Welcome to Season 3 of the Fresh Start Family Show! And welcome back after a brief summer break!
Terry and Wendy are kicking it back off with their dear friend & mentor, Pam Dunn, owner & Chief Responsibility Officer of Your Infinite Life Training and Coaching Company.
It’s a blessing to have Pam as a returning guest on the show because of the amazing wisdom she shares with us as a community. (Links to the other incredible episodes she’s been on below!)
This week, they explore the idea of complaining (which is really a request in disguise!), and find out how we can get what we want without complaining – imagine that! Doesn’t that sound powerful?!
Episode Highlights:
- Complaining is not asking for what we want…it’s really just stating the problem and registering a complaint
- Venting is NEVER good because it just fuels the story and intensity
- Ask for help with a solution about how to feel differently about a situation
- Figuring out what we don’t want will help us get clear about what we do want
- When someone is complaining about us, we can try to get curious about what it is they want
- Complaining/Criticizing/Blaming in any shape or form causes us to believe that we need to be perfect because it ignites shame and guilt in us
Are you ready to create the life you want (filled with strong healthy relationships) + live with high self-esteem, confidence. peace & joy?
If yes, join us for The Fresh Start Family Freedom to Be – Course
An online – immersive learning experience to help you heal relationships, learn to love yourself more, forgive others easier, shed limiting belief cycles, end protection behaviors & stop blaming yourself & others!
Resources Mentioned:
Connect with Pam:
www.YourInfiniteLifeOnline.com
Discover Magnificence Course
Fresh Start Family Show Past episodes with Pam:
FSF Episode 4 Influencing Skills
FSF Episode 11 Self-Reliance
FSF Episode 52 Holding Space
FSF Episode 99 Emotional Triggers
Freedom to Be Online Course with Wendy & Pam – Registration now OPEN for OCTOBER 15TH & 22ND 2022!
Not able to listen or want to read along with us?
Here is the episode transcript!
This episode is brought to you by the Fresh Start Family Freedom to Be personal development course, you can learn more over at freshstartfamilyonline.com/freedomcourse.
Wendy:
Well, hello listeners. Hi I’m so happy that you are here. Welcome to season three of the Fresh Start Family Show. We are officially back in business. We took a few months off this summer just to have a little bit of a production break, to spend as much time as we could outside and with the kids and just cherishing every day with breath in our lungs. And we’re back though, season three, we’re just really excited to be here.
I’m your host, Wendy Snyder, positive parenting educator and family life coach. And we are excited to kick off season three of the Fresh Start Family Show with a very special episode with our dear friend and mentor Pam Dunn from Your Infinite Life. Now we are talking all about how blame can really kind of sneak up in our life and be something that often happens all the time, but it comes out in the form of complaints. And what we’re going to talk about today is how you can shift complaints and really see them in a way where you actually are able to see the request that’s inside of a complaint.
So whether you are complaining about someone, a lot of times, it’s our kids, right? If we’re being honest, to be able to see, well, what are we actually wanting? What are we actually asking for? And then also the flip side of that is to be able to see when someone is blaming you for something, well, what are they actually requesting? Like, what are they asking you for? Right. It’s just going to be a really beautiful rich conversation to just give you some ideas on how you can see things differently. Because a lot of times when you are being blamed for something, it can be really easy to slip into a victim mentality where it just feels really unfair. And if it starts to get combative very easily and you know, it doesn’t work for us, it doesn’t do anything to add peace, joy connection to our lives, especially as parents.
So I’m excited for you to listen to this episode, especially because next month we have a very special event happening here at Fresh Start Family. We have our Freedom to Be Course that is happening on October 15th and 22nd, and it’s online. We always do it once online in the fall and once in person and beautiful since sunny San Diego in the spring, but it’s happening online. So no matter where you live in the world, you can join us for this incredibly transformative life coaching weekend course. It’s actually, when we teach it online, I teach it with Pam who you’re going to hear in a second here in the show, which by the way, she’s been on our show, many, many times, many of you guys are very comfortable and know who Pam is.
She has been on episode 4, episode 11 episode 52 and episode 99. Like I said, she is very, very special and an important mentor in Terry and I’s lives, but she is teaching with me the Freedom Course, and we do it in online in the fall. So anybody in the world can join us. So whether you are in a small town in Alabama or in a big city across, you know, the U S maybe you’re in New York, I’m in California or you’re in Ireland. I know last time we taught this freedom to be course online. We had 19 students from all over the world, including five in incredible mamas from Ireland.
So it’s just a wonderful way to get this very, like I said, transformative life coaching work into your heart and soul and be able to do it from anywhere. You do it from the comfort of your home. So make sure you go check it out freshstartfamilyonline.com/freedomcourse. This is a course that has a very, very limited seats. A lot of my programs here at Fresh Start Family are self-paced. You can do them as the schedule works for you. So there is an unlimited quote quantity, but say my foundations course and my bonfire express support program, but when it comes to the Freedom Course, there is 20 seats. That’s it. When they are sold out, they’re sold out.
We usually sell out every single time. So I want you to head there now, learn all about what this program includes and how it can really change your life. freshstartfamilyonline.com/freedomcourse. All right, you guys well without further ado, welcome. Help me welcome Pam to the show. I know you’re going to love this episode so much. Enjoy,
Stella:
Well, Hey there, I’m Stella. Welcome to my mom and dad’s podcast, The Fresh Start Family Show. We’re so happy you’re here. We’re inspired by the ocean, Jesus and rock and roll and believe deeply in the true power of loving kindness. Together we hope to inspire you to expand your heart, learn new tools and strengthen your family. Enjoy the show.
Wendy:
Well, hello listeners, and welcome to a new episode of the Fresh Start Family Show. We are thrilled and honored to be here again today with our dear friend, Pam Dunn, who is the chief responsibility officer of Your Infinite Life Training and Coaching Company. Welcome to the show, Pam,
Pam:
Thank you. I’m so glad to be here. I’m looking forward to our conversation as always.
Wendy:
Us too, I mean, we record a lot of podcast episodes. And when we, when we have you on the books for just like, yes, it’s like always having like our own little personal life coaching session too, in addition to serving and supporting others.
Terry:
Yeah. It’s like, you know, if anybody out there watches Saturday night live and they have like the people who have hosted SNL the times, you know, there’s like this competition, it’s like, I’ve done it five times. Tom Hanks has done it this many times. Pam might be our top. You might have to look that up. I know Wendy’s got all the episodes that Pam has appeared on and we’ll drop those there in case anybody wants to go back and either re-listen or listen to those for the first time. Cause there’s a reason why Pam has been on so many times.
Wendy:
Yes, yes there is. And yeah, we love you so much, Pam. So today you guys, we’re going to be talking about how all of us can get what we want without complaining. And we’re just going to talk all about blame and how to turn complaints into requests. And it’s going to be a really cool conversation. This is an integral part of the weekend course, Freedom to Be that Pam and I teach together in the fall every year. And we’re just really excited to chat. But Pam, I have, you know, given listeners a little introduction before this reminded them a bit about who you are and why you are so special and dear to us, but will you give us just a little update on how you’re doing, how things are going over at Your Infinite Life.
I know we get to hang out a lot. You offer so many resources and continuous training for those of us who are life coaches and part of your organization. But just tell us a little bit about where your heart’s been. I mean, gosh, what a crazy two years it’s been, but you have been doing some really phenomenal work throughout the last few years. And so maybe just give us a little update.
Pam:
All right. Hopefully the podcast doesn’t go on too long. I’m really excited about the changes that we made as you know, as the world started changing a couple of years ago, you know, I realized that, I had so many blind spots as a leader. And when I step back and look at some of the systems that we were operating from as an organization, they were systems that were rooted. in, you know, I’ll just say white supremacy, racism, oppression, you know, and it wasn’t that we were doing that. Like we didn’t create those systems, but we, we also felt like it was our responsibility to start changing them.
So we started with changing our values and then really looking at how to do our systems now support our values. It’s often what we do in families, right? If a family creates a value system, you know, values that are important, then you have to change your systems to match those values. And that’s what we’ve been doing, which has, you know, as you know, Wendy, required us to do some really deep work on ourselves, some hard work. But what I’m excited about is the expansiveness of seeing our depth of love for humanity in an, in a way that holds us accountable. And we’re very grounded in really a wide high-level view of what we’ve been up to.
Wendy:
Yeah. And it’s, and it really has been, I know, expansive and extensive and you, and, and your tight knit team and the entire team at Your Infinite Life has put in so much effort to learn what type of trainings and education and healing work you can bring in to be able to do exactly what you said. And I just know that that has to have taken so much. So thank you. Thank you for leading the way being an organization that it shows us that goes first. Right? I know there’s, there’s stumbling blocks and there’s, you know, parts of it. That is like, what, how do we do this? What are we doing? How’s it going to look, but being on the other side of it, it’s just, you know, it’s quite the honor to be part of it and everything from inclusion and equity and dismantling white supremacy and the book studies you’ve been hosting and the trainers that you have come in, you’ve specifically taken some of your staff and raise them up and train them in really exceptional trainings.
It’s just been awesome. So thank you, Pam. And I love, I love being part of it. And so, yes. Okay. And so that’s why I love that you call yourself now, you’re the chief responsibility officer, because as the president and, and really leader of this organization, that’s, I love that. Hopefully we’ll see that term being used more often now the CRO like it Terry.
Pam:
Well. And I think, you know, since we’re talking about parenting, that’s really what we are as parents, you know, we hold the responsibility and we’re teaching others to be responsible for their values and it, you know, and share power.
Wendy:
Yes.
Pam:
That’s, you know, create a power sharing rather than a power over.
Wendy:
Ah, so good. So yeah. Yeah. As we tuned on this morning, I was like, gosh, we get to see each other again, we were just on a call last night, doing our, our book study of a book called your grandmother’s hands, which has just been just so eye-opening and amazing to do as a group, to be a part of just contribute in any factor to, to dismantling white supremacy, right? It’s just such an honor and such fascinating co-work so, okay. Well today though, we are talking about blame and families. If you love what we talk about today, if you’re digging it, whether you’re on a walk or a jog, or you’re doing the dishes or doing the laundry while you’re listening to us or maybe driving to work or home, and you love this conversation, like Terry said, remember, Pam has been on our show many times because she is such a dear friend and mentor of Terry and mine.
So episode 4, episode 11 and episode 99. And we think there may be one more, but we couldn’t find it. But we have talked before about how to influence others with true dignity. And in a way that’s effective, we’ve talked about triggers. Like why do our kids trigger us so bad or spouses or parents? And we’ve also talked with Pam about how to be, self-reliant how to not rely on the external or outside factors in your life to create, change or create the life that you want. But we are talking today about blame. And I love this subject matter because this is, as I said, one of these integral parts of the Freedom to Be weekend.
And it is something that I know completely changed my life. I’ll never forget the first time I took part in these exercises and started to understand what we’re going to talk about today. So we’re just really excited for you listeners to be part of this conversation. So kick us off Pam with a little bit about like, when, when we’re talking about blame, can we just set the stage? Like, okay, obviously we all know what blame means, but how does blame show up in our, like what does it look like? So we’ve, we’ve got parenting, we’ve got career, we’ve got marriages, we’ve got the work space. Like, what is blame? How does it show up?
Terry:
Do you mind if I jump in please?
Wendy:
Please do.
Terry:
Cause I know we’re often like, you know, we’re getting to the root of a lot of things, but I think, you know, some listeners, we might just want to say like, let’s look at it from the other angle or let’s look at it from, you know, the, the bird’s eye view here is at the end of all this, what, what do you want? It’s like you, you mentioned a couple of things there it’s like creating the life that you want, having better relationships feeling like you’re, you’re, you’re cleaning up relationships or stepping forward and not just living in maybe patterns that have been happening forever or, or things that you just kind of bite your tongue on or kind of, or continually just kind of feel stuck on.
It’s like, we want a life for ourselves and for, you know, all the listeners that just feels much more, I just taking the weight off your shoulders, just taking the weight off of these relationships. So while we’re jumping right into, you know, things like blame complaining, things like that, it’s it’s for a purpose. So, you know, you might not have tuned in this morning thinking like, yeah, blame’s my thing today. I’m going to tackle it. But I would imagine that stepping forward and you know, doing something to better, the relationships around you to clean up the air, to take some weight off your shoulders and then set that example for those around you, whether they’re your, your peers or your kids or your spouse or anything like that, that’s the whole purpose I just wanted to, like, you don’t have to be, you know, have to have the word blame or complaining written on your board of like, this was the thing for today.
We just want to bring that to light because it’s going to help you do all the other things that I mentioned. That’s our, that’s our whole thing here. You know, where that’s our, that’s our guiding light. We’re just pulling at things that most people get caught up on in something you might not even know that this is a thing in your life. So keep listening.
Wendy:
And–Don’t we all want to just get what we want?
Terry:
Yeah. Well that was, yeah. We were talking about like the title of the show is like, well, tell people what they’re going to get. It’s like, you want to get what you want. Right? Like, and you want it with the least amount of drama possible. Like nobody wants more drama in their life. Like let’s, let’s– that drama bar goes down what you want, which you want goes up.
Wendy:
Yeah. It’s not bad to want things. It’s just how we present and ask for them that matters. Right, right.
Terry:
Sorry. That was my little whoop. And then yes.
Pam:
Yeah. And, and I love, love what you said, because I think it’s true that, you know, a lot of us, even that have, you know, feel like we’ve worked on ourselves, they’re like, you know, I don’t blame anymore. So I don’t need to listen to this. I do my best not to complain. So I don’t need to listen to this. But, but the reality is is that when we go for what we want, whether that be a better parent or a better team player, a better boss or a better leader, we’re going to catch ourselves blaming and are complaining and lots of other things that are in the way of that, accomplishing that.
And so these are those little, we’re going to talk about those little things today. I hope so that, as you said, Terry, those, you know, we got to catch ourselves complaining and blaming that’s our goal.
Terry:
Yeah. And, and it’s like, with anything else that we do here, it’s like, I pick, it’s funny how you say, oh, we don’t do this anymore. It’s like, you’re often like finding like, oh, I know who this episode’s for. This is for someone else. I should really. But really, if you can just say, just say, Hey, you know what? I am, I participate in all the relationships that I’m in. Right? Correct. Yes. I participated in them. What is the best way to influence all of these other people that you’re in relationship with is do it yourself, do some discovery. That’s the best way. And if you form a culture around yourself, in an environment around yourself that cleans up the blame, the complaining, and any of the other topics that we talk about, wow.
All of a sudden the people around you, they not only notice, but that just becomes, it’s not a thing in our world then, you know, it’s like, and it certainly shows the spotlight on if somebody is in your circle and they start doing that, it’s like, it becomes not the norm. You know, I dunno if anybody who’s been a part of like a circle of friends or things that like, all people want to do is complain and people just chime in, oh yeah. This and that. And the other, I mean, everybody sees it. That’s basically what the internet is now. Right? Is a bunch of people complaining. I know Terry’s gone off script.
Pam:
Well, Terry’s gone off complaining about the internet,
Terry:
The, the corners of the internet that we’re not,
Wendy:
That’s your request about the internet, Terry. Okay. Well, we’ll get to that.
Terry:
I love that one.
Wendy:
I love all of that and yeah. Like, there’s
Terry:
The internet’s good. Okay. Yeah.
Wendy:
There’s so many things we can think of. Right. But like when I think of, cause I, I get essentially DMS and complaints all day long from parents who are stressed and tired and need help and support. Right. So like some of the things I always hear that is for sure blame, and we’re going to make sure we talk in this episode about how this is normal. This is part of being a human being. Everybody blames. Like, it’s just, it’s just, if you’re you’re living life, if you’re blaming, right. We’re just gonna teach you what to do with it. How to see it, like how to receive it. And then also how to recognize when you’re doing it. But in parenting, it shows up as like, you know, if you’re talking to your child, like you’re aggressive or you’re disrespectful, or you’re always talking back or I’ll hear parents say something like my kids sucks, the air out of a room or adds so much drama to the day.
My kid never listens. Like with marriage, I feel like it shows a lot up in like you never dot, dot dot, or you always dot, dot, dot, or you’re not willing to see things in a different way or you’re combative. Right? Like a lot of, even in career, we’ll talk about a boss and we’ll say like, they micromanage, like that’s a common one right in the workforce. Or maybe with people we love or friends, it’s like, you never speak up.
Pam:
Good point. So everything you’re saying, I think what I want to say about him before you continue is that we often will say that we don’t realize that it’s actually a complaint or a way of blaming. And we, and then we also think we’re asking for something. When we say that, when we say you’re aggressive, we think we’re asking for them to change their behavior. We are not. We think we’re setting a boundary. We are not, we’re just registering a complaint.
Well, Hey there families, I have a free online parenting workshop that I want to invite you to. It’s called what to do when your kids say, no, I won’t, and you can’t make me! These classic power struggles situations can trigger us and cause us to dip down into reactive modes. That cause us to be shameful and guilty at the end of the night, when we lay our head on our pillow and none of us want that, but don’t fret. I’m here to help. I can teach you five positive parenting tips to help gain cooperation and dissolve power struggles with integrity. So you can take a break from relying on fear, force, bribery, and rewards to get your kids to comply.
You can save your seat now over at freshstartfamilyonline.com/powerstrugglesclass. Again, this workshop is completely free. I’m going to cover things like how to gently guide your kids towards action, even when they don’t want to move or do. What’s asked of them ways to see kids who pushed back a lot as incredible blessings and future leaders. I promise you they’re blessings, not curses. Also, I’ll teach you about the importance of paradigm shifting with thoughts and beliefs about power seeking misbehavior, as well as how to implement a pause button to ignite creativity and model self-control in your parenting walk.
I cannot wait to support you in this free class, head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/powertrugglesclass to save your seat now. And I will see you at class.
Wendy:
And a lot of times it comes across as venting instead of like telling someone how you feel or doing it in a healthy way, which we’re going to empower you with ways to do that today. But tell us the difference. Cause I remember just being like my mind was blown when you taught me about like how venting is never– I remember your face, your face gets serious sometimes– Venting is never good.
And someone like challenged you, we were in some big training weekend, you know? And someone was like, yeah, but sometimes you just need to like, you know, let it off your chest. And you were like, uhn uh. Hmm mmm. No. Venting is never good. And so of course, you know, we were like, well, what do you do when you need to talk to somebody and you need to get it off your chest, you can’t push it down. Of course we had this beautiful conversation, but tell us about the difference between like venting and doing, you know, doing it in a healthy way.
Pam:
Well, I think the important thing to understand is that first off I get that intention of you feel like you need to get it off your chest. And so you start talking about it, but what you don’t realize when you start venting is that you’re actually fueling it. So if you’ve noticed, when people start venting, they, they fuel like they, you get revved up because it, because you’re just validating and talking more and more and then adding feelings to it and more stress on your body and your psyche. So, so that’s why venting is the problem, not the intention of wanting to get it off your chest.
It’s the way that you’re going about it. And so if you, if you really, you know, just slow down a little bit and say, okay, I want to get this off my chest. Well, then that, that means that you need to go to somebody if you want to do it with or with yourself. And the alternative is to start off with ‘I need help with a solution around how to feel differently about the situation’. So then you’ve set the tone and you talk about the situation, not like tell the story over and over again and fueled the story.
Does that make sense?
Wendy:
Yup. Yeah. Whether you talk to someone else or you talk to yourself or God sometimes, right. If you’re journaling and you’re like, man, they need help with this. Or I’ve always, I’ve always thought. And I tell them, I tell my students this, let me know your thoughts on this. But like, if you are sharing with someone from a perspective of how you feel like not, I feel like, right, like again, you’ve taught me great. You say, I feel like you’re not feeling, but if you’re like, I feel scared that they’re judging me or I feel scared that, you know, they’re going to pull back pay rates or I feel hurt that she continuously doesn’t listen or doesn’t show up to events or whatever. Or like with kids, I feel angry when she hits her brother. Like if you’re adding words, if you’re adding you’re feeling, when you’re sharing with someone, doesn’t it, bring it down a little bit and not fuel it.
Pam:
Yes, it does. You know, like that’s the beginning of it. It, there is a little, you know, I offer caution after that because if you’re with somebody who’s doing that and even just to be aware for yourself, is that a lot of times, you know, like how you just said a short two sentence, I feel, you know, when this happens, if you stop there, then you can rest in the feeling and then work with it. But if you keep going and start, you know, talking more about the story, then you’re going to be fueling that.
Wendy:
Yes. Okay. Makes so much sense. Okay. Well talk to us about how complaints are not a way to ask for what you want or set a boundary because I love it. Like we’re all about setting the boundary, right? Like we are about, I should’ve worn my, like my sweatshirt I had on yesterday, babe. I had my give a damn t-shirt on, but my sweatshirt yesterday was do no harm, but take no shit Terry gave me on mother’s day, I love it. It’s my favorite. I get stopped everywhere. I’m like, this is basically what we do, right? Like whether it’s your life or Fresh Start Family, like, we’re all about like firm boundaries, right? People have such a mistaken belief that positive parenting is like permissive or if you’re like, you know, peace and love.
If you’re working on yourself and learning to like shed limiting beliefs, like peace and love. Yeah. And like, if you know us, you know, we’re going to set some boundaries, but talk to us about how complaints are not a way to set a firm boundary or get what you want, ask for what you want.
Pam:
Well, I think that, you know, your example of complaints in the beginning were great because you gave them an every area. But if you think about if you’re just stating the problems, so, so that’s really, you know how you want to see a complaint you’re too aggressive. You’re being disrespectful. That’s registering the complaint. It doesn’t in any way, shape or form say out loud. I would like for you to behave this way in the example of disrespect, it’s implied, but it’s not stated. And I think the, the important thing here is that an, an implication means, you know, like if I’m implying something rather than actually stating it what’s going to happen is my likelihood of actually getting that on a consistent basis is gone down considerably.
And the same with, you know, the boundary, it’s really not going to happen. And I’m going to have to continue to share the complaint as opposed to, if I say, how about instead of doing it this way, you know, saying it this way, will you just ask me for what you want?
Wendy:
Right. You
Pam:
Know, like let’s say that it, and then, and then you get agreement.
Wendy:
Yeah. Cause we’re really good at knowing what we don’t want. Right? Like this type of training that you specialize in and we do in the Freedom to Be weekend. Like we practice the muscle of seeing things on the flip side, right? Like, so in parenting, for example, we’re really good at knowing that we don’t want our kids to hit. We don’t want them to roll their eyes. We don’t want them to fricking like, be all over the place at the dinner table. We don’t want them to resist getting in the car. We don’t want them to resist going to bed. But when like we stop and, or like, you know, we’re really good at what we telling them No. But when you stop and think like, what do I really want them to do? It actually is like a major brain. Like it’s just a practice. It’s just a practice of seeing and slowing down.
But in, in society, in the world, it’s, it’s easy. It’s not easy. I must be culturally conditioned in us to like put up this like stop sign.
Terry:
So I think, yeah, here’s where the practice comes in for everybody listening. It’s like the point of, cause it’s usually going to enter your brain first, unless you’re somebody that’s like brain where it’s come out of your mouth instantly. So, you know, when you, when you hear that complaint in your head, it’s like complaining as a way to begin to figure out what you do want. So the moment you start to feel that complaint into your brain, this is where I, you know, I think the practice actually happens if you’re like, oh, okay, all right, hold on a second. I’ve got a complaint, but what am I going to do with it? And that, you know, it, it seems that the very next thing you want to, to, to say to yourself or ask yourself is what do you want?
So that we don’t just go into this age old, you know, examples that you’re talking about of like, don’t do this, don’t do this. You always do this. You never do this.
Pam:
Exactly. I think that that’s the most important phase, right? The awareness phase is that, oh, I’m complaining. And then from there, you know, whether it’s in your head or out loud, and from there, the complaint actually is going to show you, or the don’t want is going to show you what you want. You know? So, but you, but as Terry said, you have to ask yourself, what is it that I want?
Wendy:
Yeah.
Pam:
And then that’s what you state.
Wendy:
Yep. Because there is a request in every complaint. So, so like just like some fun hot button or what’s it called? Popcorn, popcorn. So like, you don’t speak up would be like, Hey, I’d love it. I’d love it. If you, if you share your viewpoints or if you speak up in the moment or like,
Pam:
Yeah, or I want you to.
Wendy:
Yeah. Or you’re aggressive,
Terry:
I would love it. If you pet the dog like this, we’ve got a, we’ve got an inside joke on this.
Wendy:
Oh, I learned a new, funny term other day. One of my become a parenting coach girls taught me this. Cause I was like, man, Stella at 15 still takes the dogs, faces and rubs them really rough. And I’m just like, it’s always been like that since she was really little, she was like the kid that shook the baby and shook the dog and all the things. And someone said, it’s from Minions. I think it’s like cuteness aggression. And it’s the reason why we say things like, oh my gosh, I just want to eat those legs. When we see a baby that has super chunky legs, cuteness aggression. Have you ever heard that?
Terry:
So I love your cuteness aggression, but right now I would really like you just to pet the dog, like,
Pam:
Well, I want to, I want to grab onto a nuance that I, I can hear like the progression of, I would love for you to blank. I just want people to know that that’s also not clear really asking for what you want. It is saying that you would love if they did it. It’s not really saying will you.
Terry:
Right. Cause I think ultimately you need somebody to like say that they are going to buy in and yes, I’m going to do it. Otherwise. You’re just kind of like putting a statement out into the universe. It’s like, it’s like, and then what? Because you’re not asking them.
Pam:
Exactly.
Terry:
Just boom.
Pam:
Yeah. And if you say, I would love you to, I would love if, or I want you to, you want to make sure you follow it up with, will you yeah. You know, like get, get agreement from the other person.
Wendy:
Well, and I know everyone listening has got a lot of questions on the parenting front and trust me, we will help you at Freedom to Be. And the foundations course and at the bonfire with this, because of course people are like imagining talking to their four year old. I would, I, I want you to pet the dog gently and I’m here to tell you that it will work way better, but then like pet the dog. And I can just see parents right now thinking, oh hell no, my kid’s going to be like, you know, no.
Pam:
Well, yeah.
Wendy:
But the, the thing is you will come across differently. If you begin to make a habit out of speaking to people, especially your children like that. Right. Like we teach the “I” statement is like so, so powerful. And it really does change the way people. And whether it’s, you know, I love this, this idea of like really being clear right now. Like I would love you to, but I want you to. And what was it last night on our call or book club? I guess it’s a little bit of that still being a little less clear, but–
Pam:
Have you ever looked at it from this perspective?
Wendy:
Have you ever? Yeah, I remember like I was, you know, my complaint was like, Hey, sometimes I go home to Maryland and there are clearly racist people or people who say racist things. And I know I’m going to come across them. And like we were talking about how to address that and the idea of saying, would you be willing to see this in a different way? Or have you ever thought about this from this perspective? It was an entry point for me, at least, you know, to start like, instead of just going home and talking about that person behind their back, you know, it’s like an entry point to start to bring up the conversation of asking for what I want and clearly stating what’s important to us.
Pam:
Yeah. You know, I, I think too that, you know, I want to acknowledge that complaining is while it gets a bad rap, it is something that, you know, is done a lot. And, and one of the reasons for minimizing it more is when you think about any time you’ve complained, especially parents complaining to a little kid or a younger child, or even a teen, is that your results are never what you want even to a spouse. When you complain the results are always that the other person will be defensive. It is very rare that you register a complaint and somebody says, thank you.
Wendy:
Yeah, no last Pam they’ve come out of Freedom to Be with us.
Pam:
That’s true. That’s true. But not everybody has taken that yet. So until then, you know, the thing that you want to recognize is that that’s one of the reasons why we’re saying that is because when you’ve complained, even though you’re right in your complaint, you’re only going to get defensiveness from it. Not what you want.
Wendy:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and there’s always like, there’s always just a different perspective. And I mean, when it comes up with the term aggression, like I always love to give the personal examples. Like that’s been such a huge one and again, we get really deeper into this and Freedom to Be, but I mean, it’s been so beautiful to have me become aware. So I, I spent years saying that my daughter was aggressive and then like, as she got older, especially well, Freedom to Be helped me to see where I was actually having massive aggressive tendencies and to be able to love myself and not judge myself about it, but instead create positive change.
But then as she got older and she became so well mentored and like peaceful conflict resolution and all the things like she would just start to say back to me, like if we had a night where I was like, you know, you’re agress-, like sometimes you get aggressive. And she would just turn right back to me and be like, okay, well sometimes you get aggressive and it just has become so amazing to be able to receive that. So let’s, let’s switch it and talk a little bit about the receiving end, because maybe that’s where I was going with that is this work Freedom to Be what we’re talking about that exercising, this muscle will get you to a place that like, when Stella said that about me, I was, I really am at this point, thankful that she points stuff out.
Right. Like I remember another term of like where aggressiveness shows up is the family will sometimes like, make fun of me if like, I feel like I’ve gotten a lot better, but phone calls with like, I don’t know, ATT or, you know, the electric company or something like sometimes I have aggressive tendencies that come out more so in the past, because I’ve really worked on it, but it’s like been beautiful to have people bring it to my attention, so I’m then aware, right. So then I can do something to change it, but it’s just the concept of, you know, starting to be starting to play around with the idea. Cause again, you’re, you’re going to really understand how to do it at Freedom to Be, but the idea that when someone complains against you, then it’s just a request.
It’s not like some hurtful they’re meaning to like hurt you and talk to us about that.
Pam:
Okay. I think of Marianne Williamson’s quote that goes along with this, she has a quote that says all is either love or a call for love and the same with a complaint. There’s a request in every complaint. So in your example of aggressiveness, you know, usually aggression is a child, acting aggressively is complaining about something. You know, they want something. And so both people have a request. Your complaint has a request in their complaint, has a request. And so if you begin the practice of just asking, you know, starting off learning how to ask, what is it that you want right now, I get that you don’t want to go to bed, but what do you want?
And get curious and have conversations around that. There’s just so much richness in there.
Question families. Would you love to be able to set strong limits with your kiddos and stick to those strong limits and boundaries with firmness and kindness and effectiveness? Heck yes. I know we all want that in our parenting lives. And I also know that it can be tricky at times to find that middle ground between too from and too kind, that’s why I’ve created an affordable, very easy to finish program called the Firm and Kind Parenting Blueprint that will teach you a magical four step process that you can use to set strong boundaries and then actually follow through with consistency and do it in a way where you are not relying on threats and intimidation or bribery and rewards. So you can find out more information over at firmandkindparentingblueprint.com. I cannot wait to support you inside of this program.
Wendy:
That is literally the mic drop of the quote of the episode. Oh my gosh. We just need to slow down, explore that again. So say your kid’s like, this is so cool. So your kids let’s just use the bedtime example. They’re pushing back. No, I don’t want to go to bed. It’s unfair. I’m not tired. Okay. Well let’s sit down. Let’s slow down.
Okay. I can hear, I can see that you don’t want to go to bed. What is it that you really want? And I can just see that opening up a conversation of like, oh, I’m just wanting to play longer. I love playing and I’m not tired and I want to read books and I want to like, and your heart would be so softened as a parent. If they’re like, I just want to spend more time with you or whatever it may be that may come out that…
Pam:
Yeah. And a parent may be saying, I just want some time alone. You know, like that’s what they’re thinking. Like it’s the end of the night. I want my time. And, and I think that there’s so much breathing space that can occur in the moment that we all tell ourselves the truth to ourselves about what we want. So in the moment that I can tell myself or even say out loud, you know, I need some time alone and quiet time for myself and your child says, I need, you know, a few more, I need more time with you then negotiating then something, you know, agreement can come.
And I’m not saying I’m, I’m acting as if you know, it’s all gonna be great all the time. I’m not implying that I raised three kids myself. I know, I know how challenging that can be. But what I also know is that I feel more powerful and, and in charge of myself and my, my way of my sense of being, and they do too, when I start behaving this way, rather than just throwing up my hands and complaining
Wendy:
Well, when people are able to listen to you and hear you so much more, right, and you can start to use that word ‘and’ that I think becomes such a fluent language. Once you really entrenched yourself in this type of work is like, I can see that it’s happening for you. AND let me tell you what’s happening for me, what I want. I can see the, you want that? And I want this and that’s where peaceful conflict resolution comes in. Right? Like I feel this and I want this, like, how are we going to make this work? So that’s so beautiful. Talk to us, Pam about like, let’s move into like just the workforce a little bit. Right? So we talking about parenting and marriage. And what we know is that the work we do here at Fresh Start Family and at Your Infinite Life, it’s all intermingled, but it’s like what you learn and create positive change with your parenting or is going to help with your marriage.
And that’s going to help with your career. Like we hear all the time, how it’s all the same, right? Like it all, it’s just human relationship work. But talk to us about people who are listening and they have workforce. Like, I know I can’t wait to hear you talk about this. Cause I know you in the past have hated the word, constructive feedback,
Pam:
Constructive criticism.
Wendy:
Oh. Constructive criticism.
Pam:
There’s nothing. I mean, it’s still criticism by the way. That’s my thing. Right? Like, let’s call it what it is.
Wendy:
Yes. But like say we have a boss that like continues to like, you know, say things or have these comments and emails or behaves in a certain way where they’re telling you what they don’t want or having these type of things. Just like, you know, looking at it from the angle of like remembering that that complaints are just a request, like maybe some inspiration on that front because man in the workforce, it can, it can get like heated, you know? And it’s just, you can start to feel that story really easily of like, oh my gosh, they’re so annoyed. They don’t get anything. They, they are like, they don’t even know this and you just bop bop, bop, bop, bop.
And then all of a sudden you have been venting.
Pam:
Yeah. I think that the first I’ll address is if someone, if you are being complained to, you know, like your boss is complaining about something you did or didn’t do and, or the way you did did it. The, the thing about that is that I always, I always refer to inside myself, the Don Miguel Ruiz book, you know, The Four Agreements don’t take anything personally. And I don’t mean that as a push-off to what they’re saying, but as a way to expand my ability to listen differently. So if I can listen to someone complaining to me for, I wonder what they want.
I’m wonder what they’re asking for. So if I start listening from that perspective, then at some point I can ask that question, okay, I get what you’re upset about. Now tell me what you want. It can be that simple.
Wendy:
Yeah. And, and sometimes it turns into like, what you want is stupid, is wrong.
Pam:
So
Wendy:
Explore this and Freedom to Be right. I mean, I’m just like playing devil’s advocate. Cause I know people let’s is just like the next level, right? Like in this happens in parenting too. But like what you’re asking for am already freaking giving it to you and B it’s stupid, it’s dumb. It’s unrealistic. Then it becomes a different thing. Right. Then it’s like, okay, well I at least know what they’re asking for, but now it’s like to the point of where I am, I gotta work on my tone. And I got to look at where I’m judging.
Pam:
Right.
Wendy:
And blaming myself for my unhappiness. Because if I’m unable to settle and accept that you want things a different way than I got to work on where I’m blaming you for my inability to be okay with this expectation or something like that.
Pam:
Yeah. They might want to listen to the influencing skills podcast
Wendy:
Right.
Terry:
I’m putting myself in like some of these situations. And I think like your mind goes to like, like if you start to feel this energy or like complaint coming your way, I totally hear you pay. I’m like the evolved, like the place where you want to get to is that very neutral place where you’re like, I wonder what they’re asking me for. I’d like to ask them for that. I think the things that would get in your way are this like just reaction to feel like I’m going to be, I need to get into debate mode. I need to defend myself. And if I don’t do that, I’m a pushover. Haven’t represented myself. Well, I need to do this in this moment.
Not like put this off to like, calm down, think about it and come back to it. I think there’s, there’s all these things, this like opposing thoughts that make people feel like they need to like throw up that guard like right away and defense. Yeah. Because I think people in general, they think they’re right. You know, they think they’re doing something for a reason. And so when somebody comes with a different thought, you know, it’s like this, well, I better jump into defend or else they won’t understand me or they’ll just think that they’re right. And so, I mean, how do we combat that in the moment?
Or how do we, like, I mean, maybe it’s like the front part of this discussion is, is like maybe just that feeling in itself to want to debate is a little flag saying like, Hey, just skip over all that drama and just get to the part where you want to ask, you know, what would you like from me?
Pam:
I think I you’re so right on, I do think that the place to begin is the recognition that, oh man, I’m defensive about what they’re saying. You know, because in that moment, you know that what, however, you’re going to respond, it’s going to be coming from that place of defensiveness. And is that really how you want to come across? You know, like sometimes you will make that choice, but it feels better to make it from a choice as opposed to, you know, from a have to, I have to defend myself, you know, then you’re fighting for, for it.
If that makes sense. I do think that recognizing, and, you know, we don’t just get defensive in our head. You know, our bodies feel a certain way, too. That’s a place we often ignore. And then we end up reacting from that body sensation. So it’s really important to start paying attention to that as well.
Wendy:
And then that moves into the recognition that the knee jerk reaction of justifying and defensiveness is a closed behavior, right. Or protective or closed or whatever, which is another huge, you know, learning that we do in the Freedom to Be weekend. I mean that, that in itself learning and identifying like, dang, I justify and I defend like, boom, it happens immediately. As soon as someone like, so to speak registers the complaint, like all the buttons are going off. Right. Which then as soon as you have the awareness, like you said, you’re then able to start creating a choice of like how I I’m aware that I’m triggered right now, go listen to the triggered episode.
And now I have these choices on how I’m going to respond. I can respond with a learning type of response or I can respond with like a, like that new neural pathway in my brain. That’s paved because I’ve probably been justifying and defending for many years, which brings me to one more question that I would love to end with Pam. And that’s like, cause it moves into like, when criticism comes your way, especially many of us, most of us are triggered by it before we get like we build this exercise, this muscle of seeing it as complaints. But it feels like criticism and criticism is so triggering for so many of us.
I know we’ve talked about this before, but remind me, like it’s, for those of us who like grew up in homes where you were criticized for criticism was a thing, right? Like it, it was a tool, it was like a tactic, right? Like any, any time it’s like kind of the old school paradigm or like the shame, humiliation, fear force pain criticism is going to inspire this child to do better tomorrow. Like if I’m hard on them, then they will do better tomorrow. Like it’s the way many of us, like we either grew up like point blank like that. Or we had a lot of elements of it. Right. And it, it doesn’t, it only takes a few times for a child to realize like, oh, criticism sucks.
And so I know you’ve spoken to me before about how like criticism and perfectionism are related and how that’s all related to like our inability to stare or before we are in a program, like Freedom to Be, to see mistakes as simply opportunities to learn that they don’t make us less than maybe just talk to us a little bit about the criticism component and how perfectionism can come into there and just how that criticism can be so triggering when it’s registered as a complaint.
Pam:
Yeah. I think they all tie in, as you’re talking, I’m thinking complaining criticism blaming in any shape or form causes us, you know, without realizing it caused us to believe that we need to be perfect because the criticism complaining, blaming ignites shame and guilt inside of us. And so when that shame and guilt hits us, then we have to, we have to combat that with perfectionism. I must get better. I’m I’m, I’m not doing enough. I have to be perfect, whatever words we’re using, that’s the goal.
And I think that in our trainings and, and I think a much more accepting goal for people is to understand that not in a dismissive way that we are human, but we are. And, and that means we’re not flawless. And since we’re not flawless, rather than we’re full of flaws, right. I said that in a, we’re not flawless, but, but we are caring full of care type people. That’s why criticism hurts. That’s why complaints don’t feel good. That’s why blaming even whether we’re blaming or being blamed, we don’t feel good afterwards.
So to normalize that, to normalize that we’re going to blame other people are going to blame. We’re going to complain other people will, but how can we turn that into an understanding from the truth of who we are as empathetic caring people?
Wendy:
Yeah.
Pam:
I just went off on a tangent.
Wendy:
Yoda, speaks again.
Terry:
I, I just think about how much criticism, like I have dealt with in my profession over so many years. And then like when things happen or things happen in the home and like we’ve done exercises that have all started in the classroom with Your Infinite Life, you know, coursework that all goes back to this one thing for me when I was four years old, right. It’s something everybody’s going to have their own like personal experience when they go through one of these courses. And I encourage everybody to look into it and take that step. But for me, it is so valuable just to discover that like it started when I was four, I, you know, I had a single moment.
And then the way that plays out in my life is still still there, but just recognizing it and just that on its own is so helpful for me to not then go into the byproducts of all of that. The, the, the shame and the guilt and everything like that. Not always, sometimes, sometimes I’m already down that road a little bit, but at least I can kind of pull myself back out or see it for what it is.
Pam:
Well, that’s the whole point, right. But again, we may find ourselves down the road of complaining, but we can always stop and give ourselves some breathing space.
Wendy:
Yeah. As long as you have the awareness, like the whole thing is just about creating the awareness. Like, So you, you learn these tools, you learn how to see it, what’s happening, understand it. And then sometimes you’re going to be able to pull yourself out. Sometimes you need to call a mentor. Sometimes you need to do X, Y, and Z go for a surf, whatever, give your time to self time. But once you have the tools, you do become at choice. And it just is such a good feeling to be able to know. And of course, you know, Your Infinite Life just helps so tremendously with the, with the self-acceptance piece, like you become aware that you do this, that you’re, you have these neural-pathways that are well-trained in your brain and you jumped like you have these knee jerk reactions, but then to not judge yourself and to not go down that guilt and shame spiral is such an important part of it.
Like you can’t just have the awareness of like, oh, I do that all the time. I get triggered. And I go to this spot. It’s like, well, you also have to have the awareness of like, and it makes total sense. You know, I am a human, I’m not flawless and make sense this conditioning. And this is the thoughts that I pulled in from a young age. And that has happened to have been on repeat. So I just love that choice aspect for someone who’s such a strong-willed person. If I feel like I have to do things a certain way, I am angry. But if you’re like, you have a choice spending, you can do it this way, or you can do it that way. But if I feel like I have to do it a certain way, look out grouchies are coming out.
Grouchies. What an amaz–, anything else you want to add T or.
Terry:
No? That’s awesome. I mean, Pam’s going to keep coming back. So I think this was, this was a great one.
Wendy:
What;s the SNL thing called when you get like, above a certain, isn’t there a name for it, but like
Pam:
The Ellen show did that too. Like they had, they had this contest of who was on her show the most. So yeah.
Wendy:
One of my biggest regrets when I leave this earth one day is that we never got you on the Ellen show or me on the Ellen show. You should have been on there. We should have been on there, but it’s all good. Yeah. Well, we’re going to create an award for the most, the most on the show guest. And we’ll let you know when we haven’t created them.
Terry:
Well, yeah. I was thinking like a physical, like trophy or something like that, but you know, virtual world, it might be tough. Maybe it’s an NFT that someone holds and then they, they hold it unless somebody surpasses them.
Wendy:
Oh, an NFT. Wow. That’s a whole, whole new world.
Terry:
The internet. Okay. Love you listeners,
Wendy:
Thank you, Pam so much for everything. So just to wrap this up, you guys, Pam and I are teaching Freedom to Be together this fall. We have an online course that we do every fall together, October 15th and 22nd are the dates it had to freshstartfamilyonline.com/freedomcourse to learn more and get registered. This is a class that has very limited seats. You guys, and they pretty much sell out every time. Last, last year, we had 19 students from all over the world, join us and we do two Saturdays. I know it seems like a very long zoom, but it time flies when you’re having fun, because it goes by like that, we make sure we take tons of breaks.
And then we also offer Freedom to Be in person here in San Diego, in the spring, a beautiful ocean front venue. That’s just gorgeous. And that’s really great. And then on top of that, make sure you go check out Your Infinite Life because they also offer a lots of additional trainings in addition to Freedom to Be. So the Remembrance Course is now called something else. Discover
Pam:
Magnificence,
Wendy:
Discover Magnificence. And are you starting to teach those in person again?
Pam:
We’re going to start in person. There is one in San Diego. Well, there’s there, it’s on the website, but we have three San Diego, Tallahassee and St. Louis in the fall.
Wendy:
Oh my goodness. So good. So those, those two courses together Discover Magnificence and Freedom to Be is really what we recommend. Every human on the planet goes through because they’re very complimentary. Terry and I have been through both of them and, you know, gone and gone back and refresh ourselves and being a part of those courses time and time again. I mean, I think I was in Freedom to Be when I count it it’s like six, maybe 18 times I was in Freedom to Be once as a student and then came back every single time just to soak up the, the goodness and Terry, you probably did Discovering Magnificence, like gosh, to at least 10 times, maybe seven, 10 times.
So these are courses that will just bless your life tremendously and just change everything for you guys. So go check out Your Infinite Life. Make sure you join us for either the fall Freedom to Be course or the spring in person Freedom to Be course. Like I said, fall is online. So wherever you are in the world, you can join us two Saturdays. And then in the spring, it’s one full weekend. So Pam, thank you for being here. We love you so much.
Pam:
You’re welcome. You’re welcome. Thanks for having me.
Hey families, before we say goodbye for the day, quick question, do you follow me yet on Instagram? If you don’t, will you come find me? I am @freshstartwendy and I like to hang out there a lot and it’s a great place to interact with me. Send me a DM after you push follow, say hello. I do lots of lives. I post lots of IG TVs and I would love to connect with you over there. So come find me. For links and more info about everything we talked about in today’s episode, head to freshstartfamilyonline.com/135.
Stella:
For more information, go to freshstartfamilyonline.com. Thanks for listening, families. Have a great day!
