it differently for our own kids. So she is just amazing and to hear her and Midori just share right? And a lot of what the culture that they had growing up. And then also what Iris you’ll hear just like so many of us, right? She started to kind of fall into a rhythm in her early motherhood years and then realized, wait a second, I wanna do this differently.
This doesn’t feel quite right with my heart. I wanna learn a new way. And then she just, you know, she, she completely transformed the rest of her, her motherhood journey and now helps so many other families in the world thrive. So I just love Iris and I’m really excited for you to hear this conversation. I think there’s so much, much in common with Tiger parenting as you know, a lot of families that I support families of all kinds, but a lot of families find me who are really kind of knee deep in Christian culture that is of the toxic type, right? Like so much of Christian culture, oh my God, I love Christian culture. Of course it’s my faith, my faith family, my faith community.
But there are certain circles within the Christian community that really teach some pretty scary stuff when it comes to parenting and discipline and it can be really challenging to navigate that. And of course it’s all based in authoritarian parenting, which is the way so many of us were raised, right? So I just found it really fascinating to hear about how authoritarian parenting is so similar, like the basis of fear and force and intimidation and judgment and control and all the things, right? How it can be the same if you were raised halfway across the world in China, or if you were raised here in America, or whether, you know, whatever your background is, it’s all similar.
It feels like crap and it makes, you know, human beings think that they have to make other human beings do what they want and that it’s okay to, to do that through fear and force and intimidation and humiliation and all that whack ass stuff. So it’s just really interesting that there’s so many similarities and it is an honor to, alongside of Iris and Midori who is breaking the chain and saying, I’m not gonna use those type of tactics with my own children and alongside you to help change the world, to make that style of parenting authoritarian parenting no longer the norm in our world.
And so every single one of you who listens to this show, every single one of you who incorporates the tools and the strategies and the mindset shifts that I teach here at Fresh Start Family, I love all of you who are inside of the fresh start experience and are students of mine, everyone who follows Iris’s work and and buys her book and implements what she teaches. And everyone who is just willing to do things different and have the courage to stand up and say, Hey, that might have worked for you mom and dad, but I’m not gonna do the same thing with my kids. And I believe that I can raise amazing, kind, healthy, responsible human beings who contribute to the world and are amazing by teaching them important life lessons with grace and dignity and firm kindness and all that good stuff.
So thank you to everyone who is listening. Every single one of you who listens to this show, who implements this work into your home, please make sure you go support Iris. She’s doing incredible work in the world. Buy her book, follow her on Instagram and make sure you share this with your friends and family. Share on social. If you love this episode, make sure you share on Instagram especially tagging me. I’m @FreshStartWendy. Iris is @untigering and Midori – I wish I knew her handle right now, but I don’t. So I’ll make sure I put that in the show notes page cuz she’s really fun to follow too. But make sure you, you follow Iris. And just thanks for listening you guys, if you haven’t yet to hopped on our email list, make sure you do that over at freshstartfamilyonline.com.
We’ve got a quick start learning bundle to really get you fast tracked in your parenting walk to more cooperation and better listening with your kids. It comes with a free learning guide and a free educational class that I would love to have you attend with me. So head on over freshstartfamilyonline.com, grab your Quick Start learning bundle and that’ll drop you onto our weekly email list too, where I get to reach out and tell you when we have new podcast episodes and just stay consistently in touch so I can encourage you and cheer you on on a weekly basis. So you guys, thanks for listening. Thanks for being here. Without further ado, help me welcome Iris and Midori to the show.
Enjoy this episode.
Stella:
Well, hey there, I’m Stella. Welcome to my mom and dad’s podcast, the Fresh Start Family Show. We’re so happy you’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean, Jesus, and rock and roll and believe deeply in the true power of love and kindness. Together we hope to inspire you to expand your heart, learn new tools, and strengthen your family. Enjoy the show.
Wendy:
Well, hello there families and welcome to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family Show. I am so excited to be here today with Iris Chen. Welcome to the show, Iris.
Iris:
Thank you for having me Wendy.
Wendy:
Yes, and you guys, as a special guest today, we have my little cousin Midori with us who is just going to add so much richness to our conversation. We are going to be talking to, to Iris today about how we can solidify unconditional love in our homes and our parenting. And then we’re also gonna talk about why it works so dang good to help kids behave better too. That’s just a little bit of icing on the cake. But Iris, we are, we are so happy that you’ve taken time outta your, your busy day to be with us. You are just such an inspirational advocate in this space, you know, and I just really admire what you are doing with your Untigering movement. So before we get going, will you just take a moment to tell us a little bit about your story?
Your story is incredible and so fascinating and cool and all of it. So just, you know, share a little bit from from the beginning. How did you get to where you are now? You’re doing, like I said, incredible work in the world, but we would love to hear everything about how you got to this point and why and how you got to this passion of helping families and kids in this capacity.
Iris:
Yeah, thank you so much. It’s a pretty long story, but I think it’s just like I have to start with my own childhood because like for many of us who grew up as children of immigrants, probably many of us experienced tiger parenting. And for those of you who don’t know what that is, it’s really just authoritarian parenting with a lot of rules and a lot of demands and expectations. Not a lot of relational warmth sometimes, and specifically often for the purpose of raising like successful, you know, children in the world’s eyes. And so, yeah, yeah, I think for me that’s the sort of parenting that I grew up in.
A lot of rules, really strict, a lot of expectations. And I think when I started having children of my own, I knew I would like loosen up a little bit. I wouldn’t be as strict as my parents cuz I was, you know, born and raised in America. So I was gonna incorporate some of that too. But there was still like that expectation of obedience and like first time obedience, what I say goes and don’t question me, don’t talk back. And so with my first child, I think the early years were really nice and sweet and then he started showing me that he was his own person and he had his own ideas.
And yeah, I did not take that well. I think I had the expectation that I could control another person, I could control my child, that it was my responsibility to make them behave. So I had all these expectations of my own role as a parent, what that meant, what a good parent meant was to like create a well-behaved child. And my child was not complying with my wishes and would push back, would get upset easily. And I was so frustrated because I think up until that point I felt like I had control over my life. I, yes, I like made plans and like those plans didn’t pan out and having children made me realize I don’t have control.
I am so frustrated, but I didn’t know what else to do, so I just came down harder. I felt like if I made it more painful to disobey me, if I just created more, more like pain, more hardship, then they will learn to obey me. But what that did was it just created this cycle of, of disconnection and anger and frustration on my part. I was so angry, I was such an angry mom. And it just got to the point where I realized I don’t enjoy my child. It was a really scary place for me to, to believe because you know this, you know, stereotype of just like the loving mom where you give everything to your child.
And I was not feeling that with my child. And in my parenting I was like, I don’t like this. I, I’m, I’m tired of this, how can I repair? And yeah, so it was just, there, there were many steps along the way and I think a lot of it had to do with my own personal healing of like healing my own childhood wounds where I was realizing like so much of my frustration with my child was like his, his humanity, his big emotions, his imperfections, and those were also the things that I had a really hard time accepting in myself where I wasn’t allowed to fail, I wasn’t allowed to cry or to get upset, I just had to hold it all in.
And so there was this one time when I went to a parenting workshop and I was there sort of like, as a friend of the speaker, I wasn’t really even there to to learn. I, I thought like,
Wendy:
I’m not here to learn, I’m good.
No, I dunno why I was struggling, but I felt like I, I sort of got it down. But then she was talking about just neurobiology of children and how developmentally they need our help to regulate and how when they’re disregulated and then we come down harder on them by yelling, by spanking, by doing all those things, it actually makes them more disregulated. And so what they really need from us is our calm, our compassion for them to like calm their bodies and brains down. And I think that was the first time that some, somebody had like, talked about neurobiology in the context of parenting.
And because in the past I had always interpreted it as willful disobedience. If a child is not listening to me and doing, as I say, it’s because they are willfully trying to gain the upper hand and I need to show them whose boss. But this really just blew my mind and, and showed me like they’re struggling. My child is really struggling and I am punishing him for struggling. I’m punishing him for having a hard time. And what he really needs for me is more compassion. He needs me to help him through this hard time. And so that really began a shift for me where I, I was recognizing the ways that I was interacting with him was like exacerbating the behavior.
It was making things worse and I wasn’t providing for him what he needed. So that evening I went home and I talked to my husband. I was like, because at that point I had been using a lot of authoritarian, abusive, oppressive strategies to try to control my children’s behavior, spanking being one of them. And I realized, like, I went home and I was like, I can’t do that anymore. I thought that that was the right thing to do, but I’m realizing that that is so harmful, so damaging, and I can’t do that anymore. And so yeah, he was really supportive and, and that just really began a journey for me to lay aside these power over domineering, coercive controlling strategies.
And once I like said, I’m not gonna do those anymore, it was just like, okay, what am I laughing?
Wendy:
What am I gonna do now I know,
Iris:
Know what do I do? And then begin discovering, I began discovering more connected, like relational, respectful ways to just see our children, see them with new eyes and really provide for them what they really need. And so yeah, that was really, you know, the start of my journey and I think through all the years it was like I was so thirsty to gain more knowledge and resources because it, this was never modeled to me and I didn’t really see other people like parenting in this way necessarily.
Maybe, maybe in some ways, but not in other ways. And so I like scoured the internet all the time. I was like scrolling through and it really became just a source, like a resource for me to, to learn so much and shift my thinking. And so I began blogging about it, I began sharing resources and then I wrote a book about my own journey and about the lessons that I’ve learned. And so yeah, that’s how it all began.
Wendy:
Oh, so good. And how old are your kiddos now, Iris?
Iris:
They are now 12 and 14.
Wendy:
12 and 14. Awesome. I have 12 and 15, so we’re, we’re very, very close. But I, I, gosh, so beautiful. Thank you for sharing your story. I think it’s amazing how, you know, 99% of us who become educators and such advocates in this space. We have the almost the same exact story, right? Like the same. And I love how, and, and one of a place where I read your story once you, you share how, I think it was your little guy, he was like, this is not your words, but basically he was like, hell no. Like he raised his hand and was like, no, you cannot do this to me in his own way. Right? And I always felt like that’s what Stella did too when I was trying all of the external authorit, you know, authoritarian staff of the spanking and the timeouts and she just revolted against it cuz she is my beautiful, strong-willed little girl and who’s the reason why I got into all of this, right?
So that’s amazing. I can just relate so much. But I thought it was, would be really fun to have Midori here today too, because Midori is a beautiful young Asian American mama. And I say little cousin because she’s two decades younger than me, but she’s not so little anymore. She’s all grown up and she’s expecting her second child. But I, you know, I just think I, I wanted to hear if, you know, A, if you can relate to some, some of what have Irish shared about growing up in Asian American culture and just like high demands, you know, it it, and it’s so much of like, and I love that you use the word oppressive a lot, Iris, because that is a word that I think everyone is starting to understand this, you know, that norm of parenting that runs so thick in so many cultures has so much like, it’s so tied with like, so much of the messed up stuff that we’ve done in the world, not just in parenting, but it’s, it’s oppression, it’s straight up oppression.
But I just thought maybe Midori you could share, maybe if you could relate to being raised with some of that stuff and then becoming a mom and wanting to do it differently. Now I have a feeling Iris, the little, your little one that basically was the one that got you into this work. Would you describe him as having a beautiful, strong will?
Iris:
Yes, but I, I think I realized that his strong will was because of his sensitivity. Cause he was so sensitive that he would react in really big ways when I tried to control him. So it’s, it’s not the type of strong will where it’s just like, you know, digging their heels and like wanting their own way. It was just because he was so overwhelmed all the time.
Wendy:
Oh that’s so fascinating.
Iris:
Yeah. And
Wendy:
Because Midori got blessed with like a, a very like may maybe similar like he, your your little guy’s three now, right?
Midori:
Yes.
Wendy:
Cove is three. And he, like, he, he doesn’t replicate the same behaviors as Stella, right? Like he’s very different. And part of me is like, oh, you got less with the easy kid just like, let’s see, let’s see what second brings, right? But it’s also like, I think it’s just innate in you Madori to do things differently than how you were raised. And I know that there’s probably times when you are, you know, there’s conditioning and, and so I just thought maybe you could speak to, cuz I know you love, as you’re building your own business, you love to support Asian American moms too.
Midori:
Oh yeah.
Wendy:
And so I just thought maybe you could speak to that a little bit and tell us a little bit about what that was like for you and then your goal as a parent now, especially as you’re learning more about this stuff, is you’re learning more about what I teach about what Iris teaches and just figuring it out in parenthood as you expect your second.
Midori:
Yeah. So it’s interesting hearing your story Iris, and then I know your story with your children because I grew up with a tiger mom. I grew up with a tiger grandma, great grandma, a whole generation like generational trauma, right? So it stems from, I mean, as far back as I can remember. And so I grew up in a Japanese household and for me though, I didn’t have that kind of strong will that your children had. So in like, you know, standing up and saying, no, like you cannot treat me this way.
It’s interesting to me because I kind of did the opposite. So I really shrunk down. I really felt like, okay, this is it. Like this is mom said this and this, and I have to do that. And looking back at my childhood, I feel like I was a very good girl. I was a very good girl. And was that by choice? No, it was because I was in fear of my mom and bringing shame on her. And there was a lot of comparison me with other children, grade reports, you know, it always had to do with performance and if I made her look good and then she would take those achievements and kind of brag about them as if they were her own.
And then my failures or my mistakes were mine and they brought shame to her. So just very interesting hearing that your children were, you know, so strong-willed and I’m proud of them for that and kind of rebelling against that and, and you know, going about a different way. But for me, I definitely did not, I kind of became a shell of myself. It was a very internal struggle that I had to go through alone. So it was very isolating as a child growing up, feeling like my parents, my mom’s love could be stripped away, my grandma’s love could be stripped away at any moment and then kind of dangled in front of me so that ah, yep.
Yeah. So I, I feel like I am naturally a very sensitive person, very empathetic and
Wendy:
Yes you are.
Midori:
And my mom growing up with her tigering mom and her tigering grandma, right? She was not taught the tools. She was, she doesn’t have the tools to open up, you know, have an open discussion, have open communication, talk about emotions, show affection. She doesn’t know how to do that. And so for me, I feel like I was maybe put into her life to kind of show her like, here is embodied a person that is all emotion, all about affection, needs the sensitivity needs, the compassion.
And she just didn’t know what to do with that. And it kind of made her uncomfortable so she would lash out. And I think for me, I am just naturally, you know, like I said, sensitive and whatnot. So when I raise my son and my soon-to-be be child, I just think that I have such a different approach because I know that did not work for me. I ran away from my mom instead of running to her.
Hey families, I want to pause this beautiful conversation for a moment to share that registration for the Freedom to Be Personal development Life coaching weekend course is open. And my gosh, is it so wonderful to be offering in-person events again. There’s only 20 seats available. So if you’re interested in pouring into yourself, healing from your past, breaking free from limiting beliefs and taking charge to create the life and family legacy of your dreams, head on over to freshstartfamilyonline.com/freedomcourse to learn more, snag a ticket and you’ll be able to come hang out, live with me in beautiful, sunny San Diego while you expand your heart, learn new tools and strengthen your family.
Yes, please. Freedom to Be is the program that changed everything for me 10 years ago when I was new to positive parenting and loving what I learned in class, but when I came home to apply the strategies I was taught, I struggled big time. After going through this life coaching program, Freedom to Be, I all of a sudden was actually able to respond versus react, implement compassionate discipline instead of constantly reverting to harsh punishments and actually stop blaming my beautiful, strong-willed toddler daughter for all of my problems. I’m not exaggerating when I say the Freedom to Be course changed the entire future trajectory of my life. And I am completely honored to now be teaching this course.
During this weekend course. You’ll get both the heart and the soul, which is what I call the spirit side of ending, limiting belief cycles and healing from past generations and stories and experiences that are keeping you stuck in negative knee jerk reaction cycles. And you’re also going to learn the step by step logistics, what is what I call the strategy side of changing your unhealthy behaviors like yelling or threatening or grabbing wrist too tight. Or some of us might be more of a withdraw or passive aggressive silent treatment kind of people, but you’ll learn how to change them. Maybe it’s unproductive tones or negative self-talk, and maybe it’s even broken communication cycles.
I’ll teach you how to, to switch those into healthy behavior patterns that you’re proud of and that actually work to make you feel good about the way you handle yourself each day. No matter what kind of challenges get flung your way in parenting, marriage or career. Head on over now to freshstartfamilyonline.com/freedomcourse now to grab your ticket. The date for this year’s in-person program is March 24th through the 26th. And again, it’s in beautiful, sunny San Diego. Okay, back to the show.
Midori:
That’s a little bit of my story and where I come from and yeah,
Wendy:
Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And, and I can’t wait to hear Iris’s just thoughts and like, you know, just reflecting on that, but, and then share with us now that you’re a mom Midori, because I think a lot of times what happens is we either like just automatically mimic what we were raised with. It’s like, dang it, what am I yelling? I’m like, I was never a yeller before I had kids. And then all of a sudden I’m like, shit, I’m like totally replicating the way my parents raised me. But you seem to be doing the opposite, right? Like, so, and, and I know there are days right, where you just have to fight the habit brain or whatever, but like what, talk to us about your, what you would love to, now that you are raising your son and we’ll see what number two is.
I wanna be like, I wanna be, she, he like what, what are your hopes and dreams? Like, you know, being, because I mean, was your, are you third, like are you third generation? Was your grandma in Japan? Grandpa?
Midori:
So yeah, grandma was born in Japan.
Wendy:
Okay, got it.
Midori:
And then mom was born here. Mom was born in California.
Wendy:
So that makes second generation, is that right? Second generation, Asian-American, or like
Midori:
I, would that –
Wendy:
I dunno,
Midori:
I think second generation, I dunno, maybe talk about it differently maybe, but yeah, so with Cove, my son, I really, my goals with parenting is to not just create this blanketed, this is how I parent and these are my guidelines, you know, of course that’s, that’s great to have. But I think that each individual child has different needs and has a different way of accepting love. And with Cove, he is like me, very sensitive.
So I knew that I had to, I had to get down to his eye level. I had to give him that extra compassion and allow him to talk out his feelings. He’s only three years old and he,
Wendy:
oh my God,
Midori:
teaches me.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Midori:
You know, like, he’s amazing, amazing at expressing himself, telling me, mommy, I’m really sad. And the fact that he’s three and he’s able to articulate how he’s feeling. I feel like we’re doing a good job at allowing him to feel his emotions and then talk about them. Something I never got the opportunity to have. So, and the fact that he is willing to come to meet with those emotions is huge for me. Like, because like I said, I ran away from my mom. Any emotions I had, I couldn’t show her. I, I would get in trouble. So it was a lot of, because I said so with my mom, it was a lot of, you’re not allowed to cry.
If you cry there were a lot of physical threats, a lot of spankings. So I mean, I just remember, I’ll, I’ll share really quickly this short story of I was in the back of the car and my mom was driving and her best friend was in the car who I call auntie. And she, I, I don’t know what I did, but I did something and I, I could feel myself starting to get, you know, when you’re about to cry your, yeah, your throat starts to hurt a little bit. You get choked up. And I was just so conditioned to not cry that I told my mom, mommy, my throat really hurts. I think I need to cry. And I remember her best friend turning around looking at me in the backseat and she started crying, like she just lost it.
She was like, how can this tiny girl, you know, not allow herself to cry? Like, I get emotional thinking about it. And now looking back and seeing somebody from the outside perspective looking in kind of seeing like, what is this? You know? So a lot of emotional trauma and healing came when, or the healing started to come when I, I think when I got pregnant with Cove. And so he’s three. So during my pregnancy, that was kind of the shift for me. That was when I was like, you know what?
I wanna do this different. I, I already knew I wanted to be different, but that when I found out I was pregnant, it was okay go time. And I know I have to do some healing myself before I can make any kind of changes, right? Because even in my relationship with my husband, when we first got together, there was a lot of things that I learned from watching her triggered into that. So I was, yeah, very aggressive. I was very, like, anytime we would get in a fight, I would say, okay, well there’s the door. I don’t need you. Right, go ahead. Yeah, go ahead, leave. Because I, I watched that growing up.
I watched her constantly needing to show power. And so yeah, with parenting and now my relationship with my husband, it’s a constant, you know, journey, right? We’re always working at it, but I think that we’re setting up some good boundaries, some good goals, and just really setting up our children for success in being able to come to us, to run to us instead of running away from us.
Wendy:
Heck yes. And I can attest from watching, like I always am worried that my family and friends is like, she’s watching me, she’s watching me. Is she, is she judging me? And I’m like, no, I promise you I’m never judging anyone. However, like dang, I really admire the way you are raising your kids. And especially when you know that we’ve come from a different experience. So, so beautiful. And Iris, I know you’re like, I, you know, I read somewhere that you, you know, some, one way you describe your work is parenting based in partnership versus power. So working with, you know, and and loving to support so many beautiful Asian American moms and families. Does that story that Midori shared resonate a ton?
Like, I mean, does it, is it replicated in a lot of the families you work with?
Iris:
Absolutely. I mean, I think my own story is, is similar in some ways and different in other ways. It’s like I also grew up learning how to be the good child, how to obey and make myself small, like disappear so I wouldn’t get negative attention, you know? And so I grew up as the good girl. I learned how to be that and I’m, but I think I brought that like, unlike you and, and I’m so inspired and so encouraged that you began the healing process. Like you recognized it and you, you worked on it. I think for me, even though I knew that I didn’t wanna replicate it, I didn’t do enough healing work to recognize how I could change.
So it was just like, I don’t wanna do that. But I still ended up doing it, right?
Wendy:
Yeah.
Iris:
I still ended up bringing that, that sense of a need for power, a need for control, like those expectations that perfectionism, all of that. I still brought that into my parenting. And so it wasn’t until like many years later that I recognized, okay, this didn’t work. But I think it’s just so beautiful what you were inspired to do and I this, this whole reparenting aspect that that is really part of our own parenting, right? It’s like where we need to relearn ways to be with ourselves and to see ourselves so that we can show up with our children in different ways.
And so yeah, it’s just so beautiful what you’ve done.
Wendy:
So good.
Midori:
Thank you.
Wendy:
And, and there really is never the wrong time, right? Like for I I’d say 95% of the people who listen to this show are like you and I Iris, where we, we discovered, like, I I was like three years in, I don’t know how far in you were when you discovered it and you did the what I call the 180. And then there is like, Midori represents like the vision that I have for like this work one day, right? That everyone will hear it or just have the sense ahead of the child. But most of us find it or realize it when we’re thick in the like, jacked up stuff that we’re like, oh dang, a, this isn’t working cuz our child is beautifully like revolting against it and, and b, this, this does not feel right in my soul.
And then we do the 180, right? But I hope one day that all of our work, your work, my work, everyone, you know, who does this work beside us, we will create a strong enough current in the world that it will become preventative for people one day That that will become the norm. That everyone will know this before they have kids, right? And so they won’t have to undo everything. Like, it, it is a lot easier when you, when you learn it and when you realize like, oh, there’s so much healing you can do to change so you don’t react like that ahead of it. Like you j if you can just get yourself a little ahead of it, it’s just gonna be easier to implement it. So yeah, so good. And, and everything, you know, we’re talking about so far really like there’s an undercurrent of unconditional love being absent, right?
Like, and I, I find it so fascinating to learn more about the Asian American or Asian culture, Asian American culture, whatever you wanna call it. Like, there are so many similarities. Like I didn’t know that the, in the Asian culture there was spanking. I thought that was just some messed up like Christian thing in America. Like I know there’s spanking in the world, but my, there’s plenty of spanking, right? Like it’s just, it’s it’s not comforting, but it’s also like, God, well thank God we’re not the only ones who’ve got it all wrong, right? Like as, as a Christian myself, I just am heartbroken over the false lies that are spread in like my circle, you know, not my circles of faith, but in circles of faith that have just taught the parents, it’s just heartbreaking and it’s so false, right? But to hear that, that is so common in Asian culture too.
But yeah, let’s, let’s just get into this like, you know, Iris talk to us, like when we’re talking about solidifying unconditional love, right? Like we know that as humans, like we have these basic needs and this is what I teach here at Fresh Start Family, but we have these basic needs and the need to belong is really one of the deepest ones, right? The need to feel powerful is right up there. It’s there, but, and the valuable and all the things, but the need to feel like you truly belong, that you are accepted, that you are understood, that you are honored, that you are just the way you are, that you don’t need to do anything or prove yourself. And dang, we just, most of the parenting stuff that we do before we learn this work, unless you’re Midori you just had, you just had this innate knowing that’s all I can say.
But, but it’s, it’s like backwards, right? It’s like ass backwards. So let’s talk about this first idea of as parents, how we can focus on connection over correction and really see mistakes as opportunities to learn and that we don’t have to be so dang harsh on our kids. Like, riff on that for a little bit for us, Iris.
Iris:
Yeah, I mean, I, I think when we think about parenting, so much of it is often about like behavior management, right? It’s about like how we get our children to sleep on sleep, what we want them to eat, what what they’re supposed to like, you know, all of these things. So it’s all about the surface behavior and what, what I, I have begun to learn is that it’s so much more about connection. And once we have that connection, a lot of the other stuff falls into place. But if we’re we’re hyper focused on behavior management, then it becomes more about control. It becomes about like punishments and rewards, manipulation, domination, all of those things.
But if our focus is on connection, then there’s just so much more ease and joy. And I think a huge like shift for me was to see all of behavior as communication instead of needing to label it as bad behavior, misbehavior, naughty, disobedient, all of those things. But to see all of it as a way for our children to signal to us what their needs are. And if I can see all of their behavior is that I can approach them with more curiosity. It’s just like, okay, why are you yelling and screaming right now? If, if I was just focused on behavior, I’d be like, stop screaming, go to your room.
Like I’m gonna take away your toy, whatever. Because I’m, I’m focused on stopping the behavior. But if I see the behavior like the need under the behavior, then I can be a lot more curious. I can be like, oh, why are you so upset? Oh your, you know, your, your baby brother took that toy away from you and that doesn’t feel good. And, and validate and, and really help them meet their knees. And then once they know that they are heard and connected and feel that like understanding and that unconditional love, then, then they do stop crying. You know, they might cry for a little bit and that’s, yeah, okay, cuz they need to get their emotions out, but then, but then a lot of the times the behavior itself will resolve itself because their needs are met.
And so yeah, this idea of connection is like the core of, of parenting in, in almost every other relationship. We understand that, we understand that it’s about connection and about intimacy, but for some reason with a parent-child relationship, like there’s this hierarchy and then there’s this need for like, we feel like we need to be responsible, we feel like we need to control. And then it becomes less about behavior, but less about connection and more about just trying to get them to do what we want them to do. And I think we really need to share that.
Wendy:
Yes, I think I’ve enjoyed over the years trying to like identify some of the like knee-jerk thoughts that come after misbehavior, which is often ones that were like fed to us, right? Like the statements. So I don’t know if you can think of anything Midori that like, you know, your mom used to say, but like, I think identifying them and be being willing to like, oh this is, this is, this is trying like this like programming almost is like trying to have me go towards the correction first over the connection. So for me, like, shame on you. What were you thinking? You should know better. Those are ones that like come up in my mind right away that, that, because I can’t have awareness around ’em.
I realize like when they flash into my brain with the kids, I mean the kids are older now, right? Like, we’ve been doing this work for so long, there’s not as, there’s not as much misbehavior as when they were young. That’s the beauty, right? Once you have, once you do this work for so long, once you have teenagers, it’s like, oh, teenagehood is is not drama. It’s not awful. It’s actually like just all the, it’s beautiful and there’s challenges for sure. But I don’t know if you’d like, can you think of any like things that your mom used to say that we were definitely focused on correction. Like, you know, that come to your mind.
Midori:
You know, one phrase that pops into my head is just because I said so.
Wendy:
Yeah,
Midori:
There was a never an explanation. And I’ve realized as I’ve grown up, I need explanation. I need to know
Wendy:
Me too.
Midori:
What is ha I think because I felt out of control of my life as a child growing up because somebody was so in control of me. So it kind of led me to this, I need to know what’s going on type of mentality. Like for example, at the dentist, I need the dentist to talk through what he is doing in my mouth. Yeah. Or else I kind of get anxiety and my dentist knows that. So it’s just interesting. So the, because I said so,
Wendy:
Hmm. Yeah.
Midori:
Without any kind of explanation and I, I remember often asking, but why? Like, I genuinely wanted to know why, and I think that if she gave me her, why, I probably would’ve understood, but it was more so of a well don’t talk back type of thing. Yeah. Like, because I said so don’t ask questions. So that’s my,
Wendy:
Which is the opposite of connecting, right?
Midori:
Right.
Wendy:
I mean, I mean when someone says like, okay, that’s a good question. Let me explain to you why we have such a firm limit. Like for our, ours in the last few years has been the helmet, like here in Encinitas, California, I don’t know if it’s like this where you live, but oh my gosh, we are like the e-bike. I swear we are the e-bike capital of the world. And it is wild how many kids roll around with their helmets, unbuckled. I’m just like,
Midori:
It’s terrifying.
Wendy:
I’m going to lose my mind. Like, where are these parents? What do you guys not see? Like this is a traumatic brain injury waiting to happen, but it’s been helmets and then also the cell phone, right? Like we waited as long as we, as long as we possibly could till high school, I still to have a cell phone, but, or an iPhone I should say, out in the world, an iPhone, which was a beautiful, we’re so thankful that we did that now, but there were so many conversations that brought connection versus because I said so and, and so yeah, because I said so just doesn’t, you know, you just gotta have a high level of fear and force with the, I said so in order for it to work and it just does not bring connection.
Iris:
Yeah. I think for me it wasn’t necessarily what my, my parents said, but it was more the look like sometimes in Asian families, they don’t need to say much. They just give you a look. They give you
Midori:
Oh Yes.
Iris:
The eyebrows, the furrow
Midori:
I know what look you’re talking about. Oh yeah,
Iris:
I, I give that look sometimes. So I need to watch myself where like where you just side eye, like give them a look and then, you know, you just know that they’re disapproving. And what you said earlier, Midori about like, you learn how to comply out of fear. And I think a lot of it is just like, what, okay, I need to do this. I need to like fall in line, otherwise I don’t know what’s gonna happen. And so after a while you just, you don’t necessarily experience those ne negative consequences because you’ve learned how to appease, but then yeah, you lose touch with yourself.
You, you aren’t actually making those choices for yourself. You’re doing it out of fear. And so one thing that I I often say is like obedient, like regulated children aren’t always, aren’t regulated really. They are afraid. They’re so like what you said, yeah, Midori, but like not being able to cry because you weren’t allowed to, because you were afraid to cry. And so yeah, you might have a child that never cries, that is always doing what you want them to do, but how much of their emotions do they need to suppress because they are afraid of showing their full selves to, to you.
So yeah. That
Midori:
Do you know, your child, I feel like my mom does not know me.
Wendy:
Same with my – Yeah, I know the same feeling. Yeah.
Midori:
And how sad is that? She will never know me. She knows the version in her own head of me. She does not know me. And I don’t think that, I don’t think that she necessarily is even willing to get to know me. And that’s so sad. And that’s something that I wanna change and not repeat. I want my, I want to know my children and I know that this is a journey and I know that I’m going to constantly have to learn and be curious about my children. They’re not just this person who is, you know, a stagnant being.
They’re evolving, growing themselves. And so I just think about how sad it is that I don’t think my own mom knows me and how much I crave to know my kid. So I just see, like, I just wish she could feel the connection with me and I don’t think that it’ll ever get there.
Wendy:
Hmm. I can so relate to that.
Iris:
I think one thing that you just shared about that curiosity, when I think about that it’s like understanding that your child is a separate being and is their own person. And that it takes a relationship, it takes curiosity and communication and connection in order to like continue to discover them. Whereas like tiger parenting or maybe like more authoritarian parenting is like they, they are this static being, they are something that you mold that you control. And there isn’t that curiosity. It’s like who I make you to be or who I want you to
Wendy:
Be. Yes.
Iris:
And so absolutely to have that curiosity is like, ooh, who are you? And, and that sense of discovery with our children. I think that’s
Midori:
Actually, Terry said something a long time ago when I was pregnant with Cove and he brought this up in conversation, you know, years ago. And he said about Stella, he said, when Stella came into this world, I knew I didn’t own her. Hmm. I was just here to guide her through life and how honored am I to be able to do that? And that has stuck with me like through till today. I I think about that all the time. And so what you just shared kind of brought that up for me.
Wendy:
Hmm. So beautiful. And you know, into our second point about mentoring our children on how to be happy and healthy versus drive performance, like what you’re describing that’s common in tiger momming or tiger parenting and so many authoritarian circles is like this, this like the shaping and the molding and the like, you know, breaks my heart, Christians of like miss like guide your, you know, train your children up and then it becomes, it’s like accomplishment. Like look at what I created, right? But it’s like a lot of like performance driven, right? So it’s like, I was recently, like we were with on a coaching call where some of my students and I were like remembering just the phrase of like, do your best do your best.
You always are pushed to do your best. And then even when you did your best, it was always like, you could do better. You could do better. So it’s like to Iris, talk to us about doing it differently with our kids where we’re not driving performance but we are con like we’re just interested in making sure we do everything we can to raise happy and healthy human beings.
Iris:
Yeah. I the unconditional love piece, right, is like when we were so hyper-focused on performance and on achievement on like quote unquote excellence. And I think what that communicates to our children is that, that our love and our approval of them is contingent upon their ability to, to perform. You know, whether or not that’s like what we consciously want to communicate, that is what we communicate and, and then, you know, we raise children who are so stressed out because they are afraid to fail because they feel like their, their worth and their value in this world is so tied to either their grades or, you know, whatever, whatever that is that we are pushing.
And so, yeah, what does it mean to be supportive parents and express unconditional love? And I think especially for, for me as an unschooler, as somebody who is really trying to resist that, like, that hyper-focus on, you know, success and achievement in the world, but really just allowing our children to be who they are and how can they live authentically in this world instead of me coming to them with all these expectations, all these standards of ways that I want them to perform and standards that I want them to achieve. But really to strip all that away and say like, okay, in this moment, like you don’t have to do anything.
You don’t have to be anything else other than yourself. And I love you and accept you and how can I support you so that you are your best version of you in whatever way that shows up. And so I think like how can we show up in the world, not in order to seek our worth, but because we know we have worth inherent worth. And so if we like empower our children to know their inherent worth regardless of their achievements, then they can go out in the world and be confident and be like confident in offering whatever they have. You know?
And it doesn’t have to be like, you need to become a doctor or a lawyer or whatever it is. It’s just like whatever unique, you know, nature, unique essence that you have to offer the world. How can you bring that with confidence because you know you are loved and worthy.
Listen up parents, I want to remind you that although this podcast is loaded with tons of encouragement, motivation, and inspiration when it comes to positive parenting and family life coaching, the real action is when you step into learning with me through our free quick start learning bundle.
Just pop in your email at freshstartfamilyonline.com/free and you’ll get instant access to a downloadable learning guide about how to raise strong-willed kids with integrity without losing your mind. And then also an invite to join me for my free Power Struggles online workshop where I will teach you five positive parenting strategies to handle pushback with firm kindness and connection versus yelling force and threats. You can grab your free quick start learning bundle at freshstartfamilyonline.com/free. Okay. Back to the show.
Wendy:
Yep. Cuz we all know like true happiness when you grow up. It’s like if you are doing something that brings you joy that you feel like is using like your God-given gifts to like help the world or just be who you are in the world. Like if you are just doing something that you feel called to and driven to and that is who you are. Like that is true happiness, right? Like I think we all discovered that as adults. Like I think your story wasn’t your story that you were like, didn’t you like go to, didn’t you go to Harvard or Stanford or Vass?
Iris:
No, no.
Wendy:
It’s something like, weren’t you like,
Iris:
I went to Berkeley, but no,
Wendy:
OK, Berkeley. But then like you, I mean you were hitting these like high achievements through right? And then you realized like, wait, I actually wanna be an unschooler. I don’t wanna,
Iris:
And I think part of it is just like going through all the motions and, and hitting all those benchmarks and doing what everybody expected me to do. And then at the end it’s like, This isn’t even what I really want. This isn’t what I care about. And like, same with my husband, he became a, an electrical engineer and like worked in this Silicon Valley and then after a while he is like, this isn’t really what I wanna do. And, and became a teacher in China and like, and, and, and found ways, found, found careers that he really loved. Even though like from a societal viewpoint, those don’t give you points. You know, those don’t, yes. Like you don’t, you don’t get the accolades and you don’t get the status from those things.
But it’s like, if we can be true to ourselves and like know who we are and be authentic and like yeah, then we can live a life that feels good for us and that we can go out and serve the world in authentic ways.
Wendy:
That’s beautiful. And we’re get, we’re gonna get to let go of image driving as our last point today, but so, so being that like you’re doing this work in America now, Iris as like this beautiful, you know, like just with this focus, I mean you help everybody, but you have a heart for Asian American moms and families. Like is this movement like taking off in Asia? Like is this being like, or is it less than here? Like, cuz you know, you talk about this drive and the accolades, I mean it’s very American, but it sounds like it’s very Chinese and, and like maybe may, I mean I always think of Japan as like this amazing like just chill place, but maybe it’s not right.
Midori:
No, it’s like goodness,
Wendy:
It’s performance driven?
Midori:
Absolutely. You bring honored your family or you don’t
Wendy:
Hmm. Yeah.
Midori:
So, and there’s a lot of shame and yeah. So
Iris:
Yeah, I’m hoping like, because there’s a lot of media that cannot be accessed within China, so I don’t know how, how much, but I, I feel like worldwide, hopefully that there is a growing movement, especially now that resources are so more, much more readily available, you know, through the internet, through social media and stuff like that, that people all over can just have more resources and more access
Wendy:
Right.
Iris:
To different, and that was the same for me. Like I was living in China, but I discovered unschooling and a community of unschooling and peaceful parenting through online community. Yeah. And so I do see that like, you know, the younger generation, they’re, they’re exposed to more ideas. They’re recognizing like, oh, my experience is not unique to me. That there’s like this community of people that have experienced the same thing that are willing to do the work and to recognize, recognize like the wounds that we need to heal from the generational trauma instead of just like, this is the way it’s always been done. This is like just continuing those patterns, like recognizing no, this, yeah, we need to heal from these things.
And so I’m really hopeful. I am very, very hopeful of continued transformation and cultural change.
Wendy:
Oh, so good. Okay. Well let’s talk about our third point under this idea of like parenting in a way that like solidifies unconditional love in our kids. And that is the, the idea of let’s go, let’s let go of the image striving. So appearing that like alwa like again, it’s just, it feels like a knee-jerk reaction for most of us. Like we are almost more concerned about what other people are thinking than we are about like ourselves and our own kids. So appearing that we ha we or our kids and our kids have it all together and embracing the fact that we’re raising humans, not robots, and that we all have messy moments or imperfections or they’re just, there is no gold standard.
Like, talk to us about that a little bit, Iris.
Iris:
Yeah. I think in Asian cultures there’s this, you know, this shame element. And I think in a lot of parenting about trying to control image, it’s about shaming or trying to avoid shame. And so how can we like, recognize that in ourselves as parents. Like if I notice like, oh, I don’t want my child to behave in that way or to do that thing because of the shame that it brings me. Like for us to notice that and just to be more mindful of that so that we’re not then projecting our shame onto them. It’s just like, oh no, you can’t wear that because that makes me really uncomfortable.
Instead of doing that, just like recognizing how we feel about it and checking ourselves and, and like if our, our child, if our children grow up in this environment well, where they know that they’re unconditionally loved and accepted and are more resistant to shame, then they can go out in the world and like not be so concerned about what everybody else is thinking about them. But I think a lot of times they’re in these environments where, where shame is placed on them, you know, where there’s teasing or bullying or whatever that is. And so like as, as a pa as parents and as a family, how can we at least be that safe space for them so that we aren’t projecting that shame onto our children?
Wendy:
Yeah. And come from a place as ju of just teaching the life skill. Like I’m think I’m thinking like, let’s say misbehavior. Redirection, right? Like just coming from an angle of like teaching the life skill that they need and meeting our kid where they are with connection and being the teacher and the mentor versus like, oh crap, like this person’s judging me and this makes me think of a story you shared with me and, and maybe you can just like share your thoughts and if this re like resonates with you, which I know it does, but like, you were at a photo shoot or was it a photo shoot? I don’t know where it was, but Cove like hit somebody, right? Like, or he took a toy or something. It was wild. It was like maybe the, the, the sling company Maori is absolutely breathtakingly gorgeous and does some modeling and I don’t know, he did something.
And I remember you being like, oh my gosh, it was so embarrassing. Right? Like that that’s the, that’s what we’re talking about, right? Like that moment where you’re like, I don’t know if that was your exact words, but it was definitely like, this mom’s looking at me like, aren’t you gonna do something? And I don’t remember exactly what you said.
Midori:
Well, I do have an example recently, I don’t remember that one. I’m sure that happened, but recently we just had a photo shoot and my husband and I were being interviewed about a product and so we were on camera, they had everything set up, we had mics and everything and I said, you know, is Cove in the shot or not? And, and they said no. Like he’ll kind of be off to the side and as we’re being interviewed about this product, Cove won’t stop making dinosaur noises.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Midori:
I’m just like, like, please, please for the love of God, just like, be quiet for a second. Like, and so, but in that moment I was definitely embarrassed because I think also because Cove is so well behaved and just like is with his own self and is very aware and I don’t even need to necessarily guide him on how to behave in certain scenarios. He’s just naturally kind of gets it. But in that moment, I kind of panicked and I could feel like those tendencies that, like I, I’m, people are judging me.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Midori:
That oh my goodness. Like the whole staff and everybody on set were all eyes were on us and oh my gosh, her kid, you know, and those thoughts enter your brain. And really it’s just like, you know what? It doesn’t matter.
Wendy:
Yeah. And like, or how can I, I wonder what I could do to help him be quiet. Right?
Midori:
Like the, the trying to come up with something in the moment is like, yeah, I kind of froze and I was kind of like, okay, what, what am I gonna do? Like, I dunno what to do. So that’s fun.
Wendy:
Yeah. And we all can relate to that.
Iris:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think we need more of those like human moments, you know, where like, our children are just doing their own thing or we, we don’t show up as our best selves sometimes, you know? Like, how can we also be vulnerable as parents to show our humanity? And like that parenting is messy sometimes, and it’s not like we always have, have all the answers,
Wendy:
Which is so appreciated in the grocery store too. Right? Like, if you can just remember this conversation right now and know that, like, I always tell my students that like, there are people that are admiring you when your child is melting down. Like there are more people that are admiring you and wanna just give you a hug and wish they could like, scoop up the baby and give you a hand.
Midori:
Yes.
Wendy:
Versus people that are judging you. However, especially when we’ve been raised with a lot of like, put on the good look like you, there’s shame brought to your family. If you have imperfection, whatever it may be, then that’s where our mind goes. And then it just makes the, the stressful situation even more stressful because we’re focused on the image striving of like, let’s appear that we have it all together versus like, Hey, I clearly don’t have it all together. So Yeah. I wonder what we do here, have a state of curiosity and just know that like there are people all around you that really do get you. So that’s what I always try to
Midori:
Yeah.
Wendy:
Go in my mind. But it is breaking a generational cycle too.
Midori:
And I actually wanna encourage whoever’s listening that if you do see a parent or a caregiver that is, you know, struggling internally, and maybe they’re having those thoughts of, oh my goodness, everybody’s judging me right now, my child is, you know, going crazy or whatever it may be. I wanna encourage you to say something and say, you’re doing a great job. Because that can be so powerful and that can completely release the stress of, oh my goodness, everybody in here is staring at me and they’re all judging me. It can, it can just re set, set the tone. So I wanna encourage anybody out there listening, if you see a situation like that,
Wendy:
That’s a good takeaway.
Midori:
Don’t be afraid to go up to that caregiver and say, you are amazing. And your child’s behavior does not define you. It does not define your child.
Wendy:
Iris, I think we have a future educator here and coach. I mean, come on. Right?
Iris:
Yes, please.
Midori:
I did that yesterday at the library and it just totally reset this mother, beautiful, beautiful mother’s vibe for the whole day. And I could just tell she was stressed out, her child in the library wasn’t having it screaming, kicking, all the things. And I just went up to her and I put my hand on her shoulder and I was like, you are an amazing mom and you’re doing such a great job.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Midori:
And I could just see her, everything change her whole demeanor.
Wendy:
Yeah.
Midori:
And she felt more confident and it was just a beautiful moment.
Wendy:
So, so good. Okay. Well I’m gonna get you information. How you become, can become certified and start teaching that stuff because I think, I think you need to become a colleague va, so, oh my gosh, Iris, here. You have to run to another appointment or interview. So let’s just end by telling listeners where they can find you, where they can, we’ll make sure that we add your book to our shop page at Fresh Start Family. We have a beautiful collection of all of our favorite resources and books that we’ve compiled over the years, but let’s just tell everyone where they can find you as we wrap.
Iris:
Yeah. So I have a blog, untigering.com, and you can also find me on Facebook and Instagram @Untigering. So I’m most active on those platforms.
Wendy:
Beautiful. And the book will be on the website too, but you can also, I’m sure it’s on Amazon and everything, anywhere you buy books. And what is the name of the book again?
Iris:
Untigering: Peaceful Parenting For The Deconstructing Tiger Parent.
Wendy:
Oh, so good.
Midori:
I love that. I’m gonna have to buy a copy.
Wendy:
Yes, let’s get you a copy. It’ll be my to my mom. Awesome. Well, Iris, thank you so much for being here again, we just feel really honored to have spent this time with you. Thank you for the beautiful work that you are doing in the world. It is so meaningful, and we just appreciate you so much.
Iris:
Thank you so much. I love this conversation. Thanks.
Families. I hope that you have loved this episode as much as I have loved recording it for you. Don’t forget to go grab your free Quick Start Learning bundle so you can really step into learning with me. Head on over to freshstartfamilyonline.com/free, and you’ll get your downloadable learning guide about how to raise strong-willed kids with integrity so you don’t lose your mind. And then also an invite to join me for my Free Power Struggles online workshop. All right, go grab that now. Fresh Start family online.com/free. As always, thanks for listening and I’ll see you in the next episode.
For links and more information about everything we talked about in today’s episode, head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/159.
Stella:
For more information, go to freshstartfamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening, families, have a great day.
